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[9-2-15] Ninja Update – Responsive Combat

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#61
Arceus
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wait how is 5k cw games any more "oh come on" than insane final boss?

 

 

Imagine if the CW req was "Do Castle Wars games until I say you can stop. You will probably get this message around 5,000 games, but you could get it after your first or 10,000th game." People who really wanted trim would be furious.

 

But I thought there was some support for putting Hybrid armor as a requirement instead and isn't that more or less the same thing? <_<


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#62
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My hate against 'luck' is anything but blind. I consciously hate a system that does not reward effort or skill.
 
As for the rest of your post, lol. "It's a 1/5K chance, you just need to go and get it, man". I wonder if you also go to people and tell them "You just go to the lottery store and win it...."

Again, if you hate the basics of the game so much, why play it? It will not change no matter how much you rant.
Stop blowing things out of proportion with your lottery example but if that's what you are trying to do, then buy half of all the tickets and pray to rngsus. 50/50 chance to win, even better than getting Vitalis!

 

 

Nope. I don't accept the "if you don't like it stop playing" mentality. I can continue to hate that aspect of the game and still play, and still ask that it be changed. Hell, thresholds were recently added to the game, and they are a step away from RNG (thresholds are an anti-RNG mechanic). A few years ago that would have been unthinkable, but Jagex did do it. Their original idea for boss pets was a guaranteed pet threshold system (so going back to the QBD pet, it has a rate of 1/2500 - their original plan was that at 2,500 kills, you'd be guaranteed to get the the pet), but they changed it at the last minute. So the sort of system that I like was actually something Jagex considered, and was very close to implementing at one point.

 

And who says it won't change? Plenty of things have been changed because of popular demand in RS. They said flat out that they wouldn't do boss pet overrides, and kept to that line for 2 months, and people kept on asking that they do it (I was one such person, and I personally asked J Mods to do it). Well, what do you know? A few days ago a J Mod said they are now working on boss pet overrides. Never say never.

 

I am not blowing anything out of proportion. The lottery example is 100% analogous to this. Drops in Runescape literally work like a lottery. It's just that most drops are common enough that you can typically get them in a reasonable time. Rare drops such as Vitalis are a different story though, and they literally work like a lottery. Hell, I think there are lotteries in real life with odds better than 1/5000. So I will keep using that example, no matter how much it annoys you. If you don't think the lottery example is analogous, then you're not playing the same game as the rest of us.



#63
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Thing is, it's not a popular demand. ;)

As for the don't like don't play, I don't accept it either for most cases but when it comes to very basics of the games fundamental mechanics it's different. Last time a fundamental change like that happened(EOC duh) a huge amount of players quit, I don't think Jagex is going to repeat the same mistake.

1/5000 IS common enough. Maybe kill goblins for a 1/10 drop chance of goblin mail if you think this is too much for you. There are options!

#64
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So I got on and tried it.
Why did they call this responsive combat again?

#65
Yoko Kurama
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Thing is, it's not a popular demand. ;)

As for the don't like don't play, I don't accept it either for most cases but when it comes to very basics of the games fundamental mechanics it's different. Last time a fundamental change like that happened(EOC duh) a huge amount of players quit, I don't think Jagex is going to repeat the same mistake.

1/5000 IS common enough. Maybe kill goblins for a 1/10 drop chance of goblin mail if you think this is too much for you. There are options!

 

As for popular demand, there's a significant amount of people in the hardcore PVM community who hate RNG with a passion, and they particularly hate seeing "X person has [insert single digit] kills for Y pet" happening. Don't think I'd be alone on that one.

 

I don't think they will change Final boss Gold, or Vitalis - and I don't personally care enough about either. They can leave it as is, just like Castle Wars and Trim. It's too late to change anything on that now. I won't be going for Final Boss Gold - I can live without that, but I do take objection to any assertion that this is for hardcore PVM'ers - it isn't, it's for lucky people, which is what my original complaint was. I don't actually care that the Final Boss Gold exists.

 

I do want them to implement thresholds/guaranteed thresholds for all future pets and Araxxor, though.

 

"1/5000 rate is common enough" - At Vorago? Lol.



#66
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Pets are supposed to be extremely rare stop complaining

 

I like this update, I always thought it was weird that greater demons were cool with me chilling in the forinthry dungeon


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#67
Yoko Kurama
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Pets are supposed to be extremely rare stop complaining

 

I like this update, I always thought it was weird that greater demons were cool with me chilling in the forinthry dungeon

 

Tell that to the dozens of people who have various pets after only a few dozen kills.



#68
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wait how is 5k cw games any more "oh come on" than insane final boss?

 

 

Imagine if the CW req was "Do Castle Wars games until I say you can stop. You will probably get this message around 5,000 games, but you could get it after your first or 10,000th game." People who really wanted trim would be furious.

