Future Update Discussions

[Sy_Accursed]

Severing the link between hp lvl and food healing seems like a dumb move imo (unless it is pvp exclusive)

 

Sure some lazy people who can't be bothered to take 2 seconds to check levels may suffer from it, but by and large it is a GOOD feature. It stops lower levels have access to insane amounts of healing that make it hard to make low level content actually challenging and it helped to infuse some value to the whole spectrum of food in-game opposed to just focussing in on the top choices.

[Saradomin_Mage]

 

 

And bring back max hits pls.

... max hits already exist? Just use your best ability when you're overloaded/on prayers, and try to hit higher and higher.

 

Sure, they exist. But they bearly mean anything. The scaling down of things will help the max hit arguement. Im not asking much in overhauls just so that people know when they are actually hitting good and what they are hitting. Big numbers everywhere is like ehhh. Its the norm.

 

Is there honestly a difference between someone hitting 3000 on a player with 9900LP, as opposed to 300 on a player with 990LP?

[Major Dash]

You think they are going to change the current damage that enemies deal to make up for the LP buff? I could see them going either way tbh.

[Sy_Accursed]

But its not really an lp buff, max lp is still pretty much identical as it was before - the only difference being the first 9900 relies purely on your level and the rest relies on top tier armour opposed to maxing out at like 4-5k and armours giving the rest, with only top tiers achieving the 10k+ figures.

[Sobend]

Wow, does this LP thing mean pures are back? It seemed like that was their biggest issue with EOC.

[Alg]

But its not really an lp buff, max lp is still pretty much identical as it was before - the only difference being the first 9900 relies purely on your level and the rest relies on top tier armour opposed to maxing out at like 4-5k and armours giving the rest, with only top tiers achieving the 10k+ figures.

I think I can hit something like 9k with my ports gear (no shield, warpriest gloves and boots) in the live game, compared to over 11k with the same setup in the beta.

[Ambler]

Highest I could get, not comped though so...

[Steph]

Wow, does this LP thing mean pures are back? It seemed like that was their biggest issue with EOC.

As a pure in EOC lp was the main factor but it never made things impossible just extremely difficult. This will help out immensely.

[Sobend]

 

Wow, does this LP thing mean pures are back? It seemed like that was their biggest issue with EOC.

As a pure in EOC lp was the main factor but it never made things impossible just extremely difficult. This will help out immensely.

 

So pures are back to their strength pre-EOC? I don't see any other factors holding them back.

[Ammako]

 

 

 

And bring back max hits pls.

... max hits already exist? Just use your best ability when you're overloaded/on prayers, and try to hit higher and higher.

Sure, they exist. But they bearly mean anything. The scaling down of things will help the max hit arguement. Im not asking much in overhauls just so that people know when they are actually hitting good and what they are hitting. Big numbers everywhere is like ehhh. Its the norm.

Is there honestly a difference between someone hitting 3000 on a player with 9900LP, as opposed to 300 on a player with 990LP?

I think the problem lies with the fact hits in EOC are much less random than hits pre-EoC.

 

Pre-EoC, it didn't matter which weapon you used, you would still score low hits such as 10, 20 when your max hit was 360.

With EoC, you pretty much have a minimum hit, since an ability that does 188% weapon damage doesn't do from 0% to 188%, it does 188% when calculating damage.

 

This disrepancy is even easier to see if you try using just auto-attacks instead of abilities; sometimes you'll do like 80, 100 damage, sometimes you'd do 1000, 2000.

If you use abilities, then you're pretty much guaranteed to hit 1000, 1500 relatively often with the same weapon, hence why high hits don't seems exciting as they used to.

[God Of Lego]

 

 

 

 

And bring back max hits pls.

... max hits already exist? Just use your best ability when you're overloaded/on prayers, and try to hit higher and higher.

Sure, they exist. But they bearly mean anything. The scaling down of things will help the max hit arguement. Im not asking much in overhauls just so that people know when they are actually hitting good and what they are hitting. Big numbers everywhere is like ehhh. Its the norm.

