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Notorious_Ice

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Now when you read this topic, don't get the god in the bible confused, with a higher being. All the bible is, is the christian story of god. If the bible is wrong, there can still be a higher being, but with a different story.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note, this is a thread about the bible: christians story of god. I don't want this to turn into yet another 20 pages of whether there is a god/higher being or not. If anyone posts something like that I will report it, as it is offtopic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I think the bible is flawed for a few reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

According to the bible, the world is 6000 years old. Yet, it is PROVEN the world is approximately 4.5 billion years old. Fossils, examinations of the earths crust say that the world is billions of years old. Some people with a voice in their head is all the proof it is 6000 years old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here is another point in which shows the world cannot be 6000 years old:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please, explain to me how the light from the distant stars is here. How can we see anything in the universe past our own solar system. We simply wouldn't be able to, for light wouldn't have had enough time to travel this far.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Another point, is dinosaurs. The bible does in fact mention mythological beasts, whether it is talking about dinosaurs or not is irrelivent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A biblical day(when god created the earth) may have a different meaning, timewise, than our 24 hour system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It wouldn't make sense if they had big days, as the bible includes sentences such as "he travelled for X days" If in fact, the days back then were big enough to account for the billions of years this earth has been around for, in this 'X days' he would have been dead in the first day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fossils are billions of 'today's years' old, but apparently the bible is 6000 years old. I explained above about the argument about different sized days cannot be true, so if you believe in the bible, you cannot believe in dinosaurs. Which have been proven, you might as well not believe in gravity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There have been many religions over the centuries. Each religion can be baught down to 2 reasons, one of which is morals.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Religion works great as a set of moral guidelines untill people start killing each other over whose god is better, or untill those guidelines become outdated. Christians aren't killing off vast numbers of any other religion at the moment (except Muslims, and that doesn't count because our motive is oil, not religious zeal, though you could make a case that the Middle Eastern conflict is a modern day crusade for the holy land). So is Christianity completely outdated?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Muslim rational for not eating pigs is that they are "Dirty" animals and it is not gods will for us to eat them. This may have made sense thousands or even hundreds of years ago, when pigs may have had bacteria in them that could cause certain diseases. This is not true today. The Christian rational for not having sex before marriage is that it is gods will for us to create families and not have sex before marriage. This may have made sense hundreds of years ago when sex before marriage created unwanted children and social decay. It is not true today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The other reason is to explain what science and technology can't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One example is the ancient egyptions. They did not have the science and technology to know how the sun rose and set, it appeared to them to move across the sky. So they invented a god that moved the sun across the sky. Today we know that is [cabbage], and the Earth revolves around the sun - which is why it appears to move across the sky. We know this because of the science and technology we have today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets briefly compare a story of the bible, to a religious story we have today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The sun moving across the sky in ancient egypt, and jesus being the son of god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They both took true facts. There was really a man called jesus who claimed to be the son of god. And the sun does in fact appear to move across the sky. And then turned them into stories to explain what science and technology can't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A god passes through 12 gates, fights a serpent and carries the sun across the sky, and A man called Jesus claimed to be the son of god and performed mericles. (sp)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My question: How is the Ancient Egyptions religion, which we all know is rubbish, any different to the stories in the bible? There are in fact still people today who believe in ancient religions, because of faith even though they are wrong, and that is all that christianity is.

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Eh, we have a ton of proof, but every highly religious person will just take each claim and find some backwards way of saying it's possible it didn't happen, or take a line from the bible and say it could have suggested otherwise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I think the bible is flawed for a few reasons.

 

 

 

I wouldn't call its messages flawed. It was just written a long time ago, and should be used for general moral lessons, with the fact that it was written a long time kept in mind.

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They're not different at all. Egyptian religion and The Jewish/Christian God's religion are effectively the same thing. The "proof" for the Bible for religious people comes with the fact that it describes actual places in it that we know to have existed. Sadly for them, there is a HUGE difference between some place existing, and God being real.

The popularity of any given religion today depends on the victories of the wars they fought in the past.

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I would like to point out that in the Bible it is okay to own slaves, and (for guys) to stone your wife to death if she wasn't a virgin on the wedding day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Err....end of Hollywood?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would like to point out that the bible is thousands of years old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most of the messages the bible tells are good, even if the storys are largly ficticious (sp?). The only thing is some of them are really only aplicable for back when it was written.

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Stone person a for action z.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If person X sins then he must take a 2 year female goat, with no deformities, strike off the head and wipe two strokes of blood on the altar and 3 strokes on the left ear. Then burn the incese and lamb to make an aroma pleasing to the Lord.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will cover your face withy my hand while I, the Lord, pass you or you will die by looking at me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Take a 21/2 year old male donkey, no deformities and go to the top of hill X, make an altar and sacrifice your son.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just some, IMHO, the most rediculous things the Bible contains.

