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Nazgul740

Durial's interview gives 'scapers a bad rap

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...I lay the blame firmly at the feet of JaGeX.

 

 

 

Yes... yes I see how Jagex forced Duriel to go out and kill those people. Made him go out and actively click on all those people innocently walking along in town' date=' cutting them down without a thought for them.

 

 

 

Yes - Jagex most certainly are evil people, with those Jedi mind-control techniques of theirs... :roll:

 

 

 

Duriel made a [i']concious[/i] decision to do what he did. He knew the rules (and even if he didn't, he signed a thing to say the he DID, so he has no recourse there), he broke them, and has been suitably punished.

 

 

 

 

I did not argue that durial should not be banned. He did not control him self. As Nieztche said, the goal is the triumph of the will, and his will did not triumph over his urges.

 

 

 

secondly actualy read the rest of my post before u quote me...did u just read the first and last line or something? Or did u just not understand it? Was it too complicated for you? Awww didums. READ WHAT I WROTE and maybe, if your brain is able to comprehend it, you will see that I gave a possible description of factors which could lead to the conclusion that jagex actualy did, in a sense encourage him to go out there and do it. Moreover I lay the blame at the feet of Jagex, not because they made him do it, but because they know there are a large number of desperate "pixel huggers" who will abuse bugs they leave in the game, and yet they still FAILED TO ENSURE THESE GLITCHES WERE CORRECTED BEFORE RELEASE!. So next time, before u comment read the post your commenting on.

 

 

 

 

Humans are motivated by greed and self-promotion. We like to think that we aren't, but we are. Anytime there is a chance at acquiring wealth, we take it. Consequences are rarely ever a deterring factor.

 

 

 

yes!


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That says more about 90% of RuneScape in that case, rather then that it makes it "ok" what Durial did. It's plain non-contraversional bug abuse, there's no way to talk that "right".

 

 

 

I never said he was "Right". All I was saying is that he simply did what a large majority would have done if placed in his shoes. It's easy to say that you wouldn't when you weren't given the chance. But, as we all know, humans are motivated by greed and self-interest (Even if we try to believe otherwise) and will pursue those goals.

 

 

 

I'm not going to say that everyone in Runescape wants to get rich and own a party hat or other rares, but I do know that a large of Runescape does. If you gave those people who desire a party hat the option to acquire one the way Durial had, I know that a large portion of Runescape would take it.

 

 

 

That's really all I'm saying.

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I did not argue that durial should not be banned. He did not control him self. As Nieztche said, the goal is the triumph of the will, and his will did not triumph over his urges.

 

 

 

... and at what point did I say you did ? Perhaps it is not I that is failing to read posts...

 

 

 

secondly actualy read the rest of my post before u quote me...did u just read the first and last line or something? Or did u just not understand it? Was it too complicated for you? Awww didums. READ WHAT I WROTE and maybe, if your brain is able to comprehend it, you will see that I gave a possible description of factors which could lead to the conclusion that jagex actualy did, in a sense encourage him to go out there and do it. Moreover I lay the blame at the feet of Jagex, not because they made him do it, but because they know there are a large number of desperate "pixel huggers" who will abuse bugs they leave in the game, and yet they still FAILED TO ENSURE THESE GLITCHES WERE CORRECTED BEFORE RELEASE!. So next time, before u comment read the post your commenting on.

 

 

 

 

Ok... first of all i'll try to ignore the ridiculously childish part in the middle of THIS post, "diddums" - unlike what I did with your previous one, which was extremely hard to read. Is there a problem with your ENTER key, perchance ?

 

 

 

I read your entire post, as I read the entirety of the other posts in this thread - I never comment on a thread without having done so.

 

 

 

The reason I chose to answer in your post what I did, is that the rest of it was complete and utter rubbish and completely unworthy of a response.

 

 

 

Do you have *any* idea on what is involved in firstly developing something as complex as Construction, and secondly bug-testing it ? Have you considered the number of *years* that POH has been discussed, talked about, etc. by us ? Where do you think the concept of that came from ? Hmmm ? It came from Jagex, whoch have been thinking of, and planning for, this release for *years*.

 

 

 

What... you think all of those items, the designs etc. were done since last weeks' update ??