 

But I thought there was some support for putting Hybrid armor as a requirement instead and isn't that more or less the same thing? <_<

 

Hybrid armor essentially does have a threshold system - you're fairly likely to start getting pieces of it after a certain amount of kills, the amount of which varies within a tolerable range among different players.

I feel like they used to "say" that you could play a single round of a minigame and get a piece, but I've long since come to suspect there's probably a threshold at both ends of the gambit (if I'm using that correctly), meaning there's something of a minimum number of rounds won.


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#69
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Players can now select a faster wave spawn in the Fight Kiln.

 

Omg yay a whole minute or two shaved off of kiln time. Now make multiple waves spawn if you don't kill fast enough to actually make it interesting.

 

edit: also

 

lets make combat better by making it so no one can fight for more then a min without dcing


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#70
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Actually kilns are much faster now.  expect around 18-20 mins vs 30 or so before


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#71
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Hybrid armor essentially does have a threshold system - you're fairly likely to start getting pieces of it after a certain amount of kills, the amount of which varies within a tolerable range among different players.
I feel like they used to "say" that you could play a single round of a minigame and get a piece, but I've long since come to suspect there's probably a threshold at both ends of the gambit (if I'm using that correctly), meaning there's something of a minimum number of rounds won.

Hmm that's an interesting fact, so a certain minimum number of rounds before you can get the armor, and then it does operate on a threshold system. I guess the armor is rare and not that useful so I'd never heard of that information, though I have heard of people obtaining multiple pieces very close together (in time/games).


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#72
Yoko Kurama
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Bull [bleep]ing shit. GF 160+ KPH at TDs. AND ESPECIALLY, now I'll never get 180 KPH.

Bombardment stacking doesn't work and several other methods I successfully did YESTERDAY, now longer work because the attacks hit some tick or ticks faster.

Combat is not any faster. It's just some fairy illusion shit. Oooh, Bombardment shows its damage a few ticks sooner!! NOW I CAN FEEL THE POWER...

TDs were the only thing on RS that entertained me, only because I pushed myself to be better than most anyone else. And I did accomplish that, but now what's the point if the only strategy at TDs is gone?

For every improvement, there is an equal and opposite nerf.

 


This update was not an improvement. It's like saying adding an extra 0 all damage/health values is an improvement. There is no change in DPS, only how 'responsive combat feels' which differs between each player anyway.

 

 

This. I am totally not used to this new 'feel', and so it's very annoying. It's rather annoying having to deal with major changes to the combat system every time Jagex gets the urge every few months. Not saying they shouldn't do any changes, but something like how responsiveness feels shouldn't be changed at this point. It is annoying constantly having to readjust.



#73
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Bull [bleep]ing shit. GF 160+ KPH at TDs. AND ESPECIALLY, now I'll never get 180 KPH.

Bombardment stacking doesn't work and several other methods I successfully did YESTERDAY, now longer work because the attacks hit some tick or ticks faster.

Combat is not any faster. It's just some fairy illusion shit. Oooh, Bombardment shows its damage a few ticks sooner!! NOW I CAN FEEL THE POWER...

TDs were the only thing on RS that entertained me, only because I pushed myself to be better than most anyone else. And I did accomplish that, but now what's the point if the only strategy at TDs is gone?

For every improvement, there is an equal and opposite nerf.

 


This update was not an improvement. It's like saying adding an extra 0 all damage/health values is an improvement. There is no change in DPS, only how 'responsive combat feels' which differs between each player anyway.

 

 

This. I am totally not used to this new 'feel', and so it's very annoying. It's rather annoying having to deal with major changes to the combat system every time Jagex gets the urge every few months. Not saying they shouldn't do any changes, but something like how responsiveness feels shouldn't be changed at this point. It is annoying constantly having to readjust.

 

 

 

I was very excited for this update. I thought this meant that when I click away to stop attacking, my methhead-of-a-runescape-character wouldn't continually try to run back, despite auto-retal off and no abilities queued. Nope. Still tokin' the meth, and still running back in for last hit. Not as easy to double up on thresholds either.

 

I actually liked the delay in Snapshot. It was like "o, one hit? thats it? NOPE"


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#74
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Well we're almost out of EoC beta it seems. 

 

Praying to RNGesus is okay-ish in RS, I have other MMO's with similar odds but then there's twenty other people that have the same chance aswell.

 

Oh yis much fun seeing your noobguildmember get the drop you've been wanting for ages.

