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If anyone can do the bosses provided they have the gear and levels then there's no reason to require killing the bosses anymore than there's reason to require you to make all items with your skills. The reason its different is that not everyone can kill the bosses. I've met plenty that have a hard enough time in game just understanding how to train skills, the idea that anyone anyone can kill any boss leaves off a decent amount of players that just can't. Many of them joined when the bosses were more focused as enjoyable team events instead of frustration and elitism. Adding the twitchy bosses was a major change in the direction of bosses, it made them frustrating and more difficult than some can manage. Mastery Capes may just be a prestige item, but Reaper is just a title with plenty of titles that are either trim reqs or not required at all..  How many people had full gold cw armour prior to them adding that requirement? It certainly went up once they made it a requirement.

 

No. When I said anyone with reasonable resources at their disposal can kill all bosses provided they put in the effort and time to learn, I mean it in the same sense that anyone can be a Maxed player provided they put in the time to level their skills. The same sense that anyone can get a quest done if they take the time and effort to do it. It applies to most things in life. I did not mean to say, as you seem to think I might have, that it was effortless - it isn't.

 

Most new bosses are not unreasonably twitchy, there are plenty of options (at Rago, for example, the hardest role is Bomb Tanking, if you can't do that for whatever reason, you can be a DPS, which is far from a twitchy role). The difficulty is not unreasonable or unobtainable by the average high level player. The boss with the highest kill potential is Rots and if you put in the time to practice it and learn, your reflexes will adjust to it (assuming you're the average person). Again, if you're a below average PVM'er, it will take you a bit longer and more practice and perhaps more frustration but it is still realistically possible. Some people seem to think that just because you can't do bosses as easily as you can chop a crystal tree (a guaranteed action if you have the appropriate level), that it is impossible. It isn't.

 

Elitism is also no longer a barrier. All Runescape bosses are do-able with Chaotics and Player Owned Ports which are far from elite gear (remember, you have to do just one kill, no one is asking you to be able to do PVM at maximum or optimal efficiency). Also there are dozens of friends chat for all bossing requirements that have opened up in the last week, where people not only take noobs and help them with requirements and teach them PVM, but they do so for free. The elitism excuse is no longer valid.

 

Gold Cwars armour was a trim requirement though. Trim was always meant to be obtained only by a very tiny minority of people (literally less than 0.1%), and it's like that to this day basically. Not comparable to Comp which is supposed to be obtainable by a decent amount of high level players.

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I've met plenty that have a hard enough time in game just understanding how to train skills, the idea that anyone anyone can kill any boss leaves off a decent amount of players that just can't. 

This is something i don't understand. Perhaps i'm ignorant for thinking the way i do. But how is anything in Runescape "hard" to understand in today's world. If you're having trouble finding a good method to train a skill, there's hundreds of guides on the internet. If none of them help, there are fansites that can help. I can accept that it's "hard" to understand how to train skills the most efficient way possible without losing a game-tick, cause i assume usually those methods require precisely timed clicks, or precisely places clicks. But even that is something that a player can learn. Most are just not bothered enough because they don't want to bother with all the clicking. The same thing goes for bosses. With the exception of maybe Nex, KK, Rago, Rots and Araxxor (these bosses have a slight learning curve, but with practice becomes a lot easier), none of the bosses are really hard to understand. Bandos, Zamorak, Armadyl and Saradomin, King Black Dragon, Chaos Elemental, etc. are all pretty much: Click on Boss -> Revolution till high Adrenaline -> unload Thresholds -> Revolution till high Adrenaline -> unload Thresholds -> repeat till boss is dead, while eating/drinking as appropriate. Loot boss, repeat process.  

Jad could be a challenge the first few times if you don't know what prayer switching is. QBD can be a challenge the first few times if you don't know what to do. KQ can be a challenge the first few times if you don't know to bring different combat styles for her two phases.

