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Recent trend to include PvM into Comp Cape, i.e. Rush of Blood [Split]


stonewall337

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Hey everyone,

 

Just a reminder that this thread is for discussion of Prifddinas. While Rush of Blood is a portion of this update, it's veering towards combat in general and is getting off topic.

 

 

 

It's an interesting and topical discussion that has stemmed tangentially from Rush of Blood and Hall of Fame Challenge requirements from the Elf City update, and the recent trend to include PVM requirements into the Comp Cape. Could you, if possible, separate it into its own thread?

 

 

 

Placing a brick wall in your way when you've already earned something can take away your enjoyment. They had much more logic to what was trim and what was regular before. By breaking that they did cause issues. Some people cannot do high tier pvm whether you choose to believe it or not. I'm glad you can but that doesn't apply to everyone. Yes, there are cases where practice helps, there are others where it doesn't

 

If you're a skiller who, for whatever reason, can't do PVM, then there's already a cape (several in fact) that are specifically designed for you: the Skill Capes, the Expert Capes, the Master Capes, and finally the Maxed Cape. The Comp Cape was in theory supposed to be a cross-section of all or most relevant aspects of the game, and thus it was an oversight and misake to not include PVM requirements into it - that has recently been rectified. If you're a skiller and completely unable to do PVM, well, then you shouldn't have a Comp Cape, just as if you're a PVM'er who finds skilling too boring to get 99's, in which case you wouldn't and shouldn't have a Max Cape.

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It's an interesting and topical discussion that has stemmed tangentially from Rush of Blood and Hall of Fame Challenge requirements from the Elf City update, and the recent trend to include PVM requirements into the Comp Cape. Could you, if possible, separate it into its own thread?

Sure, I'll split it off now.  Give me a couple minutes to get the relevant posts.

 

Complete.

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It strikes me jagex are getting themselves into dangerous waters in regards to comp reqs.

 

Scrum Team 2 aka elf city team are now openly conceding that the top-end twitchy pvm of Araaxor is too much for comp as some can't beat it through no fault of their own and are looking to remove it from the comp req on the slayer challenge, but add it to trim.

 

But how can they concede that alteration without also conceding the Ninja Team should've listened to player feedback that said Raxxi, Rago and Rots were too much for plain comp and should be trim only with a lesser version of the reaper title existing for plain comp.

 

Strikes me as if they change one and not the other they are just opening themselves up for attacks about inconsistency.

I said this on reddit, but I think the RS community gives up far too easily in regards to what can be done.

 

Comp cape isn't supposed to be simply "who can spend X amount of hours to finish content." There should be SOME actual skill requirement to achieve it as well. Even a dozen tries isn't enough to say you can't do Araxxor. There are bosses I've spent 500+ attempts on, over 60 hours of time, working to beat in other games. You don't give up and say "dis 2 hard nurf plz."

 

Unless you play RS.

 

Cleave won't kill you at low enrage, unless you aren't at high health. Put brew on actionbar, and spam brews, problem solved. You can get hit by literally every cleave and finish it. There is no enrage timer, you can take as long as you need to kill it. So do path 1, and just make sure to target mirrorback spiders/pulsing spiders ASAP. That's about the extent of the mechanics in that fight that you need to do.

 

But people say "I can't do it, too hard."

 

Again, sure your ISP might be bad, and that sucks. But good gameplay isn't designed around bad internet.

 

Some content needs to be hard, otherwise rewards, comp cape included (which SHOULD be hard an exclusive, which it isn't.) are meaningless.

 

 

Placing a brick wall in your way when you've already earned something can take away your enjoyment. They had much more logic to what was trim and what was regular before. By breaking that they did cause issues. Some people cannot do high tier pvm whether you choose to believe it or not. I'm glad you can but that doesn't apply to everyone. Yes, there are cases where practice helps, there are others where it doesn't

If they can't do higher end PvM fine. That doesn't mean they deserve comp cape. In fact, I'd say the opposite. If there is content you can't do, it sucks but that doesn't mean the game should be nerfed.

 

Guess what, there are people in LoL who can't get out of bronze. There are raiders in WoW who can't beat heroic bosses. There are people in every game who can't beat parts of that game. That doesn't mean everything should be available to them

 

A runescape where the only requirement to get anything is time is a runescape that sucks. Comp has no skill involved to get, because there are no real "difficult" requirements, just time consuming ones now.

