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Russian invasion of Ukraine


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By this point it seems fairly obvious that russia is slowly invading Ukraine.

 

At what point should legitimate efforts be taken to stop them?

 

It seems to me that the UN/Nato/US/other countries have no real desire to stop russia and they could probably take over the entire country with nothing but economic sanctions. Thoughts?

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It really isn't the US's place though.

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“Huh, you never really notice how lovely the day is until you realize you’ll never see it again.”

“Mmmhmm.”

 

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It kinda is the US place when one of the other most powerful nations in the world is invading democratic people.

 

It is kinda the place of all the big powers - US, Uk, France, Germany etc. to step up and say no you cannot just invade other democratic countries in the 21st century.

 

Turning a blind eye to it would basically be an invitation to another attempt at a Nazi Empire, just a Russia one. I mean Germany passed a few discriminatory laws and people turned a blind eye and said its not our place, then Germany held the olympics and no-one made any major stand against their discriminatory laws so then Germany started to slowly invade its neighbouring countries.

 

Now take Germany out of all those sentences and put in Russia.

 

This road only leads to World War 3 unless the world and its most powerful leaders send to a strong message to Putin that this is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.

At this point it doesn't even have to be military action, Nato, the UN etc. can pass much more hard hitting sanctions - Russia assets in foreign countries can be frozen, they can stop all trading with russia, they can evict all russian diplomats and embassies, they can make shops strip all russian made products from their shelves. The big businesses who hold much sway in russia are unlikely to turn a blind eye to Putin continuing down this path if they suddenly have heaps of their assets frozen and cannot continue to trade affectively.

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Turning a blind eye to it would basically be an invitation to another attempt at a Nazi Empire,

 

In regards to that, the Russian Federation were big fans of "Hitler's Germany" and the Nazi movement well beyond WW2 even into today. 

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At this point it doesn't even have to be military action, Nato, the UN etc. can pass much more hard hitting sanctions - Russia assets in foreign countries can be frozen, they can stop all trading with russia, they can evict all russian diplomats and embassies, they can make shops strip all russian made products from their shelves. The big businesses who hold much sway in russia are unlikely to turn a blind eye to Putin continuing down this path if they suddenly have heaps of their assets frozen and cannot continue to trade affectively.

Couldn't that infuriate Russia even more? 

 

I don't want to sound like a Doomsayer, but I think Russia and China will combine forces and "conquer" the world. That's coming from both a religious and personal view.

Hasn't China said in the past that they could raise an army of over 200 million? 

 

War is coming.

 

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Noone wants to sanction Russians, because it would lose money. Russia is a market with 150 million consumers. Noone wants to be cut off from that.

Also, most of Europe is reliant on Russia for nearly all oil and gas. A few countries by as much as 100%. Baltics, for example.

 

I am fairly certain, and Merkel and others have said they won't start WW3 for Ukraine. Noone does anything. All is up to Putin. He can do whatever he wants, and there isn't anyone confident enough to oppose.

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So I've noticed this thread's regulars all follow similar trends.

 

RPG is constantly dealing with psycho exes.

Muggi reminds us of the joys of polygamy.

Saq is totally oblivious to how much chicks dig him.

I strike out every other week.

Kalphite wages a war against the friend zone.

Randox pretty much stays rational.

Etc, etc

 

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The general perception of the United States around the world isn't exactly the best. And yet, the U.S. repeatedly attempted to help countries whether it be with aid or with soldiers. The U.S. just can't win in the public eye. Sit back and they're criticized for not helping, push the issue and they're criticized for getting in the way of other's business.

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Tell me about it.

 

And I live in one of the most US-friendly countries in Europe.

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So I've noticed this thread's regulars all follow similar trends.

 

RPG is constantly dealing with psycho exes.

Muggi reminds us of the joys of polygamy.

Saq is totally oblivious to how much chicks dig him.

I strike out every other week.

Kalphite wages a war against the friend zone.

Randox pretty much stays rational.

Etc, etc

 

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The general perception of the United States around the world isn't exactly the best. And yet, the U.S. repeatedly attempted to help countries whether it be with aid or with soldiers. The U.S. just can't win in the public eye. Sit back and they're criticized for not helping, push the issue and they're criticized for getting in the way of other's business.