 

 

 

As has already been posted by Paul (I think it was Paul, or was it Andrew or a Mod ? Oh well, nevermind - it was a Jagex staff member anyways), the sheer size and complexity of the update made it nigh in impossible for them to test every single possibility, every single action that could be done within the scheme of the whole Construction skill.

 

 

 

They have apologised for this bug, and have used it as a learning experience and are working on improving their development and testing phases in order to help try and ensure this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

 

 

 

Now... in the mean-time... throw whatever "factors" out there that you like. My initial point, however, remains :

 

 

 

Jagex did not force Duriel to do any of what he did - in fact, there were Mods running around trying to stop him, yet he persisted until he was forcibly removed... yes... yes once again I can see how Jagex are completely to blame for that... :roll:

 

 

 

Now... before you pull out your lovely red bold font and your pen of immaturity and insults, I suggest you read MY post in entirety (notice how much easier it is to read with punctuation and line breaks and stuff ?), and consider the fact that perhaps yes, indeed, I DID read all of your post... but that perhaps some of your points were off the mark...

 

 

 

 

 

(OK, so I failed to entirely ignore your immaturity. So sue me)


One-time #13 smither.

All-time #1 noob.

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Given the same situation, I would have had a hard time not doing the same thing D***** (no name naming :roll: ) did myself. I think we should put things into perspective. He is niether a sociopath nor a psychopath. He went on player killing spree in a game that player killing is as big a part of as is skilling and earning phats. It was actually fun watching that video..too bad for me I wasn't there. I think everyone is blowing this way out of proportion. A short ban is all that is needed for this offence, imo.


jfroggy

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Nazgul740 stop being a little wonderful person, get off your rags, i think durial is a hero and should be worshipped, for those who lost their items, maybe they have finally learnt that runescape isnt everything and have finally gotten a life

 

 

 

all hail durial

 

 

 

 

 

? maybe they have finally learnt that runescape... you know you sound like a sad bitter little man right

 

 

 

I argue that it is Jagex's fault for allowing such a glitch. There have been hundreds (not an exageration) of glithces and faults with the player owned houses. Moreover, Jagex has had ages, over a year to develop this party of the game scince they first announced it, and work was probably going on before they did. In my house i've had people swimming through the floor, people stuck inside walls, people standing over open trapdoors, people falling through the trap door and appearing in the middle of nowhere, people sitting backwards on chairs. and it goes on. Jagex knows that RS is rife with scammers who will use glitches and bugs to thier own advantage, and yet they still leave in all these bugs which can so easily be abused. So this, in my opinion, is Jagex's fault, leaving in bugs and then treating those that demonstrate that thier programming has faults as the wrongful party. Durial did not hack, he did not even seek to replicate the bug. The bug was thrust upon him, and he found himself in a situation where he was surrounded by free items, items that it had always been his goal to aquire. And suddenly, like a golden shortcut, he didn't have to work to get them. No time to think about the consequences, no time to consider other people's feeling, he had to get as much as he could, as quickly as possible, before someone stopped him. He flet overjoyed, he was having fun, aquiring all those items he wanted in such an easy way! No, Durial can not be blamed for his actions. Jagex has created an oppressive, repressive, limited and totalitarian game situation, where people cannot voice thier views if they are deemed unacceptable (As much as i dislike rascists they have a right to voice thier views like the rest of us). In this atmosphere we are pitted against the system - the system took 4 million gold pieces from me in glitches like the auto skull glitch and a forced log out, the system makes it hard to work for the items you want, the system makes it a struggle to achieve your goals (not that these are bad things, just bare with me). Jagex created this feeling, and therefore it is thier fault, arguably, that durial went on this "doomsday ramapge". I lay the blame firmly at the feet of JaGeX.

 

 

 

Actually i agree with you on alot of those points lol! jagex does have a strick forum which is iron tight... i was banned on my first account from makeing a thread called the M0m killed me z0mg!! it was a poke with a stick at all the ahhhh i have died threads that keep poping up.... ouch black mark #1 banned pl0x?