 

Let me ask this question:

 

I enjoy PvM/combat far more than skilling. I can beat any boss in the game, and could go and within a week finish getting any kills I don't currently have (since I just recently came back.) But I don't like some skills like construction.

 

Why don't I deserve completionist cape? Is having more time a better metric than better PvM skills? I'd argue no.

 

Likewise, I'd argue that just because you have not killed Araxxor yet doesn't mean you can't. It just means you have not tried hard enough.

 

Put in 50+ wipes and I'd still say that isn't enough. Some parts of comp cape take dozens or hundreds of hours to achieve. I see no problem with finding a way to beat a boss being one of them. Just like efficiency reduces the time to level a skill, being better at castle wars helps reduce the time to get the armor for trimmed, and being better at PvM helps kill the bosses needed for comp quicker.

 

If you can't do the content, you don't deserve the cape.

 

But if they need help, hit me up. I can probably teach someone how to do it in 15 minutes, easy.

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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
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People raging about having to do a little PvM to do the completionist cape; imagine if they asked people to do some PvP :P.

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People raging about having to do a little PvM to do the completionist cape; imagine if they asked people to do some PvP :P.

Too much potential boosting to ever accomplish anything legit with said requirements :P.

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People raging about having to do a little PvM to do the completionist cape; imagine if they asked people to do some PvP :P.

 

Duelist Hats and Wilderness hoods for trimmed comp? :-D

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[2:21:46 PM] Baldvin | Leik: these comp reqs are so bad

[2:22:36 PM] Arceus Dark: Time to get...req'd?

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Its not like Combat isn't already rewarding without the comp reqs, arguably too rewarding. Combat already gives the best money in game short of merching. It has its own cosmetic titles, outfit, pets, kiln and fire capes. 

 

Comp cape is too useful to cut people off from it for things beyond their control like poor reflexes, phobias, or more deliberative and less twitchy thinking. Thats why the high level PvM should be on trim where its a cosmetic upgrade and not cutting them off from useful content. Instead of forcing them to switch to lesser capes for everything.

 

As a friend of mine put it, a major issue with these reqs in both soul reaper and now rush of blood/morvran's challenge is that they are changing the basics of what the capes were about to many people.

 

Comp Cape was the marathon. Some people are faster, some are slower, but everyone could get there eventually if they kept chugging along. It wasn't about "skill", it was about dedication. Just put in the effort and you were guaranteed to get it.

 

Comp Trim was the decathlon. Put whatever insane reqs on it you wanted and for the most part people accepted it (I still think the CW req should be removed, but whatever). It involved the high level bosses, the crazy stuff like 4k chompy kills, anything that required more than just some effort, or required incredible patience for little rewards (4k chompy kills with nothing to show for it but a hat).

 

Now they've decided that a bit of effort isn't enough. You need to have the reflexes, less lag, and ability to use the PvM system that they just provided an alternative for.

 

there's no real consistency anymore in where they put requirements. Before you could kind of see some rationale to what went onto trim and what was regular. Now it seems to be whichever they feel like at the time.

 

did get my trim back tonight though, so happy about that. 

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As already stated, one solo araxxor kill and surviving vorago/rots is not high level pvm. The requirement is not beyond reason at all as it only really requires you to experience all parts of the game. The fact that this wasn't a comp requirement from the start is more-so the problem than having these combat based requirements pop up nowadays. If you aren't willing to put time and effort into getting better at pvm then why do you deserve comp more-so than someone who isn't willing to put time and effort into training skills? 

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Thing is, you are simply wrong helring, even if you don't want to admit it. Whether or not it is useful doesn't matter either. Hell, I'd say it's more useful to me, someone who does PvM far more than skills, including araxxor, than someone else. If anything that argument works in my favor, not yours.

 

Comp is about completing the game. Not about just putting in time. If it were a matter of something other than completing the game, hell I'd say my "skills", the little rs needs, at PvM mean I deserve the cape more than someone who just has more time spent.

 

But that's not how it works.

 

Don't like it, can't do it, practice or don't get the cape.