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The Bible makes a good moral-guidance thing, but, as has been said, should not be taken TOO seriously.

 

 

 

Even if you're not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim, you will probably agree with most of the morals presented in it. Also, in a purely literary sense, there's some interesting writing in there, too.

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Most of the messages the bible tells are good, even if the storys are largly ficticious (sp?). The only thing is some of them are really only aplicable for back when it was written.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly, perhaps the bible is getting outdated. Back then pretty much everybody swore by everything in it. Nowadays, not only do people not believe the stories occured, but some of the morals do not apply in todays world. Maybe christianity is slowly dying, just like every religion has.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if a new religion is going to 'take over' in the next couple hundred years. Small secretive groups have their own religions everywhere, perhaps one will eventually catch on.

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Personally I think the bible is flawed for a few reasons.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

According to the bible, the world is 6000 years old. Yet, it is PROVEN the world is approximately 4.5 billion years old. Fossils, examinations of the earths crust say that the world is billions of years old. Some people with a voice in their head is all the proof it is 6000 years old.

 

 

 

It was written by people who lived thousands of years ago who had none of the information that we have to prove the history of the earth...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A biblical day(when god created the earth) may have a different meaning, timewise, than our 24 hour system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It wouldn't make sense if they had big days, as the bible includes sentences such as "he travelled for X days" If in fact, the days back then were big enough to account for the billions of years this earth has been around for, in this 'X days' he would have been dead in the first day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fossils are billions of 'today's years' old, but apparently the bible is 6000 years old. I explained above about the argument about different sized days cannot be true, so if you believe in the bible, you cannot believe in dinosaurs. Which have been proven, you might as well not believe in gravity.

 

 

 

Ever realize how those two parts were written by people who lived centuries, maybe a thousand+ years apart...? "Day" can have many meanings, you know that, right?... Right? Little conformation would be nice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There have been many religions over the centuries. Each religion can be baught down to 2 reasons, one of which is morals.

 

 

 

=D> You're getting it! It's a MORAL GUIDEBOOK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The other reason is to explain what science and technology can't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One example is the ancient egyptions. They did not have the science and technology to know how the sun rose and set, it appeared to them to move across the sky. So they invented a god that moved the sun across the sky. Today we know that is [cabbage], and the Earth revolves around the sun - which is why it appears to move across the sky. We know this because of the science and technology we have today.

 

 

 

People use gods to explain what they do not understand, or to fill needs. We still do that today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, the Bible is complete bull because of something not only the Egyptians, but basically everyone from the almighty Romans to the Greeks did? They're just describing the beliefs of the time, are you saying we shouldn't watch history documentaries about Egyptian beliefs because that documentary is, in your opinion, bull because of the information it analyzes and describes? =D>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lets briefly compare a story of the bible, to a religious story we have today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The sun moving across the sky in ancient egypt, and jesus being the son of god.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They both took true facts. There was really a man called jesus who claimed to be the son of god. And the sun does in fact appear to move across the sky. And then turned them into stories to explain what science and technology can't.

 

 

 

Didn't everyone back then do that?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A god passes through 12 gates, fights a serpent and carries the sun across the sky, and A man called Jesus claimed to be the son of god and performed mericles. (sp)

 

 

 

Yet another metaphor(s) with meaning(s) behind it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My question: How is the Ancient Egyptions religion, which we all know is rubbish, any different to the stories in the bible? There are in fact still people today who believe in ancient religions, because of faith even though they are wrong, and that is all that christianity is.

 

 

 

The stories of the Bible are there for their MEANINGS and GUIDANCE. They are a guide for a good, united human race. Stop hating on it for technicalities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I'm agreeing that most of the Bible doesn't actually contain factual data about the world and it's history. Still doesn't change my opinion that these attacks on the Bible are meaningless, as your are attacking the meaningless part anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and way to commit suicide in the last sentence of your post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: For all we know, Ra and the Egyptian gods are real. Just want to point that out :-$ .

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Well,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Could it be possible that a day 4.5billion years ago(god created the earth in 6 days..blahblahblah) a day could be 500million days, in our days, if that makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:anxious:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. I am Christan O:)

 

 

 

Lol, don't even try that. "Days" in this sense means something along the lines of "steps"; look at the Seven Days, there's no way they're all equal time spans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, work on your math :P .

[if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or

by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.]

 

Fullmetal Alchemist, you will be missed. A great ending to a great series.

