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I find the idea of placing a hard cap at 13m XP to be absolutely ridiculous. There would be no point in playing the game once you max out.

???

 

So the only point of the game is to gain xp? Well in that case, let me point you to a relevant game. When you hit the cap there, you gain 1 xp. That way, you'll be busy for a while more.

 

Meanwhile, I'll be trying my hand at some actual gameplay.

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Supporter of Zaros | Quest Cape owner since 22 may 2010 | No skills below 99 | Total level 2595 | Completionist Cape owner since 17th June 2013 | Suggestions

99 summoning (18th June 2011, previously untrimmed) | 99 farming (14th July 2011) | 99 prayer (8th September 2011) | 99 constitution (10th September 2011) | 99 dungeoneering (15th November 2011)

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99 smithing (21st January 2013) | 120 dungeoneering (17th June 2013) | 99 divination (24th November 2013)

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I find the idea of placing a hard cap at 13m XP to be absolutely ridiculous. There would be no point in playing the game once you max out.

???

 

So the only point of the game is to gain xp? Well in that case, let me point you to a relevant game. When you hit the cap there, you gain 1 xp. That way, you'll be busy for a while more.

 

Meanwhile, I'll be trying my hand at some actual gameplay.

 

 

Thats fine, but I doubt that most of the people who are going for exp now would instead start playing more minigames just because the exp was capped. A hard cap probably would chase a lot of people away from the game. I like minigames, I played them before I maxed and I played them after, I'd still play them if the new capes came out. However, removing goals from people, or leaving them with none is a good way to lose players. 104m exp capes would be good for player retention, and players that want to play minigames will still play them.

R.I.P. The olde nite. A legend is gone but not forgotten.

 

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I find the idea of placing a hard cap at 13m XP to be absolutely ridiculous. There would be no point in playing the game once you max out.

???

 

So the only point of the game is to gain xp? Well in that case, let me point you to a relevant game. When you hit the cap there, you gain 1 xp. That way, you'll be busy for a while more.

 

Meanwhile, I'll be trying my hand at some actual gameplay.

 

Damn it... there's no way I'm going to finish my homework now >=(
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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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Gameplay is by definition limiting. No game permits everything, and no entity can allow everything; to have some sort of identity, you must exclude something. Every game has a metagame which encourages certain things, and discourages other things, through official and informal incentives, pressures, rewards, penalties and so forth. I find the current metagame to be very limiting with its constant pressure for more experience (and I am inclined to believe that eventually levels past 99 will have useful content, thus forcing us all to get them). I am no more selfish than the current cast of people who advocate for a metagame which is focused on XP.

 

No, just no. Because it is way too late. That is like me saying, I think they should take away all minigames, quests, comp cape, lore because it isn't efficient. Only worse because XP is accumulative, and those are just done once (except minigames).

I don't think you understand is completely different because you are literally erasing what I have already accomplished.

 

If for example, nobody was higher than 50M but Jagex had told us the cap was 200M, then you wanting them to lower the cap wouldn't be selfish. But seeing as tens of thousands of players are already way above suggested caps, that is selfish. It is not advocating for a different style of gameplay, that would be wanting updates away from gaining xp, not deleting all gained xp.

 

 

 

I find the idea of placing a hard cap at 13m XP to be absolutely ridiculous. There would be no point in playing the game once you max out.

???

 

So the only point of the game is to gain xp? Well in that case, let me point you to a relevant game. When you hit the cap there, you gain 1 xp. That way, you'll be busy for a while more.

 

Meanwhile, I'll be trying my hand at some actual gameplay.

 

It is not the only point of the game, but it is a big part of the game for many. And yes, if you break it down, the basics are the same as that cookie game (which I might say, I know tons of people who loved it and played it). Runescape is just more developed than that game, so there is more content and more to do. There are many more reasons than that (for example, many people who play for xp enjoy pushing themselves to try and get the fastest xp rates possible and experiment different methods) but I won't get into them all.

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I find the idea of placing a hard cap at 13m XP to be absolutely ridiculous. There would be no point in playing the game once you max out.

???

