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Dev Blog: QP master cape


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#181
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Okay, compromise? Make your little Master Cape and all these asinine tasks for it. But also, make the damned Trimmed Quest Cape we've wanted for years, even before there were Master Capes.

Mmmmmmmmmkkaayyyy?
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#182
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Okay, compromise? Make your little Master Cape and all these asinine tasks for it. But also, make the damned Trimmed Quest Cape we've wanted for years, even before there were Master Capes.

Mmmmmmmmmkkaayyyy?

 

So, you want a Taskmaster Cape so you can trim quest cape? I'd have no issues with them doing that.


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#183
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Okay, compromise? Make your little Master Cape and all these asinine tasks for it. But also, make the damned Trimmed Quest Cape we've wanted for years, even before there were Master Capes.

Mmmmmmmmmkkaayyyy?


So, you want a Taskmaster Cape so you can trim quest cape? I'd have no issues with them doing that.

I don't know why they never released a task master or music cape to trim quest cape. There was talk about it 6-7 years ago but nothing ever came to be

#184
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Okay, compromise? Make your little Master Cape and all these asinine tasks for it. But also, make the damned Trimmed Quest Cape we've wanted for years, even before there were Master Capes.

Mmmmmmmmmkkaayyyy?


So, you want a Taskmaster Cape so you can trim quest cape? I'd have no issues with them doing that.

I don't know why they never released a task master or music cape to trim quest cape. There was talk about it 6-7 years ago but nothing ever came to be

 

 

Yea, both of those sound cool, Would love to see them.


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#185
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Quest cape = all quests

Quest cape (t) = all quests, all tasks

Master quest cape = all quests, all tasks, all post quest activities related to and unlocked via quests


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#186
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Quest cape = all quests

Quest cape (t) = all quests, all tasks

Master quest cape = all quests, all tasks, all post quest activities related to and unlocked via quests

 

J Mods already rejected all tasks on the Quest Mastery Cape, and also added that all Story-Oriented Content must be on there.


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#187
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Quest cape = all quests
Quest cape (t) = all quests, all tasks
Master quest cape = all quests, all tasks, all post quest activities related to and unlocked via quests


J Mods already rejected all tasks on the Quest Mastery Cape, and also added that all Story-Oriented Content must be on there.

Tasks require quests. Therefore they are related and you could argue tasks are post quest rewards bc you get experience and a permanent unlock

#188
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Quest cape = all quests
Quest cape (t) = all quests, all tasks
Master quest cape = all quests, all tasks, all post quest activities related to and unlocked via quests


J Mods already rejected all tasks on the Quest Mastery Cape, and also added that all Story-Oriented Content must be on there.

Tasks require quests. Therefore they are related and you could argue tasks are post quest rewards bc you get experience and a permanent unlock

 

 

They outright said no to tasks. Yes, I could argue that the task system is an extension of the quest system, but its clear the J Mods want to go for a more Story-Oriented route.

 

Honestly, this is probably why they avoided doing anything with Quest Cape for so long and players had to demand it for years. The only thing that absolutely and definitely fits a Quest Cape is the Quests themselves. After that its all about degrees of how close something is and defining what makes up questing. you could say "Quests and Post-Quest Content" but what is Post-Quest Content? You need a Quest to unlock Prifddinas, does that mean that things such as the Ravensworn title is post quest content? Is everything in any area that requires a quest to access it automatically post-quest content? Is the Corporeal Puppy pet post quest content because you need quests in order to kill Corp Beast? Some things will be more closely related than others, but all are debateable.

 

So even Post-Quest Content is a hazy minefield. So they decided to go with things directly involved in or unlocked through Quests, as well as looking at what Quests are. They (meaning Mod Manti, Osborne, and probably some other J Mods)  looked at quests and decided that the only thing really binding all Quests together is that they were all some sort of story-based content. That doesn't mean they're all deep lore, but they all tell some sort of story. So they decided that going above and beyond (which is what Mastery Capes require) for Questing would require finishing or obtaining all Story-Oriented content.

 

You may disagree with this decision, and I understand why you would, but thats the major issue that a more advanced Quest cape was going to bring. Skills are clear cut, you know exactly whats involved in a skill and you get a nice neat number for training it. Get that number to x and you've completely maxed the level for it. Get that number to y and you've went above and beyond and you get the mastery cape. But Quests can't go that route and never could, "Do all Quests" is already on the basic cape, and there are no more Quests you can do beyond that unlike skills where you can keep training. This Cape was always going to be difficult to make since the whole thing had to be based on interpretation, there are no clear cut lines.