 

That's more of a general problem with military interventions though. They very often have negative results and the question is whether to do nothing, which means the original atrocities will continue, or if you intervene and likely leave a country with new and possibly worse issues behind.

In this case, I definitely don't want the US to intervene. There's next to nothing to be gained and a lot to be lost. It might very well lead to World War III if the US deployed their army there.

 

I think right now the best course of action would be for the Ukraine to accept the temporary loss of territory, and to impose grave sanctions on Russia. Putin will never back down, but maybe the international isolation will make Russians realize where their president has got them and result in a strenghtening of the  opposition. And I just don't think that control over the region for Ukraine is worth all those deaths that would be necessary, if it's even possible considering the fairly open support of Russia with troops and weapons.

 

But Saq is right, really serious sanctions won't happen, because it would cost money which East Ukraine isn't worth in the minds of politicians and major corporations.

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Well, it ain't only about East Ukraine anymore. Question is, whether Putin stops with Ukraine or goes further.

 

Moldova for example... Ukraine's small neighbour, whose biggest export is humans (unfortunately). Poorest country in the EU, with lots of (older) people still yearning for the old Soviet times.

 

Ain't looking too shabby for us either.

t3aGt.png

 

So I've noticed this thread's regulars all follow similar trends.

 

RPG is constantly dealing with psycho exes.

Muggi reminds us of the joys of polygamy.

Saq is totally oblivious to how much chicks dig him.

I strike out every other week.

Kalphite wages a war against the friend zone.

Randox pretty much stays rational.

Etc, etc

 

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An observation - the United States has less influence around the world today than say, ten or twenty years ago.

 

I think this has more to do with the political atmosphere and the current president then it has to do with military strength or technological capability.

Put another way, if the United States had someone similar to Putin for President, I don't think Putin would invade Ukraine.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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Then again, popular opinion in the US is more against intervention than for it. I think if obama had the same political support bush did post 9/11 he'd be much more likely to take military action.

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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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An observation - the United States has less influence around the world today than say, ten or twenty years ago.

 

I think this has more to do with the political atmosphere and the current president then it has to do with military strength or technological capability.

Put another way, if the United States had someone similar to Putin for President, I don't think Putin would invade Ukraine.

If we had someone similar to Putin I think we would have invaded Syria / Egypt / Libya / Iran or any combination of those four by now, in which case that might be incentive enough for (real) Putin to invade Ukraine.

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An observation - the United States has less influence around the world today than say, ten or twenty years ago.

 

I think this has more to do with the political atmosphere and the current president then it has to do with military strength or technological capability.

Put another way, if the United States had someone similar to Putin for President, I don't think Putin would invade Ukraine.

If we had someone similar to Putin I think we would have invaded Syria / Egypt / Libya / Iran or any combination of those four by now, in which case that might be incentive enough for (real) Putin to invade Ukraine.

 

 

Why would invading any of those four countries give Putin more incentive to invade Ukraine? Also, Putin has already invaded Ukraine, so why would it matter?

 

As far as I can tell, stopping Russia from annexing Ukraine would have done some good. If there was no fighting in that area, MH17 likely would not have been shot down sparing 298 innocents.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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An observation - the United States has less influence around the world today than say, ten or twenty years ago.

 

I think this has more to do with the political atmosphere and the current president then it has to do with military strength or technological capability.

Put another way, if the United States had someone similar to Putin for President, I don't think Putin would invade Ukraine.

 

Your perception of lack power and influence that the U.S. projects has nothing to do with our President. In the last ten or twenty years, we've seen many other countries enter the world stage as serious power players. It's not that the U.S. is dwindling, it's just no longer the only show in town. 

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An observation - the United States has less influence around the world today than say, ten or twenty years ago.

 

I think this has more to do with the political atmosphere and the current president then it has to do with military strength or technological capability.

Put another way, if the United States had someone similar to Putin for President, I don't think Putin would invade Ukraine.

If we had someone similar to Putin I think we would have invaded Syria / Egypt / Libya / Iran or any combination of those four by now, in which case that might be incentive enough for (real) Putin to invade Ukraine.

