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Cowman_133

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@Trey: You do need to take into account that buyables like smithing lose money (@~250k xp/h) while mining (should) make money (@~100k xp/h). If you balance the money right, the lower xp rate doesn't hurt. But I agree that xp rates need to be roughly equivalent.

 

Hedge is talking about saturation of the market. There are so many items around (much more than we need) that it will take a long time for, say, runite armour to be worth a lot more than the alch price. Alching is the only thing holding up most of these items anyway. If alching stops being profitable, the items will barely leave the game (so you'll get a lot of runite items at alch price + 1k or something).

 

I think that if there was some sort of D&D that would allow us to supply our god emissary with a number of armour sets based on the number of sets in the game, we could solve the saturation. E.g. there's 10m addy plates right now, the emissary wants 200 plates. If there's 500k plates at some point, the emissary will only want 10.

 

Maybe I'm not understanding but who cares if there is a huge saturation of runite items? Or adamant items? When the smithing tables get reworked the alch prices would be reworked along side them. If a rune platebody had an alch price tomorrow of 8k, the g.e price would fall down to ~7.5k to make it worth alching. That's how this free market works.

 

I also don't agree with the idea of gathering skills needing to be super profitable. This game has ALWAYS favored combat based money making methods. That being said, wouldn't the rework would make the skills more profitable then they are now? Jagex has stated that they're adding new trees to the game so it isn't crazy to assume that new ores and fish could make their way into the game.

 

Edit: To address your point more on xp for gather vs. production.

 

Mining adamant is maybe 20-30k xp/hr but making adamant plates is over 250k/hr

Fishing rocktails is 40-85k xp/hr but cooking them is 350k+xp/hr

Cutting magic logs is maybe 30-50k xp/hr and fletching but fletching them into longbows (u) its 220-250k/hr

 

Most people don't train with the intention of making money, but if they want to make money, there are options. Most people cut ivy to 99 wc, fish leaping fish/ c2 for 99 fish, and mine concentrated gold for 99 mining. You can't complain about not making money mining gold, when no one (including you) smith gold for xp.

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I think that if there was some sort of D&D that would allow us to supply our god emissary with a number of armour sets based on the number of sets in the game, we could solve the saturation. E.g. there's 10m addy plates right now, the emissary wants 200 plates. If there's 500k plates at some point, the emissary will only want 10.

 

No pressure on these World Events coming in RS3.. cough-hint-cough-hint-cough.

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Quest Cape | 99 Defence Achieved 11-Jul-2011 17:41 | 99 Prayer 11-Jul-2012 | 99 Constitution 02-Aug-2012

99 Attack 31/10/2012 | 99 Dungeoneering 31/10/2012 | 99 Strength 31/10/2012 | 99 Magic 2/12/2012

99 Range 16/12/2012 | 99 Herblore 25/12/2012 | 99 Summoning 4/1/2013 | 99 Firemaking 6/3/2013

99 Farming 10/4/2013 | 99 Slayer 11/7/2013 | 99 Fletching 21/8/2013  |  99 Smithing 22/8/2013 

99 Crafting 19/12/2013  |  99 Cooking 15/1/2014  |  99 Agility 25/1/2014  |  99 Thieving 01/02/2014

99 Construction 21/04/2014  |  99 Woodcutting 04/03/2014  |  99 Fishing 17/04/2014  |  99 Mining 23/07/2015

99 Divination 27/07/2015  |  99 Runecrafting 20/08/2015  |  99 Hunter 20/08/2015  | Maxed 20/08/2015

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@Trey: The current price change is a function of the current input & output, and the current price is the sum of all changes, a function of the sum of all inputs & outputs, which is the total amount.

 

So basically, if you rework the system to reduce the number of items entering the game by a factor ten, you're going to change the price (it'll go up) but only until it's too expensive to alch. I'd rather see items at 2x alch price because that'd at least allow variation up and down, instead of just being stuck.

