Future Update Discussions

[Drazhor]

Doesn't matter how you play the game, if you enjoy it then it's fun. Simple as that. If people tell you that you should be efficient or inefficient to have fun then they're bad and should feel bad.

In other news, I'm getting a bit curious about this Seren/Zaros thing.
Saw a few theory threads on future updates mentioning about how Seren and Zaros concepts are kinda similar, meaning their origins could be similar. As such, people are also saying the concepts for Seren were drawn up in reference with FOTG..will Seren be amking an appearance in this quest along with Zaros?

[Sy_Accursed]

In other news, I'm getting a bit curious about this Seren/Zaros thing.

Saw a few theory threads on future updates mentioning about how Seren and Zaros concepts are kinda similar, meaning their origins could be similar. As such, people are also saying the concepts for Seren were drawn up in reference with FOTG..will Seren be amking an appearance in this quest along with Zaros?

 

I havent seen anything to say the Seren concepts were drawn up for FOTG, in fact everything simply seems to indicate they were drawn up in the WGS aftermath the same time as all the gods were (re)concepted graphically. Though as a theory I wouldn't say its necessarily all that crazy - after all what we know of FOTG is playing a deciding hand in restoring Zaros to a body of some sort. The mechanics of such a task could easily tie in to how Seren is to be restored.

 

The link with Zaros seems almost inevitable though, his disembodied form has pretty much identical face to what Seren has got. Plus there are other linking factors.

Zaros was always a god, Osbourne mentioned that Seren was always a god.

Zaros is linked to shadows and silence and secrecy and might and Seren seems to be linked to all the polar opposites - light, sound and peace.

Both have survived 'dying' (or at least we are led to believe Seren can be reformed)

Both are Tier 2 gods.

[Noxx]

Whenever the Efficiency vs. Inefficiency debate comes up this is what i see:

Efficient player: I'm too elitist to admit that at some point during my RS "career" i too was inefficient. But now that i have learned to play efficient it is my duty to be a dick and ridicule anyone that doesn't gain xp/h to my satisfaction.

 

Inefficient player: I'm to causal and/or lazy to grind out exp, and/or click more than once ever 5 minutes. I'd rather take thing slow, very slow, and let the exp come when it wants to come. I'm in no rush, and i don't wish to be rushed either. I prefer enjoying myself.

 

I'm not saying either party is correct or incorrect. I fall in the middle. Some things i like to do as efficient as i can, some things i don't. I have an account with 2000+ total @150k xp/h. It was fun while it lasted, but i'm not willing to put in the dedication needed to maintain that sort of efficiency.

I do find though, more often that not, the "efficient" players are those who will tell you you're bad for playing the game the wrong way. This is exactly the reason why a clan like DGS had such an utterly disgusting reputation when they first started. It was because of elitist players who automatically assumed you were terrible at something just because you didn't do it the most efficient way possible.

 

I'm all for having fun. if you want to be like Dragonseance (i think it was him) and make a 30 minute Youtube video in your college classroom about how auras work, then go for it. If that is how you have your fun, then go for it. I'm not going to call you sad, pathetic, lame, nolifer, virgin, bad, casual, etc. etc. If that is how you have your fun, then i am extremely happy that you managed to take a game and turn it into something so passionate. I gives me some hope in our generation, that people are wiling to put in so much work for something they enjoy. Even if it's just a game.

 

But if you want to be like Green098 (or whatever the name was), and use Fire Surge on Abyssal Demons (pre-eoc) and sit there for 10 minutes while you kill 1 Demon, maybe gain 10k exp/h then go for it. If that is what you find fun, then again, i'm all for it. 

 

 

People need to get over themselves, and grow the [bleep] up. If someone's playstyle bothers you, then keep it to yourself. Their inefficiency is in no way affecting your gaming experience, and if it is (DG) then you're more than welcome to do your activities elsewhere or with someone else that has a similar playstyle to yours.

 

 

Obviously this entire post was a bit irrelevant and off topic, but i was just reminded of this when i saw the previous few posts.

[Drazhor]

The thing about the concept art was that it was apparently labelled for the project name for FOTG, which was "Purple Rose". That's just where people have linked that there may be an appearance from her in FOTG

EDIT: Found the thread I saw this connection mentioned. QFC:  16-17-957-65308169

 

2:54 of BTS 87 video shows the name of the project in relation to the Seren concept art, which is Purple Rose.

http://youtu.be/15NNsS2eNd4?t=2m40s

[Sy_Accursed]

^Has that actually been confirmed that FOTG was called 'Purple Rose' for dev name. I thought it was one of those 'facts' that people had just assumed because its a Zaros quest and zaros = purple plus the Zaros concept art said it.

