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29 September 2014 - Patch Week & Pure resets


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#61
stonewall337
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I, and a few others, had a chat with Chris L today. Apparently he still doesn't seem to understand that there's something wrong when t90 shields are like 5M a piece, and cheaper than t70 shields. Or why this isn't exactly a great incentive to do RoTS. He just brushed it off, and was all like "well, t90 shields are still useful!". How clueless can you get? Instead of buffing up the shields so that they might increase in value and people might be more inclined to do RoTS, or even some of the proposed changes in the EoC/Legacy Beta for T90 shields (that were suddenly dropped), they have to take the most backwards approach and just tweak the fight instead. Why couldn't they have done both?

Wait, 5m a pop? they degrade to dust dont they?

 

 

t90 shields can be repaired.


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#62
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I, and a few others, had a chat with Chris L today. Apparently he still doesn't seem to understand that there's something wrong when t90 shields are like 5M a piece, and cheaper than t70 shields. Or why this isn't exactly a great incentive to do RoTS. He just brushed it off, and was all like "well, t90 shields are still useful!". How clueless can you get? Instead of buffing up the shields so that they might increase in value and people might be more inclined to do RoTS, or even some of the proposed changes in the EoC/Legacy Beta for T90 shields (that were suddenly dropped), they have to take the most backwards approach and just tweak the fight instead. Why couldn't they have done both?

I can't help but think of it in D&D terms: you're comparing a shield with an okay defense bonus to a shield with a smaller defense bonus and damage reduction... when you're fighting an enemy that's probably going to hit you anyway. Am I off base, there?

 

 

Well, one of the things EoC did was that it made most mob monsters very very easy (some people derisively call it 'Ease of Combat'). Even at lower levels you can easily kill most slayer monsters without ever needing a shield, just about all of them in fact. Prior to EoC, I can recall using my DFS, even as a high level, on some stuff. So on most normal monsters, you don't need a shield at all (even my lower level IRL friends whom I have given shields/gear to, don't ever use them for slayer or any sort of training, even as they went from low levels to roughly about 90+ slayer/120+ combat). The only place you need shields for are if you're tanking monsters that deal a lot of damage (such as Vorago), and there, damage reduction matters a lot. So in the few situations you need a shield for, the 30% damage reduction of the T70 shields is very significant, and blows away the armour rating of the T90 shields. So it's warped.

 

 

one rots shield is good for one thing lol... merciless for rago base tanks.

 

Yup, and even quite a few base tanks prefer Arcane, despite the better Res from Merciless.

 

 

 

I, and a few others, had a chat with Chris L today. Apparently he still doesn't seem to understand that there's something wrong when t90 shields are like 5M a piece, and cheaper than t70 shields. Or why this isn't exactly a great incentive to do RoTS. He just brushed it off, and was all like "well, t90 shields are still useful!". How clueless can you get? Instead of buffing up the shields so that they might increase in value and people might be more inclined to do RoTS, or even some of the proposed changes in the EoC/Legacy Beta for T90 shields (that were suddenly dropped), they have to take the most backwards approach and just tweak the fight instead. Why couldn't they have done both?

Wait, 5m a pop? they degrade to dust dont they?

 

 

Nope, they don't degrade to dust.



#63
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Shields are always going to be a hard sell when everyone wants to hit bigger numbers.  Wasn't that the point of multiplying everything by ten in the first place?


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#64
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Shields are always going to be a hard sell when everyone wants to hit bigger numbers.  Wasn't that the point of multiplying everything by ten in the first place?

 

Not quite. It's not as simple as everyone loving to hit bigger numbers. It's an objective fact that in most situations in Runescape, shields are completely unnecessary, and that using dual weilding or just DPS stuff will get you faster, more efficient kills, and you will take way less damage. Why would anyone, or should anyone, use shields if they are in actuality worse? Obvious solution: make shields more useful.



#65
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The casual noob player may be like big number r sexy amg derp derp.

 

But anyone with an iota of sense cares about survival not *just* big numbers.

And in that context shields are all but useless, aside from a few niche bossing tank roles you don't need a shield to survive anywhere to the extent that using a shield will actually make you take more damage because the small def bonus does not lower damage taken enough to offset the longer kills caused by losing 50% of your damage.