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[ =D> You're getting it! It's a MORAL GUIDEBOOK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amen to that. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have no problem with the bible, only the overwhelming minority of the Christian population who try to defend it's words as fact by trying to disprove things such as evolution. Now how they do this is completely incorrect science; they have thier conclusion already and try and fabricate the evidence suited to support thier argument which not only takes things out of context, but trys to disprove actual honest science. Science never trys to disprove anything or anyone, it merely happens to overwrite old theories when new ones come along. That's why I believe science is above and beyond the tactics fundamentalists use.

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[ =D> You're getting it! It's a MORAL GUIDEBOOK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amen to that. :P

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have no problem with the bible, only the overwhelming minority of the Christian population who try to defend it's words as fact by trying to disprove things such as evolution. Now how they do this is completely incorrect science; they have thier conclusion already and try and fabricate the evidence suited to support thier argument which not only takes things out of context, but trys to disprove actual honest science. Science never trys to disprove anything or anyone, it merely happens to overwrite old theories when new ones come along. That's why I believe science is above and beyond the tactics fundamentalists use.

 

 

 

As do I. And yes, fundamentalists are a rare race within the Christian community, nowadays anyways. Even my psycho fundamentalist teach' still agrees that Creatinism and Evolution are one in the same.

[if you have ever attempted Alchemy by clapping your hands or

by drawing an array, copy and paste this into your signature.]

 

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Geez, if you people want to see how reliable the Bible is, go get the book by Lee Strobal called Case for Christ, it was written by an athiest (sp?) who went to Yale law school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And for those of you still clinging to the outdated theory of evolution, scientists have proved so many of its points to be false or have million-to-one-odds of happening that it's been proven false.

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Geez, if you people want to see how reliable the Bible is, go get the book by Lee Strobal called Case for Christ, it was written by an athiest (sp?) who went to Yale law school.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And for those of you still clinging to the outdated theory of evolution, scientists have proved so many of its points to be false or have million-to-one-odds of happening that it's been proven false.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On the evolution point, quite the contrary my friend. Read up on it, please. Something just struck me. Why is it that the only people you will ever see trying to disprove evolution are fundamentalists. Coincidence? I think not.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Click me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Click me.

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It's too bad that religion has been corrupted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ie if you were actually completely Christian, and you believed in everything Jesus said (he appears to embody the principles and ideas of Christianity the best, imo), then they would never fight, never war, never commit crimes...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They would live as he did. Even in the face of death or the annihilation of Christianity altogether, they should turn the other cheek (unless, of course, there were a peaceful way of resolving the situation).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same goes for the other religions, mostly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gods never die. They are merely forgotten. I'd like to forget them all.

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It's too bad that religion has been corrupted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ie if you were actually completely Christian, and you believed in everything Jesus said (he appears to embody the principles and ideas of Christianity the best, imo), then they would never fight, never war, never commit crimes...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They would live as he did. Even in the face of death or the annihilation of Christianity altogether, they should turn the other cheek (unless, of course, there were a peaceful way of resolving the situation).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same goes for the other religions, mostly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gods never die. They are merely forgotten. I'd like to forget them all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you never fought, or never commited crimes. Then you couldn't be a full-fledged human. Trying to imitate someone to that level is impossible.

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It was written by people who lived thousands of years ago who had none of the information that we have to prove the history of the earth...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly. If the bible is truely the word of god, why would god lie about something that he made?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ever realize how those two parts were written by people who lived centuries, maybe a thousand+ years apart...? "Day" can have many meanings, you know that, right?... Right? Little conformation would be nice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"Day" has always been a measure of time. The only way it would work out is if their "day" was much much bigger than ours, in fact around 30000 times bigger. Theres no way the stories in the bible would make sense if by "day" they ment 30000 modern days.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People use gods to explain what they do not understand, or to fill needs. We still do that today.
Give an example please? One less than a few hundred years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're getting it! It's a MORAL GUIDEBOOK.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you read the part about some morals being outdated?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, the Bible is complete bull because of something not only the Egyptians, but basically everyone from the almighty Romans to the Greeks did? They're just describing the beliefs of the time, are you saying we shouldn't watch history documentaries about Egyptian beliefs because that documentary is, in your opinion, bull because of the information it analyzes and describes?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I think documentaries are interesting because It shows their way of life. I used that as an example of a religion used to explain the unexplainable, that was almost abandoned because we have the technology they lacked today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Didn't everyone back then do that?

