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Kiara_Kat

Tip.It Times Presents: An Ethical Dilemma

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now i really wish that article wasnt removed! andrew is really full of himself if he thinks he has any legal ground. Jagex would be laughed outta the court room if they even tried. jagex number one fear is critics. so i say bring on the critics.

 

 

 

WE MUST STAND UP TO JAGEX!

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No you are not, Dr_Elephant, the only one who read that tipit didn't remove it because of Jagex's threat. A lot of people cynically assume that it really was because of the thread, though we really can't pry into peoples' minds and know for certain.

 

 

 

 

With the new 100th quest to write about, why rehash old garbage?

 

 

 

 

To make a long story short:

 

 

 

As a previous member permanently banned from the Jagex forums due to Jagex's inability to think, I was no longer willing to pay for half the game. With that, I am unable to comment on the 100th quest, however entertaining it might have been. I am sure that it is the same for people who are banned. Let me also add that I was banned from the forums on my last day of membership. (I had already decided to quit because of Jagex's complete stonewalling of any of my customer support messages)

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where can i get a copy of this article?

 

Jagex censorship must end.

 

I got an email from jagex telling me that i am not allowed to share my emails with anyone. what a crock that is.

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i understand tip it wanted to avoid conflict and especialy after this incident i find tip it to be very respectable. But they should not be bullied by jagex.

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*Sigh* I suppose that the "Freedom of the Press" does go a bit to far sometimes. I mean, everyone has a right to privacy as well. And if you go that far, everyone has a right to a fair explaination too. Andrew proved this when he replied to that topic last week. He quickly explained that all the mistakes had been, or were in the process of, being corrected, and that they have a ban appeal section for just that sort of problem.

 

Even so, Jagex did go a bit to far threating legal action. It was nothing to get worked up about. It was an article representing the paranoia of getting banned. It is something even I am worried about sometimes. Although Tip.It says they did not take the article off because of Jagex's threat (I never did see a solid reason), it doesnt' change the fact that they made the threat.

 

One thing Jagex did not see about the article, was it's power to actually control the rule breaker's of Runescape. I figure that the majority of Runescape players use Tip.It. I also figure most of them read the Tip.It Times. I for one, if I were a little more naive, would be scared out of my mind of getting banned. Because of that fear, I would never think of breaking rules (a lot of them anyway). The article, in my opinion (I do still have that right), would have helped Jagex's rule policy, instead of any harmful effects it may have had on the rules as they probably were thinking.

 

Even so, libel is illegal. The article last week was a bit biased and it may have hurt Jagex's reputation a tiny bit. Even so, Jagex could simply explain it on their home page, instead of posting on the Tip.It forums where few people would see it. I am not ashamed at Jagex or the author more than I am ashamed at Tip.It. They crumbled under pressure, and to set up a defence against many complaints on the take-down, they wrote this article. It really was an un-needed article, when there were many more important things to discuss this week such as the Knowledge Base and the 100th quest. I don't mean to offend Tip.It, but I am pretty sure most people understand why you took it down.

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By removing the article, Tip It backed down from it's stance regarding current issues. No offense, but that is really wussy. I suggest rewriting the previous article to make it more fair but Tip It should NOT totally remove the previous article.

 

 

 

I suggest writing a new article to address separate issues:

 

 

 

1 - the community is worried over the recent bans for multi log considering many people play with their rl friends or family

 

 

 

2 - black marks/ bans for "advertising" is also widely perceived as unfair especially if only harmless fan pages are mentioned

 

 

 

3 - banning chars with inappropriate names is problematic and Jagex policy is unclear to players as some players with inappropriate names are banned but not all, which seems pretty unfair

 

 

 

In the original article "biased" wasn't used correctly. :P The word is unfair or unjust.

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My Personal Opinion:

 

 

 

Who Cares if it offened's and if it's Biased...It's an Editorial it's ment to be like that on certain occasions. I have no problem reading a tip.it times which may be biased no matter if I agree with it or not. It's there to spark debate and personal opinion. And it's definitely not there to be agreed with by the whole of Runescape.

 

 

 

But that's tip.it's own decision to take it down for there own reasons. Let's just hope we don't have this situation again. :wink:

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ZZZZzzZzZzzzZZzzZzzZ

 

 

 

Oh sorry? Were We Talking About Something?

 

 

 

No offense whatsoever to Kiara Kat as she brilliantly explains to those that cannot comprehend the basic rights we are given, but the article basically says that A biased article was published, Jagex got into angry mode, and although the article was legal, as we have freedom of speech & press; we arent allowed to make them upset.