But even then, there are hundreds of guides out there (new and old) that give you a detailed explanation on any boss in Runescape.

The hard part has been done by now. People have already spent countless hours dying over and over to a bosses trying to figure out what needs to be done. All you need to do is read and/or watch. All you need to do is sacrifice 15 minutes of your gametime to learn. And this is the problem, people are too lazy to learn.

It's not that people have a hard time understanding, it's more that people don't give a shit about learning. 

 

I myself am not the best PvMer. I'm probably below average. I died to Araxxor 23 times (give or take a few) on the 1st Path (the one with the minions). It was frustrating, but each time i got closer and closer. My second attempt on the 3rd path i was able to do it. Nex was pretty much the same thing when it first came out. I died a few times, but every time i gained experience and learned what not to do.

It just takes some patience to get the hang of things. But i guess thanks to SoF and TH that's something not many people have anymore. No one wants to "work" for an achievement. No one wants learn. If it's not given to them they don't want it even if it's a stretch of the arm away.

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I'm a decent PVMer, can solo Araxxi to max enrage without too much trouble and have soloed all the other bosses.

 

However Vorago is apparently nearly impossible, and not for lack of trying. I've been at it over ten hours now in a variety of teams of maxed players. I now know all the tactics and perform them flawlessly myself. I've been bomb tanking without issue all night. A few friends have been base tanking for me flawlessly all night. Despite having 3-4 people with good experience and a few more of slightly lesser experience, we've not been able to beat him in the 30+ attempts we've made. I'm certain I'll get it eventually with some close friends all on Vent or Skype, but in these runs without external software, it just hasn't been able to be done. Most runs failed due to people not getting to their box, or due to not getting off during reflect. We got to phase 5 half a dozen times, but the DPS was not sufficient to push him off the cliff.

 

Therein lies the problem with this requirement: No matter how good some of us are, we'll never be able to beat it without the other players being perfect also.  If you can't do it with a bunch of completionists with the best gear and good, but maybe not quite perfect, skills, or without external software like Skype, it's no longer measuring how much of a completionist I am, but how much of a competionist this group of people I hardly know are.

 

 

 

So don't say I'm too lazy to learn. I've read all the guides, I know how to and I indeed do everything correctly as per the guides, and I've taught all the tactics to dozens of people now, but we still can't quite get it.

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Speaking of jad, I'm glad we dont have to do it again because I was only able to do it through abusing vengeance/claw specs in the past loll.

 

The thing I dont get is why people even want to keep comp so badly. It's stats are useful solely for pve activities, and if you dont/cant do them, its not like you even need the cape's functionality. If you want to fashioncape as a skiller go grind out a 120 cape; after all, you are a skiller.

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Speaking of jad, I'm glad we dont have to do it again because I was only able to do it through abusing vengeance/claw specs in the past loll.

 

The thing I dont get is why people even want to keep comp so badly. It's stats are useful solely for pve activities, and if you dont/cant do them, its not like you even need the cape's functionality. If you want to fashioncape as a skiller go grind out a 120 cape; after all, you are a skiller.

 

This. Skillers have just grown used to the idea that Comp is theirs, and so they expect to be able to keep it effortlessly forever. After having the Comp Cape be thoroughly beset with skilling requirements, they just can't fathom the idea that another important and large demographic could or should be represented in the Comp Cape.

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Speaking of jad, I'm glad we dont have to do it again because I was only able to do it through abusing vengeance/claw specs in the past loll.

 

The thing I dont get is why people even want to keep comp so badly. It's stats are useful solely for pve activities, and if you dont/cant do them, its not like you even need the cape's functionality. If you want to fashioncape as a skiller go grind out a 120 cape; after all, you are a skiller.

 

This. Skillers have just grown used to the idea that Comp is theirs, and so they expect to be able to keep it effortlessly forever. After having the Comp Cape be thoroughly beset with skilling requirements, they just can't fathom the idea that another important and large demographic could or should be represented in the Comp Cape.

