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stonewall337

Recent trend to include PvM into Comp Cape, i.e. Rush of Blood [Split]

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Also Jagex seems to be okay with 3rd party clients now (juding by their attitude towards Orion) maybe you want to try out a bot client when doing fight caves so you can see animation states or other debug features to determine your prayer?

That's an extremely dangerous idea. Do you really want to risk a perm ban on the basis that Jagex might be lenient? I understand people did it for, say, multilogging back in the day, but botting or doing things to arouse such suspicion almost seems like suicide.
This is why i think jagex should reserve their fan site rankings for client mods. Client creators can have their creations credited and jagex can host them. Clients created for the hearing paired, colorblind, etc. Would be a great project for the staff working on the site, adventures log and comp app.

 

That seems like one of those things that may be well-intentioned but too easy to abuse.  Is someone at Jagex really going to go through all that code and check that nothing illicit is buried in there?


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I feel like whether they decide to take disabilities into consideration with the reqs (I still think they should as best they can) they still need to get it all together. Come up with a logical document outlining what types of reqs should be trim and what types should be regular. They're throwing titles wherever atm, bosses are being moved around, and I think this would all work out better if people knew when they were going for a cape what types of challenges they could be expecting in the future. I think an issue is that until pretty recently there seemed to be some internal logic to it all. Recently, the reqs seem semi-random which has lead to a lot of disagreement on which reqs should be where.

 

Just as an example to show that Jagex doesn't really seem sure, this req that they're planning to change had no araxxi in dev documents and it was still introduced as a trim req. Then they release with a more difficult boss and put it on the lower cape. Yes, more reqs will be added, but there should be some consistent logic where players can see exactly why each req went on a certain cape and right now there isn't.

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As the best in slot item comp is arguably more than just a cosmetic.

For the time it takes to obtain and maintain, yes, it's a cosmetic item.

 

this.  i never understand pvmers who go do all that comping just for the stats so they can come back and make money pvming.  you could have been making 8m/hr the whole time you were at span or whatever


best drops (reasonably accurate/up to date): 1x Elysian Sigil (LS), 1x Arcane Sigil (cs), 4x Armadyl Hilt (solo at 100m, 100m, 50m, and 5m), 2x Saradomin Hilt (solo at 25m), 5x Draconic Visage (34m,1.2m,1.2m) and various cs/ls/ffa Nex splits.
Drygore Drops: 7 Longswords, 3 Maces, 3 Rapiers, 3 Off-hand Rapiers,  5 Off-hand Maces, 3 Off-hand Longswords

ROTS Shields: 12  Seismics: 16

Ascension Crossbows: 6  Spider Legs: 10

Countless Armadyl armour pieces, Saradomin amulets, Dragon Hatchets, and Fremenik Rings.
Range~Herblore~Construction~Constitution~Defence~Farming~Magic~Attack~Prayer~Strength~Summoning~Slayer~Mining~Dungeoneering~Firemaking~Agility~Magic Mastery~Summoning Mastery~Cooking~Smithing~Fletching~Thieving~Hunter~Woodcutting~Fishing~Runecrafting

 

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Here's something I fundamentally don't understand:

If you suck at/don't like PvM, why do you honestly care about Completionist Cape when all Completionist cape is is a Max cape with PvM bonuses?

 

I don't understand, at all, what's causing all the grief. I'm not getting a PhD and I'm not expecting my university to lower their requirements for a PhD because I don't have the abilities to get it. I'm content with a Masters-BA degree. If I don't have the twitch skills and/or "grind" skills to get Completionist, I'll use the Max cape, or Ardougne cape when farming, or Ava's alerter when ranging. I lose absolutely nothing other than some inconsequential e-peen.

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and with 120 capes now you can still ed8 just as well

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best drops (reasonably accurate/up to date): 1x Elysian Sigil (LS), 1x Arcane Sigil (cs), 4x Armadyl Hilt (solo at 100m, 100m, 50m, and 5m), 2x Saradomin Hilt (solo at 25m), 5x Draconic Visage (34m,1.2m,1.2m) and various cs/ls/ffa Nex splits.
Drygore Drops: 7 Longswords, 3 Maces, 3 Rapiers, 3 Off-hand Rapiers,  5 Off-hand Maces, 3 Off-hand Longswords

ROTS Shields: 12  Seismics: 16

Ascension Crossbows: 6  Spider Legs: 10

Countless Armadyl armour pieces, Saradomin amulets, Dragon Hatchets, and Fremenik Rings.
Range~Herblore~Construction~Constitution~Defence~Farming~Magic~Attack~Prayer~Strength~Summoning~Slayer~Mining~Dungeoneering~Firemaking~Agility~Magic Mastery~Summoning Mastery~Cooking~Smithing~Fletching~Thieving~Hunter~Woodcutting~Fishing~Runecrafting

 

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Here's something I fundamentally don't understand:

If you suck at/don't like PvM, why do you honestly care about Completionist Cape when all Completionist cape is is a Max cape with PvM bonuses?

