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World eater armor-How useful is it?

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Mod edit: World eater armor hasn't been released yet and its ability and other stats may change in the future.

 

Being someone who's interested in rs mechanics, I decided to do a comparison of the percentage crit chance that the world eater armor would have to provide for it to be able to compete with other armors.
Robes of subjugation, dragon rider amulet, skillcape, asylum surgeon's gives 161 damage, which goes through a 1.5x multiplier before being added to the final ability damage. Assuming this gear is used with supreme overloads, and that the user has 99 magic, and a level 90 magic weapon, the total ability damage is 2141(may be not be accurate due to rounding), where subjugation and the skillcape takes 1.5x(87+21), which is 162. 162/(2141-162) is around 8.2% extra damage.

When the same is done with virtus:
Virtus+skillcape+sup overloads+asylum surgeon+dragon rider amulet+:9.1%

Superior elite void(+nex boots)+skillcape+sup overloads+asylum surgeon+dragon rider amulet: 9.1%(this is without the accuracy bonus being factored in)

Tectonic armor(+nex boots and celestial gloves)+skillcape+sup overloads+asylum surgeon+dragon rider amulet:10.1%



The above highlighted armor parts are the ones that take up the slots that the world eater armor will take up, and to show the percentage bonus damage the armor adds to final damage.
This is to make clear the trade-offs when it is worn instead of its alternatives.

From rs wiki, we know that damage has a minimum hit of 20%, so the damage of the average non-miss attack ranges from 20% to 100%. Assuming the distribution is even, our average damage would then be (100+20)/2, which is 60%.
critical hits are 95-100%, and therefore non criticals are 20-95%.
The average non crit hit is (95+20)/2 or 57.5% and (95+100)/2 for crits or 97.5%.
Let x and y be the chance of landing a non crit and a crit.
Then 57.5x+97.5y=60(no bonus to crit chance)
and x+y=1

when combined, 40y+57.5=60
and y is therefore 6.25 here

Now, if world eater armour is to be equal to subjugation(+skillcape), it has to give 8.2% extra damage to compensate for lower damage bonuses.

60*1.082 is 64.92

the equation is now
40y+57.5=64.92, which is 18.55%, nearly 3 times 6.25%, meaning to be able to match sub's(+skill cape)offensive capability, the world eater armor has to nearly triple the current chance of landing a critical hit. (hardly likely without multitudes of players with a lack of mathematical knowledge calling it OP, devaluing dps armor and asking for a nerf)

 

And I never knew that sub, sup void, virtus and tectonic were that close together

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These are nice sums and all but kinda meaningless since we do not know exactly how worldeater will work yet.

 

Plus to me most of your comparisons are largely pointless, no-one will ever use hybrid gear over the likes of tectonic or virtus (also lol that you do such high-end setups and then pick a skillcape over the BIS Tokharr-Kal-Mej)

 

Void has some merit, but then no-one expects it to beat void. The warpriest sets are all built around being a good hybrid set for lower-mid ranged players with set effects that make them somewhat useful in the higher end in niche uses. Specifically Sara/Zam and Arma/Band proves quite popular in some pvp situations as that chance to block a hit or have your ability cooldown shortened ups your ability kill the opponent, you see it used quite a bit around minigames for example.

 

Also sums are flawed - for starters how you conjure up the 6.25 makes no sense.

If you take 57.5x+97.5y=60

x+y=1

 

And go to solve for y you go:

97.5y=60-57.5x

y=(60-57.5x)/97.5

And then you get stuck without a value for x in the first place you can't then solve it (outside of applying the old trial and error method). There is no mathematically sound way you can get to 40y+57.5=60 - all you've done is take 57.5 off 97.5 and removed x which in terms of solving a formula makes no sense you've just arbitrarily altered it with no balance or correct method.

Especially since after stating x+y=1 - you then turn around and say y is 6.25, which would imply x is -5.25 so according to your sums we have below 0 chance of hitting a non-crit hit and a 625% chance of hitting a crit hit.

If you actually apply trial and error and conform to the rule of x+y=1, working to 2 decimal places with rounding, there is 2 possible solutions x=0.93 y=0.07 or x=0.94 y=0.06

Morning brain fail didn't twig was meant y=0.0625 not straight up 6.25

 

Plus non-crit hits don't stop at 95% damage anyway, you can do your max hit without critting - crits are just 'special' hits that guarantee you'll hit near your max they are not the only way to hit it.