 

The game has always (well, for a long time now) favoured combat based money making methods, but that's no reason not to introduce skilling methods. At least 1m/h, if not 2m/h, should be possible, with level 90+ stats.

Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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Quyneax:

 

I edited part of my last post if you wanna check out what I added.

 

The rework would most likely come with new ores. So while mining runite is less profitable, who cares? There will be new ores for them to mine for higher profit. Or maybe ores will drop to 1-2k each (about 10% their current value) but you will be able to collect them at 10x the speed making the profit the same with the new ores on top of that.

 

You can't make mining/woodcutting/fishing 1/2m gp/hr for everybody. It would always be like the system we have now. You can cut ivy for 0gp/hr and get 75-95k xp/hr, or you can cut magic logs for more money per hour but less xp/hr. Whining about concentrated gold not being profitable (I'm not saying you are) is silly to me. If you're training mining there, you're doing it because you value xp>gp. Besides, and I think you've made note of this already, combat does more harm to the profitability of skilling than the smithing rework would. I get loads of rune ore drops, magic/yew log drops, and raw shark drops.

 

E: I've got dinner plans but this has been a good back and forth. Great discussion value if you ask me.

Let's see how long until the mods delete it as spam. /jokes.

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I'll clarify what I meant.

 

Ideally, a rebalance would make gear obtainable at an appropriate level. For example, you currently need 99 smithing to make a full set of level 50 armor. It should only take level 50 smithing to do that. However, you see plenty of people with level 50 stats using level 50 armor. This isn't because they have 99 smithing, or because players with 99 smithing are smithing the armor pieces (with the exception of legs). It's because of monster drops. Right now, this is fine because gear is obtainable at appropriate levels, but then the artisan skill is essentially bypassed. Armor pieces need to be removed (or at least significantly reduced) from the drop tables of monsters so that the level requirements can be rebalanced. Even if it only takes 50 smithing to make full rune, no one will make full rune because monster drops make it not worth the time.

 

This doesn't fully solve the problem, though. There are a ton of rune items in the game right now, so lower levels probably wouldn't even notice if they stopped being dropped. Maybe they'll skyrocket for a little while because of merchants, but overall they'll still remain plentiful, at least for a long time. Furthermore, they will be alched less if price increases, which would cause the price to fall again, keeping it in check.

 

In order for a rebalance to be effective, there would have to be a ton less rune items in the game.

 

Another issue is that, especially at level 90+, you have to make thousands of a given item in order to get a single item, which means that there will always be more armor in the game than can be used in actual combat. There has to be an item sink. Right now, we have high alchemy, but that's becoming less and less vogue as time goes on (it's really inefficient, and people are starting to catch on). Jagex tried with MA, but that's dead content except for trim-seekers. Maybe emissaries are the answer, but they have to be careful not to let it get to be too high-level, otherwise they might deprive those who need the items.

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Ocellus lied when he said he was busy--he was not invited by Juna because she was horrified at his experiments. (Revealed in the Book of the Order) He has gone completely insane--he has been excommunicated by the other Guardians for all intensive purposes because of how far he has deviated from Guthix's ideals. He is not "falliable", per se--he has outright fallen from grace with no possible redemption.

 

The questio

 

Sorry, but that is wrong.

 

It is "for all intents and purposes"

 

How can you have an intensive purpose?

Runescape player since 2005
Ego Sum Deus Quo Malum Caligo et Barathum


 

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As for the production vs gathering problem, there's a very simple solution.

 

There is an equilibrium between the two types of skills. The value of the xp and the value of the gp earned gathering a material is ALWAYS equal to the value of the xp and the gp earned processing it.

 

So let's say mining adamant and coal is 20k xp/hour and earns 500k gp/hour. Smithing adamant plates is 350k xp/hour (no idea if this is true), so it has to lose a lot of money to reach the equilibrium. How much it loses is based on income.

 

If both were 100k xp/hour, they'd make an equal amount of money.