 

I don't understand, at all, what's causing all the grief. I'm not getting a PhD and I'm not expecting my university to lower their requirements for a PhD because I don't have the abilities to get it. I'm content with a Masters-BA degree. If I don't have the twitch skills and/or "grind" skills to get Completionist, I'll use the Max cape, or Ardougne cape when farming, or Ava's alerter when ranging. I lose absolutely nothing other than some inconsequential e-peen.

It's more than just stats though.  It's for the "looks" and "prestige" too.  If the difference were purely the PvM stats and otherwise it were indistinguishable from say the Max Cape, no one would go for it.  Wouldn't you agree?


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The whole "team based for a solo achievement" is a valid argument. I would say, however, it fails to hold any value when talking about a completionist achievement in a MMO. Because remember, this isn't a single person game, and some things you need a team to do.

 

 

I wouldn't have had as much of a problem if this stuff was an original requirement. It's that the cape has been out for years, causing it to become a major goal for many people since it is actually achievable, then years into their progress changing it to something that ruins the entire goal for them. It's a classic dangling of a carrot then yanking it away at the very last minute.

 

This has been my wife's goal for almost 2 years, and is the main reason she has been working so hard maxing out everything. To take it away after all that work is very frustrating, especially when the new requirement is something that was never part of the cape (team-based activities). New skilling requirements and such are not an issue as that has been what the cape has always been about.

 

I will agree that it is kind of disingenuous to make the cape available without team based play, and now it requires it. At the same time, it isn't *that* much team play (3 bosses, you could buy a leech or find friends or a mass easily)  .

 

At the same time, like I said before, considering it is a *completionist* cape, I don't find that argument one with much weight. Of course the requirements for completing every are going to change and expand over time.

 

Now, lets address another issue. This is one which is incredibly common in WoW, where people who do entry level raids want higher level gear. The question I always ask is "why?" Outside of looks, if you don't PvM the cape doesn't do much. In fact, I'd say it hurts me as someone who does a ton of PvM more because I actually don't have it and need it, more than someone who doesn't have it and wants it.

 

Simply put, if you can't complete the requirements, for whatever reason, you don't deserve the cape. Maybe it's unfair in some situations. Sadly, life isn't always fair. I'd love to have the cape myself, but I don't. I don't have the time to put in leveling the skills to get it. 

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[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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As the best in slot item comp is arguably more than just a cosmetic.

One which, if you don't PvM, doesn't matter. It's negligable, even a net lose for other activities. 

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Stonewall337.png
[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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B) Having PVM requirements as a part of Comp Cape does not logically imply that Final Boss should also be a part of Comp Cape. Comp Cape is supposed to signify that you engaged with all sorts of content (including PVM content) to a certain extent (just a little bit at least). Final Boss is an extreme requirement meant only for a small minority of hardcore PVMers, it has no place in Comp or even Trimmed (and I say this as someone who is working on Final Boss as we speak).

 

 

Bolded part is where your own reasoning can turn against you.

 

Ignore Reaper and Famous titles and you still have had to engage with all sorts of content, including pvm, to certain extent (just a little bit atleast) to get the cape.

There's the fight caves and kiln, there's sunfreet and the dom tower, there's all the quest bosses, there's the need to kill kbd and qbd for ooak, there's the variants of the gwd bosses in tww etc.

 

Put Reaper and Famous back in sans the contentious mobs (raxi, rago and rots) and you still have had to engage with all sorts of content, including pvm, to a certain extent (just a little bit atleast).

There's dks and kq and kk and gwd and nex and mole and corp and barrows etc.

 

If comp cape only needs to be about engaging with all sorts of content at least a little bit why is it so vital that 3 contentious top-end boss encounters stay on there when even without them there is plenty of pvm content within the reqs?

 

 

No. By 'little bit' I mean you have to survive every boss just once (which is a little bit). Unlike people who PVM regularly, you don't have to kill them dozens of times, you don't have to kill them at maximum efficiency, you don't have to constantly improve your DPS or results, you are just being asked to survive them once. That's reasonable enough, and just a 'little bit' as far as PVM is concerned.

 

To give a comparison, I PVM a fair bit. When I first started learning Araxxor, I spent a whole day of fail kills, didn't get anything. On the second day and rotation change, I got one kill, then a few kills. Then I could only get a few kills or through my sign of death. Then I improved enough to not rely on the Sign. Then I could only do a certain amout of kills each day (8-9) before the enraged would be too much for me to handle. Then I could all rotations for up to 8-9 kills a day. My time also improved. Then I learned how to farm past 150% enraged. You aren't being asked to do any of that. You are being asked to survive each boss in the game just once. Which is a fairly minimal PVM requirement.