So really it would be:

60x+97.5y=60

Which btw also only yields two valid results with the method above x=0.99 y=0.01 or x=1 y=0 and since we know you can in fact hit crits y cannot be 0 so we could discard the later of those pairs.

 

Oh and the whole premise of the formula is kinda broken anyways

Adding together average non-crit damage and crit damage multiplied by their respective hit chances would give a weighted average damage certainly, but you can't just assume that weight damage value to be 60 because then you are using contradictory methods in the same formula. The first half is assuming there is a weighted average damage to be calculated, but then the 2nd half you are just ramming in a basic assumed average which is not a value the formula is likely to actually produce.

So in actuality you'd really ought to have 60x+97.5y=z, x+y=1 and z is the weighted average damage

But to even consider solving that you then have to go away and data mine to manually calculate the chance of hitting a crit vs a non-crit and plug them in allowing z to be calculated.


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These are nice sums and all but kinda meaningless since we do not know exactly how worldeater will work yet.

 

Plus to me most of your comparisons are largely pointless, no-one will ever use hybrid gear over the likes of tectonic or virtus (also lol that you do such high-end setups and then pick a skillcape over the BIS Tokharr-Kal-Mej)

 

Void has some merit, but then no-one expects it to beat void. The warpriest sets are all built around being a good hybrid set for lower-mid ranged players with set effects that make them somewhat useful in the higher end in niche uses. Specifically Sara/Zam and Arma/Band proves quite popular in some pvp situations as that chance to block a hit or have your ability cooldown shortened ups your ability kill the opponent, you see it used quite a bit around minigames for example.

 

Also sums are flawed - for starters how you conjure up the 6.25 makes no sense.

If you take 57.5x+97.5y=60

x+y=1

 

And go to solve for y you go:

97.5y=60-57.5x

y=(60-57.5x)/97.5

And then you get stuck without a value for x in the first place you can't then solve it (outside of applying the old trial and error method). There is no mathematically sound way you can get to 40y+57.5=60 - all you've done is take 57.5 off 97.5 and removed x which in terms of solving a formula makes no sense you've just arbitrarily altered it with no balance or correct method.

Especially since after stating x+y=1 - you then turn around and say y is 6.25, which would imply x is -5.25 so according to your sums we have below 0 chance of hitting a non-crit hit and a 625% chance of hitting a crit hit.

If you actually apply trial and error and conform to the rule of x+y=1, working to 2 decimal places with rounding, there is 2 possible solutions x=0.93 y=0.07 or x=0.94 y=0.06

 

Plus non-crit hits don't stop at 95% damage anyway, you can do your max hit without critting - crits are just 'special' hits that guarantee you'll hit near your max they are not the only way to hit it.

So really it would be:

60x+97.5y=60

Which btw also only yields two valid results with the method above x=0.99 y=0.01 or x=1 y=0 and since we know you can in fact hit crits y cannot be 0 so we could discard the later of those pairs.

 

Oh and the whole premise of the formula is kinda broken anyways

Adding together average non-crit damage and crit damage multiplied by their respective hit chances would give a weighted average damage certainly, but you can't just assume that weight damage value to be 60 because then you are using contradictory methods in the same formula. The first half is assuming there is a weighted average damage to be calculated, but then the 2nd half you are just ramming in a basic assumed average which is not a value the formula is likely to actually produce.

So in actuality you'd really ought to have 60x+97.5y=z, x+y=1 and z is the weighted average damage

But to even consider solving that you then have to go away and data mine to manually calculate the chance of hitting a crit vs a non-crit and plug them in allowing z to be calculated.

Here's where the 6.25 came from:

57.5x+97.5y=60

x+y=1

x=(1-y)---->placed back into the first line

57.5(1-y)+97.5y=60

57.5-57.5y+97.5y=60

40y+57.5=60

then 40y=2.5

y=0.0625, or in percentage terms, 6.25

so 0.0625x97.5+0.9375x57.5is indeed 60.

I did also state that the formula was based on the assumption that all values were between 20 and 100 and that it was random, therefore the average would be 60

 

I do know that skillcapes anrent the best in that particular slot for magic, but it was used as an example.