 

 

Why would invading any of those four countries give Putin more incentive to invade Ukraine? Also, Putin has already invaded Ukraine, so why would it matter?

 

As far as I can tell, stopping Russia from annexing Ukraine would have done some good. If there was no fighting in that area, MH17 likely would not have been shot down sparing 298 innocents.

 

I mean what you're suggesting with that statement is that Putin wouldn't invade the Ukraine because the US's hardass president would [bleep] him over somehow, but if we were already invading countries x y and z we would probably have more difficulty generating that response.

 

It's easy to look back in hindsight and say 298 people could have been spared but you have failed to consider the events that might have unfolded had we intervened.

TANSTAAFL

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An observation - the United States has less influence around the world today than say, ten or twenty years ago.

 

I think this has more to do with the political atmosphere and the current president then it has to do with military strength or technological capability.

Put another way, if the United States had someone similar to Putin for President, I don't think Putin would invade Ukraine.

If we had someone similar to Putin I think we would have invaded Syria / Egypt / Libya / Iran or any combination of those four by now, in which case that might be incentive enough for (real) Putin to invade Ukraine.

 

 

Why would invading any of those four countries give Putin more incentive to invade Ukraine? Also, Putin has already invaded Ukraine, so why would it matter?

 

As far as I can tell, stopping Russia from annexing Ukraine would have done some good. If there was no fighting in that area, MH17 likely would not have been shot down sparing 298 innocents.

 

I mean what you're suggesting with that statement is that Putin wouldn't invade the Ukraine because the US's hardass president would [bleep] him over somehow, but if we were already invading countries x y and z we would probably have more difficulty generating that response.

 

It's easy to look back in hindsight and say 298 people could have been spared but you have failed to consider the events that might have unfolded had we intervened.

 

 

Obama had a red line in 2012, warning Syria not to use chemical weapons. Syria did, and it drew no response from the U.S.

 

What happens when Obama tells Putin that invading other countries will draw a response from the U.S.? Obama now has history of losing games of chicken.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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I don't think the president is solely to blame, but I think it's ridiculous to claim he has nothing to do with it. he has proven throughout his presidency that he is averse to military action compared to his predecessors, and that does affect the way the world views the US. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, but it definitely has an effect.

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"It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti

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An observation - the United States has less influence around the world today than say, ten or twenty years ago.

 

I think this has more to do with the political atmosphere and the current president then it has to do with military strength or technological capability.

Put another way, if the United States had someone similar to Putin for President, I don't think Putin would invade Ukraine.

If we had someone similar to Putin I think we would have invaded Syria / Egypt / Libya / Iran or any combination of those four by now, in which case that might be incentive enough for (real) Putin to invade Ukraine.

 

 

Why would invading any of those four countries give Putin more incentive to invade Ukraine? Also, Putin has already invaded Ukraine, so why would it matter?

 

As far as I can tell, stopping Russia from annexing Ukraine would have done some good. If there was no fighting in that area, MH17 likely would not have been shot down sparing 298 innocents.

 

I mean what you're suggesting with that statement is that Putin wouldn't invade the Ukraine because the US's hardass president would [bleep] him over somehow, but if we were already invading countries x y and z we would probably have more difficulty generating that response.

 

It's easy to look back in hindsight and say 298 people could have been spared but you have failed to consider the events that might have unfolded had we intervened.

 

 

Obama had a red line in 2012, warning Syria not to use chemical weapons. Syria did, and it drew no response from the U.S.

 

What happens when Obama tells Putin that invading other countries will draw a response from the U.S.? Obama now has history of losing games of chicken.

 

It's pretty willfully ignorant to suggest that Middle Eastern countries killing each other is seen with the same heft as Russia invading Europe.

TANSTAAFL

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If Obama can't keep his word on smaller, easier matters, why would anyone think that he'd keep his word on more difficult ones?

 

If the U.S. went scorched earth with drones in Syria after the chemical weapons, who would've batted an eye? The U.S. has been in the middle east for most of the last decade.

99 dungeoneering achieved, thanks to everyone that celebrated with me!

 

♪♪ Don't interrupt me as I struggle to complete this thought
Have some respect for someone more forgetful than yourself ♪♪

♪♪ And I'm not done
And I won't be till my head falls off ♪♪

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