 

If mining were the faster part, the gp/hour of mining would have to decrease to maintain the equilibrium.

 

To summarize, gathering resources is too slow and processing is too fast. Make them equal and they'll both be profitable.

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I also don't agree with the idea of gathering skills needing to be super profitable. This game has ALWAYS favored combat based money making methods.

Just because the game has always favored combat-based money making methods doesn't mean it should remain that way...

The game would appeal to more people if we were able to make relatively equal profits from both skilling and from combat, since the people who don't particularly enjoy combat but like skilling would be able to make a lot of money from doing what they like best.

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I also don't agree with the idea of gathering skills needing to be super profitable. This game has ALWAYS favored combat based money making methods.

Just because the game has always favored combat-based money making methods doesn't mean it should remain that way...

The game would appeal to more people if we were able to make relatively equal profits from both skilling and from combat, since the people who don't particularly enjoy combat but like skilling would be able to make a lot of money from doing what they like best.

I was always a skills>combat guy and the fact that the game was so combat focused drove me crazy. I think at one point i was 2250-2300 with 110 combat. But I learned to merch and rolled with the punches. There is also item collection and other smaller ways to make money to fill the combat void. But hey, the vast majority of players love combat so I can hold my tongue. Just look at the number of people with 99 in combat skills compared to other skills.

 

I also disagree with the idea that if you rework the tables, no one will ever make rune again. If there is a demand, people will satisfy it.

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Well yeah but there won't be a demand if there is enough runite equipment to go around for the next ten years. And in ten years, Jagex goes bankrupt, the servers break, they catch on fire, the fire spreads wildly with the northwesternlies (damn you Irish winds), GB is in ashes, the (lack of) City banks collapse the global economy, war breaks out, China and the US launch pre-emptive nuclear strikes and everybody gets roasted etc..

 

Point is, the game would respond very slowly to any changes in input rates if the reserve is much greater than the Δreserve. The point is to fix the game soonish (couple of months, a year tops) so we can all enjoy it. If we fix the game in ten years that's quite a gamble.

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Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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Usually I'm against upgrading low level shit, but an adze upgrade would be good because it's basically a quest item. I'd prefer if the new version came from a similar minigame that required an adze to unlock though. Perhaps if we added something to notify varrock if zamorakians were invading. Or similar for other factions.

 

>An item with the highest skill requirement in game (lvl 92 Firemaking) bar capes

>Low-level

 

Jesus.

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92 firemaking isn't the toughest skill requirement in the game. That's probably agile top or something - adze is pretty low level. Firemaking has ridiculous xp rates (for free!) at Char's training cave and the circus, plus cheap xp with the book of Char. Honestly, if you can get to Char's cave (91 fm) the rest is basically waiting - 10 minutes a week for 140k xp or something? Plus you're not even missing out on any content by waiting.

 

(also shows you the power creep from Char's to warbands - from weekly xp in a cheap fast skill to daily xp in a slow skill)

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Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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92 firemaking isn't the highest skill requirement in the game. That's probably agile top or something.

 

No, Adze is by far the highest skill requirement of this kind. Agil top can be boosted from around 87, Adze has a requirement that CANNOT be boosted.

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A Blog to Bathtubs for Beginners
Quest Cape | 99 Defence Achieved 11-Jul-2011 17:41 | 99 Prayer 11-Jul-2012 | 99 Constitution 02-Aug-2012

99 Attack 31/10/2012 | 99 Dungeoneering 31/10/2012 | 99 Strength 31/10/2012 | 99 Magic 2/12/2012

99 Range 16/12/2012 | 99 Herblore 25/12/2012 | 99 Summoning 4/1/2013 | 99 Firemaking 6/3/2013

99 Farming 10/4/2013 | 99 Slayer 11/7/2013 | 99 Fletching 21/8/2013  |  99 Smithing 22/8/2013 

99 Crafting 19/12/2013  |  99 Cooking 15/1/2014  |  99 Agility 25/1/2014  |  99 Thieving 01/02/2014

99 Construction 21/04/2014  |  99 Woodcutting 04/03/2014  |  99 Fishing 17/04/2014  |  99 Mining 23/07/2015

99 Divination 27/07/2015  |  99 Runecrafting 20/08/2015  |  99 Hunter 20/08/2015  | Maxed 20/08/2015

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If you continually judge "high level" content by difficulty of training or quality of the skill/structure of the skill...

