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Miss Lioness

Darklight Upgrade Concerns - Mod Rowley

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Hey all

Since the launch of Dimension of Disaster, we’ve been keeping a close eye on what effect the recent Darklight upgrade has been having on the game. We didn’t (and don’t) want to make a kneejerk nerf, but have been tracking analytics related to increases in demon kills and the subsequent economic impact of an influx of some of their key drops into the economy. 

 

We’ve noted a significant increase in the proportion of kal’gerion demons being killed and a sizeable increase in the trading of certain of their drops. As such, we’d like to do ‘something’ to stem the flow a bit, else it will negatively impact the value of those drops. We also have a little concern with Demon Flash Mobs (recently popular again thanks to their tradeable titles) and, to a lesser degree, abyssal demons.

 

We’re not intending to just reactively wade in with the nerf-hammer, but are intending to make some minor tweaks to decrease this negative impact. We are still intending for the Darklight upgrade to be a useful (and likely still the best) option for fighting demons, and wanted to speak openly about it with you, and to gather ideas for what approach to take for these tweaks.

 

So far, we’re thinking we’ll only target the problem NPCs – definitely kal’gerions, maybe Demon Flash Mobs, and possibly a minor change for abyssal demons – and our likely method will be to decrease Darklight’s accuracy against certain demon types. It’s thematic that the sword is more effective on weaker demons, and that it already doesn’t work on K’ril Tsutsaroth backs this up. We’re also wondering if player stats could come into effect – e.g. the higher your attack stat, the more useful the weapon becomes.

 

Before we do anything, though, we’d like to know your thoughts on these approaches, suggestions for other approaches, and noting of any other demons you think might be causing issues (so we can take a closer look at their recent kill and drop stats). Ideally, we don't want to make a sweeping change here, nor anything that will be difficult to maintain for any demonic NPCs added in the future.

 

QFC: 15-16-261-65604552

 

-----------

 

At the moment making a huuuuge response post about this issue, replying to posts in that thread.


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and it was only yesterday that lego decided to prefer kalg tasks  :(

 

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This is the posts I made:

 

MrKalius "I'd agree to buffing the monsters as they're way too weak for their levels. I can understand how this could take more time though. I'll give this thread a proper read in a moment."

 
That would cause a worse problem with making other weapons less powerful in comparions to before the DL Upgrade.
 
ChiefMichael "Kalg as Slayer Task, before and after".
 
I agree, the Kalgerion Demons had too much defensive power to begin with and indeed caused it to be a nuisance to kill. This update just tipped the scale just enough for it to be no longer a nuisance to do. This should be also considered.
 
Final Feud "I'm hoping that whatever solution comes out of this, it doesn't lead to it becoming less desirable".
 
I am hoping the same and I am glad they at least made this thread to see opinions more clearly and see possible solutions.
 
M Ikel T "You should update it's requirements. Make it an Elite Daemonheim Task Reward to have full impact on Kalgers".
 
Personally I love this kind of thinking, as it is quite out of the box and looks like a good solution. It would make it more balanced if felt OP.
 
Evil Lucario "Adjusting Damage to 2x and scale to demon strength".
 
That would put the damage values back to how it was before the upgrade and would in turn lose lots of its viability again. If you want to put on top of that a damage scale, it becomes useless.
 
Fabled "Maxed Player stats would be what DL is now".
 
I certainly thinks that needs more clarification on how it would work and what would be the direction they would think of.
 
Visitors "AFK Abby demons with magic".
 
That just furthermore proves that there are no realy problems pertaining the Abby Demons.
 
White Eric "I think making the monster harder to kill in some way weather that be increase health or defense without undermining the usfullness of darklight and it's upgraded version".
 
I agree, simply because if numbers would change now on the side of the weapon itself, we would be in the same situation as it was before the Upgrade. If something where done on the side of the monsters, we would end up nerfing a lot of weaponry, and potentially tactics. The latter would automatically make the DL the only suitable option, because the alternatives lost ground while the changes were designed around DL. That is something I am sure would rather not be seen.
 
Siya "But its totally open for debate and at the very least kalgers need some kind of balancing put back in them for lower level players who get darklight and go there."
 