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[EDIT]

 

 

 

You hide behind a guise of accusation. I am the immature one because i critised you for not reading my post. I am sorry, i was mistaken - the fault did not lie in the fact that you did not read the post, it is simply that you appear to be possesed of a very low mental capability, and are unable to understand. Flame me all you want for spelling and punctuation, to me that's not as important as the message. The message that you chose to ignore.

 

 

 

notice how you did not comment on my arguments, and simply dissmissed them out of hand, saying that it was utter rubbish and unworthy of a response. Now, now, just because you didn't understand does not make it rubbish. The arguments are valid enough for consideration - the game atmopshere encouraging attacks upon the system etc. Yet you, possesed of some far higher wisdom, deem these unworthy of anything but insult. If you had engaged with the points and stated that they were flawed for a logical and intelectual reason I would show you some modicum of respect, indeed i would have show you a great deal, but instead you, whilst telling me that insulting people is childish, continue to call me immature me throughout your post. I'm not sure you would understand the term hipocrite, but i'll use it anyway and hope you know what a dictionary is for. (I, myself, have no problem insulting you)

 

 

 

I am sorry that the methods i was forced to employ to emphasise my point so that even you could understand what i was talking about caused you offence - but if they did you probaly are not even reading this part of my answer.

 

 

 

Now, onto the real argument. Jagex has had years, and this is no exageration, i mean years to to iron out the flaws in the fabrick of this update. If this were the only glitch, or one of only a few, i would not react in the way I do. But this (and excuse me please for I will yet again have to resort to the dreaded colour red) WAS ONE OF MANY. There were an entire panopoly of flaws, a myriad of insecure, in expert programming that allowed hundread of glitches into the game, hundreds. The testing, if there was any, was clearly insufficeint. Clearly. This is why i lay the blame at the feet of Jagex. The sheer vast number of glitches were absurd. I know that one or two bugs may slip the net in any update, but this was not one or two.

 

 

 

So why is it Jagex's fault (with lots of spaces just for you, my dear friend)

 

 

 

They left hundreds of bugs in the game, knowing the problem with scammers and bug abusers. They could expect any bugs they left to be abused, and the sheer number of glitches, for me, demonstrates in adequate testing.

 

 

 

Now that I know that reading is not you problem, i hope only that you understand this post, and in replying engage intelectualy with my critisism of Jagex


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fubai and grin chill guys... you can disagree resonably... 8-)


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fubai and grin chill guys... you can disagree resonably... 8-)

 

 

 

if only his counter arguments were reasonable. if only they were logical or interlectual. I can agree to disagree then.


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does jagex only use their small staff for testing? Maybe if they'd use player beta testers, they'd catch more of these glitches before large releases.


jfroggy

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My my - didn't we have fun with the thesaurus ?

 

 

 

Ok... "my dear friend"... the answer to your question "Why is it Jagex fault" is an easy one, and one that I have already stated twice :

 

 

 

They did not make him do it !! He CHOSE to do it. And by making that choice, he put himself in the wrong, plain and simple.

 

 

 

You go to the ATM, get an extra $100 note you shouldn't have been given, take it without reporting it and have the police turn up on the doorstep. You think they're going to accept your answer of "It was THEIR fault !! They gave it to me !" ?? No.

 

 

 

the game atmopshere encouraging attacks upon the system etc

 

 

 

That has to be THE biggest load of... waffle... I have ever heard on these forums! Encourages attacks upon the system ? Has Bob started roaming the countryside, saying "Psst !! See that person over there ? Go kill them - you can do it without getting skulled ! Try it ! It's a blast !!"

 

 

 

Mate - it's "hypocrite". If you're going to try and use big words - get them right, eh ? And for the record, considering the only insult that i've thrown at you is to say that part of one of your posts is rubbish, and to ask if your ENTER key has a problem... might wanna grab that dictionary yourself ;)

 

 

 

Now that I know that reading is not you problem, i hope only that you understand this post, and in replying engage intelectualy with my critisism of Jagex

 

 

 

Now who's not reading who's posts ? Hmmm ?? Refer to my previous post for an answer to your query regarding bug-fixing, etc.

 

 

 

Now as much as i'd love to continue this little play of words with you, i'm off away for the long weekend.

 

 

 

So... play nice now, kids !


One-time #13 smither.

All-time #1 noob.