 

So the only point of the game is to gain xp? Well in that case, let me point you to a relevant game. When you hit the cap there, you gain 1 xp. That way, you'll be busy for a while more.

 

Meanwhile, I'll be trying my hand at some actual gameplay.

 

What is this actual gameplay you refer to? Almost everything we do in this game is for the single purpose of gaining better or faster XP, in one way or the other. Of course there's a few exceptions, like Castle Wars. What's the point of doing all that when you're maxed out with a hard cap of 13m XP?

 

That would leave PvMing as the end-game content pretty much, and even that is pretty damn pointless. What are you going to do with all the items and money you acquire from PvMing if you can't use it?

 

There is just zero logic behind wanting a hard cap on XP. RS is fine as it is, you can do your 'actual gameplay' all you want, meanwhile I can continue to gain XP and get higher ranks. I see no problem here.

 

EDIT: And like W aldo said above me, gaining XP is a massive part of the game, surely it can't be a good idea to pretty much eliminate that, especially with how fast skills are nowadays.


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Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only person who plays RuneScape like a game.

 

My account is over 10 years old and I'm not maxed. Not because I can't, I just don't see the point. When I train a skill, I do it because I want to unlock a new feature - not because I want to see some new numbers.

 

If I ever max, there's no way in hell I'll train a skill for the sake of training it. I simply don't see the point of it.

 

I might actually see if I can become the most inefficient player of all time.

 

Inefficiency = fun. That's objective and can't be debated. Ever.

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Stating a subjective statement on your opinion, then stating it can't be debated. That seems a little off...

I think what you mean to say is, that for you playing without worrying about gathering xp is what you find fun. See for me, it is not that way. I like to do "inefficient" stuff sometimes too, like quests or events with my clan etc. But I also really enjoy trying to be as efficient as possible with time generally speaking, and getting good xp rates as I train my skills.

I have lots of respect for you as a player that plays the game in your own way. I don't have respect for you trying to say that is the only way though.

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Inefficiency = fun. That's objective and can't be debated. Ever.

 

I'm glad you can speak for everyone in terms of what they regard as fun, and infer that the opinions of others however different to your own are incorrect. 

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Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only person who plays RuneScape like a game.

 

My account is over 10 years old and I'm not maxed. Not because I can't, I just don't see the point. When I train a skill, I do it because I want to unlock a new feature - not because I want to see some new numbers.

 

If I ever max, there's no way in hell I'll train a skill for the sake of training it. I simply don't see the point of it.

 

I might actually see if I can become the most inefficient player of all time.

 

Inefficiency = fun. That's objective and can't be debated. Ever.

 

I may have you beat as Inefficient at least currently. My account was created in 2001 and has overall lower stats then yours, but we are close.

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---------------------------- ';..;' ----------------------------


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I agree with Sylpheed that it seems that many players forget the purpose of the game - to have fun - and try to tirelessly max out just for the achievement part of it. I only have two 99s (insert laugh track here) and I didn't do either for fun. The first one I did was so people would stop laughing at my account for having no 99s and the second was a long time goal. Looking back, I'm not sure why I did that instead of, well, having fun.

 

However, I'm sure many people find training all of their stats to 99 as fun. I happen to not be one of those people.

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Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only person who plays RuneScape like a game.

 

My account is over 10 years old and I'm not maxed. Not because I can't, I just don't see the point. When I train a skill, I do it because I want to unlock a new feature - not because I want to see some new numbers.

 

If I ever max, there's no way in hell I'll train a skill for the sake of training it. I simply don't see the point of it.

 

I might actually see if I can become the most inefficient player of all time.

 

Inefficiency = fun. That's objective and can't be debated. Ever.

 

 

This man needs a medal.

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Inefficiency = fun. That's objective and can't be debated. Ever.

What.

 

I find efficiency to be fun and inefficiency not to be fun, but according to you, I'm wrong.

 

??


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[01:24:34] CJ Hunnicutt: it takes skill to be that [bleep]ing stupid

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Inefficiency = fun. That's objective and can't be debated. Ever.

 

I'm glad you can speak for everyone in terms of what they regard as fun, and infer that the opinions of others however different to your own are incorrect. 

