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Soul Reaper


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#41
Alg
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Doesn't that contradict the lore?



#42
Blutters
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Doesn't the lore seem dumb to you anyway?

The only reason Zilyana dropped it lore-wise was because Saradomin or his forces took it as a trophy. Gameplay-wise, it was obviously just to give SGWD one more decent drop.
EDIT: Probably not necessarily relevant, but I've always wondered - why isn't the Armadyl Crossbow level 75, like the other GWD weapons, rather than 70? It's just a non-degrading Karil's Pistol with a slight Prayer bonus.


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#43
Sy_Accursed
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It doesn't even occur to Mod Ryan that some people may be incapable of beating any of the bosses. Talked to him on twitter and he doesn't seem to believe that some of these bosses may be above the skill and concentration levels for some people. That, combined with the extremely low suggested levels for this update (seriously, QBD is suggested for 80 combat?) makes me feel they may just be completely out of touch with the non-PvM parts of the community. https://twitter.com/...927642435350528

 

That just makes for a depressing read - the 'we talked to a lot of players' bit also is like what?

Who exactly did you talk too?

The youtuber and pvmer fanboys that half the jmods are quite chummy with and obviously offer only a niche view?

The HLF forum and development thread where the MAJORITY were against at least the very top 100% need team bosses being on it?

 

Literally the *only* place I've seen this req have more support than non-support is in the niche elite pvmer crowds, so their 'talked to alot of people' amounts to all of 'listened to our chummy fan boys and ignored the majority' #powertotheplayers....as long as you happen to be 'famous' enough for the jmods to get chummy with you and treat you like some kind of saviour royalty to milk for drawing in players cause otherwise your voice clearly doesn't matter.

 

Their boneheadedness on this one thing is really kinda ruining my impression of the ninja team I must say, they seemed so good at listening to players and making awesome updates from it - but not anymore it seems.


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#44
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Personally i was annoyed when i heard that i'd have to kill each boss at least once to keep my comp cape. But that was mainly because i thought finding teams would be very hard. Soon after i realised that this was in fact not the case. KK and Nex masses are plenty and require t80 gear. Rago was fairly easy too, and the gear requirements weren't that strict either. The only one that i can imagine giving you some trouble is Rots. Since it's only a 4-man boss, you'll usually have a hard time finding a team if you don't have top tier gear. 

The rest of the bosses are extremely easy to solo, even with the lower tiered equipment. If you've got a comp you'll almost certainly have chaotics and ports armour which is all that's needed for most of the bosses. Even Araxxor is just a matter of learning. You don't need anything more than Chaotics and Ports.

 

I'm happy that we get the option to turn group bosses off, as well. Personally i feel like it's a fair requirement for comp cape, but that we should be given the option to receive group bosses as an assignment. With that being said i do feel like group bosses such as Rago, Nex and KK will be a lot easier to find teams for in the future duo to people going for the "Final Boss" title. Rots will probably be the only one to keep a fairly strict requirement for teams.

 

What i found kind of sad the other day when browsing HLF the other day. I came across a thread asking for support on making Final Boss a trim Req. I think the thread was started by someone that was maxed or comped (i'm fairly certain he didn't have trim). Almost everyone supporting the idea was either maxed, close to max, or comped. Most of them didn't have trim, wasn't even close to trim, and probably had no intention to trim. There was one comment in specific saying "Support, make them suffer". I found this quite petty. 



#45
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Can someone explain to me why it's bad that killing every boss is a comp req?

#46
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I can see the problems that people have with this update, but I actually like it. I think its a cool concept that does need a little tweaking here and there, such as adapting their stance on leeching. That ruins the aspect of a group boss and I personally won't be doing it. 

 

As for the ROTS side of things, I managed to get a kill thanks to people in HYT. Its not as difficult as it seems, though it probably will take you a few tries. But if someone with my boss hunting level can do it without leeching or anything like that, pretty sure anyone could.

 

The main issue I think people have with this requirement is that its going to take time to do it. And a lot of people just want it instantly.


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#47
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Can someone explain to me why it's bad that killing every boss is a comp req?

 

There's a couple different issues with this depending upon who you ask.

 

My personal view is that regular comp shouldn't be about twitch skills. The newer bosses are a lot more reflex and timing oriented than the older ones and many players (especially the ones that started playing RS back when it was the farthest thing from twitch gaming you could find) just can't do it. Comp cape was about determination and if you put the time in anyone could get it. A lot of the new bosses change that and I disagree with the change.

 

Kind of attached to that idea, is that ROTS and Rago set a standard that people would have assumed Jagex would stick with. If Jagex had decided that hard bosses were trim reqs then someone could reasonably assume that they could go for comp safely without having to worry about difficult PvM, this req is bait and switch on those players who have achieved comp or worked towards it with that understanding.