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kno how in the interveiw it says he likes pkin well he wasn't pkin

 

 

 

let me define it.

 

 

 

PKing: short for Player Killing. Happens in the WILDERNESS between 2 or more players.

 

 

 

Wot Durial did was different from pkin other players couldn't fite bak makin this a massacre. Hope he enjoyin his 1+ hour of fun it was his last


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Denizen of Darkness| PSN= sworddude198

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i'm not even going to lie here, i think hes pretty awesome, and yes i would have done the same. however, let me explain myself. i do NOT think he should be unbanned, but i think it was halarious, and i would have done the same things. i could care less if i lost my character because runescape is so boring for me lately. i would have been content with ruining a few peoples pixels. aswell, i respect him somewhat, because he actually figured out this glitch effectively, he didn't just download it off the internet. if this was some stupid download made by a different person than i would be totally against it in every way.

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Posting this interview is a mode to give you posibility to hear ALL sides and decide by your eyes IF this what he done is wrong or not, if you only hear about that incident and hear people was banned, lost items etc you always have to decide by 2nd or 3rd hand information about it, already somehow biased, we posted 3 different opinions about same thing, giving you ability to judge that by yourself.

 

 

 

If we hide it or simply remove it from forum to prevent it from crashing most people will remain only with rumors to hear and create its opinion. As this bug was fixed so it was not repetable was of mass interest we decided to provide all with best possibility to see and decide by themselfs moving it to separate page that can hold load and giving in it links to all relevant posts.

 

 

 

If giving you ability to judge by yourself and giving you acces to information relevant for this is wrong then we are guilty.


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I think this interneiw should be scrapped coz it gives alot of ppl a bad name

 

 

 

Quote:

 

any other player would have done the same thing

 

 

 

(least it close)

 

 

 

I myself would not have done this stick to wildy for killin ppl for profit


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you just compare it too much with real life, cmon man its just a game


I was once at the airport with my friends in California, had to go "potty" really bad, and just pissed my pants in the middle of the terminal. (All the cool kids piss in their pants, right?)

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Posting this interview is a mode to give you posibility to hear ALL sides and decide by your eyes IF this what he done is wrong or not, if you only hear about that incident and hear people was banned, lost items etc you always have to decide by 2nd or 3rd hand information about it, already somehow biased, we posted 3 different opinions about same thing, giving you ability to judge that by yourself.

 

 

 

If we hide it or simply remove it from forum to prevent it from crashing most people will remain only with rumors to hear and create its opinion. As this bug was fixed so it was not repetable was of mass interest we decided to provide all with best possibility to see and decide by themselfs moving it to separate page that can hold load and giving in it links to all relevant posts.

 

 

 

If giving you ability to judge by yourself and giving you acces to information relevant for this is wrong then we are guilty.

 

 

 

 

 

yes the interviewer is fawning over the convicted abuser!

 

 

 

GAH! lol in understand tip.it's view with wanting the information out but i am sure that we could get a better interview then the one posted! still he did get the fact in the end... but the interviewer subjects his opinions through the interview Very unproffisianly biasing the whole interview

 

It would make any new player think that the bug abuse is something people do all the time and that there is nothign wrong with it NOT TRUE

 

(gah can't spell today)


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I would have done the same thing as him in his possition... sorry :twisted:

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Tip.it is really no better. I feel tip.it staff is being some what hypocritical about the entire situation. They don't want people posting about bug abuse and naming names... yet this just so happens to be an exception??? Come on tip.it... If you're gonna make rules... at LEAST stick with them. Promoting bug abuse even if you don't support it is just as bad. How can you publish such content on your own damn website and forums when it is immoral and against the rules. Hypocrites I tell ya...

 

 

 

Now this... this I disagree with entirely.

 

 

 

Please - explain to me how we are "Promoting bug abuse" ?? Have we come out and said "Check this out ! Here's how you do it, go for broke !" ? If we did, I most certainly missed that one, and would have removed it in a heart-beat if i'd seen it...

 

 

 

Allowing a report on what the result of someone abusing a bug to be posted - with no details on how to replicate it, etc. is hardly promoting it.

 

 

 

I can tell you now, each and every member of the Admin team condemn Duriels' actions and are absolutely appalled at the chaos he caused - totally selfish, careless and irresponsible, and my heart goes out to those innocents caught up in the middle of this and suffering losses which they should not have suffered.

