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Recent trend to include PvM into Comp Cape, i.e. Rush of Blood [Split]


stonewall337

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People with disabilities are taught that even though they are handicaped they are no less of a human being than any other. They are capable of doing whatever they want as long as they persue it. The probld is using that logic in something that is just a game and only holds entertainment value. I have friends who ive met over the years who have MS and would quest and skill and do most everything else a regular player would do. They do what they can and what content comes their way that they cant do they simply dismiss it. They dont acknowledge it and let it get them down. They dont whine about not being able to do something. They recognize they are handicaped and appreciative of what they can do.



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I really hate how somehow this thread turned into a discussion about people with disabilities. I think it's extremely disrespectful to bring that up here.

 

And really, what this thread boils down to is: Can someone who hasn't killed vorago ONCE say they've completed the game. To me, the answer is obviously no.

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First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

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I really hate how somehow this thread turned into a discussion about people with disabilities. I think it's extremely disrespectful to bring that up here.

Then what? Shovelling away a group specifically because it has disabilities is in my eyes disrespectful. Especially when it might be a valid concern.

Some disabilities does restrict certain content. For example, I found myself unable to do fight caves properly in pre-eoc due to that big importance of hearing the sound to determine the attack that Jad will do. As a near deaf person, I couldn't hear it and hence was almost always defeated without even seeing the healers. Back then, the animations happened after the sound, so for the best reaction, most players relied on the sound.

 

And really, what this thread boils down to is: Can someone who hasn't killed vorago ONCE say they've completed the game. To me, the answer is obviously no.

 

So you would propose making "The Final Boss"  a comp requirement? Surely killing it a hundred times must be?

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I really hate how somehow this thread turned into a discussion about people with disabilities. I think it's extremely disrespectful to bring that up here.

Then what? Shovelling away a group specifically because it has disabilities is in my eyes disrespectful. Especially when it might be a valid concern.

Some disabilities does restrict certain content. For example, I found myself unable to do fight caves properly in pre-eoc due to that big importance of hearing the sound to determine the attack that Jad will do. As a near deaf person, I couldn't hear it and hence was almost always defeated without even seeing the healers. Back then, the animations happened after the sound, so for the best reaction, most players relied on the sound.

 

And really, what this thread boils down to is: Can someone who hasn't killed vorago ONCE say they've completed the game. To me, the answer is obviously no.

 

So you would propose making "The Final Boss"  a comp requirement? Surely killing it a hundred times must be?

 

 

If everything in the game is made accessible to those with the worst disabilities, being disabled becomes a requirement to get any sort of challenge. You sacrifice the majority to serve the minority.

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I really hate how somehow this thread turned into a discussion about people with disabilities. I think it's extremely disrespectful to bring that up here.

 

And really, what this thread boils down to is: Can someone who hasn't killed vorago ONCE say they've completed the game. To me, the answer is obviously no.

 

Well, it's relevant to the topic, as people have pointed out that it's somehow discriminatory to have a game where disabled people can't do everything (I of course disagree with this), but it's certainly relevant and a valid topic to discuss, even if it is controversial. As long as it is discussed respectfully, I see no harm.

 

 

 

I really hate how somehow this thread turned into a discussion about people with disabilities. I think it's extremely disrespectful to bring that up here.

Then what? Shovelling away a group specifically because it has disabilities is in my eyes disrespectful. Especially when it might be a valid concern.

Some disabilities does restrict certain content. For example, I found myself unable to do fight caves properly in pre-eoc due to that big importance of hearing the sound to determine the attack that Jad will do. As a near deaf person, I couldn't hear it and hence was almost always defeated without even seeing the healers. Back then, the animations happened after the sound, so for the best reaction, most players relied on the sound.

 

And really, what this thread boils down to is: Can someone who hasn't killed vorago ONCE say they've completed the game. To me, the answer is obviously no.

 

So you would propose making "The Final Boss"  a comp requirement? Surely killing it a hundred times must be?