 

And I didn't know you could do max hits without critting O.o Is there some proof of this?(unless its something like combust that cannot crit at all)

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That's still not really correct solving

57.5(1-y)+97.5y=60 does not really expand to 57.5-57.5y+97.5y=60 because you just removed the (1-y) and stuck in another 57.5 without doing anything to balance it out.

 

As evidenced by the fact that inserting 6.25 for y into 57.5(1-y)+97.5y you get an answer of 307.5, not 60.

 

In fact swapping in the y-1 probably makes it more of a headache to solve since you then end up with messy division and what have you to try and isolate y

 

57.5(1-y)/57.5+97.5y/57.5=60*57.5

(1-y)+97.5y/57.5=3450

(1-y)-1+(97.5y/57.5)-1=3451

(97.5y/57.5)-1-y=3451

97.5y/57.5-1=3451+y

97.5y/57.5=3452+y

97.5y=(3452+y)57.5

 

And here my brain gives up this morning as all routes I see just end up going in circles of trapping 1 y in a bracket and never reaching y =...

 

Brain fart train wreck on nonsense


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That's still not really correct solving

57.5(1-y)+97.5y=60 does not really expand to 57.5-57.5y+97.5y=60 because you just removed the (1-y) and stuck in another 57.5 without doing anything to balance it out.

 

As evidenced by the fact that inserting 6.25 for y into 57.5(1-y)+97.5y you get an answer of 307.5, not 60.

0.0625, 6.25 is a percentage.

Here, I'll make it easy for you.

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=57.5x%2B97.5y%3D60%2C+x%2By%3D1

My solution:y=0.0625

 

and your equation:

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=57.5%281-y%29%2F57.5%2B97.5y%2F57.5%3D60*57.5

Your solution:y=4957.94

Seems like you came up with an equation entirely different to mine at the start :/

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Fair play I see the route you went now there, brain fart to an extent as your saying y was 6.25 instead of 0.0625 threw me.

 

But still the later 2 points of my OP about your sums methodology hold true.


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Fair play I see the route you went now there, brain fart to an extent as your saying y was 6.25 instead of 0.0625 threw me.

 

But still the later 2 points of my OP about your sums methodology hold true.

 

So you want me to use optimum mage gear for comparison? I can do that

And what do you think I am to do about the non-critting max hits? I think my formula gives a result relatively close to a true comparison of the armors. I'd welcome a suggestion if you have a better alternative.

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I think the formula I proposed where it actually accounts for non-crits being 20-100% gives a better comparison than arbitrarily knocking 5% off their hit range.

I also think arbitrarily assigned 60% damage as the weighted average than back-calculating hit chances for crit vs non-crit is a flawed methodology for producing any meaningful comparison. As it is making a very big assumption about the bar which must be met to make the gear compete.

 

You could either data mine actual hit chances to develop a genuine average weighted damage or data mine average damage output to develop more accurate hit chances and therefore produce something much more meaningful. Of the options data mining hit chances would be more work but yield the most accurate evaluation, whilst data mining average hits is fairly easy but would not give as much accuracy. As it stands the arbitrary assumption that we, on average, hit 60% damage could be so wildly of par with reality that it renders all calculations pointless. And this would be before we even consider factoring in abilities vs weapon damage, since they are able to exceed 100%

 

I only commented on the cape because it seemed daft that your setups are pretty much all the best in slot or 2nd best in slot, including some pricey/harder to acquire stuff and then you skip out on the fairly easily obtainable best mage cape in game, as well as ignoring the 2nd best mage cape in game in favour of skill capes which have almost no merit in combat setups these days.


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That 60% does not depend on a bar, because it is largely independent of ability damage.What affects it is the minimum damage of abilities.

The 60% is an average of the most commonly used magic abilities' (maximum damage+ minimum damage)/2, then divided by the maximum damage again. Here's an algebraic expression for it, where x represents the maximum ability damage.

(x(max)-x(min))/(2x(max)), where x min is 20% of x max unless it is stated in the ability to not be so.