 

 

 

Yes, this is only a game... however, the millions of GP, items, etc. which were lost, have all taken time and effort to earn, or have sentimental value in some cases, and that has all been unfairly taken from numerous people by those who broke the rules.

 

 

 

Now, the only exception that HAS been made here, is the whole naming of names things - and that's purely due to exceptional circumstances. It was so widely-known, and so entirely proven beyond doubt, that there was no "possible innocent" to be spared.

 

 

 

 

In an indirect manner... I would have to say yous are... to be honest. Before I explain further... please let it be known that I have absolutely nothing personal against tip.it... I'm just simply calling it like I see it.

 

 

 

The said interview is so extremely one sided that its pathetic. That little interview basically promotes bug abuse. For such a high profile site (such as tip.it) to post such material can only be considered indirectly promoting bug abuse (which is something tip.it doesn't and shouldn't promote).

 

 

 

Infact... if I recall... I was one of probably many that actually reported that very interview that was posted on the forum. Why? Because it promotes everything that every good Runescape player, Tip.it, Jagex, and myself should be against. Then to my surprise... moments later I go to the Tip.it site... and to my surprise... the very thing that should have been removed is right on the website.

 

 

 

I don't see why anyone feels that this interview is needed to tell the entire story. It will honestly do no good. Why? Because then it puts doubts in the minds of players. It makes people think that its alright to do things like this. All in the name of trying to etch their name in "Runescape History". Why would Tip.it as a whole allow such a thing like that to remain not just on their forum, but on their website as well? Make me understand how that is even justified...

 

 

 

I'm not suggesting to report things inaccurately... but other users who are just as wise are stating that this very interview was done unprofessionally. Why would you want content that is even labeled as unprofessional posted on your main web site?

 

 

 

The naming names ordeal I can sightly agree with... but I look at it this way... If you're going to make a rule... Their honestly shouldn't be any exceptions. If his name were to have been posted on the main site... thats all fine and well, but the forums? How can anyone take these rules seriously if Tip.it allows users to bend a rule when the moment is called for?

 

 

 

Help me understand.

 

 

 

EDIT:

 

oh shut up, you would have done the same in his position.

 

 

 

Couldn't help but see this comment after I decided to skim over the thread again...

 

 

 

Let me just say this... Simple minds say simple things. And people like this I would LOVE to see get banned from this forum. These types of people aren't truely a part of the community. They're no better then the moron(s) who did the bug abusing.

 

 

 

NOTE: Before I get a more direct reply to this reply... I am fully aware that Tip.it does not support the actions of the said offender, but they didn't need to publish (post, type, or whatever...) this crappy interview. For reasons I stated above.


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If there is anyone dumber than a moron, durial in this case, it would have to be a person who whorshiped said moron.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

i couldnt agree more with you hiddel, also if that was me i mean if i was durial i definatly wouldnt take advantage of that situation like think about what if that was you getting attacked with your most prized possesion... :roll:


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Given the same situation, I would have had a hard time not doing the same thing D***** (no name naming :roll: ) did myself. I think we should put things into perspective. He is niether a sociopath nor a psychopath. He went on player killing spree in a game that player killing is as big a part of as is skilling and earning phats. It was actually fun watching that video..too bad for me I wasn't there. I think everyone is blowing this way out of proportion. A short ban is all that is needed for this offence, imo.

 

 

 

Well said.


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you're absolutely right, but tip it posted the interview just so they could give people a glimpse of wat happened.

 

 

 

For tip.it to give a glimpse of what happened they didn't have to post the interview on their website for everyone who didn't know about this too see. in thei next edition of Tip.It times they could of just talked about the bug instead of bringing up that horrible interview. That interview was nothing of professional when I read it. Interviewer's would encourage the person being interviewed to give more facts, but that guy went to far idolizing him. This is Jagex's fault in the first place but after reading what this Durial said about giving items back and he feels bad even though he killed a lot of people knowing the consequences for his account and his victims items. He also gave his partyhat to a friend to hold it for him if he loses that account, that's evidence enough that he didn't plan on giving back items toi players he doesn't probably even remember. Y2g2003 I agree with you- don't bend rules Tip.It, don't name any names or just take that rule out in the first place. Knowing names would be better for the community to know who to avoid so wht did they stop it in the first place? To prevent people from lieing about someone? That's hardly a problem if the guy accused has evidence.