 

It's a reward. Not an entitlement.

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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
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It seems a weird requirement to have something that takes real skill when 99.9% of the requirement for comp cape is patience to continue the grind. 

 

I really don't see grinding as a skill, so including pvm activities that take a level of skill on a group of players who aren't skilled players is just odd to me. 

 

You are surpised that a completionist cape requires completing things?

 

The issue is that this is like, the only thing in RS that requires skill.

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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
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It's a reward. Not an entitlement.

This exactly.

 

Somehow I don't even think that this rush of blood is that hard. I haven't tried it myself yet. Sure I believe theres alot of luck involved but then again is that so wrong? this is a cape that takes at least like 80 days of your time to get if you're being super efficient. Would you prefer skill or luck based content? Because it has to be one of those two. Otherwise it has no [bleep]ing interest. Don't even bring casuals into this. Completionist cape isnt casual. I'm just used to people whining about everything. I used to think vorago and rots were like impossible to do. One day I asked a friend to take me to rots, turns out it wasnt that bad. I actually had fun.

 

Btw first kill of araxxor isnt even that hard. You can basicly soulsplit araxxi and dont have to bother pray switching. OMG that requires 95 prayer. Well actually you dont even have to soulsplit. It's just this hype people have for things theyre bad at. Took me like 40 tries on release day to get a kill. You know what I did? I played the game, had fun and pushed myself to keep trying. Eventually it rewarded me.

 

[bleep] this generation thats all about instant gratification. Then again im not sure if it even exists, i always enjoyed working for the feelgoods.

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[bleep] this generation thats all about instant gratification.

The condescension in this thread is thick enough to cut with a knife.

 

Are you sure you know how to use the knife?

 

What else is there to say? It's an entire thread of "If they can't do it they need to get good", ignoring the fact that you're basically telling people they should be more than happy to risk potentially hundreds of millions in gear and supplies on practice into a clunky and only barely functioning combat system, when they could potentially be fighting physical or mental problems that they may not be able to overcome, or just the kinds of connection issues that make even moderately twitchy content impossible for people without those issues. I'm not really seeing that as an issue of instant gratification.

 

It just doesn't feel like those points are being addressed at all, here. The thread kind of reads like healthy twentysomethings saying that if they can do it, everyone else should be able to.

 

I mean, yes, leeching is an answer, but then what's the point of having the requirement at all? Just being able to visit the boss is already covered by the soundtrack.

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[bleep] this generation thats all about instant gratification.

The condescension in this thread is thick enough to cut with a knife.

 

Are you sure you know how to use the knife?

 

What else is there to say? It's an entire thread of "If they can't do it they need to get good", ignoring the fact that you're basically telling people they should be more than happy to risk potentially hundreds of millions in gear and supplies on practice into a clunky and only barely functioning combat system, when they could potentially be fighting physical or mental problems that they may not be able to overcome, or just the kinds of connection issues that make even moderately twitchy content impossible for people without those issues. I'm not really seeing that as an issue of instant gratification.

 

I mean, yes, leeching is an answer, but then what's the point of having the requirement at all? Just being able to visit the boss is already covered by the soundtrack.

 

Risk hundreds of millions? Wut? You can protect 5 items. There is no real risk anyway unless you internet is bad.

 

Not to mention the argument that Jagex should take into account possible emotional issues people have with spiders is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start making fun of it, let alone tearing it apart.

 

On top of that the most prevalent argument against it hasn't been any of those. It's been a simple "I can't do it/I don't want to do it/I shouldn't have to do it."

 

Again, if you can't do the content, you don't get the reward. Personally I think comp cape means next to nothing since its all about time, and nothing else. It's why I play WoW now. I'll take skill over grinding for my main goal in a MMO any day. Sure, RS is fun. But there is no real challenge.

 

Learning the fight, you protect 5 items, so that's both weapons and top/bottom/helm. You risk gloves/neck/ring/boots/cape. Even wearing slightly worse gear in those spots won't make/break a kill, unless it is super clutch to begin with (and my first kill I had a good 10+ brew flasks left and 5-6 rocks, with max stats and better gear should be no problem.) 

 

So people need to stop [bleep]ing and yes, get better.

 

Or is needing to be good at something to acquire a reward something bad?