 

 

A) Having a complex and challenging set of requirements by definition requires that certain people won't be able to it. That's not discrimination against disable people, that's just a fact of life. We can't water down everything in order to allow everyone to be able to do it.

 

B) Having PVM requirements as a part of Comp Cape does not logically imply that Final Boss should also be a part of Comp Cape. Comp Cape is supposed to signify that you engaged with all sorts of content (including PVM content) to a certain extent (just a little bit at least). Final Boss is an extreme requirement meant only for a small minority of hardcore PVMers, it has no place in Comp or even Trimmed (and I say this as someone who is working on Final Boss as we speak).

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B) Having PVM requirements as a part of Comp Cape does not logically imply that Final Boss should also be a part of Comp Cape. Comp Cape is supposed to signify that you engaged with all sorts of content (including PVM content) to a certain extent (just a little bit at least). Final Boss is an extreme requirement meant only for a small minority of hardcore PVMers, it has no place in Comp or even Trimmed (and I say this as someone who is working on Final Boss as we speak).

 

 

Bolded part is where your own reasoning can turn against you.

 

Ignore Reaper and Famous titles and you still have had to engage with all sorts of content, including pvm, to certain extent (just a little bit atleast) to get the cape.

There's the fight caves and kiln, there's sunfreet and the dom tower, there's all the quest bosses, there's the need to kill kbd and qbd for ooak, there's the variants of the gwd bosses in tww etc.

 

Put Reaper and Famous back in sans the contentious mobs (raxi, rago and rots) and you still have had to engage with all sorts of content, including pvm, to a certain extent (just a little bit atleast).

There's dks and kq and kk and gwd and nex and mole and corp and barrows etc.

 

If comp cape only needs to be about engaging with all sorts of content at least a little bit why is it so vital that 3 contentious top-end boss encounters stay on there when even without them there is plenty of pvm content within the reqs?

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I really hate how somehow this thread turned into a discussion about people with disabilities. I think it's extremely disrespectful to bring that up here.

Then what? Shovelling away a group specifically because it has disabilities is in my eyes disrespectful. Especially when it might be a valid concern.

Some disabilities does restrict certain content. For example, I found myself unable to do fight caves properly in pre-eoc due to that big importance of hearing the sound to determine the attack that Jad will do. As a near deaf person, I couldn't hear it and hence was almost always defeated without even seeing the healers. Back then, the animations happened after the sound, so for the best reaction, most players relied on the sound.

 

And really, what this thread boils down to is: Can someone who hasn't killed vorago ONCE say they've completed the game. To me, the answer is obviously no.

 

So you would propose making "The Final Boss"  a comp requirement? Surely killing it a hundred times must be?

 

For the first part, a game can't be designed with a certain or a group of disabilities in mind unless it's for that specific group. If the game itself isn't designed with this in mind, then expecting comp to still take it into account is idiotic. Also, i never play rs with sound(as it sounds horrible, obviously) and have never had any problem with anything within the game so you are just grasping at nothing there.

 

The final boss title doesn't specifically add anything on the reaper title beyond repetition so I do think one should be a trim and the other a normal comp requirement. Doing ''some'' PvM for comp would be the same as maxing ''some'' skills for it. Killing every boss once means you've completed that part of the game, just as getting all 99s(and a 120) means you've maxed skills.

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

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Why is it so vital that the top-end bosses are taken off the cape?

 

When the Fight Kiln was released, Har-Aken became a top-end boss and a solo encounter testing your endurance and PVM skills, as well as a requirement for the completionist cape.

When the Queen Black Dragon was released, it became the new top-end solo boss, a test of "twitch" skills to an extent, as well as a requirement for the completionist cape.

 

If you had bad internet, you'd have trouble with both.

If you had a bad computer that lagged, you'd have trouble with both.

If you disconnected, you'd die, and in the case of the QBD stand to lose some gp on degradables or whatever.

If you had bad gear, you'd have a horrible time on both.

 

What reason is there to remove Araxxor + Araxxi when that duo is basically a step up from both of these bosses, as expected from progression in an MMO?