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It's one thing to sympathize with Durial, it's another to treat him like some legend on Runescape. People are acting as if what he did took some sort of genius plan, when really it was just dumb luck. To imply that he'll be marked down in the history of VIDEO GAMING?? Give me a break, there's been tons of bug abusers in the past, and there will be tons more in the future. I also noticed Durial never hesitated to agree with these comments from "The Rat", instead of admitting that he really did nothing special.

 

 

 

To actually try and argue the ban on this guy is absolutely absurd. People are banned for advertising legitimate websites, for transfering 100K to their pures to buy some Addy Arrows. If you aren't banned for blatantly abusing a bug, that not only caused harm to the game, but also DIRECTLY to other players, then there's no action worthy of a ban. Sure, it's a tricky situation to be in, being able to attack players outside the Wild, but there's a million reasons why you should not take advantage of it. I mean, you aren't doing it for the money, since you know your account is going to be wiped away within a few hours. The only reason to be abusing this bug is to cause other players a hard time, and to get attention. So good riddance.


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This is what confuses me, but so many people are saying that. Why do you say that 90% of runescapers would do this if they're guaranteed a ban for doing it? You don't keep the things you get because you get banned. I just don't see how people could gladly throw away the character they spent hundreds of hours working on for an hour of attackign people.

 

 

 

It's the same reason as to why people scam others, even though they know they will more than likely be banned.

 

 

 

Because the allure of riches superceeds everything else. Humans are motivated by greed and self-promotion. We like to think that we aren't, but we are. Anytime there is a chance at acquiring wealth, we take it. Consequences are rarely ever a deterring factor.

 

 

 

To make a real world example, it's the same basis as which people willingly lie, steal, cheat and everything else just to get to the top (I know you've seen them, because some of them end up in jail, like the CEO's of Enron for example). Relating this to Runescape, though, when bugs are discovered people are likely to exploit them.

 

 

 

People exploited the bug which allowed you to attack people who were playing CW's while you were in the lobby.

 

 

 

People exploited the bug which allowed you to attack others inside of the abyss.

 

 

 

People explotied the Guthix rest tea bug.

 

 

 

People exploited the bug allowing you to use a prayer book in no armour duels.

 

 

 

People exploited the bug allowing you to reap the rewards from the Waterfall quest over and over and over again.

 

 

 

The list goes on and on and on. Given the chance, the majority of people would exploit bugs to promote their own self-interests. It's simply human nature. To deny as much would be to lie to yourself.

 

Your examples are flawed. When people do those kinds of things, there's a chance you won't get caught. You do something crazy like rob a bank where there's a huge chance you'll get caught - but there's a chance you won't.

 

In this instance there was no chance he wouldn't get banned by deciding to go on a flat out rampage. If he abused the bug differently more secludedly maybe, but he made himself known and everyone knew what he was doing.

 

So yes, this situation is very different, and your examples don't apply to it. Most people might take advantage of such a situation if there was a chance you wouldn't get caught, but by him doing this the way he did, he knew he would get caught for it.

 

That's what I don't understand. Why someone would do that knowing they'd get banned. Nobody would rob a bank if they knew that cops would be surrounding it. People assess risks when they do things like that, and most people I know wouldn't abuse a system knowing they'd 100% get caught. That's the difference I'm talking about.

 

 

 

And on the other subject, in my opinion the article posted on the main page should be removed now. The forum had it's time where everyone flooded it and it got laggy so it was on the site - but everything's been seen now, so people can go back to viewing it on the forum, and there isn't any need to keep it on the site.

 

I'm only saying this because I just don't like seeing such dirt-quality interviewing on the pages of this high quality site. Even though tip it said that they're not associated with the interview itself, I bet at least 10% of the peopel skipped right to the interview and assumed someone associated with tip it was interviewing the guy. Not that that really matters, but my point is that I just don't think it needs to be there making a spectacle and news of it when it really shouldn't be blown out of proportion.

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