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Future Update Discussions


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#5301
kamil1210
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I wouldn't be too upset if the raptor and ariane tried to kill Sliske, only to be 1 shotted. Anything else would basically ruin the story.

I want all the signature heroes to end in an epic WGS-style battle, but in a quest that requires level 30-40 all-round stats (make it F2P, too!). That's the neatest easy way of tying them up right now. Outright removal is likely too much effort for Jagex.

New quest series, in every quest one of them dies.

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#5302
Binary Mage
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I think the Signature Heroes are very much under-appreciated.

They fill a narrative void that had been lacking for some time--that of heroes, like our player character, who are trying to make their way in the world. We never directly meet any other actual players in quests (no, the Black Arm/Phoenix Gang parts don't count), so we need stand-ins that feel like they're just as important as us. The Legends Guild and other "adventurer congregations" have always felt very empty--and with the Signature Heroes we get to see some of the other members.


The major issue is, like the mods discussed in the podcast, that we haven't seen much of them yet. There has only been three quests (counting the two-parters as single quests) and a Fremmenik Saga that have featured them at all so far (mostly because the JMods really don't want to shoehorn them into quests)--they feel very one-dimensional and basic because of that. They haven't had the time to develop into likable, relatable characters like those we have come to expect. If they had never pointed them out as "SIgnature Heroes", there would never have been any specific hatred pointed towards them.

I have the odd feeling that in a few years, when there is (likely) a half dozen or so more quests featuring the Signature Heroes, no one is going to be that bothered by them anymore. Give them time.
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#5303
Quyneax
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They fill a narrative void that had been lacking for some time--that of heroes, like our player character, who are trying to make their way in the world. We never directly meet any other actual players in quests (no, the Black Arm/Phoenix Gang parts don't count), so we need stand-ins that feel like they're just as important as us. The Legends Guild and other "adventurer congregations" have always felt very empty--and with the Signature Heroes we get to see some of the other members.


The major issue is, like the mods discussed in the podcast, that we haven't seen much of them yet. There has only been three quests (counting the two-parters as single quests) and a Fremmenik Saga that have featured them at all so far (mostly because the JMods really don't want to shoehorn them into quests)--they feel very one-dimensional and basic because of that. They haven't had the time to develop into likable, relatable characters like those we have come to expect. If they had never pointed them out as "SIgnature Heroes", there would never have been any specific hatred pointed towards them.

Do you remember Cyrisus? Any of the heroes who died in WGS? More recently, the PoP adventurers? And what about other players? In Runescape, other players play the other adventurers, not NPCs. We are supposed to be reasonably unique, certainly at the level of power we represent with TWW done. There is no need for NPC adventurers to fill out the narrative, that's where co-op quests come in (would be awesome, dg-style questing).

The main problem with signature heroes is that they are set up as marketing scheme. They are extremely, extremely heavy on cliches - the good knight, the charming rogue, the single-minded character (in this case a blacksmith - she practically denies the usefulness of anything besides metal weapons, to the point that it feels very forced), the curious/investigative character (also happens to be the wizard in the standard party of four, and the 'hot girl'). Plus a stock mysterious badass character. Annoyingly, they're all so bloody nice as well. Sure, Ariane and rogue dude have been 'cast out' but that was clearly for all the wrong reasons. Cyrisus at least had some real issues - he was bloody useless in combat as a consequence.

Third point: the signature heroes are nothing like players - we are all-rounders, they are specialists. We all have access to all the powers, they use only their unique powers. We use crossbow shortcuts where they are built into the game, they use (cross)bow shortcuts only where quests call for them. Again, Cyrisus at least used the equipment that was high-end at the time - his bank was really good, but it was a player's bank, not filled with Ariane's Unique Hairpins ™ now available for just $8.99 (order here).
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#5304
Squakus
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I miss Cyrisus. :(

Him and Hazelmere were my favorite NPCs, so sad that they died.
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#5305
Binary Mage
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They fill a narrative void that had been lacking for some time--that of heroes, like our player character, who are trying to make their way in the world. We never directly meet any other actual players in quests (no, the Black Arm/Phoenix Gang parts don't count), so we need stand-ins that feel like they're just as important as us. The Legends Guild and other "adventurer congregations" have always felt very empty--and with the Signature Heroes we get to see some of the other members.