Using wrack as an example, It usually deals up to 94% damage and its minimum is 20% of 94%, which is 18.8%.
the maximum being 100 of the ability's potential damage and 20% of the maximum should pretty much apply pretty much all abilities, unless stated.
The stated abilities are Omnipower(50% maximum as its minimum damage), combust(53%), wild magic(23%) and tsunami(67%).
Of these abilities, combust and wild magic are regularly used abilities in the average magic bar, and of the 2, only combust has a minimum much higher than 20% of the maximum damage.
If you can suggest the percentage to tweak the 60% to, please do.
ANd oyu actually made me rethink about using a kiln cape instead of my ardy cloak 4 :o
Meanwhile I'll continue with the armor calculations.

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Sub, sup ovls, asylum, drider amulet, TokHaar-kal-mej - 8.9%
Virtus, sup ovls, asylum, drider amulet, TokHaar kal mej-9.8%
Sup void, virtus boots sup ovls, asylum, drider amulet, tokHaar kal mej-9.9%
Tectonic, celestial gloves, virtus boots, sup ovls, asylum, drider amulet, tokhaar kal mej-10.8%
Incredibly hard for world eater armour to reach anything close to even sub. At least not without the complaints of mountains of players who can't do math. :/

 

According to the formula, 

world eater armor will have to raise the critical chance to

a corresponding y value to match the below armors' damage bonus

40y+57.5= 65.34(sub)/65.88(virtus)/65.94(sup void)/66.48(tectonic)

Sub:19.6%/Virtus:20.95%/Sup void:21.1%/Tectonic:22.45%
Sub:313% current crit chance/Virtus:335%current crit chance/Sup void:338%current crit chance/Tectonic:359%current crit chance

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Is this new armour from the upcoming Tuska event?

 

w00tw00t more retrievable armour for PKing


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Is this new armour from the upcoming Tuska event?

 

w00tw00t more retrievable armour for PKing

Like...a few hours to retrieve, but is easier to lose than Gwd armour? Through it's burst damage is likely to be higher

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Moved to D&R as it is more fitting.

Also editted the first post to make it more apparent that this armor isn't available yet and the stats may change.

 

Does anyone know if the abilities for warpriest etc scale down or are not available for their lower tier variants? If not World Eater has the potential to grant accounts with low defence much higher DPS than previously.


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[2:21:46 PM] Baldvin | Leik: these comp reqs are so bad

[2:22:36 PM] Arceus Dark: Time to get...req'd?

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Moved to D&R as it is more fitting.

 

Also editted the first post to make it more apparent that this armor isn't available yet and the stats may change.

 

Does anyone know if the abilities for warpriest etc scale down or are not available for their lower tier variants? If not World Eater has the potential to grant accounts with low defence much higher DPS than previously.

no, the calculations are based on lv 99 magic, and thus world eater will scale with magic level, and not become op for lower levels, unless the crit chance is especially high, but if that is the case it is op for all levels.

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You can have low defense and 99 magic :p


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[2:21:46 PM] Baldvin | Leik: these comp reqs are so bad

[2:22:36 PM] Arceus Dark: Time to get...req'd?

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You can have low defense and 99 magic :P

Now who would ever do that? ;P

 

On a more relevant topic though, the shop is selling 'Tier 1' Tuska armour. Has anyone tested if this freely transforms into the higher tiers? I expect it does, but I'm wanting to make sure - it would be a pain to buy three different times/wait for upgraded versions.


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You can have low defense and 99 magic :P

Now who would ever do that? ;P

 

On a more relevant topic though, the shop is selling 'Tier 1' Tuska armour. Has anyone tested if this freely transforms into the higher tiers? I expect it does, but I'm wanting to make sure - it would be a pain to buy three different times/wait for upgraded versions.

 

After you buy it and equip it it automatically goes up to whatever tier you can wear.

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Excellent, thank you :).


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recent comparison of the tuska boots and nex boots:

Nex-Gives a flat +18 bonus to ability damage (not including multiplicative boosts)

averages out to 10.8 per 100% ability damage of the ability

 

Tuska boots- +1% crit chance

 

Now comes the calculations:

Let x be ability damage, then the average damage of the user when using nex boots become

0.6x+10.8

 

And with tuska boots:

(0.0625(+0.01))(0.975)x + (0.9375(-0.01))(0.575)x

=0.604x

 

If 0.004x=10.8(Virtus), x=2700

If 0.004=9.9(sub), x=2475

If 0.004x=6.3(skeletal), x=1575

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The only use I see for warpriest armours are DKs, basically.


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