 

Its sort of like monster A in a fight with dual or 2h will hit you 4 times for ~500 dmg each. 2k damage per fight.

Monster a using a shield will only hit you for ~400 dmg a time, but you lost 50% dps making the fight 50% longer so it now hits you 6 times for 2.4k dmg per fight.

That extra defence just made you take 400 more damage per kill whilst also slowing you down.


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#66
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Off weapons are only like 25% of the damage in legacy mode.

Shields are good if you can't use a two-hander.

I only use my drygore mace on quest bosses.

I'm going to by a divine shield once the prices stabilize a bit.

Definitely better than dual wielding against anything tough.


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#67
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Introducing duel wielding in the first place was just a terrible mistake. It's a stupid idea, makes no physical sense (wielding two maces or two longswords simultaneously? it can't be done, at least not well), and unbalanced the game by essentially obsoleting shields. Defenders were a much better balance.


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#68
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It was pretty balanced in really early Beta, when shields accounted for almost 50% of your total armour value, as opposed to the less than 20% now.

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#69
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I still stand by that i think jagex should do more types of shields like they do weapons.



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#70
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#71
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Shields only useful for wilderness tanking large FI's now. :).


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#72
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yay void is fixed I can play again

 

shields have always been only useful for pvp :)


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#73
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So how has the shadow realm mechanic been changed?

 

 

 

I did some more rots today. When you get shadow realm'd everyone on both sides goes in for the remainder of the kill. All of the brother's *SPECIAL* attacks do extra damage (double I think, but not sure). Bombs and spins appear to do normal damage. Basically, if you get a spear in you, you are going to die if you don't get it out in 5 seconds. Wall jumps do about 4k damage, and you take constant 500s when pounded in to the ground.

 

 

At the start of the kill, there is one brother that says "You dare to disturb the shadow!" which will be seen in your chat box. This is the only brother that can shadow you, so you can choose to focus him in order prevent getting shadowed. 


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#74
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#75
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Pre-EoC; you didn't have anything to put in your off-hand other than some defenders and that water-book thing for 1 handed spellcasting things.

Shields were the default for a long LONG time, even over most 2h weapons since their damage didn't offset their lack of speed.

These days, 2h and dualwield has been balanced (roughly) but the DPS that you lack isn't made up by the defensive abilities and bonuses that a shield (or something stupid like it, such as the shieldbow) provides.



Fortunately, I have it on good authority that they're seriously considering implementing a standard damage reduction for all shields above a certain level that increases the higher the levels go, and that this damage reduction is supposedly stacking with the one they're thinking of implementing with your defense level.

 

All this should come with an update designed to make your ranged, magic and strength levels have a much more significant impact on the damage you do, meaning it's not just who has the highest level weaponry anymore!


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#76
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I feel like Jagex missed an opportunity to make shields somewhat relevant again with Legacy. In my opinion they shouldn't have included dual wielding in legacy (something many Legacy players are against in the first place) and instead should have made shields give their old strength/attack bonuses and such.

But oh well, rip shields.


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#77
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yeah and one handed wielding, I miss my F2p switching and bridding is not possible due to accuracy losses when you mixmatch now... pretty annoying, I don't know how that translates to Legacy.

 

Owell, going in with one defence! and yay bxp trading ;'D so much


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#78
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When we step from a real life setting to a game setting, shields become far less desirable. Without the top priority being survival, offense dominates because you no longer have to worry about the penalties of being hit. Even if shields were buffed, the primary focus would still be to maximize kills per hour, and that won't change unless death becomes a serious concern.


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#79
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Shields are always going to be a hard sell when everyone wants to hit bigger numbers.  Wasn't that the point of multiplying everything by ten in the first place?


I think the main point of multiplying everything by 10 was actually to make life a bit easier on newbs who start with only 10hp. Multiplying by 10 means you can have enemies that deal what would've been tenths of damage, letting combat at such low levels last longer and be less risky.

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#80
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I feel like Jagex missed an opportunity to make shields somewhat relevant again with Legacy. In my opinion they shouldn't have included dual wielding in legacy (something many Legacy players are against in the first place) and instead should have made shields give their old strength/attack bonuses and such.

But oh well, rip shields.

 

Well in the EoC-Legacy beta, they had proposed abilities for shields based on tiers, which were suddenly dropped.






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