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#189
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I would rather see tasks and music being included rather than RNG related lore.

#190
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Quest cape = all quests
Quest cape (t) = all quests, all tasks
Master quest cape = all quests, all tasks, all post quest activities related to and unlocked via quests


J Mods already rejected all tasks on the Quest Mastery Cape, and also added that all Story-Oriented Content must be on there.


Tasks require quests. Therefore they are related and you could argue tasks are post quest rewards bc you get experience and a permanent unlock

 
They outright said no to tasks. Yes, I could argue that the task system is an extension of the quest system, but its clear the J Mods want to go for a more Story-Oriented route.
 
Honestly, this is probably why they avoided doing anything with Quest Cape for so long and players had to demand it for years. The only thing that absolutely and definitely fits a Quest Cape is the Quests themselves. After that its all about degrees of how close something is and defining what makes up questing. you could say "Quests and Post-Quest Content" but what is Post-Quest Content? You need a Quest to unlock Prifddinas, does that mean that things such as the Ravensworn title is post quest content? Is everything in any area that requires a quest to access it automatically post-quest content? Is the Corporeal Puppy pet post quest content because you need quests in order to kill Corp Beast? Some things will be more closely related than others, but all are debateable.
 
So even Post-Quest Content is a hazy minefield. So they decided to go with things directly involved in or unlocked through Quests, as well as looking at what Quests are. They (meaning Mod Manti, Osborne, and probably some other J Mods)  looked at quests and decided that the only thing really binding all Quests together is that they were all some sort of story-based content. That doesn't mean they're all deep lore, but they all tell some sort of story. So they decided that going above and beyond (which is what Mastery Capes require) for Questing would require finishing or obtaining all Story-Oriented content.
 
You may disagree with this decision, and I understand why you would, but thats the major issue that a more advanced Quest cape was going to bring. Skills are clear cut, you know exactly whats involved in a skill and you get a nice neat number for training it. Get that number to x and you've completely maxed the level for it. Get that number to y and you've went above and beyond and you get the mastery cape. But Quests can't go that route and never could, "Do all Quests" is already on the basic cape, and there are no more Quests you can do beyond that unlike skills where you can keep training. This Cape was always going to be difficult to make since the whole thing had to be based on interpretation, there are no clear cut lines.

Sure, it is all fairly subjective, I can tell you though what imo a quest cape shouldn't be, a skill cape, and a boss cape. It will become an "upgraded" version of the dungeoneering cape (117 doesn't differ much from 120) and you need to kill bosses for it too. Honestly, minigames are more like quests than skills or bossing, hence my remark that I liked the first reqs more ;)

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#191
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Quests involve both Bosses and Skills though, so is there any particular reason the requirements shouldn't as well?


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#192
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Honestly, this is probably why they avoided doing anything with Quest Cape for so long and players had to demand it for years. The only thing that absolutely and definitely fits a Quest Cape is the Quests themselves. After that its all about degrees of how close something is and defining what makes up questing. you could say "Quests and Post-Quest Content" but what is Post-Quest Content? You need a Quest to unlock Prifddinas, does that mean that things such as the Ravensworn title is post quest content? Is everything in any area that requires a quest to access it automatically post-quest content? Is the Corporeal Puppy pet post quest content because you need quests in order to kill Corp Beast? Some things will be more closely related than others, but all are debateable.

Part of a problem is that they waited so long to do it, I think. It might have changed the direction of a lot of post-quest content if it was made with the trimmed quest cape in mind instead of the trimmed comp cape, or maybe the more 'rigorous' or strange requirements would have just remained trim requirements (Livid/Chompies) or easter eggs (half the Elf City titles/Annihilator).

 

Pretty much everything they've proposed has fit the guidelines, but they're so broad that it's basically just become the trim cape without the levels/minigames. Can the guidelines be changed to fit what the community thinks the 'master' quest cape should be?