 

 

Though of course its NOTHING to do with skillers seeing as the comp cape has NEVER been purely about skilling.

There is plenty of combat and other stuff on there and always has been before this requirement.

 

Plus NO-ONE is asking for it to be effortless to keep. Also just because people can't or don't do top end team bossing does NOT mean they can't or do not do ANY combat stuff.

 

Plus NO-ONE is saying pvmers shouldn't be represented on the cape - they are already there anyway thanks to needing to beat quest bosses and dom tower and fight caves and get the QBD lore book etc.

The vast majority who have a gripe with the new req are perfectly happy with the vast majority of the bosses being there. Nex, kk, gwd, mole, kbd, qbd, kq, legionnes, jad, kiln, corp, dks - all cool, all fine, most people not a single issue with em being there. The only contentious point for most people is requiring the very twitch skill, highly skilled team focussed Rots and rago; epsecially since they ran a straw poll about the issue on HLF and 60% thought those 2 shouldn't be included. The general consensus of replies on the dev thread was those 2 shouldn't be on there.

 

But by all means continue being dismissive of anyone with a view that slightly differs from your own by belittling them as skillers who want something for nothing and are whining because they dislike pvm even though most are perfectly content for a huge chunk of the required pvm to be on there.


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I've met plenty that have a hard enough time in game just understanding how to train skills, the idea that anyone anyone can kill any boss leaves off a decent amount of players that just can't. 

This is something i don't understand. Perhaps i'm ignorant for thinking the way i do. But how is anything in Runescape "hard" to understand in today's world. If you're having trouble finding a good method to train a skill, there's hundreds of guides on the internet. If none of them help, there are fansites that can help. I can accept that it's "hard" to understand how to train skills the most efficient way possible without losing a game-tick, cause i assume usually those methods require precisely timed clicks, or precisely places clicks. But even that is something that a player can learn. Most are just not bothered enough because they don't want to bother with all the clicking. The same thing goes for bosses. With the exception of maybe Nex, KK, Rago, Rots and Araxxor (these bosses have a slight learning curve, but with practice becomes a lot easier), none of the bosses are really hard to understand. Bandos, Zamorak, Armadyl and Saradomin, King Black Dragon, Chaos Elemental, etc. are all pretty much: Click on Boss -> Revolution till high Adrenaline -> unload Thresholds -> Revolution till high Adrenaline -> unload Thresholds -> repeat till boss is dead, while eating/drinking as appropriate. Loot boss, repeat process.  

Jad could be a challenge the first few times if you don't know what prayer switching is. QBD can be a challenge the first few times if you don't know what to do. KQ can be a challenge the first few times if you don't know to bring different combat styles for her two phases.

But even then, there are hundreds of guides out there (new and old) that give you a detailed explanation on any boss in Runescape.

The hard part has been done by now. People have already spent countless hours dying over and over to a bosses trying to figure out what needs to be done. All you need to do is read and/or watch. All you need to do is sacrifice 15 minutes of your gametime to learn. And this is the problem, people are too lazy to learn.

It's not that people have a hard time understanding, it's more that people don't give a shit about learning. 

 

I myself am not the best PvMer. I'm probably below average. I died to Araxxor 23 times (give or take a few) on the 1st Path (the one with the minions). It was frustrating, but each time i got closer and closer. My second attempt on the 3rd path i was able to do it. Nex was pretty much the same thing when it first came out. I died a few times, but every time i gained experience and learned what not to do.

It just takes some patience to get the hang of things. But i guess thanks to SoF and TH that's something not many people have anymore. No one wants to "work" for an achievement. No one wants learn. If it's not given to them they don't want it even if it's a stretch of the arm away.

