Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Muse

Abortion Opinions (no flaming)

Recommended Posts

 

 

 

 

well if women get raped, its their fault. They should be able to live with their mistakes by suffering along with the baby. Its not like they didn't have a choice in this matter. They chose to be raped, let them deal with the burden of a baby, even if it means being homeless without money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My respect for you has diminshed forever! You are a religeous fanatic with no respect for women and their own feelings and rights

 

 

 

If i was allowed to swear then i would be kicking your wagon right now, and for that comment alone i would have banned you on any of my forums

I could've sworn there was a touch of sarcasm in his post, but...

 

 

 

ok maybe i should have been more elaborate... If my comment made any type of sense, then it shows how messed up people actually are. Its sick to even believe that someone would actually be heartless to women just for people to follow the rules of their own religion.

So I was correct in thinking you were mocking the hard core pro-life?

 

 

 

Yea I guess, this whole abortion issue is really morals based on opinion, government really shouldn't be controlling this.


gr454rc.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

A woman should be able to do what she chooses. So then a woman should be able to choose to steal a car because she wants to?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats a flawed anology, the cars existence has no impact on the womans life or body. It is not a flawed argument from my logical position... Any crime is a crime, and desirves justice. A murderer and a thief are both law breakers. Granted, we humans see some crimes as "worse" then others... But from the position that my King has taken on this issue, I take this position that wrong is wrong. There are not differing degrees of evil. I am no more worthy of God's grace then Hitler, Stalin, or any other person who you would consider "evil." And they had just as much opportunity to recieve God's grace as I did... I was a murderer. I was a thief. I desirved only death. As is the case with every human who has ever lived. All have sinned. All fall short the glory of God. All desirve death. When I condemn abortion, I condemn also theft, pride, hatred, rape, and many, many other things... And to be honest, I condemn my own actions and thoughts many times. I'm not perfect, and won't be this side of eternity, so I am just as much desirving the consiquences of my selfish nature as anybody else. Therefor I can not condemn anybody. I can only condemn the actions that people take, and pray that they come to find the Hope that found me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Who are we to decide that it doesn't desirve the chance to live out its potential because it may follow in its father's shoes?

 

 

 

The only ones trying to enforce their decisions are the pro-lifers. That's because pro-choice has become the negative position, based on the moral relativism that is the hallmark of our post-modern society. Before, it was only pro-choicers who complained about the status-quo.

 

 

 

 

 

 

And ultimately, I suspect that there's at least equal, if not greater psychological scarring from the abortion as from carrying your attacker's child.

 

 

 

Thats why in some countries the decisions are felt up to the women, not pro-lifers who'd rather she be forced to have the child.Are you familliar with the Roe vs Wade case that made abortion "legal" in the United States? Ms. Roe shortly afterwords became adamantly pro-life, because of the psychological damage that her abortion lead to. And she isn't the only one. I have a friend who got an abortion, and litterally hates herself for it. She's the only person I know first hand who's had an abortion, but I suspect that the sentiments are pretty universal, expecailly among women who feel like they were pressured into it by a boy-friend or parents. (Her boyfriend pressured my friend into getting the abortion.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would also point out to Killer_Stone, that we Christians are just as free to choose our religion as anybody else... (Ironic, isn't it, that it was Christain thinkers who came up with this idea? :wink: ) Just because our world-view is a complete opposite to everybody elses' does not invalidate that right. And part of following Christ is standing up for what is true in all arenas, including politics. And I for one am quite glad that perhapes the Church is waking up and realizing that if we continue to allow cultural decay then pretty soon the "land of the free" won't be free any more.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Death_by_Pod, There is no potential in an egg cell, or a sperm cell to become a fully functional human in and of itself. It is only at the moment of conception that there becomes potential for a fully functional human to be born. Because you are clearly not comprehending my position, there is really nothing more to say on this matter, saddly. :( I would point out though, that there is not a single known species that could even come close to qualifying as "human" by my deffinition that reproduces asexually.