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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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Risk hundreds of millions? Wut? You can protect 5 items. There is no real risk anyway unless you internet is bad.

 

Not to mention the argument that Jagex should take into account possible emotional issues people have with spiders is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start making fun of it, let alone tearing it apart.

 

On top of that the most prevalent argument against it hasn't been any of those. It's been a simple "I can't do it/I don't want to do it/I shouldn't have to do it."

 

Again, if you can't do the content, you don't get the reward. Personally I think comp cape means next to nothing since its all about time, and nothing else. It's why I play WoW now. I'll take skill over grinding for my main goal in a MMO any day. Sure, RS is fun. But there is no real challenge.

 

Learning the fight, you protect 5 items, so that's both weapons and top/bottom/helm. You risk gloves/neck/ring/boots/cape. Even wearing slightly worse gear in those spots won't make/break a kill, unless it is super clutch to begin with (and my first kill I had a good 10+ brew flasks left and 5-6 rocks, with max stats and better gear should be no problem.) 

 

So people need to stop [bleep]ing and yes, get better.

 

Or is needing to be good at something to acquire a reward something bad?

Okay, but can you at least pretend to address the physical disability part? That is literally all I'm asking.

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[bleep] this generation thats all about instant gratification.

The condescension in this thread is thick enough to cut with a knife.

 

Are you sure you know how to use the knife?

 

What else is there to say? It's an entire thread of "If they can't do it they need to get good", ignoring the fact that you're basically telling people they should be more than happy to risk potentially hundreds of millions in gear and supplies on practice into a clunky and only barely functioning combat system, when they could potentially be fighting physical or mental problems that they may not be able to overcome, or just the kinds of connection issues that make even moderately twitchy content impossible for people without those issues. I'm not really seeing that as an issue of instant gratification.

 

I mean, yes, leeching is an answer, but then what's the point of having the requirement at all? Just being able to visit the boss is already covered by the soundtrack.

 

Risk hundreds of millions? Wut? You can protect 5 items. There is no real risk anyway unless you internet is bad.

 

Not to mention the argument that Jagex should take into account possible emotional issues people have with spiders is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start making fun of it, let alone tearing it apart.

 

On top of that the most prevalent argument against it hasn't been any of those. It's been a simple "I can't do it/I don't want to do it/I shouldn't have to do it."

 

Again, if you can't do the content, you don't get the reward. Personally I think comp cape means next to nothing since its all about time, and nothing else. It's why I play WoW now. I'll take skill over grinding for my main goal in a MMO any day. Sure, RS is fun. But there is no real challenge.

 

Learning the fight, you protect 5 items, so that's both weapons and top/bottom/helm. You risk gloves/neck/ring/boots/cape. Even wearing slightly worse gear in those spots won't make/break a kill, unless it is super clutch to begin with (and my first kill I had a good 10+ brew flasks left and 5-6 rocks, with max stats and better gear should be no problem.) 

 

So people need to stop [bleep]ing and yes, get better.

 

Or is needing to be good at something to acquire a reward something bad?

 

One thing I have to agree with alg is that the grave system is horribly outdated and basicly causes grieve. It's not a good gameplay function. Having said that, I hardly think about what im taking to a boss. Like stonewall said, theres 5 slots you can protect. The rest is rather irrelevant anyway.

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Risk hundreds of millions? Wut? You can protect 5 items. There is no real risk anyway unless you internet is bad.

 

Not to mention the argument that Jagex should take into account possible emotional issues people have with spiders is so ridiculous I don't even know where to start making fun of it, let alone tearing it apart.

 

On top of that the most prevalent argument against it hasn't been any of those. It's been a simple "I can't do it/I don't want to do it/I shouldn't have to do it."

 

Again, if you can't do the content, you don't get the reward. Personally I think comp cape means next to nothing since its all about time, and nothing else. It's why I play WoW now. I'll take skill over grinding for my main goal in a MMO any day. Sure, RS is fun. But there is no real challenge.

 

Learning the fight, you protect 5 items, so that's both weapons and top/bottom/helm. You risk gloves/neck/ring/boots/cape. Even wearing slightly worse gear in those spots won't make/break a kill, unless it is super clutch to begin with (and my first kill I had a good 10+ brew flasks left and 5-6 rocks, with max stats and better gear should be no problem.) 