 

You are going to have a circular discussion on whether or not something is "difficult" or counts as an achievement or anything else where no progress is made and it just deepens the divide of elitist hate/despising noobs even more bad time.

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The point was that adzes are low-level content. It's not about highest (I'm not saying it isn't the highest number) but about low (I'm saying it is low level). Since low is subjective (which highest is not), it can be different for various stats. And for firemaking, anything is low, even level 99. Which has as nice consequence that it doesn't matter what level you have in it - it's all useless :D.

 

I did word it wrong in my post, and I've now corrected it. Hope you can now understand my point instead of arguing technicalities ;).

Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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No, it's not. Since I just mentioned that low is subjective, you could reason out that I was stating my opinion there :P. And I do have reasons for that (mentioned a few posts up), and I'd hope some/many people would agree with me, but it's still subjective.

 

Edit: in the end it's only a temporary convention on the meanings of highest (as absolutely the highest number) versus low (as in subjective low level) to make the discussion here smoother - which seems to have failed miserably :D.

Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

99 ranged (28th November 2011) | 99 attack, 99 defence, 99 strength (11th December 2011) | 99 slayer (18th December 2011) | 99 magic (22nd December 2011) | 99 construction (16th March 2012)

99 herblore (22nd March 2012) | 99 firemaking (26th March 2012) | 99 cooking (2nd July 2012) | 99 runecrafting (12th March 2012) | 99 crafting (26th August 2012) | 99 agility (19th November 2012)

99 woodcutting (22nd November 2012) | 99 fletching (31st December 2012) | 99 thieving (3rd January 2013) | 99 hunter (11th January 2013) | 99 mining (21st January 2013) | 99 fishing (21st January 2013)

99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

Tormented demon drops: twenty effigies, nine pairs of claws, two dragon armour slices and one elite clue | Dagannoth king drops: two dragon hatchets, two elite clues, one archer ring and one warrior ring

Glacor drops: four pairs of ragefire boots, one pair of steadfast boots, six effigies, two hundred lots of Armadyl shards, three elite clues | Nex split: Torva boots | Kalphite King split: off-hand drygore mace

30/30 Shattered Heart statues completed | 16/16 Court Cases completed | 25/25 Choc Chimp Ices delivered | 500/500 Vyrewatch burned | 584/584 tasks completed | 4000/4000 chompies hunted

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It is, because both low and high are entirely subjective, which is made quite clear throughout this little offshoot of discussion.

 

But here I am engaging in the wheel-spinning, oh boy. I really need to stop doing that.

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It is, because both low and high are entirely subjective, which is made quite clear throughout this little offshoot of discussion.

 

But here I am engaging in the wheel-spinning, oh boy. I really need to stop doing that.

 

Just like everything else really, high and low-level content is relative. However most people could agree on some limits for high and low-level content (as what each one of those actually include or should include). For example, a bronze dagger would be seen as low level content by far most of the RS community, while an adze would probably be seen as high level content by the majority as well. As for everyone to see the Adze as high level content is pretty much irrelevant, and probably impossible too. Myself I would say that anything which requires 90+ in any skill is still high level content. It takes a huge lot of effort and time to reach that high even in skills like cooking, fletching, firemaking and woodcutting. Everything is relative though and I am very sure of that there are quite a few people who would say that everything below 99 is low level...:P

A bit more on topic perhaps; I really hope the BETA and NIS gets plenty of updates this month. The BETA really needs optimization now.

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Add me if you so wish: SwreeTak

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