 

 

 

=D> That was my point. It makes religion back then, no different to the religion today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yet another metaphor(s) with meaning(s) behind it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, they really did think a serpent went through 12 gates and fought a serpent every day. They had an explanation for how the earth came to be, and it is completely different to christians, all religions are different. what makes is the one that is true?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The stories of the Bible are there for their MEANINGS and GUIDANCE. They are a guide for a good, united human race. Stop hating on it for technicalities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I already talked about moral issues, but since it was written so long ago the morals are getting to be outdated. The technicalities im talking about is because the stories in the bible didn't actually happen, but some people think they did.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I'm agreeing that most of the Bible doesn't actually contain factual data about the world and it's history. Still doesn't change my opinion that these attacks on the Bible are meaningless, as your are attacking the meaningless part anyways.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You have missed my point. The only thing I am attacking is the stories in the bible are thaught to have happened. Which looks to be your opinion too. That leaves the bible for morals, I said the morals are getting outdated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh, and way to commit suicide in the last sentence of your post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All that last sentence concluded was that there is no difference between religions proved wrong, and the ones that people swear by today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

or all we know, Ra and the Egyptian gods are real. Just want to point that out

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course they could be real, its extremely improbable, but they could be real. That was not my point. A god carrying the sun across the sky isn't real, that was my point.

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It's too bad that religion has been corrupted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

ie if you were actually completely Christian, and you believed in everything Jesus said (he appears to embody the principles and ideas of Christianity the best, imo), then they would never fight, never war, never commit crimes...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They would live as he did. Even in the face of death or the annihilation of Christianity altogether, they should turn the other cheek (unless, of course, there were a peaceful way of resolving the situation).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same goes for the other religions, mostly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gods never die. They are merely forgotten. I'd like to forget them all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you never fought, or never commited crimes. Then you couldn't be a full-fledged human. Trying to imitate someone to that level is impossible.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh really? I guess so... But still, the degree to which people are able to imitate that ideal is much better than what they actually do.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then again, I'm a bit different than most people. It's almost impossible to make me angry/irrational... Oh well. I have my hopes still.

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According to the bible, the world is 6000 years old. Yet, it is PROVEN the world is approximately 4.5 billion years old. Fossils, examinations of the earths crust say that the world is billions of years old. Some people with a voice in their head is all the proof it is 6000 years old.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It also used to be PROVEN that the earth flat. There is no real proof that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. Lets take a look at some real evidence for a young earth ( taken from here):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) The continents are eroding too quickly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the continents were billions of years old, they would have eroded by wind and water many times over. Mountain uplift and other ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¹ÃârecyclingÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢ processes are nowhere near capable of compensating for this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) There is not enough helium in the atmosphere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Helium, a light gas, is formed during radioactive alpha decay in rock minerals. It rapidly escapes and enters the atmosphere much faster than it can escape EarthÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s gravity.2 Even if God had created the world with no helium to begin with, the small amount in the atmosphere would have taken at most around two million years to accumulate. This is far less than the assumed 3,000-million-year age of the atmosphere.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

4) Many fossils indicate that they must have formed quickly, and could not have taken long time-spans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5) The oceans are nowhere near salty enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Each year, the worldÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ã¢ââ¬Å¾Ã¢s rivers and underground streams add millions of tonnes of salt to the sea, and only a fraction of this goes back onto the land. Using the most favorable possible assumptions for long-agers, the absolute maximum age of the oceans is only a tiny fraction of their assumed billions-of-years age.

 

 

 

__________________________________

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How do scientists prove the earth's age, carbon dating you say? Lets have a look at carbon dating (taken from here)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The man who invented Carbon dating knew that atmospheric carbon would reach equilibrium in 30,000 years. He assumed that the earth was millions of years old, and that it was already at equilibrium. However each time they test it, they find more c14 in the atmosphere, and have realized that we are only 1/3 the way to equilibrium.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

- What does this mean? It means that based on c14 formation, the earth has to be less than 1/3 of 30,000 years old. This would make the earth less than 10,000 years old!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Carbon dating is based on the assumption that the amount of C14 in the atmosphere has always been the same. But there is more carbon in the atmosphere now than there was 4 thousand years ago.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

___________________________

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I entirely believe the earth is only about 6000 years old. I take the bible literally, which is how it should be. It is not just a "moral book", it is absolute truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

People often laugh at these beliefs, but more often then not they only rant and know next to nothing on the subject.

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18godzilla: Have a read of this

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and these:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.kent-hovind.com/matson/1proofs2.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.mukto-mona.com/science/skybr ... _part1.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those rebutt everything you just posted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also, I made a mistake, carbon dating doesn't prove how old the earth is, it just proves it is at least 50000 years old. After that the amounts are too small for todays technology to read.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If the world was in fact 6000 years old, it would be able to be proven by dinosaur fossils using carbon dating. The carbon in fossils is gone, so that proves the world is more than 50,000 years old.

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Do you think that anyone in biblical times could understand evolution, or any modern way of thinking? If you ere to tell Moses that

 

 

 

"Well, God actually created the world we know today through the process of natural selection and evolution. You actually came from a creature theat walked hunched and killed most things that moved."

 

 

 

Would he have any idea as how to interpret that concept?

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