 

:shrugs: I just go do something else then, better luck next time


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#75
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Hybrid armor essentially does have a threshold system - you're fairly likely to start getting pieces of it after a certain amount of kills, the amount of which varies within a tolerable range among different players.
I feel like they used to "say" that you could play a single round of a minigame and get a piece, but I've long since come to suspect there's probably a threshold at both ends of the gambit (if I'm using that correctly), meaning there's something of a minimum number of rounds won.

Hmm that's an interesting fact, so a certain minimum number of rounds before you can get the armor, and then it does operate on a threshold system. I guess the armor is rare and not that useful so I'd never heard of that information, though I have heard of people obtaining multiple pieces very close together (in time/games).

 

Once you receive one piece, more are generally quick to follow.


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#76
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Pets are supposed to be extremely rare stop complaining

 

I like this update, I always thought it was weird that greater demons were cool with me chilling in the forinthry dungeon

 

Tell that to the dozens of people who have various pets after only a few dozen kills.

 

 

Err, what? I don't understand your point. Obviously just because a few people get lucky doesn't mean something isn't extremely rare. And I think you know that so I need more explanation to what your point is.


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#77
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I'd like someone to make a Vorago simulator and see how many kills it takes for each person to get a Vitalis. Multiply each attempt by 15 minutes and tell me how many YEARS it took you to get one.

Say you have a 5 man team and get 5 kills per hour, with one of them being your kill. On average you'd need to spend 5000 hours. You tell me how many years that would take you ;)

I'm just curious...would you spend 5000 hours on Runescape...for a title? That's over half a year of continuous play. I guess my definition of realistic is different than yours X D.

#78
Yoko Kurama
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Pets are supposed to be extremely rare stop complaining

 

I like this update, I always thought it was weird that greater demons were cool with me chilling in the forinthry dungeon

 

Tell that to the dozens of people who have various pets after only a few dozen kills.

 

 

Err, what? I don't understand your point. Obviously just because a few people get lucky doesn't mean something isn't extremely rare. And I think you know that so I need more explanation to what your point is.

 

 

It's more than just a few people. In any event, it's stupid - boss pets are prestige items that should be reserved for skilled and dedicated boss hunters, not lucky scrubs. I'd be in favour of minimum thresholds.



#79
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Pets are supposed to be extremely rare stop complaining
 
I like this update, I always thought it was weird that greater demons were cool with me chilling in the forinthry dungeon

 
Tell that to the dozens of people who have various pets after only a few dozen kills.

 
Err, what? I don't understand your point. Obviously just because a few people get lucky doesn't mean something isn't extremely rare. And I think you know that so I need more explanation to what your point is.

 
It's more than just a few people. In any event, it's stupid - boss pets are prestige items that should be reserved for skilled and dedicated boss hunters, not lucky scrubs. I'd be in favour of minimum thresholds.


Exactly this. A simple RNG roll of 0 out of X to get a boss drop is by no means prestige, there must be some sense of dedication required for any pet seeker. Getting a pet should be dedication or skill and not based solely on the RNG.

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#80
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Pets are supposed to be extremely rare stop complaining

 

I like this update, I always thought it was weird that greater demons were cool with me chilling in the forinthry dungeon

 

Tell that to the dozens of people who have various pets after only a few dozen kills.

 

 

Err, what? I don't understand your point. Obviously just because a few people get lucky doesn't mean something isn't extremely rare. And I think you know that so I need more explanation to what your point is.

 

 

It's more than just a few people. In any event, it's stupid - boss pets are prestige items that should be reserved for skilled and dedicated boss hunters, not lucky scrubs. I'd be in favour of minimum thresholds.

 

 

I don't really think you should view them like that. As stated earlier, I view them as random things added into the game. They're supposed to (or I think they should be supposed to) be given to extremely lucky people - including but not inclusive to epic boss fighters. The only reason why they are items of bossing prestige is because the community gives them that value, which in my opinion is not the proper designation. If you see someone with a QBD pet for instance, you should think to yourself "Wow, that guy got pretty lucky while fighting the QBD once" not "Wow, that person is one hell of a QBD killer!"

 

Yes, it is very difficult to attain multiple pets without getting lucky, but the pet's aren't really supposed to be set out and attained. They're just there for unsuspecting killers. If you decide to go out and attain multiple pets, that's fine, but you also need to realize that the pets aren't meant to be perceived that way and you might end up getting unlucky in your pursuit. I will add one thing: Jagex has been slightly going against what I believe to be the purpose of the pets by adding some sort of threshold and also the insane Final Boss title. I suppose this is their way of acknowledging people like you who really want to get a pet. But the reason for the pets being in here in the first place hasn't changed.

 

I will admit that I'm not in the hardcore pvm community like you are. In fact, I would fit under your "scrub" category (thanks for the compliment!). So you may write off this reply if you find me out of touch. However I think your viewpoint is simply a bit misguided when we're talking about the game as a whole.


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