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r2-pleasent
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well to be honest i think hes brilliant. Although he did get banned, i would say the entire manipulative part of it was amazing. Although many find this sly, that in fact is what a true merchant is. He was an amazing merchant and although he is no longer a part of these forums he still has my respect.

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this is truely a great story. it should be stickied somewhere to give inspiration to other people when they give up. i always like r2p, i used to see him stood slightly away from the other merchants at the very top of fally park and having his scouts run around all the time. if you are still playing now then i hope you become even greater.

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I said it before and I'll say it again-

 

 

 

This moron deserves nothing in the way of respect.

 

 

 

1) There was clearly either very few half wines in existence compared to most other rares OR many of them in the hands of very very few people, which made it much much easier to pull this off

 

 

 

2) The ease of this scheme was magnified exponentially by the fact that the average age of a Runescape player is somewhere in the low teens

 

 

 

3) Price manipulation is illegal both in the real world and in Runescape- there's a reason kids get banned for spamming forums with rumors about price changes because so and so happened

 

 

 

4) The fact that he is in fact NOT the CEO of a major corporation is an indication of his non-skills- trying this in the real world will either cause you to be eaten alive by the people you're trying to give the shaft to or will land you in jail

 

 

 

5) I'm guessing with 99% certainty that he got banned from everywhere for real world trading that he is STILL doing (google his name and you'll find it), meaning he is helping prop up the macros and farmers that very many of you hate with a passion

 

 

 

6) The scheme was neither complicated or difficult to pull off. What kind of half-wine owner would say "no, i dislike the idea of having my rare shoot up in value. Screw you pleasent!"?

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Thats the second time I've read that (didn't remember till part way through) and it is very interesting, christ, you said what you wanted to say, saying it twice is erally just spam. Thank you ego for bumping this thread as that is one of only two bumps of an old thread I've seen that actually adds something new to the conversation.

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I said it before and I'll say it again-

 

 

 

This moron deserves nothing in the way of respect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight but I can't say that I completely agree with you.

 

 

 

First off I agree that price manipulation isn't right in real life.

 

 

 

But Runescape is a game. And the point of a game is to have fun and do good in it.

 

 

 

I understand that Runescape involves real people but it is still a game.

 

 

 

So what R2Pleasent did was in fact in the nature of "playing a game" he got good at it and had fun.

 

 

 

Next, life is about choices. If people fall for these manipulations it is there choice.

 

 

 

The big point I want to make is:

 

 

 

If you have a problem with what R2Pleasent did then you have to have a problem with rares in general. Every person who owns a rare or has owned a rare has taken part in a manipulation. The real worth of an item is the amount of gold you get for it when you high alch it.

 

 

 

Rares were introduced for the purpose of fun. And people turned it into something else.

 

 

 

So I'm not saying you are wrong but I don't completely agree with you. R2Pleasent was banned so I don't see the point in bashing him further. What's done is done. In the end it's a game. Don't get to caught up in it.

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I'm a little shocked at all the people proclaiming that price manipulation is obviously illegal and immoral in real life. There are many different methods of price manipulation in real life, the one thing that they all have in common is that they are widely practiced. Some are illegal and widespread, some are legal and widespread, some are not regulated by law and widespread. The computer that you are reading this on is probably using MS windows, a product whose price has been manipulated via exercise of monopolistic power. The computers were on average built in China, which artificially manipulates the value of its currency relative to the US dollar to prop up its exports. The oil used to bring the computer to your door was mostly from middle eastern countries, which formed the cartel OPEC to manipulate the price of oil. The internet connection to serve you this page is supplied by a small number of providers which engage in collusive practices to charge you as much money as possible by artificially restricting the bandwidth they construct. The frozen treat you are consuming while reading this post was made from corn syrup, because the price of corn is kept artificially low through the Nixon farm subsidy reforms. Are you getting the point yet? Real world = price manipulation, end of story. (if you're reading this in a country other than the US, the examples are mostly US based but the general principles are found in every country)

 

 

 

I will submit as an addendum that the rule against price manipulation on the official forums seems to me a good rule, but only because the absence of that rule would serve to generate tons of useless spam on the forums, even more than already exist there. It seems quite likely to me that this reason is also Jagex's reason for posting such a rule, and so the extrapolation of the immorality of price manipulation from this forum rule is a flawed inference. Perhaps Jagex has other rules against price manipulation, and i'm just not recalling them at this moment, but I doubt it.