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I find the topic of people with disabilities playing the game is particularly topical to Runescape, since one of the charities when they opened the Well of Goodwill was SpecialEffect, a charity designed around helping the disabled to play games. http://services.runescape.com/m=news/well-of-goodwill

 

If Jagex really wants the disabled to be able to play games, then they shouldn't cut them off from the top content. 

Again, that is a terrible metric for game design. There is always going to be content people who are disabled can't do.

 

 

Yes, but they can make the rewards for that content cosmetic like trimmed comp, or pets, or titles, etc. They don't need to use that content to cut off top end items. You can't avoid making content that some can't do, you can limit that contents effect.

 

No, that's the opposite. You make it cosmetic if you CAN NOT do it.

 

You don't see Riot allowing people higher ranks in LoL because of disabilities. You don't see Blizzard allowing people easier/undeserved gear or achievements in WoW or Diablo.

 

You make a game have certain allowances for people with disabilities, like colorblind mode or click to move, but you can't make it so everyone can get everything.

 

If you are disabled, it sucks, but there are things you can't do. There are things EVERYONE can't do. And sometimes that means you don't get things.

 

It's not like you NEED the cape. It's nice, but hardly vital.

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I'd kinda be interested to see some of these people who insist anyone can be good at pvm if they just practice take some of the people who openly admit to being bad at pvm and see if they can make them good.

 

I mean if it all it takes is practice it shouldn't be a problem right?

 

I'm openly appalling at pvm, no skill at it what so ever, but I've still participated and tried it out over  the many years of playing runescape and guess what: I still completely and utterly suck at it.

Sure I can get by ok at stuff like GWD these days, but that has less to do with skill improvement and more to do with the fact new top end gear means I can be a total mess at it and still survive pretty easily.

 

I mean I even gave KK a shot with my clan, I swiped at it like once and ended up spending the rest of the time running in circles spamming food with no concept of what was happening because I had so much lag I had no idea where the KK was, where I was or if I was nearly dead.

 

By all means I'll persevere and get through Araaxor and Vorago and RotS on a wing and a prayer on a day when my net is being nice, but make no mistake with 11 years of practicing pvm it hasn't made me good at it and I sincerely doubt I'll ever be good at it and anyone trying to prove I can be good at it with a enough practice would probably rage quit at my ineptitude with pvm.

This is actually what I do in WoW. I've taught over 50 people how to be better at several classes, some of which are now in high end guilds. I've written or helped write several guides as well. But you know what? Most of those people sought me out and asked for help.

 

I've offered several people who said they couldn't do araxxor help and advice, including VOIP chats and a stream if they wanted. Not a single one has taken me up on that offer. It seems it's far easier to complain about hard content than it is to actually get better at it.

 

Not to mention you don't need to become good at it, just good enough.

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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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I am getting close to Final Boss, managed to do Rush of Blood 20+ on third try, have hundreds of Araxxor kills using every single style. I still think these are a bit ridiculous requirements for the regular completionist cape.

 

I know the disability thing is a touchy issue, but I look at my wife, who is about to max, with only a few more Dungeoneering levels left to get completionist. Due to doctor negligence during her open heart surgery as a kid (birth defect in her heart), she had a pretty bad stroke that caused her to be blind on her right side, massively cut down her reaction speed, and made it very hard to learn new things. We have been working together so she could manage to do some bosses, and sure enough, she finally managed to take down QBD, and some mid level bosses. When it comes to Araxxor however, her reaction speed makes it near impossible to beat. She has tried over 50 attempts so far, getting to phase 3 only twice due to these issues (tunnel 3 is essentially impossible). She is about to quit bothering for completionist, as she just can't manage to get her kill, and this is not even including Vorago, RotS; team based bosses that people tend to have low tolerance for mistakes, let alone the reaction time required to clear these bosses regardless. So please don't say we haven't tried.

 

She isn't even too bothered by Araxxor alone, as we can one day maybe duo it for her reaper title, but of course that is nullified with Morvran's challenge (thankfully being changed). The team bosses are the real big issue, as it's easy enough when she is with me, who understands and is patient, but when you have to add multiple other people who (usually) aren't so patient and wouldn't understand the extent of her disability, this brings in a whole new multitude of problems. I am a big advocate of removing team bosses from a solo accomplishment cape.