 

So people need to stop [bleep]ing and yes, get better.

 

Or is needing to be good at something to acquire a reward something bad?

Okay, but can you at least pretend to address the physical disability part? That is literally all I'm asking.

 

 

No, because I don't find it relevant to game design. Game design, especially end game content, isn't deigned so that literally anyone can do it. There are always going to be people who can't get something or do something. And that is ok. Not everyone will be able to do everything and getting everything in every game. And that is GOOD game design, not bad design.

 

Bad internet? You can't raid or play FPS multiplayer well or play LoL well. Those are not issues that a game company should or does balance around.

 

As for the grave system, ye.

 

This is part of the reason we need a death rework, for penalties when dying. With the ability to protect 5 items, and/or have a gravestone for like, 21 minutes, the real threat when dying isn't getting back to your grave. It's getting disconnected (which causes the death) or being disconnected when running back.

If I lose something because of a D/C, something I can't control, and it isn't returned, that would make me quit or get really mad. That's simply not good gameplay.

Most items lose charges when you die. Put in a ransom or recharge period for deaths at dangerous monsters, like araxxor. You die, and instead of items dropped losing 10% charges (which is fine, although I generally just run back for non-deg items and protect items that would lose charges) put in some system to "redeem" items lost.

And if someone comes to your grave when you die, instead of allowing them to loot items, instead have that redemption fee go to that player, but increase it.

Honestly, losing 50m because I failed and didn't keep an extra sapphire lantern in bank, ok that would suck and I'd be pissed.

But losing 50m because the whole world DC'ed when I was at araxxor, and I couldn't log in for 35 minutes, that is inexcusable.

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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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I find the topic of people with disabilities playing the game is particularly topical to Runescape, since one of the charities when they opened the Well of Goodwill was SpecialEffect, a charity designed around helping the disabled to play games. http://services.runescape.com/m=news/well-of-goodwill

 

If Jagex really wants the disabled to be able to play games, then they shouldn't cut them off from the top content. 

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I find the topic of people with disabilities playing the game is particularly topical to Runescape, since one of the charities when they opened the Well of Goodwill was SpecialEffect, a charity designed around helping the disabled to play games. http://services.runescape.com/m=news/well-of-goodwill

 

If Jagex really wants the disabled to be able to play games, then they shouldn't cut them off from the top content. 

Again, that is a terrible metric for game design. There is always going to be content people who are disabled can't do.

Stonewall337.png
[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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I find the topic of people with disabilities playing the game is particularly topical to Runescape, since one of the charities when they opened the Well of Goodwill was SpecialEffect, a charity designed around helping the disabled to play games. http://services.runescape.com/m=news/well-of-goodwill

 

If Jagex really wants the disabled to be able to play games, then they shouldn't cut them off from the top content. 

Again, that is a terrible metric for game design. There is always going to be content people who are disabled can't do.

 

 

Yes, but they can make the rewards for that content cosmetic like trimmed comp, or pets, or titles, etc. They don't need to use that content to cut off top end items. You can't avoid making content that some can't do, you can limit that contents effect.

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I'd kinda be interested to see some of these people who insist anyone can be good at pvm if they just practice take some of the people who openly admit to being bad at pvm and see if they can make them good.

 

I mean if it all it takes is practice it shouldn't be a problem right?

 

I'm openly appalling at pvm, no skill at it what so ever, but I've still participated and tried it out over  the many years of playing runescape and guess what: I still completely and utterly suck at it.

Sure I can get by ok at stuff like GWD these days, but that has less to do with skill improvement and more to do with the fact new top end gear means I can be a total mess at it and still survive pretty easily.

 

I mean I even gave KK a shot with my clan, I swiped at it like once and ended up spending the rest of the time running in circles spamming food with no concept of what was happening because I had so much lag I had no idea where the KK was, where I was or if I was nearly dead.

 

By all means I'll persevere and get through Araaxor and Vorago and RotS on a wing and a prayer on a day when my net is being nice, but make no mistake with 11 years of practicing pvm it hasn't made me good at it and I sincerely doubt I'll ever be good at it and anyone trying to prove I can be good at it with a enough practice would probably rage quit at my ineptitude with pvm.