 

Some players disagree with having to work together and depend upon other players for regular comp reqs. There really weren't any difficult team reqs on the comp cape. There was heroes and shiel of arrav quests where you briefly meet up with someone, there was unlocking some songs and playing a game of soul wars where while you needed other players a lot of players got those done while treating the other players like Npc's a.k.a. no real team interaction. None of this stuff was difficult at all and any interaction was pretty minimal. Those solo compers view Comp reqs as mainly a solo achievement, don't mind solo bosses being on the req but don't want group bosses on there. 

 

Lastly, there's the Power to the Players aspects of it. Mod Ryan refuses any compromises suggested so far to make it more amenable to players and doesn't seems to mainly be listening to the major PvM type players over compers/trimmers/regular players. There was a straw poll on HLF where over 60% of players wanted at least ROTS and Rago removed, with some wanting even more bosses removed. Also, a lot of the responses to the req on the boss slayer thread were negative, which took up a lot of the responses to the update. It doesn't help that the supporters of the req seem to be a lot more disrespectful than the people who have an issue with the req calling them lazy, worthless, bank standers, e-daters, etc. (Granted, I think a lot of these are just trolls and don't actually represent the PvM community.)

 

I should be clear, I'm pretty outspoken against this req, or at least asking for a compromise. However, I'm only doing this because I don't think the Ninja Team really understands a lot of the playerbase here. They seem like good people but seem to be out of touch with the non-PvM view of the latest bosses. Ryan genuinely seems to believe that anyone can complete these bosses, while I disagree because I've met a lot of skillers in the game that take a lot of explanation to just understand some basic skilling ideas, and have incredibly slow reaction times. I think the Ninja Team putting QBD as a boss for level 80's and KQ as a boss for level 60's shows a lack of understanding of the general community's bossing abilities. The teleport in edgeville that takes you to KBD lair recommends level 100 before entering when KBD is a much easier boss than QBD. So, yea, I think they're probably just used to the High level PvM crowd and so are clueless to alternate views there. 


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#48
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Can someone explain to me why it's bad that killing every boss is a comp req?

 

There's a couple different issues with this depending upon who you ask.

 

My personal view is that regular comp shouldn't be about twitch skills. The newer bosses are a lot more reflex and timing oriented than the older ones and many players (especially the ones that started playing RS back when it was the farthest thing from twitch gaming you could find) just can't do it. Comp cape was about determination and if you put the time in anyone could get it. A lot of the new bosses change that and I disagree with the change.

 

Kind of attached to that idea, is that ROTS and Rago set a standard that people would have assumed Jagex would stick with. If Jagex had decided that hard bosses were trim reqs then someone could reasonably assume that they could go for comp safely without having to worry about difficult PvM, this req is bait and switch on those players who have achieved comp or worked towards it with that understanding.

 

Some players disagree with having to work together and depend upon other players for regular comp reqs. There really weren't any difficult team reqs on the comp cape. There was heroes and shiel of arrav quests where you briefly meet up with someone, there was unlocking some songs and playing a game of soul wars where while you needed other players a lot of players got those done while treating the other players like Npc's a.k.a. no real team interaction. None of this stuff was difficult at all and any interaction was pretty minimal. Those solo compers view Comp reqs as mainly a solo achievement, don't mind solo bosses being on the req but don't want group bosses on there. 

 

Lastly, there's the Power to the Players aspects of it. Mod Ryan refuses any compromises suggested so far to make it more amenable to players and doesn't seems to mainly be listening to the major PvM type players over compers/trimmers/regular players. There was a straw poll on HLF where over 60% of players wanted at least ROTS and Rago removed, with some wanting even more bosses removed. Also, a lot of the responses to the req on the boss slayer thread were negative, which took up a lot of the responses to the update. It doesn't help that the supporters of the req seem to be a lot more disrespectful than the people who have an issue with the req calling them lazy, worthless, bank standers, e-daters, etc. (Granted, I think a lot of these are just trolls and don't actually represent the PvM community.)

 

I fully agree with this.

 

I am revolted by the idea that you need to work with other people to trudge through something for comp. Just getting the music is good enough. Getting the kill is trim.

I don't really like team content, ESPECIALLY when it restricts teamsize to 4. I only really want to get the cosmetics, which is 50 kills of all bosses and then some. I'm fine with all the bosses on that list, except rots, vorago,and posibly corp because there is no instance.


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#49
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I'm terrible at killing things

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#50
Noxx
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Can someone explain to me why it's bad that killing every boss is a comp req?

 

There's a couple different issues with this depending upon who you ask.

 

My personal view is that regular comp shouldn't be about twitch skills. The newer bosses are a lot more reflex and timing oriented than the older ones and many players (especially the ones that started playing RS back when it was the farthest thing from twitch gaming you could find) just can't do it. Comp cape was about determination and if you put the time in anyone could get it. A lot of the new bosses change that and I disagree with the change.