 

I can also refer to my friend, who works on a vessel and lives there due to his work. His internet makes the game barely playable skilling, and makes it virtually impossible to boss, especially in a team setting (good luck finding teams that are accommodating to disconnects every 5 mins).

 

I understand the cape should require some skill, I'm not debating that. What I am debating is the need of multiple players to obtain your (ex) solo accomplishment cape. I have no problem with team activities in the game, I just don't like them being required in order to progress in solo accomplishments. I refuse to team with people unless I absolutely have to in this game, as a good chunk of the PvM community (much like the PvP community) is elitist, requires perfection, and is downright toxic with their attitudes. Sure, not everyone is like that, but I'd even go as far as saying a majority is, and this is 100% from my own experiences. I'm just lucky that I have the ability to do everything "perfect" to stay on these teams, but rest assured, I'll be so happy when Final Boss is complete and I no longer have to deal with them.

 

Also, Rush of Blood I really dislike as a requirement, as I was able to manage no problem, but I have full T90 gear. This is also a major issue in alot of PvM teams, requiring you to have the best of the best gear or they won't even accept you, but I'll discount that since there are SOME teams that don't (however rare). Rush of Blood however, almost requires T90, minus a ridiculous amount of luck and the utmost precision accuracy and 110% mastery of everything possible in combat. I 100% support a change to that requirement, but I don't think that will come.

 

I also find it a bit disturbing that this is causing a massive influx of people sharing accounts to get others to clear these requirements for them. I've had literally 8 different people ask me to do their Araxxor for them, most of which have considerable wealth on their accounts. This is just asking for more hacking / scamming, but this is also a player choice, so I can't (fully) blame Jagex on that, it just sucks to see it occurring right now.

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I am getting close to Final Boss, managed to do Rush of Blood 20+ on third try, have hundreds of Araxxor kills using every single style. I still think these are a bit ridiculous requirements for the regular completionist cape.

 

I know the disability thing is a touchy issue, but I look at my wife, who is about to max, with only a few more Dungeoneering levels left to get completionist. Due to doctor negligence during her open heart surgery as a kid (birth defect in her heart), she had a pretty bad stroke that caused her to be blind on her right side, massively cut down her reaction speed, and made it very hard to learn new things. We have been working together so she could manage to do some bosses, and sure enough, she finally managed to take down QBD, and some mid level bosses. When it comes to Araxxor however, her reaction speed makes it near impossible to beat. She has tried over 50 attempts so far, getting to phase 3 only twice due to these issues (tunnel 3 is essentially impossible). She is about to quit bothering for completionist, as she just can't manage to get her kill, and this is not even including Vorago, RotS; team based bosses that people tend to have low tolerance for mistakes, let alone the reaction time required to clear these bosses regardless. So please don't say we haven't tried.

 

She isn't even too bothered by Araxxor alone, as we can one day maybe duo it for her reaper title, but of course that is nullified with Morvran's challenge (thankfully being changed). The team bosses are the real big issue, as it's easy enough when she is with me, who understands and is patient, but when you have to add multiple other people who (usually) aren't so patient and wouldn't understand the extent of her disability, this brings in a whole new multitude of problems. I am a big advocate of removing team bosses from a solo accomplishment cape.

 

I can also refer to my friend, who works on a vessel and lives there due to his work. His internet makes the game barely playable skilling, and makes it virtually impossible to boss, especially in a team setting (good luck finding teams that are accommodating to disconnects every 5 mins).

 

I understand the cape should require some skill, I'm not debating that. What I am debating is the need of multiple players to obtain your (ex) solo accomplishment cape. I have no problem with team activities in the game, I just don't like them being required in order to progress in solo accomplishments. I refuse to team with people unless I absolutely have to in this game, as a good chunk of the PvM community (much like the PvP community) is elitist, requires perfection, and is downright toxic with their attitudes. Sure, not everyone is like that, but I'd even go as far as saying a majority is, and this is 100% from my own experiences. I'm just lucky that I have the ability to do everything "perfect" to stay on these teams, but rest assured, I'll be so happy when Final Boss is complete and I no longer have to deal with them.