 

medal.gif

 

Gaining xp, whether pre or post 99 in a skill, is the vast majority of what RuneScape content focuses on now (maybe it didn't before but it's pretty clear that's the direction this game has taken). It only makes sense that they add content that works well with what the game already has going for it. Also spoiler alert, some people find that doing the most efficient activities are indeed fun. Sorry if I enjoy doing Jadinko lair over burning a bunch of logs in a line or something along those lines. Since being inefficient is fun and all, I suppose I should just use incredibly outdated methods of training every skill! See you all running natures in the abyss!

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Inefficiency = fun. That's objective and can't be debated. Ever.

 

Blog to 200m in all skills.

Max cape achieved November 5th, 2011.

Completionist cape achieved December 29th, 2011.

Final Boss title achieved December 28th, 2014.

Trimmed completionist cape achieved November 7th, 2015.

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should we be going by activities that are significantly less tedious than their alternatives and are also more rewarding (for instance, you avoided a comparison between curly roots and normal bonfires, which are actually what people do instead of fire lines now)

 

or should we be talking more about things like barbarian/fly fishing over say, rocktail fishing, where processing all the crap in the former methods is technically faster exp, but doesn't grant anything beyond that, and is more work intensive

 

the assertion that efficiency is more or less fun is wrong in both directions because the subject of efficiency has no bearing on what is enjoyable

 

unfortunately, jagex has often chosen to equate having one with having the other, and tends to ration out experience on that basis, instead of just letting all of the methods at a given level grant the same degree of reward, then just let the player decide what they want to do between the large amount of activities we have now, instead of the majority of them being ignored due to clearly inferior rewards

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Well at least the pro-efficiency crowd basically admitted that this game isn't fun unless you enjoy arbitrarily watching numbers get bigger.

 

A few reminders to those of you who have played this game for years yet still can't connect the dots:

 

1. RuneScape has always placed a very high priority on skilling. This wasn't a problem until training to 99 and beyond became an obligation, not an option. This also wasn't a problem until the game had been around for so long, and XP had been given away so liberally, that it became normal and expected to max out. Additionally, if you expect any sort of skilling-related achievement to remain impressive forever, as XP becomes easier and easier to acquire, you're delusional.

 

2. Prior to GWD, PvP (be it safe or dangerous) was the alternative end-game if you weren't into skilling. But PvP is now dead and PvM is the endgame. Unfortunately, PvM is nowhere near as challenging and unpredictable as PvP. As a result, making PvM endgame instead of PvP results in much more grind and monotony.

 

 

As far as skilling goes, the damage has already been done. Offering more "incentives" to skill and grind (as if there weren't enough already) is only going to complicate and prolong the issue. It's not going to solve anything. If anything, Jagex needs to make skilling less relevant since XP is so easy to acquire and there are so many maxed players already. Additionally, PvP needs to be endgame again, or else we'll run into the same endgame problems we've been experiencing ever since GWD was released. But in order for PvP to be endgame, that would require another massive overhaul to the combat system and a removal of EoC.

 

So the way I see it is-- neither of those things are going to be happening any time soon (if ever). So as a result, things are just going to keep getting a lot worse until either it's too late or Jagex and the players come back to reality.

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@W aldo 



No, just no. Because it is way too late. That is like me saying, I think they should take away all minigames, quests, comp cape, lore because it isn't efficient. Only worse because XP is accumulative, and those are just done once (except minigames).

 

 

 

No. It's never too late to change things. You're forgetting that RS existed for several years before skill capes were released, almost 10 before Comp and Max capes were released, and before the experience craze set in. The metagame can be changed at any time, and it must change, it's never too late.
 

  I don't think you understand is completely different because you are literally erasing what I have already accomplished.

 

I have already offered plenty of examples to the contrary, where thanks to the experience craze, tens of thousands of players have seen various accomplishments of theirs devalued. This is nothing new.

 

If for example, nobody was higher than 50M but Jagex had told us the cap was 200M, then you wanting them to lower the cap wouldn't be selfish. But seeing as tens of thousands of players are already way above suggested caps, that is selfish. It is not advocating for a different style of gameplay, that would be wanting updates away from gaining xp, not deleting all gained xp.