 

 

 

Sorry, im not putting my quarter in the machine, i still stick by the rebellion side when it comes to inequities in runescape, regardless of number of cases and how jagex "strives" to tie the loose ends.

 

 

 

Great article, Too One sided topic.

 

 

 

Good job on the vocabulary and explanation, though, Kiara.

 

 

 

-NB

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This topic is for discussing the CURRENT article, NOT for re-hashing old arguments about whether Jagex was justified or not in banning certain players.

 

 

 

Please stick to the topic, or it will be locked.

 

 

 

Owned previous 7 posts... Anyways. I applaude tip.it for altering their procedures within the tip it times to better process their works and to, hopefully, be bias-free from now on. I'm not necessarily saying this will always happen but its definately a start.


The self-proclaimed king of bronze.

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I've said it before and I'll say it again.

 

 

 

"If any man disagrees on the opinion of another, it is well within his right to state his own. But we can not censor his [the Editor's] opinion just because we don't like it. I myself perfectly agree with him. But if YOU don't, write your own opinion. Tell him how he is wrong. But add, don't detract. By just retracting his statement, Tipit is effectively stating that they have no confidence in the Editor's ability to do the job they themselves assigned to him. "

 

 

 

 

 

In light of the author for this week's article, I feel the statement in bold is sadly true. A sorrowful farewell to our Editor. His words live on.

 

 

 

 

 

And in response to this---->"This topic is for discussing the CURRENT article, NOT for re-hashing old arguments about whether Jagex was justified or not in banning certain players.

 

 

 

Please stick to the topic, or it will be locked."

 

 

 

 

 

Was not the new article a response to the old? If you really don't want people to talk about the old article, don't provide a place to do it in. If you just want to explain something, don't let us discuss it. Because you'll just find that you don't like what we say. Cause the truth hurts, don't it?

 

 

 

 

 

While yes, it's a good thing to be nice to everyone, and yes, making Andrew mad isn't our goal, I know for certain that Knowledge is Power.

 

 

 

And if I may reiterate:

 

 

 

"If any man disagrees on the opinion of another, it is well within his right to state his own."

 

 

 

Write a counter-arguement. But don't dismiss him as an ignorant fool. You make yourself look even worse.

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Wow, I'm surprised they brought this back up. Should of let this die. How can you have an opinion on anything if you don't know the facts behind what your saying. Seems silly and ridiculous to me. This whole debate is tiresome and I don't honestly see it going anywhere. I can't wait until this is forgotten again.


sig_trippy2.jpg

 

Why should we buy postage stamps when we can make our own?

aperson being

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Exactly. I'm dyin with laughter here that they would actually provide a forum topic to discuss this in. It's hilarious.

 

 

 

Although I don't in any way, shape, or form agree with Tipit or Runescape in this matter, I feel all opinions (or at least most) have been shared, so no loss in letting it die. Everyone knows what everone else thinks now anyway.

 

 

 

(And yes, I did actually read the article.)

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By removing the article, Tip It backed down from it's stance regarding current issues. No offense, but that is really wussy. I suggest rewriting the previous article to make it more fair but Tip It should NOT totally remove the previous article.

 

 

 

I suggest writing a new article to address separate issues:

 

 

 

1 - the community is worried over the recent bans for multi log considering many people play with their rl friends or family

 

 

 

2 - black marks/ bans for "advertising" is also widely perceived as unfair especially if only harmless fan pages are mentioned

 

 

 

3 - banning chars with inappropriate names is problematic and Jagex policy is unclear to players as some players with inappropriate names are banned but not all, which seems pretty unfair

 

 

 

In the original article "biased" wasn't used correctly. :P The word is unfair or unjust.

 

 

 

Exactly, im P****ed off of having to be scared of asking my mate wat his "msm" is or telling some one wat my clan site is. Its completly out of control.

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By removing the article, Tip It backed down from it's stance regarding current issues. No offense, but that is really wussy. I suggest rewriting the previous article to make it more fair but Tip It should NOT totally remove the previous article.

 

 

 

I suggest writing a new article to address separate issues:

 

 

 

1 - the community is worried over the recent bans for multi log considering many people play with their rl friends or family

 

 

 

2 - black marks/ bans for "advertising" is also widely perceived as unfair especially if only harmless fan pages are mentioned

 

 

 

3 - banning chars with inappropriate names is problematic and Jagex policy is unclear to players as some players with inappropriate names are banned but not all, which seems pretty unfair

 

 

 

In the original article "biased" wasn't used correctly. :P The word is unfair or unjust.