 

Also, Rush of Blood I really dislike as a requirement, as I was able to manage no problem, but I have full T90 gear. This is also a major issue in alot of PvM teams, requiring you to have the best of the best gear or they won't even accept you, but I'll discount that since there are SOME teams that don't (however rare). Rush of Blood however, almost requires T90, minus a ridiculous amount of luck and the utmost precision accuracy and 110% mastery of everything possible in combat. I 100% support a change to that requirement, but I don't think that will come.

 

The whole "team based for a solo achievement" is a valid argument. I would say, however, it fails to hold any value when talking about a completionist achievement in a MMO. Because remember, this isn't a single person game, and some things you need a team to do.

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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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The whole "team based for a solo achievement" is a valid argument. I would say, however, it fails to hold any value when talking about a completionist achievement in a MMO. Because remember, this isn't a single person game, and some things you need a team to do.

 

 

I wouldn't have had as much of a problem if this stuff was an original requirement. It's that the cape has been out for years, causing it to become a major goal for many people since it is actually achievable, then years into their progress changing it to something that ruins the entire goal for them. It's a classic dangling of a carrot then yanking it away at the very last minute.

 

This has been my wife's goal for almost 2 years, and is the main reason she has been working so hard maxing out everything. To take it away after all that work is very frustrating, especially when the new requirement is something that was never part of the cape (team-based activities). New skilling requirements and such are not an issue as that has been what the cape has always been about.

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I'd first like to say that it's a testament to Tip.its community that we can have such an in depth  debate about this with close to zero bitterness or arguing/flaming. It's deffinitely something that is rare on the internet now days and is deffinitley why this is my favourite RS forum. It is clearly not a black and white problem, with good arguments for and against it, made even more difficult by the disability debate. It's really great also to hear from people who have suffered, or encountered others that suffer from varying disabilities, as it is hard to contemplate/ debate the matter without  personal experiences without resorting to straw man arguments.

 

I do agree that it is a big double standard for them to be pushing arraxxor back to a trim req, one that is frustrating given how much debate was had with the ninja team and they would not back down. That said I don't think it is unreasonable having arraxxor as a comp req, as others have said getting the first kill of the day is quite forgiving (especially when paths 2 and 3 are open).  I am naturally a pretty dire PVMer, but I really wanted to be able to do Arraxxor profieciently: it took me around 10-14 hours of trying and dying over and over, but eventually I got there. Given the time livid farm takes, spending that amount of time to learn a boss is perfectly reasonable.   I think part of the problem with PVM reqs lies in the fact that in RS, we always expect to be able to quantifyably see our progress, watching numbers get bigger is a simple, yet key part of why peope play the game. Therefore given PVM is not something you gain progress points for,  its simply you die or you don't, and therefore it is very frustating to spend many hours and have absolutely nothing to show for it.

 

I personally was very opinionated agaisnt  the team bosses being comp reqs before the soul reaper updat. But now I have acually attempted (and killed) them for the first time my opinion is that is a perfectly reasonable comp req. As I have explaind before, I went in with the view of  'PVM'ers are the most self righteous A- holes in the world', but after I actually was forced to work with them to kill the bosses I actually found them to be some of the nicest people I hav ever met in my 10 years of playing.     Another common arguement is that it's not fair as it requires you to be mega rich to play,but Ports gear has made every boss doable for even poor people now.

 

To be blunt on the matter of disability, I do not think it is possible to cater to every single type, so it would be unfair to do so for some and not others. Sure simple things like colourblindness are not game changing ,so are fine, but it's not like RS was ever marketted as a simple game, deliberately suitable for people with poor reaction speed causing disabilities. So why pretend it was.  