So far it seems evident that balance is in place. But like I said before, it shouldn't be sought in by changing numbers/values as that would probably cause more problems and/or headaches than it is worth. So the solution should be sought in, for example, adding extra requirements to unlock additional power for certain monster(s). Do you agree?
 
Jamesernator "Demon Rage Mode".
 
It is a nice idea, but I think for at least the Kalgers, it would be back at a far more tedious time intensive task. Which is rather avoided by most people and not the solution.
 
M Ikel T "Alternative suggestion: no damage multiple, but a base + strength level multiplied by a value".
 
That could certainly also be a solution, while keeping the current DL effects in tact as much as possible for high leveled players. However, I think that it would make High Leveled Players even more elitist and it is something I do not like to happen.
 
Shadiochao "Decrease droprate when using DL".
 
That is honestly quite odd and idiotic to do. Certainly not a fan of such a mechanic.
 
Singularity "Increasing requirements to justify its power sounds like a good compromise . Touching the weapon itself would be "dangerous territory" so to speak".
 
I hear you!
 
Hyuna "Hand any Drygore mainhand over to Gypsy in Varrock for maximum Darklight efficiency".
 
So you want to make it cost something, to have another item that is a tad bit stronger at only a few specific circumstances? Which at the end would become obesolete sometime, when newer tiers come out?
 
Runic Lord "Another idea is to perhaps keep this as is, but make it so that the enhanced Darklight will degrade and once it reaches 0% charge revert into a weaker Darklight. Forcing players to do something to recharge it".
 
That would not work. We have other items that are quite similar, but are never used due to nuisance of recharging it. Your other idea about changing the special, doesn't work in my eyes as it will not be reliable like it is now. And like I said, it would be mindboggling to change something to that and keep a similar function.
 
iRednubb "If your concern is that the economics surrounding demons is going to suffer as a result of the upgraded darklight, I have two thoughts for you".
 
Quite well said. If one was thinking to protect the economy, at this point that is too late already.
 
Dr Dharok "Adding a protection to demons that can be disabled for a short time akin TDs".
 
Bad idea as it brings back the nuisance of the monsters. The reason it is now used, is due the monsters became less of a nuisance to kill.
 
Neophile "DL works only during slayer tasks".
 
While it is a quite decent solutions, it doesn't work as it is not designed as a slayer weapon and therefor shouldn't be turned into one.
 
Crippler X "DL is scaled based on New Varrock Tasks".
 
I quite like it and it is similar to other solutions I've seen that would add requirements to the weapon without removing any of its functionality.
 
Evil Lucario "Keris on KK".
 
So Keris can be used on a boss monster, but the DL cannot...

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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so we can kiss ever getting weapons that are stronger then drygore but take achievments rather then cash and only work on certain monster types good bye.

 

kalgerion drops already tanked before darklight upgrade came out. Only thing that's really effected are diamonds since everything els is already at alch value. Leave it alone and add more monster specific items, degradeable or taking hours to get to give people who work for them an advantage to people who dont want to waste time.


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Well, I suppose it's a encouraging that they ask politely before they nerf it into oblivion :P.


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Make it work on kril but then have it be degradable requiring silver coins from dod to repair. Thats the one i'm going with. Give a reason to actually play replayable content.

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[spoiler=click you know you wanna]
Me behave? Seriously? As a child I saw Tarzan almost naked, Cinderella arrived home from a party after midnight, Pinocchio told lies, Aladin was a thief, Batman drove over 200 miles an hour, Snow White lived in a house with seven men, Popeye smoked a pipe and had tattoos, Pac man ran around to digital music while eating pills that enhanced his performance, and Shaggy and Scooby were mystery solving hippies who always had the munchies. The fault is not mine! if you had this childhood and loved it put this in your signature!

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Well, if DL get changed, guess those Kal'Gerions go back on the block list, the DL made this task finally something worth doing.

For most other monsters, it provided a healthy increase in dps, especially with the lower mobs as nechryaels and gargoyles.