[CountryDevil]

 

 

In other news, I'm getting a bit curious about this Seren/Zaros thing.

Saw a few theory threads on future updates mentioning about how Seren and Zaros concepts are kinda similar, meaning their origins could be similar. As such, people are also saying the concepts for Seren were drawn up in reference with FOTG..will Seren be amking an appearance in this quest along with Zaros?

I havent seen anything to say the Seren concepts were drawn up for FOTG, in fact everything simply seems to indicate they were drawn up in the WGS aftermath the same time as all the gods were (re)concepted graphically. Though as a theory I wouldn't say its necessarily all that crazy - after all what we know of FOTG is playing a deciding hand in restoring Zaros to a body of some sort. The mechanics of such a task could easily tie in to how Seren is to be restored.

 

The link with Zaros seems almost inevitable though, his disembodied form has pretty much identical face to what Seren has got. Plus there are other linking factors.

Zaros was always a god, Osbourne mentioned that Seren was always a god.

Zaros is linked to shadows and silence and secrecy and might and Seren seems to be linked to all the polar opposites - light, sound and peace.

Both have survived 'dying' (or at least we are led to believe Seren can be reformed)

Both are Tier 2 gods.

 

probably mentioned somewhere but seren/zaros could have been made as basically two halves of the same coin by the elder gods balancing each other out to protect/control the world

[Miss Lioness]

Not sure if this has been posted yet but here it goes!

 

 

[Yoko Kurama]

Someone on RSOF in the Poll Feedback section is already suggesting that Jagex should poll "120 levels, not just capes". Sooner than I had expected. Just another reason to vote against 120 Capes.

 

 

[helring]

Vote against capes because someone on forums wants levels? You're stretching it

[Yoko Kurama]

Vote against capes because someone on forums wants levels? You're stretching it

 

You're missing the point. This is not just one person. Quite a few in the HLF community want not only capes but also levels. So it's indicative of a certain attitude. Secondly, it's in the view of some (including mine), the next part of the slippery slope. Let's say we have the 120 Cape polls, and it passes and they are added to the game. Then what? Will the efficiency crowd go away? Likely not. They will probably come back demanding that we give them levels and content to reward them for their effort. For people who don't like that sort of stuff, eventually we will be forced to train levels past 99 to unlock content.

[helring]

 

Vote against capes because someone on forums wants levels? You're stretching it

 

You're missing the point. This is not just one person. Quite a few in the HLF community want not only capes but also levels. So it's indicative of a certain attitude. Secondly, it's in the view of some (including mine), the next part of the slippery slope. Let's say we have the 120 Cape polls, and it passes and they are added to the game. Then what? Will the efficiency crowd go away? Likely not. They will probably come back demanding that we give them levels and content to reward them for their effort. For people who don't like that sort of stuff, eventually we will be forced to train levels past 99 to unlock content.

 

 

Eventually they will probably need to raise levels. There's also a big chunk of the game though that knows its still way too soon for that. Many skills still need complete reworks, or a lot more content to fill in the current levels. I don't think demand for level 120 skills will increase however just because the capes pass. If the capes fail then those who want 120 skills will still demand 120 skills, failing this vote will have no negative effect on that. The only thing I could see that failing this vote will do is add to the number of people who want 120 skills.

 

I've almost got my comp trim cape back, I'd like some more items to go for in game and since prestige got torpedo'd, this seems the best chance of getting some new longterm goals. I'd prefer capes without 120 skills because like I said, there's still plenty that can/needs to be done with skills currently, however if I can't get capes without having new levels I would push for more levels because I need more goals and just exp doesn't cut it, there needs to be something I'm working towards.

 

By voting this down, you're basically telling anyone that just wants the capes that they need to push for 120 skills in order to get them

[Noxx]

 

Vote against capes because someone on forums wants levels? You're stretching it

 

You're missing the point. This is not just one person. Quite a few in the HLF community want not only capes but also levels. So it's indicative of a certain attitude. Secondly, it's in the view of some (including mine), the next part of the slippery slope. Let's say we have the 120 Cape polls, and it passes and they are added to the game. Then what? Will the efficiency crowd go away? Likely not. They will probably come back demanding that we give them levels and content to reward them for their effort. For people who don't like that sort of stuff, eventually we will be forced to train levels past 99 to unlock content.