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The reasons being brought up against PvM requirements for comp are, to me, all reasons why a comp cape should never have existed. People feel entitled with the cape. They feel that having one is a must and that everyone should be able to have one. To me, that is just not the case. Lets be honest- it's just a glorified cosmetic item. It doesn't mean you are particularly good at the game, just that you've completed most of it. I see no reason at all why everyone should have one. The game is designed to have fun, not to complete it, and not everyone enjoys all parts of the game in order to complete it. That's solely the reason i will never even bother getting one. If PvM is not your thing, do you really have to spend time doing something you hate for a cosmetic item? No you don't.

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As the best in slot item comp is arguably more than just a cosmetic.

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As the best in slot item comp is arguably more than just a cosmetic.

For the time it takes to obtain and maintain, yes, it's a cosmetic item.

First to 99 Farming on 27. September, 2005.

First to 3766 Port Score on 20. March, 2014.

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As the best in slot item comp is arguably more than just a cosmetic.

For the time it takes to obtain and maintain, yes, it's a cosmetic item.

 

I'd say that it's more like a "bragging rights reward".  You've got the best cape in the game, but do you really need it?

 

As for the requirements to get it including PvM - I only recently started playing again because of the Elf city.  But when it was released (back when I was still kind of playing), it seemed more like a reward for those who've done all of the doable content out there.  They're expanding it to include PvM, which precludes those of us with physical disabilities and poor network connectivity, but ultimately that's their prerogative.

 

It sucks that they want to do that, in all honesty.  Wouldn't be the first time that Jagex has pulled something like this (at least, in my mind).  It'd be nice if it were added to trimmed requirements, but it's their call.

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Then what? Shovelling away a group specifically because it has disabilities is in my eyes disrespectful. Especially when it might be a valid concern.

Some disabilities does restrict certain content. For example, I found myself unable to do fight caves properly in pre-eoc due to that big importance of hearing the sound to determine the attack that Jad will do. As a near deaf person, I couldn't hear it and hence was almost always defeated without even seeing the healers. Back then, the animations happened after the sound, so for the best reaction, most players relied on the sound.

Only Jad's ranged attack made a sound after it had already registered as a hit. His mage attack made a sound before it fired. So you could just pray ranged at the northeast safespot and by the time he'd attack you (regardless of which attack he'd choose) he would be within your line of sight to pray accordingly.

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Also Jagex seems to be okay with 3rd party clients now (juding by their attitude towards Orion) maybe you want to try out a bot client when doing fight caves so you can see animation states or other debug features to determine your prayer?

That's an extremely dangerous idea.  Do you really want to risk a perm ban on the basis that Jagex might be lenient?  I understand people did it for, say, multilogging back in the day, but botting or doing things to arouse such suspicion almost seems like suicide.

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Also Jagex seems to be okay with 3rd party clients now (juding by their attitude towards Orion) maybe you want to try out a bot client when doing fight caves so you can see animation states or other debug features to determine your prayer?

That's an extremely dangerous idea. Do you really want to risk a perm ban on the basis that Jagex might be lenient? I understand people did it for, say, multilogging back in the day, but botting or doing things to arouse such suspicion almost seems like suicide.
This is why i think jagex should reserve their fan site rankings for client mods. Client creators can have their creations credited and jagex can host them. Clients created for the hearing paired, colorblind, etc. Would be a great project for the staff working on the site, adventures log and comp app.



Maxed [February 14, 2012] | Completionist [October 25, 2012] | Trimmed Completionist [in Progress]

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Also Jagex seems to be okay with 3rd party clients now (juding by their attitude towards Orion) maybe you want to try out a bot client when doing fight caves so you can see animation states or other debug features to determine your prayer?

That's an extremely dangerous idea. Do you really want to risk a perm ban on the basis that Jagex might be lenient? I understand people did it for, say, multilogging back in the day, but botting or doing things to arouse such suspicion almost seems like suicide.
This is why i think jagex should reserve their fan site rankings for client mods. Client creators can have their creations credited and jagex can host them. Clients created for the hearing paired, colorblind, etc. Would be a great project for the staff working on the site, adventures log and comp app.