"He is no fool who gives up that which he can not keep to gain that which he can not lose."

--Jim Elliot

 

"You must picture me alone in that room in Magdalen, night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England. I did not then see what is now the most shining and obvious thing; the Divine humility which will accept a convert even on such terms. The Prodical Son at least walked home on his own two feet. But who can duly adore that love which will open the high gates to a prodigal who is brought in kicking, struggling, resentful, and darting his eyes in every direction for a chance of escape? The words compelle intrare, compel them to come in, have been so abused by wicked men that we shudder at them; but, properly understood, they plumb the depth of the Divine mercy. The hardness of God is kinder than the softness of men, and His compulsion is our liberation."

--C.S.Lewis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I dont think its right.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These are the only reasons i think it should be permitted:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-if its going to be life threating to the mother

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-pregnancy was cause by rape

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-the family cannot offard the child without filing backrupcy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We are pretty much in agreement then-except b. :?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other than that i dont think they should be able to have an abortion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry but my reasonings preclude any form of birth control; because quite frankly, if someone is that close to bankruptcy in the first place shouldn't birth control be on the forefront of their minds.

 

 

 

Aside from that, human life doesn't have a price in my opinion.

 

 

 

**There are millions waiting to adopt who don't have the luxury (and aren't going bankrupt) of physically being able to reproduce.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, did you not know that condoms can break? The pill does not always work either.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And if abortion is so bad, why use birth control aswell, you're stopping a possible human life. OMGZ0rz *cry* down with condoms!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Incase you havn't figured my view point on this, I think that abortion should be allowed, but only before a certain time frame)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And a topic on this has already been done, got up to 20+ pages.


ledzeppelin1jl6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
but when you take birth control you havnt already started a life thats the difference

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Eggs and sperm are both alive, if you prevent them from meeting, sounds like you're "stopping that life from happening."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I'm not an opponent of birth control. The way I see the issue, if you're opposed to abortion, you should probably be opposed to birth control as well, if you're looking to maintain a consistant platform.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to ask a few questions to the "pro-life" people out there. (Only applicable to Americans really)

 

 

 

1. Do you believe that abortion is wrong because it is "a sin"?

 

 

 

2. Do you believe it is right to impose that belief on other people who do not share your moral or religious background?

 

 

 

3. Are you aware that one of the base tenants of this country is freedom from religious persecution?

 

 

 

4. Do you see how this might be construed as conflicting?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To play devil's advocate to my own position: It seems like one of the main arguments about supporting abortion is if the woman gets raped and becomes pregnant. The stats I've found online state that only about 0.1%-0.2% of sexual assaults result in a pregnancy. Basing an entire policy off of one or two tenths of a percent of a selected population isn't very sound judgement. Obviously, it should be allowed for them, but as an overall argument, it isn't very convincing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Death_by_Pod, There is no potential in an egg cell, or a sperm cell to become a fully functional human in and of itself. It is only at the moment of conception that there becomes potential for a fully functional human to be born. Because you are clearly not comprehending my position, there is really nothing more to say on this matter, saddly. :( I would point out though, that there is not a single known species that could even come close to qualifying as "human" by my deffinition that reproduces asexually.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem here is that you are excluding us as being unique (or outside of classification). However we are interconnected in the vast web of animals some look different, act different or reproduce different. If you want to ignore this simple fact then there is very little I can do as I canÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢t persuade someone stuck in a different mentality. Like you said it's your definition and quite frankly it is rather different to many others (hell my definition could be that foetusÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s become alive when they are born therefore I win but I'm not playing like this). I would have thought that the fact that these species all lie in the same kingdom (Animalia) that would prove that they are living and are in some way human (in the form of some shared traits).