 

 

Its understandable not to quite get this, I was surprised the first few times I saw it as well. It mainly seems to happen with older players but they just don't seem to understand some skills without a lot of explanation and re-explanation. They also tend to be the ones that only know a few websites on the internet that family and such have shown them, so they don't really understand how to find decent guides for this stuff. There are some players out there that picked up playing RS because it was so simple, and bosses nowadays aren't. I agree with you though about some bosses being easier and less twitchy. Pretty much any boss put out pre-QBD I think is teachable pretty easily to almost anyone, the players I was mentioning could probably get them after a few hours. Its the newer ones that are issues. Stuff like QBD and Araxxor are difficult to teach them because you can't be there to instruct them for QBD and even if you could its still difficult when they often take 5-10 seconds for each click, they're much slower paced players that don't have the reaction time and reflexes.


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It's kind of being mentioned across threads, but I'll post it here.

Can we get some actual combat level to skill level numbers here? People are saying "oh, that's too high/hard to do for someone of x combat level", so now I'm curious.

 

cmb levels for Soul Reaper assignments:

Mole, kbd: 50

Barrows, Chaos ele, Kq, jad: 60

Corp, dks: 70

Gwd, qbd: 80

Kiln: 90

Kk, legiones: 100

Nex: 110

Araxxor, Rots, vorago: 120

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Dat moment when KK/Legiones are lower combat requirement than Nex when Nex is lower tier boss >.<

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It's kind of being mentioned across threads, but I'll post it here.

Can we get some actual combat level to skill level numbers here? People are saying "oh, that's too high/hard to do for someone of x combat level", so now I'm curious.

 

cmb levels for Soul Reaper assignments:

Mole, kbd: 50

Barrows, Chaos ele, Kq, jad: 60

Corp, dks: 70

Gwd, qbd: 80

Kiln: 90

Kk, legiones: 100

Nex: 110

Araxxor, Rots, vorago: 120

 

 

My noob has 103 combat, and they assigned her QBD. Her stats are 60 att, 55 str, 68 def, 78 range, 75 prayer, 65 magic and 68 summoning. So I doubt I could do QBD even though I'm 23 combat levels over suggested.


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Is it possible for HYT to organise a Vorago event?

I'm having a hard time looking for places to teach me. Charles is not doing Vorago any time soon and Rago PvM has closed off its friend's chat.


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Is it possible for HYT to organise a Vorago event?

I'm having a hard time looking for places to teach me. Charles is not doing Vorago any time soon and Rago PvM has closed off its friend's chat.

 

I'm pretty much in the same boat too. I'm not bad at PvM, I've just never been to rago so no experience


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*raises hand*

 

I would do my best to teach, but a "teaching trip" would need to have at the very minimum, four people who are competent enough to go.

Additionally, having some way to talk is needed for teaching vorago..

I'd be game to go and help out!!

PM me or buzz me in the hyt chat?


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I'd love to head down to Vorago but currently

 

1) the servers are being ddosed to hell and back

2) it's teamsplit week

3) Lucld is red-green colour-blind

 

Maybe we could wait for the servers to be a bit more stable before we plan a trip, but I'm game to give it a shot sometime.

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Teamsplit isn't my favorite week, but next week starts rocks, which is easy in comparison. DD or die :)


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There's always the TMHT, right?

Yes.

Though for teaching a Vorago trip, voip is really needed.

 

My clan has a teamspeak server that I believe we could use for Vorago..


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There's always the TMHT, right?

The two times I've gone for TMHT Vorago trips, the fc was only ever populated by me and Ambler.

 

This is all your fault(s). You guys suck.

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I'd love to head down to Vorago but currently1) the servers are being ddosed to hell and back2) it's teamsplit week3) Lucld is red-green colour-blindMaybe we could wait for the servers to be a bit more stable before we plan a trip, but I'm game to give it a shot sometime.

As expected lucld is at fault

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I can bomb tank for you


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at 1 def?


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I definitely be up for a Vorago trip - never made it to the end, so I'm a noob as well.

 

PM is always on if anything gets organised, let me know


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at 1 def?

Obviously she's trying to be cute.

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