#193
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Honestly, this is probably why they avoided doing anything with Quest Cape for so long and players had to demand it for years. The only thing that absolutely and definitely fits a Quest Cape is the Quests themselves. After that its all about degrees of how close something is and defining what makes up questing. you could say "Quests and Post-Quest Content" but what is Post-Quest Content? You need a Quest to unlock Prifddinas, does that mean that things such as the Ravensworn title is post quest content? Is everything in any area that requires a quest to access it automatically post-quest content? Is the Corporeal Puppy pet post quest content because you need quests in order to kill Corp Beast? Some things will be more closely related than others, but all are debateable.

Part of a problem is that they waited so long to do it, I think. It might have changed the direction of a lot of post-quest content if it was made with the trimmed quest cape in mind instead of the trimmed comp cape, or maybe the more 'rigorous' or strange requirements would have just remained trim requirements (Livid/Chompies) or easter eggs (half the Elf City titles/Annihilator).

 

Pretty much everything they've proposed has fit the guidelines, but they're so broad that it's basically just become the trim cape without the levels/minigames. Can the guidelines be changed to fit what the community thinks the 'master' quest cape should be?

 

The thing is, from an hours standpoint, the trim cape without the minigames is trivial.  I'm not particularly invested in the master quest cape (I'll probably wear my skill mastery capes and when I obtain it, comp) but it seems like they need to add aadditional content to the QM cape so that you don't automatically get it by having trim comp.


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#194
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Quests involve both Bosses and Skills though, so is there any particular reason the requirements shouldn't as well?

In quests you will defeat a boss once, you will use skills but won't train those in the quests. So yeah a req that involves killing a boss once or maybe a few times is fine, a req that involves the near mastering of a skill is not imo (level 90 base for broken home was already high imo, but I could live with that).

What you are saying is that if we would make a "master"-mining cape it would fit to add quest-reqs because you get the best pickaxes from quests... That is not what you do while mining (note this is just an example, to explain why I find it strange to add 117 dung)

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#195
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Quests involve both Bosses and Skills though, so is there any particular reason the requirements shouldn't as well?

In quests you will defeat a boss once, you will use skills but won't train those in the quests. So yeah a req that involves killing a boss once or maybe a few times is fine, a req that involves the near mastering of a skill is not imo (level 90 base for broken home was already high imo, but I could live with that).

What you are saying is that if we would make a "master"-mining cape it would fit to add quest-reqs because you get the best pickaxes from quests... That is not what you do while mining (note this is just an example, to explain why I find it strange to add 117 dung)

 

 

 

Except in this case the req is exactly like Quests. The req isn't train to 117 dunge, its get the journal and that happens to take 117 dunge. The req isn't the dunge requirement, its the journal. Just like for quest cape, the requirement would be to complete the Plague's End, and that happens to require 75 dungeoneering.

 

Its possible if we ever get Floor 61 we will even have level 120 Post-Quest content. Plus any future quests involving Inventor. Quests don't have an upper limit on the level reqs they can go to, I don't think the Mastery should


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#196
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Quests involve both Bosses and Skills though, so is there any particular reason the requirements shouldn't as well?

In quests you will defeat a boss once, you will use skills but won't train those in the quests. So yeah a req that involves killing a boss once or maybe a few times is fine, a req that involves the near mastering of a skill is not imo (level 90 base for broken home was already high imo, but I could live with that).

What you are saying is that if we would make a "master"-mining cape it would fit to add quest-reqs because you get the best pickaxes from quests... That is not what you do while mining (note this is just an example, to explain why I find it strange to add 117 dung)

 

 

 

Except in this case the req is exactly like Quests. The req isn't train to 117 dunge, its get the journal and that happens to take 117 dunge. The req isn't the dunge requirement, its the journal. Just like for quest cape, the requirement would be to complete the Plague's End, and that happens to require 75 dungeoneering.

 

Its possible if we ever get Floor 61 we will even have level 120 Post-Quest content. Plus any future quests involving Inventor. Quests don't have an upper limit on the level reqs they can go to, I don't think the Mastery should

 

 

Then I'll reinstate my point: if the levels gets soo close to Completionist Cape levels, with more/lnger requirements than Comp Cape has, wouldn't it be the better Comp Cape?

 

Let me point out in detail (To make it easier, green is a requirement on both, yellow is not sure and red is a distinct difference):

* Level wise they would be very close to each other, pretty much cancelling each-other out. Probably not 100%, but for a huge part.

* Quests is even on both, as they both require full completion of Quests as part of the requirements.

* Livid Farm Spells is only a requirement for Comp.

