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Cowman_133

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I can only look at the teaser images and think,"I've seen enough hentai to know where this is going..."

 

But it's making my DIY'er brain happy, be nice to train prayer in a different way.

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That fortress is so ugly :(. The height/width ratio is wrong, it looks like a 4x4x4 cube (that's metres) because of how fat the walls are and the size of the gate. It just looks really fake...

 

I don't think it looks all that bad on its own, just in relation to most other game features eg it dwarfs all the fortress and palaces and castles we already have and it looks rather wrong in relation to the trees imo.

 

It looks so horribly out of place. Theres a nice patch of green grass with some trees and a pyre then BAM! an ugly ass black castle appears out of nowhere. No build up scenery or anything. It's like they didn't make an effort to integrate it into the landscape at all.

 

Why exactly does a black ugly fortress require 'build up' in the landscape?

I could buy a plot of land in an idyllic meadow and build a big-ass black ugly building, nothing forces there to be deadened trees and ground around it.

 

And that's why you're not a concept designer. You know how you walk into Draynor, it slowly goes darker and darker, due to the omnipresence of Count Draynor, the Vampire who corrupted that area of land with his tyranny? Exactly. They didn't just build a ruined, evil manor on a flowerbed, they gradually built up to its presence of aura. The way the design looks so far for the black knight's castle, is some styrofoam sprayed black and plopped on the wilderness boarder.

 

Your example for effecting surroundings makes no sense, which is most likely why you are not a concept designer either.

 

Count Draynor is an evil and corrupting force that ruled over Draynor and corrupted the area, it makes sense for him to of had a corrupting effect beyond his home.

The Black Knights are a small relatively 'underground' faction who, as the lore goes, predominantly fail at doing stuff. They have no magical presence or corrupting power to warrant an effect of the landscape. Even their current fortress doesn't do that. The two are totally different things, with vastly different concepts behind them, one is a ruler WITH power and a corrupting presence which warrants deadened trees and dark lighting to emphasise the downtrodden oppressive feeling of the villagers. The other is a fortress owned by some knights, not mages or fantastical beasts, just plain old knights who are a bit useless and don't really command anything.

Except they've been at war with the White Knights for centuries. Also I'm studying as a graphic designer in modeling so I do kinda know what I'm on about. I said Draynor as an EXAMPLE, surely someone of your "high caliber" should have realized. It's the fact there's no graphical evidence around their fortress to SHOW their stature as "The Black Knights", except a styrofoam castle. It's not about lore, it's about the obvious. For once I wished you actually HAD an imagination and could envision something besides your backwards logical stupidity of "human = nothing" in a FANTASY WORLD.

 

Also Elite Knights underneath and Dagon'Hai Followers are from the branch of Black Knights, I'm sure they're "not just normal"

Popoto.~<3

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Sure they've been at war, but they are bad at it, thats why they are a small faction with almost no power.

 

And again there is NO reason for them to have an effect on the landscape, their stature does NOT warrant it, and they do NOT have any power that would cause it.

Slapping dead trees and dark things around for the sake of it is the WORST thing to do in design. The Black Knights power and stature in the world does not warrant any grand scale corruptive appearance it warrants a slightly tatty fortress they cling to as it's out of the way and no-one really cares.

 

Also graphic designer in modelling doesn't really qualify you to make concept calls - that's why the graphical devs and concept artists are two different jobs and teams entirely in everything from Pixar to Jagex. Besides I am a writer, with a degree in it, so don't think you can play the 'one up' I'm better qualified to be creative and conceptual game with me - my day to day trade is creative fortresses and factions and stories with just words and I can safely say slapping a load of dark stuff around a fortress for the sake of it is NOT good design, like I already said the Knights do not have any power or reason to cause such an effect. The fact they are so small and insignificant perfectly qualifies them to have basically no impact at all - this is obvious AND fits the lore.

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And that's why you're not a concept designer. You know how you walk into Draynor, it slowly goes darker and darker, due to the omnipresence of Count Draynor, the Vampire who corrupted that area of land with his tyranny? Exactly. They didn't just build a ruined, evil manor on a flowerbed, they gradually built up to its presence of aura. The way the design looks so far for the black knight's castle, is some styrofoam sprayed black and plopped on the wilderness boarder.

 

Draynor was a nice little village that was sunny etc. for around a decade.

 

It never made sense to me that a level 30 odd vampire (or whatever that equates to in EoC) had such a corrupting influence. The black knights are just humans really with a brutal way of doing things (as you can see in the Void Knight questline), they don't exactly warrant a menacing landscape/build up in the surrounding area.

Asmodean <3

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Sure they've been at war, but they are bad at it, thats why they are a small faction with almost no power.

Which is exactly what makes the enormous black castle that you can see from their enemies' walls so silly. A small fort that blends in to the surroundings, maybe with a larger underground complex (like they had before) is a lot more believable than the "STONES CARVED FROM THE VERY SHADOWS OF DARKNESS ITSELF AND WALLS THAT ECHO WITH DEATH METAL INSTEAD OF FOOTSTEPS RAAARGH" that they have in the teaser.