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But Runescape is a game. And the point of a game is to have fun and do good in it.

 

 

 

How did he do good in his organization of a half wine "cartel", and price manipulating all half wine and other rare owners?

 

 

 

I understand that Runescape involves real people but it is still a game.

 

 

 

Yes, it is a game. A game with rules, made so that the largest protion of people possible can enjoy this game.

 

 

 

So what R2Pleasent did was in fact in the nature of "playing a game" he got good at it and had fun.

 

 

 

He got good at breaking rules, rules that effect other players more then any. Oh, he had fun, sorry, it was all ok then. :roll:

 

 

 

Next, life is about choices. If people fall for these manipulations it is there choice.

 

 

 

Definition-Manipulation-

 

verb

 

1. influence or control shrewdly or deviously; "He manipulated public opinion in his favor"

 

2. hold something in one's hands and move it

 

3. tamper, with the purpose of deception; "falsify the data"

 

4. manipulate in a fraudulent manner; "rig prices" [syn]

 

5. control (others or oneself) or influence skillfully, usually to one's advantage;

 

 

 

Explain to me how someone could possibly CHOOSE to fall for any kind of manipulation. The point of a manipulation is to trick someone into doing something without them knowing. Sure, luring someone into the wild is obvious to avoid. But manipulating prices of a very rare item? help me out here...... :-k

 

 

 

The big point I want to make is:

 

 

 

If you have a problem with what R2Pleasent did then you have to have a problem with rares in general.

 

 

 

I have a problem with what he did, yet I still like the idea of rares. They are a goal for players to acheive. They allow richer players to have a place to store moeny, and a way to show off.

 

 

 

Every person who owns a rare or has owned a rare has taken part in a manipulation.

 

 

 

How? did they buy it, then later try to have all their friends sell the same rare above or below the current price? Most people buy rares to invest, or as an acheivment they worked for, not to merchant(which is different from manipulation.)

 

 

 

The real worth of an item is the amount of gold you get for it when you high alch it.

 

 

 

Incorrect, by that statement, whips would sell for 72k, dragon chains for 150k, etc. The purpose of high alch is not to set a price for an items worth. Any item is only worth what another person will pay for it, not what a group of people manipulate the price to.

 

 

 

Rares were introduced for the purpose of fun. And people turned it into something else.

 

 

 

Rares were never introduced. Holiday items were. They were introduced to be fun. THey became rare when people realized after a certain date, no more would enter the game. People realized this, and over time they became rare, and therefore a symbol of wealth.

 

 

 

So I'm not saying you are wrong but I don't completely agree with you. R2Pleasent was banned so I don't see the point in bashing him further. What's done is done. In the end it's a game. Don't get to caught up in it.

 

 

 

Yes, he was banned. For doing the very things he posted about. Sure, it is done, but the point of this entire board is to discuss things "that were done". Yes it is a game, but it is a game that takes dedication, and hours of time. I don't want my time in the game wasted by a group of players breaking rules.

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How did he do good in his organization of a half wine "cartel", and price manipulating all half wine and other rare owners?

 

 

 

It's likely that he meant "do well", not "do good".

 

 

 

He got good at breaking rules, rules that effect other players more then any. Oh, he had fun, sorry, it was all ok then. :roll:

 

 

 

which rule did he break?

 

 

 

Explain to me how someone could possibly CHOOSE to fall for any kind of manipulation. The point of a manipulation is to trick someone into doing something without them knowing. Sure, luring someone into the wild is obvious to avoid. But manipulating prices of a very rare item? help me out here...... :-k

 

 

 

They made a choice. The result of that choice was to go along with the price manipulation. The fact that they didn't realize what the result of their choice would be doesn't negate they fact that they made a choice. No one ever has perfect knowledge before making a choice, that's life.