The major issue is, like the mods discussed in the podcast, that we haven't seen much of them yet. There has only been three quests (counting the two-parters as single quests) and a Fremmenik Saga that have featured them at all so far (mostly because the JMods really don't want to shoehorn them into quests)--they feel very one-dimensional and basic because of that. They haven't had the time to develop into likable, relatable characters like those we have come to expect. If they had never pointed them out as "SIgnature Heroes", there would never have been any specific hatred pointed towards them.

Do you remember Cyrisus? Any of the heroes who died in WGS? More recently, the PoP adventurers? And what about other players? In Runescape, other players play the other adventurers, not NPCs. We are supposed to be reasonably unique, certainly at the level of power we represent with TWW done.

The main problem with signature heroes is that they are set up as marketing scheme. They are extremely, extremely heavy on cliches - the good knight, the charming rogue, the single-minded character (in this case a blacksmith - she practically denies the usefulness of anything besides metal weapons, to the point that it feels very forced), the curious/investigative character (also happens to be the wizard in the standard party of four, and the 'hot girl'). Plus a stock mysterious badass character. Annoyingly, they're all so bloody nice as well. Sure, Ariane and rogue dude have been 'cast out' but that was clearly for all the wrong reasons. Cyrisus at least had some real issues - he was bloody useless in combat as a consequence.

Third point: the signature heroes are nothing like players - we are all-rounders, they are specialists. We all have access to all the powers, they use only their unique powers. We use crossbow shortcuts where they are built into the game, they use (cross)bow shortcuts only where quests call for them. Again, Cyrisus at least used the equipment that was high-end at the time - his bank was really good, but it was a player's bank, not filled with Ariane's Unique Hairpins ™ now available for just $8.99 (order here).


For the purposes of the narrative, other actual players don't exist. It wouldn't make any sense if they did--fifteen million Saviors of Varrock, fifteen million Stone-Touchers, fifteen million people all saying they were the one to kill the Pest Queen. They don't exist, and never will unless Jagex decides to have no regard for the storyline at all. The Signature Heroes are the sort of partners and adventurers that fill in those spaces. Cyrisus was the same sort of idea--but he, for obvious reasons, can't be used again.

I think the one-dimensional issues they seem to have is, again, an issue of their lack of storyline development as of yet--in the podcast the mods in control of each character's content very specifically states that they have no intention for them to be generic, boring characters. We will see a ton of character development for them--especially since they are not tied to any specific quest line like so many other characters. We've already had hints that Sir Owen will be turned against his own god, and even potentially attempt to kill him. They were all specifically designed to center around a specific character trope, and then completely turn it on its head in time. Jagex isn't staffed by fourteen-year-old fanfiction writers--they have experienced authors and designers who know how to write multi-dimensional, likeable characters. We aren't going to see that kind of character development in the few short quests they have had so far, or it would feel even more ridiculously forced.

The major difference about equipment is that Cyrisus was, for the most part, designed to follow the tropes of the player character. He is not meant to be realistic--he is a in-world character who is constrained by the same gameplay constructs that we are. He is only able to make the same replica sets of armor, wear the same kinds of equipment, and train his skills in the same linear ways. In contrast, the Signature Heroes are in-world adventurers that only need to follow the limits of their universe. They can uniquely design and alter their armor, they can use runes in ways other than specific spells, and they can do pretty much whatever they want without worrying about invisible forces preventing them from doing so. Both approaches to "adventurer" characters have their merits, but the Signature Hero style is more attractive for potential storytelling.