 

 

 

Thus if we are interconnected with animals that have the ability to asexual reproduce then potential would existent in all sex cells regardless of ability. Can you apply the Potential model to asexual animals? How do things such as fragmentation and regeneration signify a transfer of potential? It just becomes way too messy and vauge.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bottom line is, if it's made illegal, people are going to get it done illegally and in unhygenic conditions. Go take your flower power somewhere else.


ledzeppelin1jl6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bottom line is, if it's made illegal, people are going to get it done illegally and in unhygenic conditions. Go take your flower power somewhere else.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

that argument can be made for just about everything that's illegal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Heard of any illegal medical procedures lately that can be extreamly hazardous to your health if carried out in someones backyard under unsteryle(sp) conditions?


ledzeppelin1jl6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Heard of any illegal medical procedures lately that can be extreamly hazardous to your health if carried out in someones backyard under unsteryle(sp) conditions?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cloning one's self, freezing your body (or someone else's) for the future, kidney stealing; basically anything. It's not just abortion but that is what we are trying to talk about here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Heard of any illegal medical procedures lately that can be extreamly hazardous to your health if carried out in someones backyard under unsteryle(sp) conditions?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cloning one's self, freezing your body (or someone else's) for the future, kidney stealing; basically anything. It's not just abortion but that is what we are trying to talk about here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They're the sort of things not many people will want to do (pirates, mad scientists, and nutters), how many woman would still want to get abortions even if it was made illegal? I'm going to take a wild guess at alot.


ledzeppelin1jl6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bumping this because it has come to my attention that South Dakota has signed into law a bill banning most abortions. That means it a crime for doctors to perform terminations. Exceptions will be made if a woman's life is at risk, but not in cases of rape or incest. BBC

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is discusting and I am sad that a law such as this has even been allowed to pass. If a country tried this in Europe the European Court of Human rights would have quashed this illegal law.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If anyone here lives in SD that could provide more information on this subject i'd really appreciate hearing about it. Thanks.


612d9da508.png

Mercifull.png

Mercifull <3 Suzi

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's sick. How could a state pass a law like that :barf:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am of the opinion that retroactive abortion of those responsible for such laws is necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe abortions should be allowed in cases of rape and the case where the mother's life is endagered; but incest? Are you saying that since the child would be messed up, it would be better that they never experience life at all? Would you actually walk up to a mentally challenged person and say that it would have been better they never been born - to their face?


summerpngwy6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've seen it done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've seen it done.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's pretty heartless, and arrogant. Who are they to decide the value of that person's life to be negative?


summerpngwy6.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mercifull, why is the law illegal? If the state passes it into law, and most people in the state support it, surely it should be allowed to stand. The amendments in certain states "defining marriage" make me sick, but I understand that those states had the right to make them. And since I don't live in those states, it's not up to me to decide what their laws are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to ask a few questions to the "pro-life" people out there. (Only applicable to Americans really)

 

 

 

1. Do you believe that abortion is wrong because it is "a sin"?

 

 

 

2. Do you believe it is right to impose that belief on other people who do not share your moral or religious background?

 

 

 

3. Are you aware that one of the base tenants of this country is freedom from religious persecution?

 

 

 

4. Do you see how this might be construed as conflicting?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) No, I believe it's wrong because murder should not be legal. It is murder because after six weeks or so (before which almost no abortions occur), the fetus has a developed nervous system.

 

 

 

2) Yes, I think the government has the burden of inflicting certain basic laws on the people - ie. no murder.

 

 

 

3) I agree that freedom from religious persecution is very important.

 

 

 

4) No :P


Everybody hug and spread the love :D

 

siggypooro0.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@mad: I'm not sure why, something about overall civil rights in the USA and Human Rights in general.

 

 

 

I'll leave it to Matt to answer it though - he seems to know where to find all the info about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It is murder because after six weeks or so (before which almost no abortions occur), the fetus has a developed nervous system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Flies have a nervous system, does that make it murder when they are swatted? Having a nervous system does not equal sentience.


Some people are changed by being a moderator. I wouldn't be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rick is right, I personally belive it is illegal because it contravenes human rights and I dont belive state law should have presedent over that.