 

And what amount of players currently hold level 120 in every skill? Extremely small amount compared to players that are maxed. So only a very small amount of players will be able to actually use this new content. Also, the exp gap and actual "difficulty" of reaching 1 - 99 vs. 99 - 120 is huge. The difference in time/effort investment in a bit out of proportion, in my opinion.

[Yoko Kurama]

 

 

Vote against capes because someone on forums wants levels? You're stretching it

 

You're missing the point. This is not just one person. Quite a few in the HLF community want not only capes but also levels. So it's indicative of a certain attitude. Secondly, it's in the view of some (including mine), the next part of the slippery slope. Let's say we have the 120 Cape polls, and it passes and they are added to the game. Then what? Will the efficiency crowd go away? Likely not. They will probably come back demanding that we give them levels and content to reward them for their effort. For people who don't like that sort of stuff, eventually we will be forced to train levels past 99 to unlock content.

 

 

Eventually they will probably need to raise levels. There's also a big chunk of the game though that knows its still way too soon for that. Many skills still need complete reworks, or a lot more content to fill in the current levels. I don't think demand for level 120 skills will increase however just because the capes pass. If the capes fail then those who want 120 skills will still demand 120 skills, failing this vote will have no negative effect on that. The only thing I could see that failing this vote will do is add to the number of people who want 120 skills.

 

I've almost got my comp trim cape back, I'd like some more items to go for in game and since prestige got torpedo'd, this seems the best chance of getting some new longterm goals. I'd prefer capes without 120 skills because like I said, there's still plenty that can/needs to be done with skills currently, however if I can't get capes without having new levels I would push for more levels because I need more goals and just exp doesn't cut it, there needs to be something I'm working towards.

 

 

Jagex's policy at least in OSRS is that once a poll fails, they don't poll it again for quite some time, because they want to honor the results, and not just keel polling things until they get a certain result. I imagine they will do the same if 120 fails. They won't poll it again for quite some time. So yes will it have an effect definitely. The next time some HLF person makes the 2,423,454th post on why we need 120 capes, a J Mod, or someone else, can politely point them to the poll and let them know that the community voted against it and the matter is settled. 

 

Those of us in the non-efficiency crowd who are Maxed/Comped, prefer to make our own goals, so we have no interest in numbers or pushing Jagex to make some other official standard. We'd much rather do things like PVM, or minigames or other stuff.

 

@ Noxx

 

And what amount of players currently hold level 120 in every skill? Extremely small amount compared to players that are maxed. So only a very small amount of players will be able to actually use this new content. Also, the exp gap and actual "difficulty" of reaching 1 - 99 vs. 99 - 120 is huge. The difference in time/effort investment in a bit out of proportion, in my opinion.

 

Well, a lot of the effiency crowd doesn't have 120 in all levels, only a few,  but are still pushing for 120 levels. So yeah.

 

Also, the reason the effort between 1-99 and 99-120 is so out of proportion is because RS has an exponential curve for leveling (it's the same reason that when you hit level 92, you have in actuality only finished 50% of the skill, experience wise, as opposed to 90+%). Exponential curves start out nicely, but they always get out of hand, as they are designed to do so.

[helring]

Then make your own goals, but don't cut off goals for those who aren't the type to make our own. If anything the efficiency crowd seems good at making their own goals. They're the ones going for 200m's and such.

 

Jagex hasn't polled 120 skills, they could easily honour these results and poll 120 skills since several on forums have said they won't vote for this because they want the skill levels to go to 120 and not just capes. You're aiming at the wrong target. You're equating these capes to 120 skills when there is currently no link between the two, the only thing that could join them is if this vote doesn't pass

 

All this vote is about is 104m capes. Not levels. Defeating this poll won't have any effect on 120 levels.

[Sy_Accursed]

Then make your own goals, but don't cut off goals for those who aren't the type to make our own. If anything the efficiency crowd seems good at making their own goals. They're the ones going for 200m's and such.

 

Jagex hasn't polled 120 skills, they could easily honour these results and poll 120 skills since several on forums have said they won't vote for this because they want the skill levels to go to 120 and not just capes. You're aiming at the wrong target. You're equating these capes to 120 skills when there is currently no link between the two, the only thing that could join them is if this vote doesn't pass

 

I think its naive to suggest 120 capes and 120 skills aren't linked.