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Dang wish I had ASC so I could range. Melee once you get back 5 kills the enrage is really annoying since he both melees and mages, and I don't have auras,scrimshaws, or world event abilities lol.


Stonewall337.png
[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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For those who can't get Comp, 120 capes look better tbh. They should've just left Araxxor in, I didn't know how to do it but I learned for Reaper/Re-learned for this req.


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I find the topic of people with disabilities playing the game is particularly topical to Runescape, since one of the charities when they opened the Well of Goodwill was SpecialEffect, a charity designed around helping the disabled to play games. http://services.runescape.com/m=news/well-of-goodwill

 

If Jagex really wants the disabled to be able to play games, then they shouldn't cut them off from the top content. 

 

There is no contradiction between supporting a charity for disabled people with the aim of helping them, and not watering down your game to cater to people who are a statistical minority and unusual. That's like saying an Engineering Company who supports charities for disabled people had better lower their standards and requirements so people with disabilities can more easily become engineers.

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I find the topic of people with disabilities playing the game is particularly topical to Runescape, since one of the charities when they opened the Well of Goodwill was SpecialEffect, a charity designed around helping the disabled to play games. http://services.runescape.com/m=news/well-of-goodwill

 

If Jagex really wants the disabled to be able to play games, then they shouldn't cut them off from the top content. 

 

There is no contradiction between supporting a charity for disabled people with the aim of helping them, and not watering down your game to cater to people who are a statistical minority and unusual. That's like saying an Engineering Company who supports charities for disable people had better lower their standards and requirements so people with disabilities can more easily become engineers.

 

 

Lives depend upon engineers correctly doing their jobs, none depend upon comp capers being able to do high tier pvm

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I find the topic of people with disabilities playing the game is particularly topical to Runescape, since one of the charities when they opened the Well of Goodwill was SpecialEffect, a charity designed around helping the disabled to play games. http://services.runescape.com/m=news/well-of-goodwill

 

If Jagex really wants the disabled to be able to play games, then they shouldn't cut them off from the top content. 

 

There is no contradiction between supporting a charity for disabled people with the aim of helping them, and not watering down your game to cater to people who are a statistical minority and unusual. That's like saying an Engineering Company who supports charities for disable people had better lower their standards and requirements so people with disabilities can more easily become engineers.

 

 

Lives depend upon engineers correctly doing their jobs, none depend upon comp capers being able to do high tier pvm

 

Our RS lives do :o!

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Stonewall337.png
[hide=Drops]Araxxor Eye x1 Leg pieces x2
GWD: 5000 Addy bar Steam B Staff x3 Z Spear x6 Sara. Hilt x2 Bandos Hilt x2 (LS, Solo)SS x6 (1 LS)
Tormented Demons: Shard x6 Slice x5 Claws x9 Limbs x3
DKS: Archer x21 Warrior x31 Berserker x30 Axe x51[/hide]

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I don't see why they wanted to remove araxxor from the challenge when it was part of the soul reaper requirement

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Araxxor can be done in a duo for the reaper title and if your partner uses provoke all the time, it's basically a +75% rage kill for the killer(and next to no difficulty for the leech). Has to be a solo for the famous title.


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I find the topic of people with disabilities playing the game is particularly topical to Runescape, since one of the charities when they opened the Well of Goodwill was SpecialEffect, a charity designed around helping the disabled to play games. http://services.runescape.com/m=news/well-of-goodwill

 

If Jagex really wants the disabled to be able to play games, then they shouldn't cut them off from the top content. 

 

There is no contradiction between supporting a charity for disabled people with the aim of helping them, and not watering down your game to cater to people who are a statistical minority and unusual. That's like saying an Engineering Company who supports charities for disable people had better lower their standards and requirements so people with disabilities can more easily become engineers.

 

 

Lives depend upon engineers correctly doing their jobs, none depend upon comp capers being able to do high tier pvm

 

 

If you want to go down that route, why don't we just get rid of Special Olympics and simply place people with physical disabilities into the regular Olympics by lowering the standards? Or have some sort of 'adjusted' point/rule system, where for every lap that a disabled person runs, the healthy able-bodied person must run 3 to get the same points? Because we wouldn't want to exclude disabled people from that, would we and the Olympics is just a leisurely activity right, and no lives depend upon it?  At what point do you want to admit that this all just becomes ridiculous? The fact of the matter is, different people are different and have different abilities and needs - one game cannot and should not be designed to cater to everyone, otherwise it would simply set the standard at the lowest common denominator. In any normal game, some people will simply be excluded, and that's just a part of life. That's not Jagex being insensitive to disabled people, or being hypocritical or insincere with regards to their efforts to help the less fortunate, that's just Jagex choosing to have a normal game.

