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Boss Pets: a Ninja Update


Leik

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A bit overdone if you ask me

 

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At least you can't miss it

 

Let's go to world 7 together and test that theory!

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You mean World 77... ?

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A bit overdone if you ask me

 

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At least you can't miss it

 

Overdone? Perhaps. But given how many keys were missed by "high level" teams on the way to 200m (rip days before sinkholes/challengeering), perhaps not.

 

[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

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Apparently, according to Mod Ryan, the threshold for boss pets is capped at 10:

 

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Why? Jagex has always had a pathological obsession with RNG, but what is the purpose of this?

First the idea for boss pets was a guaranteed pet once you met the threshold (which would actually reward effort). Then they scrapped that. Now, there is this threshold system, but it's capped, so no matter how many kills you do, there is still a chance you could never get the pet. I thought the whole purpose of the threshold system was that, eventually if you keep killing the boss, your thresholds will keep reducing your rates and eventually the chance will reduce to 1/1, but apparently not. Now it's just some wild goose chase.

Mod Ryan just hates the idea of rewarding people for effort, skill, dedication or anything of that sort. He'd just leave it all to the RNG.

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Basically, Mod Ryan is a hardcore PvM'er, and whenever other hardcore PvM'ers say anything he is persuaded by them to change it to suit them because its already his main mindset. Its happened over several updates. He's out of touch with any players except the hardcore PvM'ers because he refuses to listen.

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Perhaps the pets are meant for hardcore PvM'ers who enjoy the process, and not people who PvM "merely" for the reward items/cosmetics/titles.

 

Except if you follow the development of them, it started out much more accessible. Originally the plans were:

 

"You have a chance of obtaining the pet as a rare drop from the relevant boss.

It looks like a large amount of people like RNG and they would like to see the pets introduced at a rare rate. This will allow the pets to stay prestigious and rare as they will not easily be obtained.

 

You can obtain the pet after reaching a specific amount of kills on the relevant boss assuming you have not already obtained it.

On the flip side of this there are a large amount of players who dislike RNG as they feel it's unfair that they may have killed a boss numerous times already and not received a rare drop; Vitalis from Vorago is a good example. This will allow players who have dedicated a lot of time to killing the boss to still be rewarded at the end of it. Something to bare in mind is that even though this will be a 100% guaranteed drop, the target kills required will be extremely high.

 

You can purchase any of the pets from Deaths store for a large amount of reaper points.

There are some bosses in RuneScape that require a group to kill and there are a large amount of players who dislike group bossing. Adding the ability to purchase these will allow these players to still obtain the pets from the bosses that require a group. These will of course be very expensive as the aim would be that players do not use the store to purchase pets unless they really need to. As a rough guideline, we're talking at least 2x or maybe even 3x the price of a Hydrix."

 

 

 

However, the hardcore PvM'ers gradually eroded away the ability to get them in anyway besides having the best dps on the kill.

R.I.P. The olde nite. A legend is gone but not forgotten.

 

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And so they ultimately implemented the middle ground solution which is a rising threshold, which makes the pets generally more accessible than a non-scaling RNG system would.

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Middle ground wouldn't have required you have the best dps in the group in order to get the drop. Also wouldn't have removed the shop option that would have still taken a lot of work. The only ones they ended up benefiting were specifically the hard core pvm'ers and removing them from others. 

 

There were plenty of middle ground solutions in the thread to keep them still accessible. Including requiring them to be bought from the shop in ascending order so that the ones like nex weren't easy to get, or removing the best dps requirement.

R.I.P. The olde nite. A legend is gone but not forgotten.

 

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The only group bosses with new pets are the Kalphite King and arguably Nex. That's not a big deal when there are over 20 other pets with bosses that you can solo for eternity. While the update was shaped in a way to be mostly aimed at the hardcore PvM'ers, they've still gone and thrown a bone to the "regular" PvM'ers with threshold scaling. It's not a problem at all when you consider that they're just cosmetics, simialr to other prestige drops like champion scrolls or Penny.

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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I'm still not entirely sure why they removed the shop option, considering... you know, it's bought with points that you get by killing bosses. If anything, it makes more sense to scrap the random drop angle and just sell the pets exclusively through the Boss Slayer shop, if the goal is to show that you've killed a metric shitload of bosses.

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When you look at how it was formed, its clear they didn't throw a bone to non-harcore as much as stripped out all the support that was there for non-hardcore pvm.