They are quite clearly linked by the fact they are going to be '120' capes at the xp needed for 120 - an xp value that is utterly arbitrary in the boundaryless space between 99 and 200m xp.

 

Its setting up that arbitrary value as something more than just a number. Its giving the milestone of 120 significance and importance and turning it into a boundary point. It is a very obvious potential stepping stone to 120 level actually existing.

[Yoko Kurama]

Then make your own goals, but don't cut off goals for those who aren't the type to make our own. If anything the efficiency crowd seems good at making their own goals. They're the ones going for 200m's and such.

 

Jagex hasn't polled 120 skills, they could easily honour these results and poll 120 skills since several on forums have said they won't vote for this because they want the skill levels to go to 120 and not just capes. You're aiming at the wrong target. You're equating these capes to 120 skills when there is currently no link between the two, the only thing that could join them is if this vote doesn't pass

 

Except the efficiency crowd seems pretty dead set on official validation for their allegedly private goals, and seems to want an official standard which will probably trend towards 120 content and levels.

 

And I disagree on your second point. I don't see this as a matter of "give them the 120 capes, and they will leave you non-efficiency players alone". I see this as a slippery slope, where once we give them the 120 capes, they will come back for more. Just like the Max/Comped/Trimmed capes. There is definitely a link, and I think I am aiming at the right target.

 

And yeah, they could poll on 120 levels instead, but my guess (I have no way to prove this, and I am not even super certain of it) is that neither of the following: a 120 Cape poll, a 120 level poll, or a combination of both, would pass if polled in the foreseeable future, since the HLF/efficiency crowd is still a minority. 

[helring]

I don't know, I can only really speak for myself. I would vote down 120 skills if we had the capes, I wouldn't if capes failed. I'm not really the efficiency type, enjoying heist and games within my clan and such, but I'm also not the type that enjoys setting my own goals. I like aiming for pre-set goals, which is why my interest has been slowly fading. I'm really looking for any new very longterm goals that could be set. Prestige would have worked, but that got nuked, and now capes are up on offer. At least its something, and its something small that can just be created by ninja team, wouldn't delay any major content, wouldn't mess with other content in game, wouldn't mess with current highscores...it just seems like a minor thing for Jagex to add that would have no effect on most of the rest of the game.

[Ambler]

I'd rather have 50/100/(150)/200m xp milestone capes for skills than just level 99, ~85m xp gap of no reward, then 104m. For the few players with 200m, it actually shows that they have it, rather than putting them on level ground with those who have 104m, while giving an inbetween item for those who aren't 100m+, but have still trained a skill far past 99.

Also calling these capes Master capes wouldn't really be right, as 99 is defined as skill mastery.

50/100/150/200m <stat> Milestone Cape just sounds better imo.

[helring]

I'd rather have 50/100/(150)/200m xp milestone capes for skills than just level 99, ~85m xp gap of no reward, then 104m. For the few players with 200m, it actually shows that they have it, rather than putting them on level ground with those who have 104m, while giving an inbetween item for those who aren't 100m+, but have still trained a skill far past 99.

Also calling these capes Master capes wouldn't really be right, as 99 is defined as skill mastery.

50/100/150/200m <stat> Milestone Cape just sounds better imo.

 

I wouldn't mind that, but doubt they'd poll that if this failed. Willing to try to take what they're offering.

[W aldo]

 

No. It's never too late to change things. You're forgetting that RS existed for several years before skill capes were released, almost 10 before Comp and Max capes were released, and before the experience craze set in. The metagame can be changed at any time, and it must change, it's never too late.

 

 

I have already offered plenty of examples to the contrary, where thanks to the experience craze, tens of thousands of players have seen various accomplishments of theirs devalued. This is nothing new.

 

 

Things are often deleted from Runescape. Even money is as Jagex is always looking to combat inflation. Is that 'stealing' stuff too? Again, this argument about being 'selfish' isn't compelling at all. My changing of the metagame is no more selfish than the current experience-driven metagame which did away with the old metagame. What about the deleting of flower games? Was that selfishness or taking away people's fun too? Did that not alienate dozens of people? Updates will always alienate players -- that's not an issue; the important thing is what sort of long-term impact they have on the state of the game.