I'm not saying that they are amazing characters, but they are far from disasters. Not only do they very nicely advertise the possible paths of the game to new players, but they also have the potential to become really crucial and interesting pawns in this enormous mass of converging and shifting storylines that has been developed.
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#5306
brunokiller
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We're going to need a lot of pillars for all those signature heroes

#5307
Binary Mage
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On another note!



Amazing stuff. It looks beautiful!

Level 90 Ascension Crossbows!
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#5308
Hedgehog
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Sig bet recap:

Meredith: My bet is on knight's sword and black knight fortress being combined and reworked, and a rework of recruitment drive.

Alg: I bet on Black Knight's Fortress being reworked into two quests

Kimberly: It will be Black Knight Fortress and Recruitment Drive, since they're the beginnings of the White Knight/Black Knight storyline. It fits the pattern better: one f2p quest and one p2p quest. Knight's sword and Black Knight Fortress are both f2p and aren't really related to each other story-wise. Recruitment Drive is also the p2p sequel to Black Knight Fortress.

#5309
strilmus
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so, what are we shorthanding the new weapon as?

the assbow?

also is it me or does the leader look like an older evil dave

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#5310
Sylpheed
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so, what are we shorthanding the new weapon as?

the assbow?

also is it me or does the leader look like an older evil dave


Considering it's spelt as Ascension and not Assencion, I don't see why it would be.

#5311
Alg
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Considering it's spelt as Ascension and not Assencion, I don't see why it would be.

You don't know the community very well, do you...? :mrgreen:

#5312
Binary Mage
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Here's a close-up of the crossbow concept art I took from the video.

Looks like we're getting a 2h Crossbow, Arrows, Bolts, and Shards (thrown weapon, or just resources you make into the arrows/bolts?) in the update as well.
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#5313
Quest_Cape_K
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Here's a close-up of the crossbow concept art I took from the video.

Looks like we're getting a 2h Crossbow, Arrows, Bolts, and Shards (thrown weapon, or just resources you make into the arrows/bolts?) in the update as well.

Why does everyone miss the pistol?


#5314
Binary Mage
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Here's a close-up of the crossbow concept art I took from the video.

Looks like we're getting a 2h Crossbow, Arrows, Bolts, and Shards (thrown weapon, or just resources you make into the arrows/bolts?) in the update as well.

Why does everyone miss the pistol?


The dual pistol crossbows were the ones featured in the video, so those were a given.
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#5315
Quest_Cape_K
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Here's a close-up of the crossbow concept art I took from the video.

Looks like we're getting a 2h Crossbow, Arrows, Bolts, and Shards (thrown weapon, or just resources you make into the arrows/bolts?) in the update as well.

Why does everyone miss the pistol?


The dual pistol crossbows were the ones featured in the video, so those were a given.

NGL, did not see the pistols in the video.


#5316
Sy_Accursed
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If we have lvl 90 ranged gear and lvl 90 melee gear one wonders if they'll let the mage spell cap up to lvl 90 (even if they are more dependant on weapons now so til lvl 90 gear theyll be a bit behind)

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#5317
Blofeld
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Man those Mods really didnt sound excited about the update at all.
I wonder how difficult the boss will be / how rare the drop will be. Because surely to keep things balanced it should be as difficult to obtain as drygores?

#5318
kamil1210
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Man those Mods really didnt sound excited about the update at all.

I think they worked soo long on this that they lost their enthusiasm.

I hope new npc will be voiceacted and this dungeon will be good not only for boss hunters.

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#5319
Binary Mage
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It might not even necessarily be that anyone has lost their enthusiasm--some people are just really, really boring and monotonous even when talking about things they're excited for. It's often more of a voice thing than an outlook thing.

Not everyone can be Mod Osborne with his amazing storytelling voice. :P
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#5320
Blofeld
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Not everyone can be Mod Osborne with his amazing storytelling voice.


Ill be honest, I wish Mod Osborne could do every BTS video.




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