 

Individually it would seem like nothing, however considering that Hardcore PvM is already the most rewarded part of the game, piling on more was completely unnecessary. They don't even try to make skilling more profitable really. But they continuously bring out updates to make combat more rewarding.

 

Also, combined with Ryan's previous comments about how people that don't do High Level PvM aren't deserving, its problematic. I feel like Ninja team which is supposed to be focused on making the game better and fixing things shouldn't be so clearly biased towards one specific subset. Move Ryan to another team or something and put a more neutral J Mod on the team.

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R.I.P. The olde nite. A legend is gone but not forgotten.

 

a Faction Related Item Sink for Rune Labs. https://[LikelyScam]/m=player-proposal/a=13/c=VcG-Ir5Ijno/view-idea?idea=19

 

 

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The Ninja team is still focused on projects and fixes that improve the general game experience and quality. Just look at this week's patch notes, or any of the patch notes over the last year.

 

In addition to their general improvements, they also produce projects much like the Dukes, Team 1, Scrum etc. It just happens to be that the projects they work on are generally geared towards the higher-end of the game (120 capes, expert capes, boss slayer, boss pets).

 

There's nothing wrong with this model as long as they keep making the small changes and fixes, which was what the Ninja team was originally formed for. If you're complaining about the Ninja team not working on a project to make skilling more rewarding, the blame could go on any other group including the Dukes and whoever else devs at Jagex.

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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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Individually it would seem like nothing, however considering that Hardcore PvM is already the most rewarded part of the game, piling on more was completely unnecessary. They don't even try to make skilling more profitable really. But they continuously bring out updates to make combat more rewarding.

Quite the opposite, really, considering the elf thieving nerf.

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The Ninja team is still focused on projects and fixes that improve the general game experience and quality. Just look at this week's patch notes, or any of the patch notes over the last year.

 

In addition to their general improvements, they also produce projects much like the Dukes, Team 1, Scrum etc. It just happens to be that the projects they work on are generally geared towards the higher-end of the game (120 capes, expert capes, boss slayer, boss pets).

 

There's nothing wrong with this model as long as they keep making the small changes and fixes, which was what the Ninja team was originally formed for. If you're complaining about the Ninja team not working on a project to make skilling more rewarding, the blame could go on any other group including the Dukes and whoever else devs at Jagex.

 

A member of a team thats supposed to be working on fixing the game as a whole should not be so clearly biased towards one specific group.

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R.I.P. The olde nite. A legend is gone but not forgotten.

 

a Faction Related Item Sink for Rune Labs. https://[LikelyScam]/m=player-proposal/a=13/c=VcG-Ir5Ijno/view-idea?idea=19

 

 

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The threshold system does come off as a bit of a half-assed kick in the teeth compared to what was originally on the table regarding the pets accessibility.

 

I mean a max of 10 out of xxxxx but with increments happening at 500 kills.

 

I mean like in this very example you've gotta log 10,000 kills to even hit that top rate and that top rate still isn't all that great because of the cap.

Even most hardcore pvmers probably don't have anywhere close to 10k kills in most cases.

 

It sort of feels, to me, like a 'we want to pander to the hardcore pvm crowd but we need to do SOMETHING to appease the non-hardcore pvmers since we already stripped out 99% of what was there to make this accessible to them'

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Perhaps the pets are meant for hardcore PvM'ers who enjoy the process, and not people who PvM "merely" for the reward items/cosmetics/titles.

 

 

And so they ultimately implemented the middle ground solution which is a rising threshold, which makes the pets generally more accessible than a non-scaling RNG system would.

 

 

I agree to an extent. I am a 'hardcore' PVM'er, and so are most of my friends. The only problem is that a lot of these bosses are obsolete, with meh drops, horrible experience and boring fights, and we have done them a bazillion times in the past before SR. Now if these bosses weren't obsolete, I'd say, well, I will camp the pet, and even though it's not guaranteed, at least I am making decent GP, and the fight is fun and what not. But because these bosses are obsolete, the fact that it's not guaranteed ever is just a slap in the face. It's annoying to know that I could in the end walk away with very little.

 

Case in point, God Wars and QBD. I have done both a bazillion times in the past, but of course their stupid counter was only introduced quite recently. So most of the kills that I have documented in my personal drop logs aren't counted.

 

Same with Kiln. Myself and many people I know are done with Final Boss. It should simply be guaranteed at this point.