Is there honestly a difference between someone hitting 3000 on a player with 9900LP, as opposed to 300 on a player with 990LP?

I think the problem lies with the fact hits in EOC are much less random than hits pre-EoC.

 

Pre-EoC, it didn't matter which weapon you used, you would still score low hits such as 10, 20 when your max hit was 360.

With EoC, you pretty much have a minimum hit, since an ability that does 188% weapon damage doesn't do from 0% to 188%, it does 188% when calculating damage.

 

This disrepancy is even easier to see if you try using just auto-attacks instead of abilities; sometimes you'll do like 80, 100 damage, sometimes you'd do 1000, 2000.

If you use abilities, then you're pretty much guaranteed to hit 1000, 1500 relatively often with the same weapon, hence why high hits don't seems exciting as they used to.

 

This is a better way to explain :D

[Saradomin_Mage]

I think the problem lies with the fact hits in EOC are much less random than hits pre-EoC.

 

Pre-EoC, it didn't matter which weapon you used, you would still score low hits such as 10, 20 when your max hit was 360.

With EoC, you pretty much have a minimum hit, since an ability that does 188% weapon damage doesn't do from 0% to 188%, it does 188% when calculating damage.

 

This disrepancy is even easier to see if you try using just auto-attacks instead of abilities; sometimes you'll do like 80, 100 damage, sometimes you'd do 1000, 2000.

If you use abilities, then you're pretty much guaranteed to hit 1000, 1500 relatively often with the same weapon, hence why high hits don't seems exciting as they used to.

Abilities have a maximum damage of a certain percentage of your weapon damage (e.g. 188%), and then a range of values based on that (25% to 100% of ability damage). For instance, if an ability deals 100% weapon damage, the damage on your hitsplat is anywhere from 25% to 100%.

 

There's not as much variation as autoattacks (0% to 100%), but it's still there (25% to 100%). You're just as likely to hit 400s with Slice as 1500s.

[V O R K]

What do they mean with global cooldown for food?

 

pff have the [bleep]ed it even more or what

[SwreeTak]

Quite some big changes coming to EoC. It will be really interesting to see how all this affects high level slayer and bossing...Though I still don't want Legacy in game.

[V O R K]

To EoC?

 

this is all for the legacy derps, they don't give a shit about this combat system 

 

[bleep] this shit and the retard dev team

[Ammako]

How about instead of complaining you actually provide constructive criticism?

 

I wish I didn't have to remind you that this is a BETA. It's there to try things out. Things aren't set in stone.

 

Oh no it's not working the way I want it to, on first try, in beta! So what?

 

 

BTW have you actually tried it out for yourself? All it does is that when you eat a piece of food, it triggers global cooldown on abilities just like what happens when you use an ability (a 3-tick cooldown starts.)

 

Instead of losing 10% adrenaline whenever you eat a piece of food, it triggers global cooldown. Pre-EoC, when you ate food, it used up an "action", if I can say it that way (as in, if you ate food, you had to wait a bit before your character attacked again, you couldn't attack while simultaneously eating.)

The difference here is that this forces a 3 tick wait between eating and attacking, while before you had to wait like a couple seconds.

 

In most cases it *barely* affects the speed at which you use abilities. At worst, you'll end up taking 0.6 seconds longer to do your next attack. Big deal! (It also interrupts channeled abilities.)

[Saradomin_Mage]

BTW have you actually tried it out for yourself? All it does is that when you eat a piece of food, it triggers global cooldown on abilities just like what happens when you use an ability (a 3-tick cooldown starts.)

 

Instead of losing 10% adrenaline whenever you eat a piece of food, it triggers global cooldown. Pre-EoC, when you ate food, it used up an "action", if I can say it that way (as in, if you ate food, you had to wait a bit before your character attacked again, you couldn't attack while simultaneously eating.)