* Post Content prayers as Chivalry, Piety are also on both.

* Rapid Renewal can be easily unlocked from Dungeoneering, requiring no extra time and barely any effort. Is not part of the MQPC tho.

* Kudos is a requirement on both.

* The first requirement that can be problematic is Music. The thing about Quests is that they bring you pretty much everywhere and beyond. I do not know how many songs is not unlocked if someone only did quests. But I can imagine not much.

* Abyss access is a requirement on both.

* Desert Treasure miniquest - Shadow Sword, is on both capes.

* Same goes for Goblin Priest,

* Fight Kiln,

* Clarence,

* Tarn Razolor's secrets,

* Stronghold of Player Safety,

* Stronghold of Security,

* unabridged Fremennik Sagas,

* Thalassus 10x,

* QBD with Journal (and for MQPC another 3 journals)

* And Carnillean Rising - Claus

* Big Chinchompa - Score of 1111 is not part of the MQPC

* Dorics tasks

* Annihilator title

* Zaros memoriam crystals

* Seren's memoriam crystals

* Player owned ports, while not 100% confirmed yet, it is likely this will be on the MQPC as well.

* Yaktwee Stick

* Tuska Mask

* One of the 3 story lines (MQPC goes further and requires all story lines).

* Reefwalker Cape

* 15 Mahjarrat memories for Kharshai

* Bandos Memories

* The Reaper title is not required for MQPC

* All of the Elven titles (Is this part of the post-quest content? Or only some titles?)

* Memoriam Crystals also unsure, should imo be on the MQPC if not.

* Lord Amlodd - Cleansing shadow cores

* The 3rd spirit Tree part of the MQPC?

* Lady Ithell - singing research

* Lady Meilyr - Potion Recipes

* Rush of Blood

* Lady Trahaearn - removing corruption (Gives lamps that has PE mark on it)

* Fully built statue of Rhiannon

* Slayer Master Rush of Blood Challenge (Why is there a second one?)

* The Famous title

* Daffyd implings

* Recipes once again

* Hefin Journal pages, shouldn't this be on MQPC as well?

* Tiny Zemouregals Achievements (or at least should be on it)

* Prawn Perks

 

Looking at this list, I think it is unreasonable how close the MQPC rivals the Comp Cape. There are differences between them, but there aren't many that takes significant more time. Pretty much only 1: Livid Farm. And that one was almost on the MQPC as well.

And then I can begin on the additional requirements of the MQPC as they stand now, which I do not think I need to list, as the time taken is most likely far more...

 

This is why I think the MQPC as it stands now, has taken a wrong turn somewhere.


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#197
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It think the wrong turn is in comparing it to comp, they're different capes but there will be some overlap. I don't think it matters what it on comp compared to what is on MQPC. MQPC should have everything that fits the guidelines for it regardless of whether its on comp or not.

 

I don't see why QPMC can't be more prestigious than Comp, I don't see why Comp can't be more prestigious than QPMC. They're different capes and shouldn't be compared. Comp will have some reqs that people who want the QPMC won't necessarily want to do (like Reaper req and Morvran's Challenge). QPMC will probably have some reqs that Comp'ers won't want to do.

 

Quests have no upper limit in how high the Reqs can go, so it would be weird to put a cap on the Mastery version of the Quest Cape.

 

Also, they may seem close now, but there will be future reqs that will go on comp but not the QPMC and probably vice-versa. They're both capes that will continue to be added onto in the future. 

 

 

 

Also, Ports have been confirmed http://services.rune...3,goto,158#1572


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#198
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It think the wrong turn is in comparing it to comp, they're different capes but there will be some overlap. I don't think it matters what it on comp compared to what is on MQPC. MQPC should have everything that fits the guidelines for it regardless of whether its on comp or not.

 

I don't see why QPMC can't be more prestigious than Comp, I don't see why Comp can't be more prestigious than QPMC. They're different capes and shouldn't be compared. Comp will have some reqs that people who want the QPMC won't necessarily want to do (like Reaper req and Morvran's Challenge). QPMC will probably have some reqs that Comp'ers won't want to do.

 

Quests have no upper limit in how high the Reqs can go, so it would be weird to put a cap on the Mastery version of the Quest Cape.

 

Also, they may seem close now, but there will be future reqs that will go on comp but not the QPMC and probably vice-versa. They're both capes that will continue to be added onto in the future. 