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in some small way, i feel like every single player deserves the hell that they have built for themselves

 

problem npcs = any mob actually worth killing with a weapon that ranks above level 90

 

while we're at it, let's make keris only work on rats but buff the damage to 10 million

 

hey, remember that cool thing you got? it doesn't do jack now yaaaaaaaaaay

 

tbh, the demon drops in of themselves are not that valuable anyway, so i'm not really sure what the concern here is at all

 

flash mob demon drop rarity already handles that issue (if you thought people are just doing it now because of darklight, that's dumb because you could pick up a tree branch and join a mob quite easily)

 

kalgs are mostly done to collect titles

 

abyssal demons weren't even that strong to begin with and are slayer level gated

 

overall if they want to task gate it fine but darklight's upgrade hasn't really broken the game


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"Economic impact" they seem to forget all the glorious cash dumps they've introduced.

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"Economic impact" they seem to forget all the glorious cash dumps they've introduced.

Not that economy. People will buy less spins when kalgerions are too good exp/h.

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I usually solo the Demon Mobs & DL makes this both a) achievable & b) acceptable use of my time.

 

Kal'gerion Demons were previously a task that I only tolerated for the Titles, in reality the rest of the drops were not worth the effort in killing.

 

In reality, DL is now overpowered, to the extent that it makes the above considerably easier & quicker, however, this is not as big a game changer as Jagex seem to suggest.  Getting a 'free' world at Kal'gerions is considerably easier than trying to do a Ascension Slayer task whereby you have to compete with the 'farmers' just looking for keys - In my opinion this is more of a problem than DL has caused.  Ascension's should be an on task kill only, with the task numbers increased to compensate for this (& key drop frequency also increased !).

 

Abby Demons are still better to be killed with mage to save all the running around.

 

In summary, leave things as they are!!


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My opinions on the suggestion that are given my other players thus far:

 

The solutions I've seen so far are, the top ones are the ones I could see happening and that I agree with:

• Add Elite Daemonheim Task completion to unlock full power for Kalgerion Demons.

• Add Elite New Varrock Task completion to unlock partial power for Kalgerion Demons.

• Make Attack + Strength levels being weighed into the Damage/Accuracy calculation.

• Make Attack + Prayer levels being weighed into the Damage/Accuracy calculation.

• Unlocking more power to a limit (the current potential) by killing a certain number of specific monster. Like the Blisterwood unlocks its full power when 500 Vyrelords have been killed with it.

• Monsters drop items that can be infused with DL to make it have full power versus said monster.

 

These are solutions I've seen so far that I do not agree with happening:

• Buffing defence of monsters.

• Buffing lifepoints of monsters.

• Lower the droprate of certain items.

• Lowering the Accuracy and Damage bonus that DL received.

• Scaling DL strength based on the strength of the demon.

• Demons are enraged when using DL.

• Sacrificing a Drygore Mainhand to unlock full power.

• DL becomes degradeable and needs to be recharged either by completing DoD again or some other way.


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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Wow they actually managed to sift out the non-idiotic solutions instead of a straight up nerf. Props.


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In real life MMO you don't get 99 smithing by making endless bronze daggers.

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Welk, we do are talking about mod Rowley here, he's quite the passionate chap about his projects.

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Wow they actually managed to sift out the non-idiotic solutions instead of a straight up nerf. Props.

 

That is actually my post :)!


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

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Kalgerion drops were already quite valueless (the Demon Slayer stuff in particular - crashed ages ago). The titles have already been made far less prestigious. When I got my 5 titles, that was in the first week of Kalgerions - back then you practically had to mage it with Seismics (and later Nox), and it took significant effort. And those were quite expensive weapons to get too. Now with 1-2 weeks of Darklight, practically everyone and their mothers have camped Kalgerions for the title and has gotten them with ease. This isn't a "ZOMG Jagex devaluing my achievements" rant (though I am slightly displeased that Warmonger is worthless), but rather, I don't think a nerf is really needed at all. The titles are devalued, oh well, time to move on.

 

Most of the suggestions listed under the category that Mod Rowley approves of aren't actually going to nerf Kalgerions. They are just going to add on additional requirements (most of which maxed/comped players such as myself will already have). The few that people like me don't have, we'd get in a day or two at most, then we'd be right back to rekting Kalgers for OP xp.

 

I am happy though they didn't go straight to the nerf to hell route (like they did with Signs of Death).

 

(Cuz Lioness trolled us all).