 

Kind of attached to that idea, is that ROTS and Rago set a standard that people would have assumed Jagex would stick with. If Jagex had decided that hard bosses were trim reqs then someone could reasonably assume that they could go for comp safely without having to worry about difficult PvM, this req is bait and switch on those players who have achieved comp or worked towards it with that understanding.

 

Some players disagree with having to work together and depend upon other players for regular comp reqs. There really weren't any difficult team reqs on the comp cape. There was heroes and shiel of arrav quests where you briefly meet up with someone, there was unlocking some songs and playing a game of soul wars where while you needed other players a lot of players got those done while treating the other players like Npc's a.k.a. no real team interaction. None of this stuff was difficult at all and any interaction was pretty minimal. Those solo compers view Comp reqs as mainly a solo achievement, don't mind solo bosses being on the req but don't want group bosses on there. 

 

Lastly, there's the Power to the Players aspects of it. Mod Ryan refuses any compromises suggested so far to make it more amenable to players and doesn't seems to mainly be listening to the major PvM type players over compers/trimmers/regular players. There was a straw poll on HLF where over 60% of players wanted at least ROTS and Rago removed, with some wanting even more bosses removed. Also, a lot of the responses to the req on the boss slayer thread were negative, which took up a lot of the responses to the update. It doesn't help that the supporters of the req seem to be a lot more disrespectful than the people who have an issue with the req calling them lazy, worthless, bank standers, e-daters, etc. (Granted, I think a lot of these are just trolls and don't actually represent the PvM community.)

 

I fully agree with this.

 

I am revolted by the idea that you need to work with other people to trudge through something for comp. Just getting the music is good enough. Getting the kill is trim.

I don't really like team content, ESPECIALLY when it restricts teamsize to 4. I only really want to get the cosmetics, which is 50 kills of all bosses and then some. I'm fine with all the bosses on that list, except rots, vorago,and posibly corp because there is no instance.

 

The reason team content is so bad is because of elitism within the community. And i think that's something Jagex either chooses to overlook or they just can't see it (which is ridiculous because it's a very "in-your-face" problem). This was very noticeable after DG had been released for a few months. Those who had a better understanding of how floors worked, how to be efficient, and how to be decent at "keying" managed to find teams and/or clans with a lot more ease than the casual gamer. This made getting 120, or even 99, such a hateful thing for so many players. The DG worlds soon became packed with players that had no idea what they were doing, because anyone half decent at the skill would do so with their regulars, friends, or clan members. This made Dungeoneering extremely tedious and frustrating. Requirements for joining clans only became stricter, too. You constantly had to improve, get faster, get better.

Same thing happened with the release of Nex. At first all you needed were Chaotic weapons and Armadyl armour. I think at some point Blessed Spirit Shields were accepted, Chaotic shileds were better, and Divine/Ely meant you could get into almost any team. Few months after that it was hard getting in a team if you didn't have Pernix, Div/Ely and a 2 or 3 Melee switch. Now it's impossible to get a Trio if you don't have t90 equipment, even though it's still possible to do it with the requirements set on the first day of release. If you want to make any sort of consistent money with the higher end bosses you need high end equipment, otherwise you're stuck with masses where you either get a split barely enough to break even/justify your time spent, or you're stuck in a mass where people have LSP so high you're not likely to see a drop for weeks. 

 

With that being said, if you're (not addressing anyone in particular complaining about rago/rots/nex/kk because it's difficult finding a team, then you might be as out of touch with the game as the Jmods themselves. As i have mentioned, finding a mass for KK and Nex are both extremely easy. Rago and Rots has (had) and FC dedicated to helping people get the kill requirement, and on top of that rago masses will become a lot more common i'm sure. Rots will probably be the only thing that will still have it's strict requirements.



#51
Nobody
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The Vorago FC has been dead for at least 6 months, unless this update revived it.  I've never heard of a ROTS FC that wasn't a leech where they charged you 20M.


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#52
Noxx
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The Vorago FC has been dead for at least 6 months, unless this update revived it.  I've never heard of a ROTS FC that wasn't a leech where they charged you 20M.

"Charles" fc might be of some assistance. He helps people get the kills assuming he has friends online willing to help. It might be hard to find kills with him sometimes. I had to wait 2 days for my Rots kill and about 2 more days for my Vorago kill.

He usually does 10-man rago kills. Himself and 3 experienced friends, with 6 "newbies". With rots he takes 3 experienced and 1 newbie. So you can understand why kills can be slow at times. It all depends on whether or not he has friends online, and which "boss" has higher demand on that day.

I'm not sure how long his fc is still going to be running.