 

Unless they retcon the lore so that the Black Knights haven't been on the losing end of a war for however long it's supposed to have been. It'd still be an ugly castle, but you could excuse that because they're the Black Knights and that's how they roll.

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If black knights were just ordinary knights, they wouldn't have gone out of their way to build such a fake black castle. Styrofoam is exactly what it looks like. You could pick it up and lift it with one hand.

 

A normal castle, with a curtain wall and a keep, some towers:

castley.jpg

That's fairly dark rock, and it doesn't look friendly, but it's not styrofoam, and it looks defendable (it needs some more arrow slits in the keep especially, but that's minor).

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I think the styrofoam thing is mostly a problem of graphics shaders. The entire thing has a very clean look that contrasts with the worn roughness of most of the game's other stone textures (even the ground below it). If you look at the actual architecture of the castle it's very much a bulky stone monstrosity. It's an impressive piece of graphics work that really makes the Black Knights look more powerful and imposing.

 

To me, it looks like a crazy Zarosian fortress (like the Slayer Tower) from before the Godwars that was taken over by the Black Knights recently. I have the feeling that the new retcon of the Black Knight's Fortress quest (and the new sequel that will almost definitely be released with it, a la Ozan/Ariane) will give us some insight as to why the fortress is the way it is and why the White Knights haven't done anything about it.

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Yeah I don't think the Black Knights will of built that fortress themselves, more likely moved in to existing ruins.

 

Also note I never commented on how the castle itself looks, I only disagreed with the idea that it needed dead trees and stuff around it to blend it into the landscape because there is no reason for the Black Knight's to of corrupted the land nothing in their power base suggests that kind of effect. Heck it's even more fitting for them to have no effect in keeping with their useless failing kind of nature.

 

I think the location move will help explain why the White Knights haven't flushed them out the Wilderness is beyond their legal remit - it is a lawless land; and though this area may not be inside the wilderness in game-play terms geographically it is very much across the border. Plus with the raised stony base entirely inside the wildy and a single bridge to the 'main land' it would be quite easy to defend vs quite difficult to break in to.

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Looks great. I'll be interested to see the lore about why The Grotesque is there. I always wanted to see what was behind the hands of the Wall Beasts.

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[singing]

We're knights of the Round Table, we dance whene'er we're able.

We do routines and chorus scenes with footwork impec-cable,

We dine well here in Camelot, we eat ham and jam and Spam a lot.

 

We're knights of the Round Table, our shows are for-mi-dable.

But many times we're given rhymes that are quite un-sing-able,

We're opera mad in Camelot, we sing from the diaphragm a lot.

 

In war we're tough and able, Quite in-de-fa-ti-gable.

Between our quests we sequin vests and impersonate Clark Gable

It's a busy life in Camelot ...

 

I have to push the pram a lot. [/singing]

 

It's only a model (shhhhh!)

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If you look at the actual architecture of the castle it's very much a bulky stone monstrosity. It's an impressive piece of graphics work that really makes the Black Knights look more powerful and imposing.

Nope nope nope. I disagree. It's bulky, sure, but it doesn't look like a castle. To me it looks like the black knights have no idea how to build a defendable castle. If you look at the gate, you'll notice that it's designed to give the impression that it runs up to about three-quarters of the castle height. That, along with the width, gives an impression of smallness. The height/width ratio of the outer walls gives the impression of a small floor plan - a larger castle is more sprawling, like this one for example. Combined with that, the size of the people shows you that the castle was built as a log cabin for a single giant, and that the trees are ridiculously small, and the land around is flat for miles (this is a problem of mountains in general I think, but there's no need to emphasize it so much).

 

Edit: that mod sounds like she doesn't know what prayer does. Wow.

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Scale in RS is pretty messed up. By current standards, cities are like 100 meters away from each other, our characters are giants, trees are tiny, and supposedly large buildings are the size of my house.

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Edit: that mod sounds like she doesn't know what prayer does. Wow.

 

Exactly what I was about to say. It genuinely sounds like she doesn't play the game haha!

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If you look at the actual architecture of the castle it's very much a bulky stone monstrosity. It's an impressive piece of graphics work that really makes the Black Knights look more powerful and imposing.

Nope nope nope. I disagree. It's bulky, sure, but it doesn't look like a castle. To me it looks like the black knights have no idea how to build a defendable castle. If you look at the gate, you'll notice that it's designed to give the impression that it runs up to about three-quarters of the castle height. That, along with the width, gives an impression of smallness. The height/width ratio of the outer walls gives the impression of a small floor plan - a larger castle is more sprawling, like this one for example. Combined with that, the size of the people shows you that the castle was built as a log cabin for a single giant, and that the trees are ridiculously small, and the land around is flat for miles (this is a problem of mountains in general I think, but there's no need to emphasize it so much).