 

 

 

Exactly, im P****ed off of having to be scared of asking my mate wat his "msm" is or telling some one wat my clan site is. Its completly out of control.

 

 

 

 

 

Props to both of you. Very good points.

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First up I'd like to say kudos to muppetman for a well written well balanced article.

 

There are a few exta issues here that I would like to highlight as regards the actions of Jagex and Tipit but and introduction first. I am also a 30+ year old player of runescape and a proffesional poker player in the real world and I found Jagexs' and Andrews' reaction to the article fascinating for several reasons.

 

It is in the nature of human psycology to be most aggressive when it is at its weakest and most vulnerable (something that has earned me a tidy amount of money over the years) and the hyper aggressive response to the original article would seem to point to Andrew knowing that he is in the wrong over the whole banning issue or at least has something to hide. If he was totally in the right and had had his reputation questioned unfairly then the natural reaction would be more measured, calmer and patient because it would be based on the confidence of truthful knowledge. But it wasn't. The article itself was, covertly or not, questioning Jagexs' buisness practices particularly their customer support. It was this questioning of the customer support that probably inspired the hostile reaction from Jagex due to a guilty conscience on their part. Jagex is a company that sees an income of several million dollars a month at least yet the vast majority of their customer support is automatated and, to be honest, inadequate. This is not to say that the jagex staff dont care because it is obvious from the amount and quality of the updates we recieve that they do but, and this is the point, THEY ARE NOT BUISNESSMEN. They look and act like coders, programmers and gamers who have suddenly found themselves in charge of a company that is expanding increadibly fast and they are struggling to keep up. There are other indicators which are too detailed to go into here but it would seem that they are running the company on a maximun profit/minimum outlay basis and hopeing that the whole thing doesn't fall over at least the areas of the buisness that they are unfamiliar with (everything except coding/programming). Tipits article seemed to highlight the flaws in their buisness or to put it another way they had been hurt in a sensitive area and were lashing out.

 

I think it was a serious misake for tipit to remove the original article because it makes Jagex feel correct in its actions and will slow down the natural market pressures for change. Both Jagex and Tipit need to recognise the force for good that tipit and other fan sites can be within the game and that the removal of the original article has hurt the game itself.

 

Finnaly Jagex and certain members of staff within it need to realise that as paying customers it is our right to highlight any problems within the game and the company and that as a PLC if any member of staff is found to be acting outside the companys' own guidelines then they can be removed by shareholders (not that I am accusing anyone of this but the previous article was alluding to personal bias and wrongdoing). Perhaps a tie in to a more established consulting company with the buisness experiance could help them. Or maybe we should all buy 1 share in jagex and turn up to the shareholders meeting and get a free lunch at least

 

:lol:

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lol ok i just finished reading your insanly long post and im pretty sure i understood most of it ,but for anyonje who needs me to dumb it down a shade ,basically hes saying the tip.it writeing guy exposed the jagex weakness ,there custommer support ,he's saying that there igonoring the customers needs and wants better customer support ,he's also saying that no one at jagex is a real business man or ,and they have very little knowleg in the way business are run ,and they are caught up in a popular one and they cant keep up with there demands

 

 

 

he's also saying that jagex need a more personal system of customer support and report readers(called them that because of the lack of an other name for it)

 

 

 

if and one could dumb it down more that would help

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Jagex taking that off proves my fact that Jagex is the worst company I have ever seen.

 

 

 

DOWN WITH JAGEX!

 

 

 

I had my RSPAJ Petition going, but it got locked because tip.it mod are are afraid of F-A-G-E-X!


RSN - Sirlaser [ Private Chat: ON ]

~~115/120 Combat~~

Leader of Exile [X]

>> Click to Enter EXILE <<

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well what can i say, my opinion is that, the article about banning, i think players has the right to know the truth and make comments on it, freedom of thought speech etc, and tip it is here to provide us with truthful information even though, some of the words was incorrectly used and misunderstood by some.

 

Jagex has to right to burge in and sue tip it for that, taking things too seriously.

 

Out of all the games i played, yes there are rules in games, but not so strict as you feel you are on a leash, they enforced the rules so much, like *no calling noobs* and have mods running around making reports typing things down, some satellite from space detecting if you are *real world trading*, as to if you borrow a friend something, i suppose they would assume it would count as real world trading,then ban you for it. If that is the case, why should we have friends on here, better if they inforce a rule called *No friends allowed* or the best make rs 1 person rpg game so there wouldnt be all of this bs about claling noobs real world trading scamming etc.