As an alternative "Rago PvM" is the most active Rago fc i found that doesn't have top tier gear requirements. For them you need t80/90 Powergear with t80 weapons or t90 weapons with Ports/t80 Powergear. Their masses can go bigger than 10-man. I did a kill with them too.

 

For people who need KK/Nex kills there are two FCs with low requirements. I think they only require Chaotics with Ports/t80 Powergear (GWD armour might be acceptable, i can't remember).

 

LS KK 247

LS Nex 247

 

EDIT: I should add that probably a big portion of the people complaining about the kills being requirements have little or no experience with the bosses at all. They just assume it's hard/impossible based on the gear requirements set by other players. Neither rago nor rots were difficult (at all). Rago was a bit stressful for me due to a few missclicks and people dying left and right, but i finished the kill with more than a few Rocktails. On my Rots kill i used maybe 15 Rocktails, if that. For both of them i assumed that i was going to have to use every defensive ability i could, use up all my food, and shield camp for half the kill. On neither of them that turned out to be the case. I think a lot of people don't realise that these bosses are easier than they think. 



#53
Levells
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Teachingrots and riseofthe6, in addition to Charles are all learning fcs for rots; they don't always host teaching kills though, they like doing some normal ones too. I'm kind of hopping between all of them. Did some attempts w/ one of them but the other side kept failing. I want 1 for comp ofc, but it is a boss I've wanted to learn, and title chasing is another bonus.

#54
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I may join some of those to get close to 50 Vorago kills..

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#55
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As a guy who sells leech kills...

 

 

leech your kills if any of the following are the case:

 

1.  You hate bossing and want to get your requirement through as quickly as possible.

2.  You don't have any friends with skill at pvm content and have an aversion to collaborating with new people.

3.  You have some sort of physical disability or sufficient computer/network problems that prevent you from being able to complete boss content.  (Note:  it's possible to complete pvm content with a considerably worse connection than you might think.  I got my first dozen or so Araxxor kills on a 3G mobile hotspot in Africa that would disconnect mid-kill pretty consistently.  I also did quite a few rots kills on this connection, but I was learning Araxxor from scratch so that's more relevant.)

 

Otherwise, I suggest you go ahead and try your hand at the content.  It's not day of release anymore.  There are abundant videos and livestreams of all these bosses, and you might actually enjoy doing them.  The first time or two you loot the chest at Rise of the Six will pay for all your deaths there.  Jagex is trying to shift the game towards pvm content because they believe that pvm content is one of the more enjoyable aspects of eoc gameplay.  

un → en
t
 

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#56
HunterDexter
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The fact that almost the whole community is racking up exp to buy those 120 capes, proves that Jagex is thinking wrong again.



#57
Maxingmck
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I wouldnt call anyone who couldnt kill all the bosses a 'completionist'. The word in essence defines someone who has successfully attempted everything the game has to offer. Don't expect to deserve the best cape in the game just based on XP, there is a max cape for that.


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#58
Yoko Kurama
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I don't even know why Compers (including people in my clan), the sort that are mostly skillers and don't do any PVM or do very little even care about losing their comps all the time. I care somewhat but only because my Comp Cape has better stats than Max Cape, has the Spirit Cape, has the teleports, and can pick up my arrows/bolts - that's about it. If I was someone, like many of these people are, who sit at burthrope cooking/firemaking, or training whatever skill to 120, Comp would be the least of my worries - I don't think I'd need it for cooking or whatever.



#59
V O R K
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Sweet

 

now I can leech dungenoeering, minigames & bosses.


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#60
Levells
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I don't even know why Compers (including people in my clan), the sort that are mostly skillers and don't do any PVM or do very little even care about losing their comps all the time. I care somewhat but only because my Comp Cape has better stats than Max Cape, has the Spirit Cape, has the teleports, and can pick up my arrows/bolts - that's about it. If I was someone, like many of these people are, who sit at burthrope cooking/firemaking, or training whatever skill to 120, Comp would be the least of my worries - I don't think I'd need it for cooking or whatever.


But then we won't look as pretty in particles as we skill! /s
Only skilling I do is whatever combat xp I get from bossing.

On the topic of leeching, apparently there's a chat that's 10m. Might need to lower your price :P

As far as group bosses go, there are things I dislike. I don't mind them in the case of Kk, Nex, where someone can pull their weight regardless of the others, but when it comes to Vorago and Rots, where someone screwing up either directly hurts/kills you (Rago reflect) or severely hinders how well you do (getting piled by all 6 brothers when the other side dies and then consequently dying). There's a reason I enjoy nex/kk and have stayed away from the others. My attempts at Rago to learn it through the mass resulted in more deaths than success. Why? Killed on reflect. Hence I gave up for a few months. I know death is inevitable while learning, but everyone has their limit. There's only so much stupidity and incompetence causing my deaths that I can handle at a time.




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