 

I agree about the height ratio of the towers, they do make it look a bit odd from a realistic castle standpoint. However, I think that it was likely a conscious design decision to make it a four-towered Keep design expanded to a ridiculous size. The improvements to the game engine over the past few years has made it tons easier to make larger structures a continuous, seamless centerpiece. Older structures like the White Knights' castle and the old Black Knights Fortress had to be made piece-by-piece from tile-restricted kit parts--which while it looked more "realistic", it wasn't unique nor interesting from a design perspective.

 

However, the enormous "gate" that you are talking about is actually two separate stories--containing a door and a large front "window" combined into one continuous overlaid shape. You can see the individual arch of the bottom door (more realistically sized) and then the arch of the upper portion, that shows a second story floor. There's some finer design elements like this that help a player seeing it from the ground angle get a sense of scale.

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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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New black

knights' fortress

 

2PPRF.png

 

Honestly if it were a bit darker and shinier, rather than looking so flat, it would be a lot better, regardless of shape. I don't think the shape is so bad, it just looks a bit crunched together. I'm hoping there's a good reason that it looks like that structurally on the inside.

It seems like J is trying to give RS a more cartoony feel by painting things matte. That's at least how relatively newly updated areas look, Burthorpe primarily. And demons, and trolls. I don't think I like it.

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That Nexus vid made me go a bit 'eh'

 

Why must wall beasts by a symptom of something 'wrong'? It sounds like the mod had a really odd idea of what wall beasts are and ran with it; I always just thought wall beasts are a trap laying predator type kinda akin to them spiders that hide under little rocks etc.

 

Also the tentacle hand things just seem weird in my book, plus the description of HOW you use it sounds strange, why would you collect the corruption to purify to pour back in? Surely it'd make more sense to i dunno just bless the water to pour pure holyness down on it?

 

Also I'm kinda like why Lumby swamp? This is supposed to be a relatively desolate place that Father Urheny (sp) moved to for peacefully solidtude. The ellpy shed/zanaris entrance being hidden away there too. The fact he now lives right next door to this thing is a bit wtf? Couldn't corruption been seeping out near Draynor (where its clearly corrupted) or just over the border from Morytanina (eg the edicts gone the block is starting to leak)

 

And I agree she sounds like she doesn't understand wtf prayer ACTUALLY does at all, either shes really out of touch with the game (wouldn't surprise me with expanded team, they can't all be players some gotta just be 'doing a job') OR they are feeding them PR bs scripts for the intros to the latest videos (it has annoyed me no end that lately they explain the skill/game at the start of vids it's like yeah we know already! Especially since half the time they are awkward and very clearly polished pr pieces that don't quite fit with whats in-game.

 

I get that Jagex is trying to market themselves better, but many of these latest pr moves just kinda irk me. They are polishing the pr too much, to the extent where some of it can be called outright lies, which just is not good. But then it's not too surprising with the obvious pr bs they fed us on controversies over the years. "We added buyable spins cause you all love sof so much!" Erm NO 90% of us moaned about it being annoying & the design very obvious had space for these buttons in the first place. "We know you've complained about sof but our stats show that 99% of people are enjoying it as they use their daily spins" erm NO that shows we use it to make the button go away. Few months later "I never said people enjoyed it, only that they used it." Erm NO you said the exact opposite. Few months later "We were making a lose til we added these new payment models" Oh FINALLY you tell us what we all knew. Few months later webzine pr thing "We added sof and soloman because players wanted another way to support us and they were very popular with the playerbase right away" SJFJEFBHWFBU NO, just no.

Of course OSRS wasn't much better either 'we wanna do a poll to gauge interest for a few months down the line'...poll starts to flat line SPAM TEH ADS EVERYWHERE and put it front page...poll flat lines again, move the tiers!...and again oh btw we spent like a million hours so we can have it up this weekend...oh look results say it should have a fee...HAVE IT FOR FREE! Oh and btw we aren't gnna explain why but the biggest quest ever is delayed and heres stuff about OSRS, cause clearly those million hours we spent getting it running did not in any way effect the quest release...

 

I think Jagex needs to learn to give us some credit, we can usually see through their pr bs and they also need to learn quite quickly to be HONEST. If they had told us day 1 of sof we are changing this rule and bringing this in cause this is the way the games market is moving and we have been making loses a good 75% of the rage woulda been avoided. With OSRS don't give us a poll and then mess with it part way through quite obviously when the votes are failing either give it low tiers to start with since you obviously want it passed OR just skip the poll and give us it.

 

Anyway I've gone a bit off-point so I'll stop now lol.

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all this being said, pretty sure the majority of the chambers are underground anyway, so they wouldn't exactly NEED a large castle

 

given that the area is bristling with beefy troops in the elite/dagonhai area (although i haven't visted since eoc), it's pretty defensible

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The idea of a wallbeast actually being one of these? Terrifying.

 

Every single wallbeast being a different arm of a giantic monster trying to claw its way out from under the entire swamp?

 

I am never going to Lumbridge Swamp again. Ever. Nada. At least without a bodyguard.

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I'll give the new training method a week before it becomes dead content, like most game updates nowadays.

 

They should consider making it F2P. They could definitely use an update like that.

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