 

I don't think most people in the high level community like their current threshold model. If polled, I am sure a substantial percentage of the community would prefer their initial model, with high thresholds, but guaranteed pet drops once you met the threshold. Most high level PVM'ers scoff at people who have low kills and get pets out of sheer luck, and tend to respect those who are skilled, and got the pets with persistent effort. Even hardcore PVM'ers have a disdain for a system where lucky scrubs with minimal skill and effort get the rarest stuff, and others don't. For example, I know someone with over 2K Araxxor kills (everyone in my clan is rooting for this person to finally get the pet, but no luck so far) who still hasn't gotten that damn pet, and I know several people who got their Araxxyte pets at under 200 kills, and a few who got it under 100 kills. I can't think of any Hardcore PvM'ers who approve of outcomes like that.

 

Another anecdotal story. Someone in my clan has over 6,000 Armadyl kills with no pet (he's done a few hundred since yesterday), while I have personally seen a few people with God Wars Pets with under 100 total kills for that boss. Again, that's not the sort of thing hardcore PVM'ers like. Boss Pets are certainly designed for the hardcore PVMing community, but it certainly doesn't reward them.

 

I am pretty sure, they just pushed this current model on a whim, and it isn't really that popular. Only a minority of people and some HLF trolls are happy with the current model, I'd say. Hardcore PVM'ers like RNG, that's certainly true. But they don't like when it generates absurd outcomes, and I think most would have approved of a system that rewarded hardcore pvm'ers for their effort with some fail-safe mechanisms. The Ninja team isn't wrong to pursue this update, but they are wrong, in my view, with how they did it.

 

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@ ALG The option to buy the pets with SR points was a separate thing, and of course, that was very unpopular with the PVM'ing community.

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Seeing these comments, wouldn't it be better to keep this system but also make it a guaranteed drop after an insane amount of kills for the unlucky ones (like the few k they originally planned?)

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Seeing these comments, wouldn't it be better to keep this system but also make it a guaranteed drop after an insane amount of kills for the unlucky ones (like the few k they originally planned?)

 

That would be the right thing to do, and would actually reward hardcore PVM'ers. Hell, I'd even be in favour of minimum thresholds. What you're proposing was the original plan. Then, Mod Ryan randomly decided, on the basis of no evidence whatsoever, that it was an unpopular thing, and changed it.

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who cares if you can't override  your yak/nihil/clava anyways.  there's pretty much no situation where you don't want a follower that isn't a boss pet.

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best drops (reasonably accurate/up to date): 1x Elysian Sigil (LS), 1x Arcane Sigil (cs), 4x Armadyl Hilt (solo at 100m, 100m, 50m, and 5m), 2x Saradomin Hilt (solo at 25m), 5x Draconic Visage (34m,1.2m,1.2m) and various cs/ls/ffa Nex splits.
Drygore Drops: 7 Longswords, 3 Maces, 3 Rapiers, 3 Off-hand Rapiers,  5 Off-hand Maces, 3 Off-hand Longswords

ROTS Shields: 12  Seismics: 16

Ascension Crossbows: 6  Spider Legs: 10

Countless Armadyl armour pieces, Saradomin amulets, Dragon Hatchets, and Fremenik Rings.
Range~Herblore~Construction~Constitution~Defence~Farming~Magic~Attack~Prayer~Strength~Summoning~Slayer~Mining~Dungeoneering~Firemaking~Agility~Magic Mastery~Summoning Mastery~Cooking~Smithing~Fletching~Thieving~Hunter~Woodcutting~Fishing~Runecrafting

 

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Personally I'd rather have minimum thresholds/kill counts rather than a guaranteed drop after x kills. Both would be great though. Really annoys me when I see a player kill a boss once on a whim at 90 combat and get the drop. More annoying than killing KQ 5k times. Then again I've never been unlucky enough to have to kill a boss that many times that I wanted a pet for.

 

As an example, a friend of mine on OSRS has killed kq 7k times now trying for pet. That's ridiculous. And that's OSRS where you do 1-2 kills/trip. At least it's fairly profitable there. I can't even remember how many players I've personally seen get a corp pet after 10 or less boss kills too. When a player gets a rare drop that fast it's great because the whole team can share it. If it's a pet... good thing it's the internet or you may get your ass kicked lol.

 

Overall, I do agree there should be a way to 100% get the pet. If that's buying it or guaranteed after 5k kills or some other way, idc. This isn't a 500m drop that would cause economic havoc. It should be extremely rare, yet not overbearing.

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