612d9da508.png

Mercifull.png

Mercifull <3 Suzi

"We don't want players to be able to buy their way to success in RuneScape. If we let players start doing this, it devalues RuneScape for others. We feel your status in real-life shouldn't affect your ability to be successful in RuneScape" Jagex 01/04/01 - 02/03/12

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im Pro-Life in all cases except for those lets say the woman is raped or anything along those lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a ludicrous double-standard, so the unborn child of a woman who had consensual sex is somehow less entitled to live than the unborn child of one who was raped? They are exactly the same bar the semantics of how they got there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not 'pro-life', merely pointing out the double standards.


Some people are changed by being a moderator. I wouldn't be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest GhostRanger
Mercifull, why is the law illegal? If the state passes it into law, and most people in the state support it, surely it should be allowed to stand. The amendments in certain states "defining marriage" make me sick, but I understand that those states had the right to make them. And since I don't live in those states, it's not up to me to decide what their laws are.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to ask a few questions to the "pro-life" people out there. (Only applicable to Americans really)

 

 

 

1. Do you believe that abortion is wrong because it is "a sin"?

 

 

 

2. Do you believe it is right to impose that belief on other people who do not share your moral or religious background?

 

 

 

3. Are you aware that one of the base tenants of this country is freedom from religious persecution?

 

 

 

4. Do you see how this might be construed as conflicting?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) No, I believe it's wrong because murder should not be legal. It is murder because after six weeks or so (before which almost no abortions occur), the fetus has a developed nervous system.

 

 

 

2) Yes, I think the government has the burden of inflicting certain basic laws on the people - ie. no murder.

 

 

 

3) I agree that freedom from religious persecution is very important.

 

 

 

4) No :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would even suggest that before six weeks there are signs of human life. A heart beat in 13 days, for instance. I'd even argue that as soon as the baby has DNA of its own, its a new being. Well done Mad. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To answer those questions myself:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Do you have any morals at all? Why for instance do you think its wrong to do some things? Do you believe stealing or murder is wrong?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) Do you know what laws are? Not everyone agrees with laws we have in our contry - that is shown through the fact that we have criminals. Should we impose our belief that stealing is wrong through the use of the government against those who think they should be able to steal?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3) Why do you continuously associate abortion and religion? There are plenty of atheists that have morals and values and believe that murdering unborn babies is wrong. You don't have to be religious to believe in right and wrong. In fact, I'm sure that you agree with most of the laws our government offers. Why is abortion the only law that you associate with religious morality? All laws are a basis of some form of community morality - abortion is no different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) No. In order for you to maintain a consistant opinion, you would have to assert that you yourself believe that we should have NO laws because someone out there might not think its wrong. All laws stem from morality. You don't have to be religious to have morals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would like to ask a few questions to the "pro-life" people out there. (Only applicable to Americans really)

 

 

 

1. Do you believe that abortion is wrong because it is "a sin"?

 

 

 

2. Do you believe it is right to impose that belief on other people who do not share your moral or religious background?

 

 

 

3. Are you aware that one of the base tenants of this country is freedom from religious persecution?

 

 

 

4. Do you see how this might be construed as conflicting?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. Not at all. Abortion itself is not a sin, but murdering falls under the 10 commandments. I believe full well that life begins at contreception. We consider single-celled organisms to be life, yes? What sets apart this single-celled organism is the fact that it WILL be a child.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2. I do not have the right to impose my views on others. That would be vigilanteism. But the government has that right. If the majority of the people in a state wish something to happen that is within consitutional means, I see no problem with it happening.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

3. Very much aware, and that works both ways. Everyone talks about the moral conservative Christians running this country into the ground. As a moral conservative Christian, I am persecuted everyday by non-Christians. Abortion is not entirely a religious matter, however. Regardless of if you are religious or not, that baby is still alive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4. No.


Untitled.png

My heart is broken by the terrible loss I have sustained in my old friends and companions and my poor soldiers. Believe me, nothing except a battle lost can be half so melancholy as a battle won. -Sir Arthur Wellesley

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.