 

I don't have any problem with the metagame changing. Or I should say with you wanting the metagame to change. That has been my whole point, capping XP at 13M is completely different from changing the metagame. Don't want 120 capes? Perfectly fine with me. In fact, you could lobby to remove all milestone capes and I wouldn't argue against you even though I disagree, because I see how that goes against your style of play. I am shocked you don't understand how there is a difference between completely destroying one side of the game (with XP caps, my style of gameplay is completely done), and changing the focus of the game so there is less of an emphasis on said side.

 

Also, there is a big difference between the devaluing of XP and removing the XP. I am pretty sure everybody playing who cares about efficiency knows future updates will come that will make their older methods obsolete. That is not the point at all. First of all, just trying to maximize your experience per hour is legitimately fun for some people (this is something I don't think everybody understands). Secondly, even if they do care just about ranks, they are already ahead using the old method...you can't just wait around for new methods or you will never gain any xp.

 

Your example of removing the flower game is equally flawed. The XP cap you are suggesting is like keeping the flower game around, but lowering the gp limit to 10M because you are DIY player and having gp is not the metagame you like. Or even when they removed the flower game, they somehow removed all the money anyone had ever earned from it.

 

 

In general to this topic:

People generally hate these efficiency versus inefficiency arguments, because as stated earlier (I forget by who) they tend to boil down to "This is best way to play the game" versus "No, this is the best way to play the game." My entire argument has been based on that I want everyone to be able to enjoy the parts of the game they like, because that is part of what makes Runescape so great and diverse. However, I think capping XP at 13M would remove a style of gameplay that the majority love. People like to hate the majority, and so anytime efficiency is brought up I get nervous. Some people like to hold others to their standards...hence the xp guys saying "XPW!" to the questers and that ruins it for the rest of us who honestly enjoy this style of gameplay.

[Reliable]

I really want 120 capes for my own personal reason.

 

I am a comp'd player, have around 1.2b exp, but I'm in no way very efficient. It took me from 2001 to get to where I am now, and currently have 3 120s in exp terms. I have no aspirations for 200m all, or any 200m for that matter, because I just don't have the time or motivation to do so.

 

The reason I want 120 capes, is so I can take my favorite skill (Slayer), and make a long term goal to achieve that 120 cape. I'll never go for 120 all. Hell, it will probably take me at least 3-4 years to finish the last 60m exp I need for Slayer, but it will give me something to shoot for. This will make me stick to things I enjoy instead of grinding out all the other skills like I did before when I was working on max / comp. I actually prefer having "unobtainable" things in the game, as it makes me solely focus on stuff I love to do, but I guess I am probably in the minority here.

 

Either way, 120 capes will get a resounding "yes" vote from me, hopefully making up for the loss in the prestige system I so hoped would have come into the game.

[Rena]

I'd rather have 50/100/(150)/200m xp milestone capes for skills than just level 99, ~85m xp gap of no reward, then 104m. For the few players with 200m, it actually shows that they have it, rather than putting them on level ground with those who have 104m, while giving an inbetween item for those who aren't 100m+, but have still trained a skill far past 99.

Also calling these capes Master capes wouldn't really be right, as 99 is defined as skill mastery.

50/100/150/200m <stat> Milestone Cape just sounds better imo.

http://runescape.wikia.com/wiki/Dungeoneering_master_cape

 

Notice how it isn't called "Dungeoneering cape" it's called "Dungeoneering Master Cape".

 

Know they the 120 capes are being called Master capes and are virtual level 120 instead of 25/50/75/100/125/150/200m in skills?

It's because Dungeoneering goes to 120 and has a MASTER cape.

[Ambler]

120 for DG is "True Skill Mastery", 99 is defined as skill Mastery.

It works for DG, as there is actually content between 99 and 120- Actual levels, faster xp, more reward unlocks.

Calling 104m xp True Mastery in any other skill doesn't work, as there is no actual reward between 13m and 104m xp, other than a world message at 50/100m.

[brunokiller]

This whole 120 capes thing feels like such a circlejerk to me.

 

You want to feel recognized? Great, that's what the highscores are for. Oh, ingame? What about a partyhat or a (trimmed) comp cape?

I don't want another dose of what 99 capes brought (massive increase in the number of 99s, everyone working toward them) because I don't want RS to be about that. It's not a healthy endgame.

[kamil1210]

I don't want another dose of what 99 capes brought (massive increase in the number of 99s, everyone working toward them) because I don't want RS to be about that. It's not a healthy endgame. 

 

 

Runescape endgame, lol. idk why ppl moan about rs endgame.