 

 

 

Also, Ports have been confirmed http://services.rune...3,goto,158#1572

 

Of course, it shouldn't be compared to Completionist Cape. I agree with that notion. But on the other hand I also want to see a distinction between the routes players can go to do what they want. Completionist people who want a little bit of everything, have the Comp cape. PVM'ers currently have several titles: Final Boss, Insane Final Boss, Defeater and the latest, Daredevil.

 

Now questers are finally getting something as well. However, unlike the other group, these questers are also pretty close to Comp Cape with the requirements as they stand. In my opinion the Road to MQPC is too intertwined with the Comp Cape for it to exist in the current state. Not surprisingly, but what should be looked at is a road where it distinctively diverse with the Comp Cape in such a way that Comp Cape is still a very far stretch once MQPC is achieved. Just like that is for the PVM people with their titles. Achieving these titles only brings them marginally closer to Comp Cape.


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#199
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It think the wrong turn is in comparing it to comp, they're different capes but there will be some overlap. I don't think it matters what it on comp compared to what is on MQPC. MQPC should have everything that fits the guidelines for it regardless of whether its on comp or not.

 

I don't see why QPMC can't be more prestigious than Comp, I don't see why Comp can't be more prestigious than QPMC. They're different capes and shouldn't be compared. Comp will have some reqs that people who want the QPMC won't necessarily want to do (like Reaper req and Morvran's Challenge). QPMC will probably have some reqs that Comp'ers won't want to do.

 

Quests have no upper limit in how high the Reqs can go, so it would be weird to put a cap on the Mastery version of the Quest Cape.

 

Also, they may seem close now, but there will be future reqs that will go on comp but not the QPMC and probably vice-versa. They're both capes that will continue to be added onto in the future. 

 

 

 

Also, Ports have been confirmed http://services.rune...3,goto,158#1572

 

Of course, it shouldn't be compared to Completionist Cape. I agree with that notion. But on the other hand I also want to see a distinction between the routes players can go to do what they want. Completionist people who want a little bit of everything, have the Comp cape. PVM'ers currently have several titles: Final Boss, Insane Final Boss, Defeater and the latest, Daredevil.

 

Now questers are finally getting something as well. However, unlike the other group, these questers are also pretty close to Comp Cape with the requirements as they stand. In my opinion the Road to MQPC is too intertwined with the Comp Cape for it to exist in the current state. Not surprisingly, but what should be looked at is a road where it distinctively diverse with the Comp Cape in such a way that Comp Cape is still a very far stretch once MQPC is achieved. Just like that is for the PVM people with their titles. Achieving these titles only brings them marginally closer to Comp Cape.

 

 

 

I think the problem with that though is that Questing is in many ways similar to your view of what Comp is. Quests involve a little bit of everything. They involve bossing,skilling, lore, storyline, puzzles, D&D's. Thats before you include post-quest stuff which includes even more of it. Questing is very much a Jack of All Trades activity, unlike PvM which is much more specific. So it is hard to look at stuff related to Questing and nail down any specific route that it should go, because it includes a bit of nearly everything in the game except maybe PvP.

 

If you want massively different goals, then we need more achievement type things for individual skills, or PvP, or PvM. Things that aren't really as comprehensive as Questing is. Questers are a diverse group, although the one thing I've noticed that most (not all but most) Questers seem to enjoy but non-questers don't is storyline. Those that enjoy Quests tend to enjoy the storylines and lore in the game. So, I think if the Cape needed to expand to include higher reqs (which the J Mods thought it did) then storyline stuff was the way to go with it.


R.I.P. The olde nite. A legend is gone but not forgotten.

 

a Faction Related Item Sink for Rune Labs. https://secure.runes...ew-idea?idea=19

 

 


#200
Vann
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Vann

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My biggest issue with it being so close to comp requirements is the fact that it will have the MC stats and not bonus stats. Give it special stats(3 kiln capes bc you sacrifice for enhanced fc) and maybe it makes sense. But for the time requirement, if I'm already getting 90+ base and 117 DG I might as well grind out comp bc it has the bis stats + perks of other capes (kiln, accumulator, etc)

I know you are saying not to compare them but honestly you can't help but compare them bc so many reqs overlap and it doesn't apply to any other master cape (except for dungeoneering)




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