 

I mean this is a game after all, we are here to have fun, and there are strength and weaknesses to a game not everyone plays accordingly, but thats how the world is, there is always motive for someone to do bad, unless you go to their house shoot them in the face with a shotgun, but that be too harsh.

 

We have the right to debate and argue, we are not critisizing any jagex staff or members.

 

im probly ganna get banned for this reply anyway, they probly have some scanning machine printing out reports and 50 people checking the comments section, and in 2 days i would get banned for calling a friend a noob or some stupid thing made up, and bann my ip from rs website lol.

 

but overall i think jagex gone too far with this lawsuit thing

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As with every action theres a reaction that follows. Yes Jagex has spent countless hours making runescape, yes of course you would too be angry if your hard work was attacked, but it's sad to see something back down to the bigger "bully". If I was put in this situation I'd of said bring on your legal actions you have no ground to stand on and of had my attourney contact them.. =p Much like a bully demanding lunch money Jagex has done the same. What good are the rights are ancestors fought for if a simple post can wipe them away? When I saw what Andrew posted about legal reprocussions I literally laughed!! I asked myself how can the useage of freedom of speech be threatend? Tip.it does have their reasons why it was pulled, if this was the real reason we won't ever know. I love runescape, what's been created is amazing and I'm glad this game exsits. Stand up, fight for your rights, dont back down, no matter how big the problem is...

 

 

 

 

 

and Umm wow im surprised this has been allowed....

 

I had my RSPAJ Petition going, but it got locked because tip.it mod are are afraid of F-A-G-E-X!

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Weather or not the article last week presented fact or not, it DID represent a common belief among the player base of late.

 

 

 

The impression that players are banned unfairly *already* existed, this article just brought it into focus. It's now upto jagex to reassure people that the banning system is fair.

 

 

 

For instance I recently saw a post where someone got perm banned (I don't know if an appeal was sucessful) for jokingly telling someone who asked where to get a fire cape, "ebay". I think most people are scared of being banned for a joke.

 

 

 

And Andrew's post on the last article gave the impression mistakes happen, we're sorry about them but don't care all that much since there are plently of player's left. A bit of reassurance would be nice and I think a 400 character box isn't very fair considering people put 1000s of hours into a character.

 

 

 

Basicly there's an impression that you can be banned very easily and your appeal gets skimmed in 30 seconds by someone who reads 100s a day and doesn't really give a monkey's either way.

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I think that its complete garbage.

 

 

 

"Waahh... They said I was biased... I am going to sue them for some made-up reason, blah blah blah...."

 

 

 

Since when can you be sued for disagreeing with someones actions, or speaking your own opinion? Tip It has done nothing wrong but hurt someones feelings. Andrew didnt approach Tip It as a business man, he came at them in a whiny "I'm-telling-on-you kinda way".

 

 

 

I say stand up for yourself. you didnt break any of Jagex's rules, you can't be banned for THINKING.

 

 

 

Dude it's called defamation of character!

 

 

 

Basically he feels insulted at the comments made in the article, it's like you work on something for so long, perfecting it and stuff.

 

 

 

Then ppl start saying you're not doing something right(not banning ppl)!

 

 

 

So you start doing something about it(start banning ppl) and then ppl atart complaining.

 

 

 

What you've got to realise is that there a thousands of reports sent into jagex each day, so most of these banns are probebly backlogs from the past year or so.

 

 

 

Also, they won't ban for no reason. They cheak the logs and act accordingly

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Although there have been quite a few well thought out and constructive posts, this thread just can't seem to stay away from arguing about banning.

 

 

 

This has nothing to do with any particular post, but I've decided to lock it. We'd need an army of mods on this one thread just to keep it cleaned out. :(

 

 

 

One final note though, which part of the following quote from the article was so hard to understand?

 

 

 

Yes, Andrew Gower did contact us about the article, yes, legal action was threatened, yes, he was angry. Very angry. But is this the reason the article was removed from the site? No.

 

 

 

We did NOT remove the article in question for any reason other than that it was the right thing to do.

 

 

 

Newp


Quote
Rule #1 clearly states, "Do NOT confuse Newpy!"

Only 19 years to get to level 99 in something.  Mining, check.

Moving right along ... Catch me if you can! 🤣

Always buying silver ore at above GE prices!

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I've decided to unlock this thread. Please stay on topic, which is duscussing the current Times article.

 

 

 

To any who followed the link from the article only to find this thread locked, you have my appologies.


Quote
Rule #1 clearly states, "Do NOT confuse Newpy!"

Only 19 years to get to level 99 in something.  Mining, check.

Moving right along ... Catch me if you can! 🤣

Always buying silver ore at above GE prices!

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