 

 

 

Things are often deleted from Runescape. Even money is as Jagex is always looking to combat inflation. Is that 'stealing' stuff too? Again, this argument about being 'selfish' isn't compelling at all. My changing of the metagame is no more selfish than the current experience-driven metagame which did away with the old metagame. What about the deleting of flower games? Was that selfishness or taking away people's fun too? Did that not alienate dozens of people? Updates will always alienate players -- that's not an issue; the important thing is what sort of long-term impact they have on the state of the game.

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There's nothing wrong with being selfish. Everybody is inherently selfish. Even being charitable is being selfish because by helping others, you know that you're making yourself feel good too.

 

Selfishness is completely acceptable and normal. Being inconsiderate, on the other hand...

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What is this actual gameplay you refer to? Almost everything we do in this game is for the single purpose of gaining better or faster XP, in one way or the other.

It's okay, Andrew. You only tried to make a fantasy world where people from around the globe could interact together to explore new realms, engage in story-filled quests, level up skills to train their character, and take on fantasy monsters or even each other in hyper-realistic turn-based combat. No one knew that clicking rocks all day* for the sake of big numbers would become this popular.

 

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:(

 

*Now an irrelevant analogy since tentscape

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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Well at least the pro-efficiency crowd basically admitted that this game isn't fun unless you enjoy arbitrarily watching numbers get bigger.

 

That just simply isn't true. The problem with this discussion is there is an apparent desire to make sweeping statements that apply to all. The problem with these statements are that they are inherently flawed, because you - or I - cannot sit here and determine what is fun FOR OTHERS. I love the idea of challenging myself to improve xp/h, to race people to goals etc, others are more interested in better and more kills @ GWD, there are others who have the singular goal and by extension derive fun from topping minigame highscores.

I don't understand the desire to be rank 1 in BA - I don't find it fun. But to say that there is to be no fun derived from it is utter hogwash. So whilst I understand that TIF is the epicenter of this EFFICIENCY VS INEFFICIENCY BOTH ARE BAD YOU SHOULD ALL BE ASHAMED argument, can we just stop with the bullshit? You find aspects of the game fun, that's great. I find aspects of the game fun. That's great. Who the [bleep] cares?

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[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

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What dumbfounds me is how this discussion isn't talking about potentially winning some content territory for experience prestige. While it may not be I'm everyones interest to obtain 104m xp in a single skill it should still be recognized. Also by 'it' I mean large experience milestones. We should be excited to see this as a victory.

 

Surely the player base will complain. It is just the same as nonpvm players and completing the fight caves and kiln. How about players and comp cape? Really its all just the perspective of there being something new to be obtained. Most players just need jagex to officiate something such as 120 skill capes for it to seem new. Other players like jeremy have been using websites to help keep track of their virtual level for a long time. So really they are familiar with virtual levels already. But to see it officiated in game would be a lot easier to manage.

 

I suppose if this poll wins its a momentous foothold for a prestige system. I foresee the next step as adding a second window for virtual levels similar to the actual skill tab. I think the prestige interface could just display virtual level. Under it we could see experience to the next virtual level and our overall experience in the skill.

 

On a side note I feel that some content needs to be released independent of the PTTP vote. A prestige system is one of those things because it leaves most players outside of its range with a bad taste in their mouth. Some content is just not designed for the players who are voting for it. The ones who feel like they'll never reach that content feel its a waste to them will shoot it down. Then when they finally max they'll be kicking themselves over it because they voted with a shortsighted view on the game.

 

Another side bar... this discussion shouldn't be about experience efficiency crowds. This is about recognizing players who play despite the level cap.

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Maxed [February 14, 2012] | Completionist [October 25, 2012] | Trimmed Completionist [in Progress]

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Inefficiency = fun. That's objective and can't be debated. Ever.

I'm glad you can speak for everyone in terms of what they regard as fun, and infer that the opinions of others however different to your own are incorrect.

I'm glad too, that you agree. Opinions don't matter, unless of course, they're mine. But in those cases, opinion becomes an objective statement.

 

Inefficiency = fun. Jagex, this is your new slogan.

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