 

That seems like one of those things that may be well-intentioned but too easy to abuse.  Is someone at Jagex really going to go through all that code and check that nothing illicit is buried in there?

"Fight for what you believe in, and believe in what you're fighting for." Can games be art?

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My blog here if you want to check out my Times articles and other writings! I always appreciate comments/feedback.

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I feel like whether they decide to take disabilities into consideration with the reqs (I still think they should as best they can) they still need to get it all together. Come up with a logical document outlining what types of reqs should be trim and what types should be regular. They're throwing titles wherever atm, bosses are being moved around, and I think this would all work out better if people knew when they were going for a cape what types of challenges they could be expecting in the future. I think an issue is that until pretty recently there seemed to be some internal logic to it all. Recently, the reqs seem semi-random which has lead to a lot of disagreement on which reqs should be where.

 

Just as an example to show that Jagex doesn't really seem sure, this req that they're planning to change had no araxxi in dev documents and it was still introduced as a trim req. Then they release with a more difficult boss and put it on the lower cape. Yes, more reqs will be added, but there should be some consistent logic where players can see exactly why each req went on a certain cape and right now there isn't.

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R.I.P. The olde nite. A legend is gone but not forgotten.

 

a Faction Related Item Sink for Rune Labs. https://[LikelyScam]/m=player-proposal/a=13/c=VcG-Ir5Ijno/view-idea?idea=19

 

 

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As the best in slot item comp is arguably more than just a cosmetic.

For the time it takes to obtain and maintain, yes, it's a cosmetic item.

 

this.  i never understand pvmers who go do all that comping just for the stats so they can come back and make money pvming.  you could have been making 8m/hr the whole time you were at span or whatever

best drops (reasonably accurate/up to date): 1x Elysian Sigil (LS), 1x Arcane Sigil (cs), 4x Armadyl Hilt (solo at 100m, 100m, 50m, and 5m), 2x Saradomin Hilt (solo at 25m), 5x Draconic Visage (34m,1.2m,1.2m) and various cs/ls/ffa Nex splits.
Drygore Drops: 7 Longswords, 3 Maces, 3 Rapiers, 3 Off-hand Rapiers,  5 Off-hand Maces, 3 Off-hand Longswords

ROTS Shields: 12  Seismics: 16

Ascension Crossbows: 6  Spider Legs: 10

Countless Armadyl armour pieces, Saradomin amulets, Dragon Hatchets, and Fremenik Rings.
Range~Herblore~Construction~Constitution~Defence~Farming~Magic~Attack~Prayer~Strength~Summoning~Slayer~Mining~Dungeoneering~Firemaking~Agility~Magic Mastery~Summoning Mastery~Cooking~Smithing~Fletching~Thieving~Hunter~Woodcutting~Fishing~Runecrafting

 

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Here's something I fundamentally don't understand:

If you suck at/don't like PvM, why do you honestly care about Completionist Cape when all Completionist cape is is a Max cape with PvM bonuses?

 

I don't understand, at all, what's causing all the grief. I'm not getting a PhD and I'm not expecting my university to lower their requirements for a PhD because I don't have the abilities to get it. I'm content with a Masters-BA degree. If I don't have the twitch skills and/or "grind" skills to get Completionist, I'll use the Max cape, or Ardougne cape when farming, or Ava's alerter when ranging. I lose absolutely nothing other than some inconsequential e-peen.

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Dragon Drops : 5 Dragon Medium Helmets, 3 Dragon Claws, 3 Dragon platelegs, 2 Dragon plateskirts, 2 Dragon Hatchets, 2 Dragon Spears, 7 pairs of Dragon Boots, 1 Dragon pickaxe, 10 Dragon defenders, 3 Dragon 2h swords, 1 Dragon armour Slice, 1 Dragon armour Lump, 1 Dragon chainbody, 1 Dragon kiteshield, 1 Dragon hasta, 1 Dragon ward, 25 Dragon knives pairs
The Warrior's Blog , Herblore Habitat - Efficient and profitable

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.:Adventurer's Log:.

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