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Wow they actually managed to sift out the non-idiotic solutions instead of a straight up nerf. Props.

 

That is actually my post :)!

 

Why would you quote it smh


 

[bleep] OFF HOW ARE U SO [bleep]ING LUCKY U PIECE OF [bleep]ING SHIT [bleep] [bleep] [wagon] MUNCHER

 

 

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Wow they actually managed to sift out the non-idiotic solutions instead of a straight up nerf. Props.

 

That is actually my post :)!

 

Why would you quote it smh

 

 

As I first posted it on RSOF.


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?~ Marianne Williamson

 

For account help/issues, please follow this link:

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. If you need further assistance, do not hesitate to PM me or post here.

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Wow they actually managed to sift out the non-idiotic solutions instead of a straight up nerf. Props.

 

That is actually my post :)!

 

 

Oh I thought that was Rowley. You're such a troll.

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The solutions I've seen so far are, the top ones are the ones I could see happening and that I agree with:

• Add Elite Daemonheim Task completion to unlock full power for Kalgerion Demons.

• Add Elite New Varrock Task completion to unlock partial power for Kalgerion Demons.

• Make Attack + Strength levels being weighed into the Damage/Accuracy calculation.

• Make Attack + Prayer levels being weighed into the Damage/Accuracy calculation.

• Unlocking more power to a limit (the current potential) by killing a certain number of specific monster. Like the Blisterwood unlocks its full power when 500 Vyrelords have been killed with it.

• Monsters drop items that can be infused with DL to make it have full power versus said monster.

 

These are solutions I've seen so far that I do not agree with happening:

• Buffing defence of monsters.

• Buffing lifepoints of monsters.

• Lower the droprate of certain items.

• Lowering the Accuracy and Damage bonus that DL received.

• Scaling DL strength based on the strength of the demon.

• Demons are enraged when using DL.

• Sacrificing a Drygore Mainhand to unlock full power.

• DL becomes degradeable and needs to be recharged either by completing DoD again or some other way.

 

 

 

I like the idea of adding in DarkLight on Kalgs as part of a Reward from Elite tasks such as Varrock/Dg.

 

Also I can't help but feel, Darklight is ALWAYS going to be used over Magic now, why not just keep it as it is then Nerf the Xp rates you get?

 

They also said they wanted to change these due to it "Devaluing" the drops from Kalgs:

 

Onyx  - Alch Price already it cannot do any more harm.

Rune Drops - Alch Price/Spring Cleaner

Demon Slayer - Practically Alch value

Kalg Titles - Purely Cosmetic

 

I don't see how any of the major drops could be "Devalued" anymore... Which brings me back to my orignal idea, Nerf Slay per kalg kill, Eddimmus give 880, have 32k lps why not just make them that xp? Would still make them a decent task.


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Maybe because Edimmu have absurdly low Slayer exp for their level? :p One of the main complaints when they got released was the abominable exp for the effort.

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Maybe because Edimmu have absurdly low Slayer exp for their level? :P One of the main complaints when they got released was the abominable exp for the effort.

 

Agreed, Airuts - 800 xp 17k xp, edimmu 32k - 880xp (A boat load of quests needed too) Kalgs - 32k - 1.8k xp (can be used by op weapons, no requirements but 90dg + quests in a sence) Automatons - 20k hp - gives 700?

 

Either way needless to say slayer to hp ratio is majority cabbaged up.


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Rambo, cannot pk call your friends bro :). Wait nevermind none of SAPK/PKS can. Kappa.

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Oh, another thing I forgot: ofcourse prices of Kal'Gerion drops will plummet, because Jagex added 5 insanely rare titles to their drop table. This fact alone pretty much put a nail in the coffin for all the items they drop, regardless from the fact that they are now easier to kill.

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I'll be honest. I appreciate that Jagex is consulting us first, even if the entire thing is a sham and our input holds 0 weight. Makes me think of the time when would just do shit and then go "well... it's already done so there you go." Source: late 2007-2010 ish.

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I don't see how any of the major drops could be "Devalued" anymore... Which brings me back to my orignal idea, Nerf Slay per kalg kill, Eddimmus give 880, have 32k lps why not just make them that xp? Would still make them a decent task.

Because then you punish everyone else who doesn't use Darklight.

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