 

Doing what you propose only takes away the achievements of people who aren't disabled, completely alters the game for them, and causes resentment. If you have to alter the whole way your game works just so you can include every single person into the high end, then why not just make a separate game for disabled people, instead of ruining it for the vast majority of players just so you can make it better for a minority of players? That's insanity. Runescape is not a game that was designed for disabled people, it was designed for more or less your average MMORPG player - as such there will be various aspects of the game that disabled people won't be able to partake in and that's that.

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Why even try for completionist cape?

Like every week some BS is added and you loose the cape for god knows how long.

Just look in spock central. 

There is another friggen 32 week balogna statue piece together thing.

It's never ending bs and life is too short to piss it away fretting over a fleeting thing like the completionist cape.

The only thing amazing about having the completionist cape is that don't you roll over and die from living solely in front of your computer while chasing the damn thing.

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Fretting about how other people choose to play the game is equally pointless. Some people love runescape having constant challenges thrown at them may keep them entertained.


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[2:21:46 PM] Baldvin | Leik: these comp reqs are so bad

[2:22:36 PM] Arceus Dark: Time to get...req'd?

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Runescape is not a game that was designed for disabled people, it was designed for more or less your average MMORPG player - as such there will be various aspects of the game that disabled people won't be able to partake in and that's that.

...Eh? Runescape was a very simple and slow-paced game until a couple of years ago. It had a fairly large population of disabled and even older players because of that: you didn't need to do anything twitchy to be competitive. That's the same reason EoC was such a huge issue, even: it turned Runescape into into that kind of MMO when it wasn't one before, and a fair portion of the players that jumped ship then were those that just couldn't keep up.

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...Eh? Runescape was a very simple and slow-paced game until a couple of years ago. It had a fairly large population of disabled and even older players because of that: you didn't need to do anything twitchy to be competitive. That's the same reason EoC was such a huge issue, even: it turned Runescape into into that kind of MMO when it wasn't one before, and a fair portion of the players that jumped ship then were those that just couldn't keep up.

 

Having played the game over 11 years, i can't say that's true at all. RSC was clearly pvp focused and the pvp mechanics were quite advanced(catching etc). Similarly, the start of rs2 was also pvp focused with even more advanced pvp (special attacks etc). Over time, the game has become pvm focused, and the general pvm tactics have generally stayed the same, although there are more varied challenges. To me, because pvm is such a significant part of the game nowadays, it's laughable how simple the comp requirements for it are. And again, remember, comp isn't for everyone.

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Why even try for completionist cape?

Like every week some BS is added and you loose the cape for god knows how long.

Just look in spock central.

There is another friggen 32 week balogna statue piece together thing.

It's never ending bs and life is too short to piss it away fretting over a fleeting thing like the completionist cape.

The only thing amazing about having the completionist cape is that don't you roll over and die from living solely in front of your computer while chasing the damn thing.

You mean why go for completionist trim right?

 

Honestly the only real annoyance is rush of blood in the whole pack. Anyone who has been playing moderately should have thier mask of gloom and gear to run down the cadarn clan members. The drops are great anyways. The only people who might have a legitimate reason to whine are those who cant play enough or are noxpwasters (maybe?)




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Both the "Slayer Master" and "The Famous" titles were no trouble...

 

Slayer Master, I used warpriest and c staff along with a darklight switch for TD's. I brought a crapton of summ potions to spam the steel titan spec. It's honestly a breeze, in my 20 waves 3 of them were TD's and 1 of them was glacor. It's honestly not too hard.

 

The Famous is even more of a joke, I've killed Araxxor before so there shouldn't be a problem killing him again. The other 9 bosses aren't even worth mentioning.

 

It all comes down to whether or not you're going to put in the effort to achieve your goals.

 

(Those 8 [bleep]ing dark beast tasks tho >_>)


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It all comes down to whether or not you're going to put in the effort to achieve your goals.

 

...

 

Please, 'learning' to kill a boss is not something worthy of "put in the effort to achieve your goals." The people who are complaining about this requirement (of which I am not one) have no problem with putting effort in - they've already obtained the comp cape several times with the traditional requirements, which required far more effort than a little rs 'pvm'. Most of these people are complaining about the nature of these latest reqs, which are dissimilar to what the comp cape used to stand for.

 

To be frank, those people have a stake in this discussion - do you? If not, maybe you should think twice before putting them down by suggesting they are not willing to put the effort in.

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