The difference here is that this forces a 3 tick wait between eating and attacking, while before you had to wait like a couple seconds.

 

In most cases it *barely* affects the speed at which you use abilities. At worst, you'll end up taking 0.6 seconds longer to do your next attack. Big deal! (It also interrupts channeled abilities.)

So how many times have we had to re-learn this combat system again?

[Ammako]

Should have remained in beta for far longer than it did, that's for sure.

 

The good thing with Runescape before was that from 2004 up to EoC, every item released was given stats and (except for very rare cases) kept those stats forever.

So you would be able to buy something and not worry about a future update messing up with its usefulness.

 

But now things change every other month, so if you buy something, you run the risk of it becoming obsolete in the near future, which is dumb.

[Sy_Accursed]

^ I don't think that argument really holds true.

 

Things became obsolete all the time and updates always messed up the usefulness of items - just in different ways.

 

Did not every new op spec wep render its forerunners useless?

Did not new content render older stuff useless like dragon meds and chains?

 

Certainly eoc is more prone to turning things on their head because it should've been in beta much longer and reached a better final form instead of dripping feeding tweaks and u-turns over the course of 2+ years, but its not exactly an eoc revelation that you had to worry about your items becoming obsolete - nearly new piece of content held the power to do that to your gear.

[Issildur]

^ I don't think that argument really holds true.

 

Things became obsolete all the time and updates always messed up the usefulness of items - just in different ways.

 

Did not every new op spec wep render its forerunners useless?

Did not new content render older stuff useless like dragon meds and chains?

 

Certainly eoc is more prone to turning things on their head because it should've been in beta much longer and reached a better final form instead of dripping feeding tweaks and u-turns over the course of 2+ years, but its not exactly an eoc revelation that you had to worry about your items becoming obsolete - nearly new piece of content held the power to do that to your gear.

 

Releasing an item that is stronger than a previously existing item is in no way the same as revamping an (in EoCs case several) item.

 

In the first case, the item that you bought still retains the same functionality although there are perhaps better alternatives. In the second case, the item that you previously bought may now be entirely useless.

 

Case in point: Dragon Dagger. It was essentially the first pvp spec weapon, and although it was supplanted by AGS and Claws, it still remained very useful for a low cost, decently powerful spec weapon. At the start of EoC several items which were previously bis  or near bis (Neitiznot, Dragon Defender) were made entirely useless and items that had niche uses were removed. Jagex have also ensured the continued survivability of old bosses to forestall new content (Ascension bows, relegating ports armours to being tank class).

[Sy_Accursed]

The initial implementation of eoc making major changes is a different ballpark to the on-going tweaks we are addressing here.

 

We all knew eoc was bringing big changes and we also had several months forewarning of those changes - any one who cared to pay attention had dumped and bought accordingly well before launch.

[Ammako]

That would be true, if this process wasn't still being repeated every couple months, often without warning.

[Sy_Accursed]

But its not really without warning with them all filtering through the beta servers and thus far the majority haven't been game changes in terms of what gear is or is not good aside from the arrival of power/tank gear smashing ports etc down the scale and forcing nex and gwd bk up.

 

I mean not a single update since that has necessitated a major change in gear or greatly altered their standings vs each other.

I know virtus, asc and seis are fluctuating a bit because of the impending abilities rebalances - but we have forewarning there.

[Saradomin_Mage]

The point is that they're still making changes to basic, fundamental mechanics of the combat system. It's not the same as in pre-EOC where they added new combat items or made small tweaks; they're changing what eating food does, how eating food heals, the whole LP system (again), as well as abilities which affect the core rotations and style effectiveness. In comparison, pre-EOC combat changes are harmlessly minor (sharkbrew change which was reverted quickly, extra magic damage from staves)

[helring]

They released EOC too early, everyone pretty much realizes this. The worst they could do would be to leave it as it is just because they messed up. I'd rather some instability while they work on it than to leave it as it was.