 

 

 

Here's an example. Let's say I'm selling you a sandwich, and I know you're allergic to ham. Sadly, my sandwich is ham. If I trick you into believing the sandwich isn't ham, then I have manipulated you into believing a falsehood. To be perfectly clear, remember that it's possible for me to manipulate you into believing that without ever making that exact claim, which would be straight out lying.

 

 

 

Now let's examine the manipulation of someone to believe that the sky is red, not blue. Now, upon first examination, this sounds exactly the same as the first example. But the sky is basically the best example of blue out there, if I convince you that the sky is red while you are looking right at the sky, have I manipulated you into believing a falsehood about the color of the sky, or have I manipulated you into switching the names for the colors red and blue?

 

 

 

Our final example, manipulating everyone to believe that the price of half wines is 30m instead of 9m. What exactly is the difference between the price of half wines, and what everyone thinks the price of half wines is? Personally, I see no difference at all. Therefore, it is impossible to convince everyone of a falsehood about the price of half wines, as their beliefs are tautologically the same as the price, such a falsehood is an obvious contradiction.

 

 

 

So, we've established four categories of manipulation of another's ideas, a direct lie, a manipulation to believe a objectively falsifiable statement without lying, a manipulation to believe a nonfalsifiable statement of negative social utility due to inconsistency with current social standards, and a manipulation to achieve a nonfalsifiable statement that changes current social standards. Or more simply, 1-lying, 2-lying without actually lying, 3-something that sounds and acts like a lie despite not really being a lie, and 4-convincing everyone to believe the same new lie instead of the same old lie.

 

 

 

Manipulating someone else's ideas is certainly similar to lying, but it's not exactly the same, and you haven't even made a coherent moral argument as to why lying is wrong. Many moral systems not only allow, but strictly require lying, and most people lie, so this is a grievous omission on your part.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, he was banned. For doing the very things he posted about. Sure, it is done, but the point of this entire board is to discuss things "that were done". Yes it is a game, but it is a game that takes dedication, and hours of time. I don't want my time in the game wasted by a group of players breaking rules.

 

 

 

Didn't he say he was banned for RWT, not manipulations? He said he didn't want to discuss it any further, and it's not relevant, so drop it.

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Extraordinary that 1 man can do so much.

 

Amasing talent too; Its a shame to see that account lost but also great to see you have returned. Goodluck with future 'scaping!

 

 

 

Mate this topic is 8 months old...

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I am happy that the rares exist. Most people do not realise that you can do the exact same manipulations for raw materials that skillers use. And I would really hate that happening.

 

I never had any rare, they take up too much bankspace and have bad stats.

 

Having too much money leads to having 99 smith with level 30 mining and seems hollow to me. All "bought" skills devaluate as fast as the rares inflate.

 

I only respect "bought" skills like smith, craft and herblore from people who have 13 mill+ runecraft exp. Although that runecraft can also be bought...

 

I am sure that the dedication to make RS money can be translated to the real world. But I would love that people like you manipulate the game Runescape in finding faster ways to level skills without breaking rules and without taking advantage of other players.

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price manipulation isnt illegal as far as i know, atleast in the game.

 

only bad thing about it is that people who dont know whats goign on end up losing... a lot.

 

 

 

and to be honest, manipulation isnt the read why r2 was banned either.

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even if its 8 months old its a good read

 

i knew very early on in my playing days that the game is so easy to manipulate. at one time the rune market (smithing)was manipulated.

 

the games full off insane greedy people why not play on it .not that i would myself manipulate for personal gain.

 

 

 

Interesting how once you have such a hold on one item (even if it dont exist), some influence ( trust worthy freinds), and a little luck (knowing the score) you can manipulate the prices(game) so effectively.

 

 

 

this thread has made me think about writeing my manipulation story(nothing got traded or sold in my story)

 

never banned no black marks and x pmod my choice

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WOW, that story was amazing! You knew what you were doing right from the get-go! I never knew the entire rares market could be so heavily influenced by one person :shock: !

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