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I'd kinda be interested to see some of these people who insist anyone can be good at pvm if they just practice take some of the people who openly admit to being bad at pvm and see if they can make them good.

 

I mean if it all it takes is practice it shouldn't be a problem right?

 

Sign me up for the practice lessons! I could really use them =3!

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[bleep] this generation thats all about instant gratification.

The condescension in this thread is thick enough to cut with a knife.

 

Are you sure you know how to use the knife?

 

What else is there to say? It's an entire thread of "If they can't do it they need to get good", ignoring the fact that you're basically telling people they should be more than happy to risk potentially hundreds of millions in gear and supplies on practice into a clunky and only barely functioning combat system, when they could potentially be fighting physical or mental problems that they may not be able to overcome, or just the kinds of connection issues that make even moderately twitchy content impossible for people without those issues. I'm not really seeing that as an issue of instant gratification.

 

It just doesn't feel like those points are being addressed at all, here. The thread kind of reads like healthy twentysomethings saying that if they can do it, everyone else should be able to.

 

I mean, yes, leeching is an answer, but then what's the point of having the requirement at all? Just being able to visit the boss is already covered by the soundtrack.

 

 

A few thoughts:

 

Personally, I can tell you from experience that despite being a Comped player who has done his fair share of PVM and has top-end gear, I don't risk "hundreds of millions of GP" at any boss that I do, and have basically engaged with all PVM content successfully in this game in some fashion or another. So that's simply not a valid concern. The grave/risk system is flawed and what not, but not for the reasons that you mention.

 

Also, I agree, leeching should not be allowed, or there should be mechanics placed against it, if the requirements are to mean anything. One should not simply be able to buy their way through PVM requirements.

 

And now for the most serious of your concerns, namely those people with disabilities, and their inability to partake in such activities or obtain Comp Capes, let me say unequivically, and I'm sure a lot of people will be horrified with this response, that I am completely fine with people with disabilities being excluded.

 

The fact of the matter is, just like society at large, we can't have the game being designed in such a way as to include everyone; that's either impossible, or if it is possible, it'd would water down the game to such an extent that it would be unrecognizable to us and completely unappealing to us. The game should be designed so that the average player, or perhaps slightly above average (in the case of high-end stuff) should be able to do it comfortably, not just everyone. As others have mentioned, designing a game that lets everyone, literally everyone, do everything is bad, awful design.

 

There are people who don't have the attention span to do the slower skills, should we make it so that they can instantly get 99s or in a much reduced time? There are people who are too busy with work and/or school, or perhaps family, to get the Comp Cape, should we drastically reduce the time from all requirements for them? Absolutely not, that'd be absurd. (That's not to say that there aren't requirements which are absurd or take too long, but in those cases, it should be reduced for other reasons, not so that a few people can't do them)

 

The fact of the matter is that everything must be exclusionary in some way, and people with disabilities are a statistical minority who are negligible in the grand scheme of things. We should help them in real life to make life easier for them, but we cannot simply water everything down so that they partake in it easily so much so that it is to the detriment of everyone else. The same applies to Runescape. If you're disabled, then there are certain things you just can't do and you have to accept that, that's just how life works.

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As someone with a handful of disabilities... you literally cannot cater to everyone. Every disability is different. If you make the game accessible to one, then you may well be making it inaccessible to another. Adding certain features and options can make it accessible in some ways without hindering others (LoL does a good job of this with their colorblind mode, and most games have re-assignable inputs), but making bosses less difficult to cater to the disabled is silly and actually kind of insulting.

 

So, don't use that as justification in this discussion, please.

 

All that being said: I do think Rush of Blood is a fine comp req. It takes some luck and persistence, but that's fine. Other high level PvM is more questionable, to me, but I can see it going either way. To me, the comp cape has always been much less about skill and much more about persistence and time investment. Including high level PvM disrupts that, some. I definitely prefer that it be reserved for trim - adding high-tier bosses to normal comp definitely shuts out a group of players from obtaining it, including some who previously had comp before those reqs were added - but I'm not going to throw a fit over including it either.

Obtained quest cape and base 92 before obtaining any 99s! Currently finishing out my 99s with the (long-distant) goal of comp cape.
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