kingfooo

Skill instructor items: Go for it. Again, the point is get something new that you did not have before (like in your bank) or from another player. So quest items you can get (not from your bank), free stuff that is not from another player, and stuff in shops (shop stock) are all fair game. I'm getting very close to attempting mith dragons. Just need 2 more herb levels so I can make Anti-dragon pots (with a Greenman's Ale's assistance). I'm also going to try ftp scepter when I get the chance.

It is a good point! But...explorer ring is f2p (and I did use a f2p world).

That was how I read it. You start with nothing and cannot take anything out of your bank. That is why I ditched my Explorer Ring and then went and got a new one when the timer was on. I guess anti-dragon shield is obtainable then - provided you dump the ones in your bank first.

I did take a screenshot of my lesser run - just was too lazy to post it before. Here it is:

Perhaps it would be an interesting twist to include duo or trio challenges. Where a pair or trio of players start all together in Lumby with nothing and work together to do one of the more difficult challenges (DK, GWD). With the right mix of people and skills, would be interesting. Same rules would apply - no banking, no handouts - but you could trade with your teammates. This actually sounds even more appealing to me since it would be fun working with a team (and against the clock). Obviously solo would be a different category than team, and duo would be different than trio. Fooo

Ok, just did a few tries at the Lesser Challenge. Very fun...first try I was just 5 minutes getting boat fare. Restarted... Second try: ran and got training sword and shield, killed goblins until I got 4 earths, sold them in sarim for $, had a really bad fight with the lesser and ended up with a time of 5:17. Third try: thought I would prep this time - destroyed my Explorer ring so I could recover it again from Ned. Started in lumby with nothing, got training sword, killed a few goblins and got 1 mail and 6 waters. Ran to Draynor, got ring from Ned, cabbage ported, alched mail (16 gp..ugh) - ran to shop and sold waters, took boat. Restored run, and ran to lessers. Attacked at about the 4 minute mark. Slow fight but prevailed. Final time: 4:51.

I absolutely love this idea. It would be fun to get a group together at one time in lumby, pick a challenge and then race to the end. It would also be interesting to perhaps set groupings based on total skill level and/or combat level and categorize the results based on some reasonable breakdown. A friend and I are definitely going to have a run at this - probably barrows just for fun. And I agree, anti-dragon shield is a problem unless as part of the prep, you can dump the ones you already have. It is not a big deal except it makes it very difficult to kill any dragon above green without it. (So the mith dragon challenge becomes extremely difficult) Fooo

1. General bank Basically uncategorized stuff, starting with money, teletabs, ropes, then misc junk and tt items. Fit: poor...9 lines - this is the tab that will take the most searching. 2. Armor (symbol: neitznot) Most of the wearable stuff that helps, does not include magic amulets, rings, etc. Fit: poor...6.5 lines of items (only 4 are fully visible). I just have too many barrows sets I guess. 3. Weapons (symbol: rune scimi) All weapons plus cannon, bolts, arrows and also my 3 tftd books (because armor was so full already). May move shields over too. Fit: perfect...3.5 lines. (EDIT: Moved shields over...4 lines exactly...very happy) 4. Magic (symbol: lava staff) All staffs, runes, then amulets (including all the *speak amulets and specials like witchwood and armadyl, etc). Fit: ok...just a bit over 5, but lots of these I never use so if it is sorted, it should be just fine. 5. Summoning (symbol: shard) All shards, pouches, charms, scrolls, and pets. Fit: a bit empty actually...2.5 lines. (but what else is relevant for this tab?) 6. Food/Fishing/Hunting (symbol: cooked shark) All fish, both cooked and uncooked, fishing supplies, hunting supplies, produce, etc. Fit: ok...3.25 lines. Room for a little more stuff. 7. Farming/Herblore (symbol: watering pot) All farming seeds, potions, herbs and seconds, plus associated tools. Fit: Full but adequate...7.5 lines but it is still going to save tons of time. 8. Raw Materials (mining, smithing, wc, const) All ores, wood, bars, molds, tools and planks. Fit: adequate...4.5 lines. May put crafting in here too...still deciding. (EDIT: did move crafting. Now it is 6 full lines but organized and should be fine) 9. Access Items (things you need to go places) Most of these are really rare use items. Keys, pebble of glarial, things like that. Also includes tiaras, greegees, and incomplete sets of random event clothing and alternative money - trading sticks, tokkul, etc. Fit: full...6.5 lines but these are rarely used so its fine. The new places for things will take a bit of getting used to but...very nice update. I always had an organized bank before and still had a hard time finding things sometimes.

A good start mooch, and very nice info on how to get there. May want to clip the images and just show the screen portion (smaller size = faster loads) and I also think you could talk about actually fighting aviansies... Things like: What they drop (and what to keep) How much damage they inflict Other helper critters around Nice work though. Fooo

Or Combat Guild. But both are a long walk. Home tele (move home to Taverly) works well - especially if you use a glory or have bank teles in your house.

You know, if you can afford level 30 summoning, you can get a Penguin as a pet. (You probably already know that but with all the penguinishness going on here, I thought I would remind you.) Fooo

Well, I think the bottom line is that this is a very tough skill to advance in every area - cost, charms, and time. I don't mind that in a skill but I wish the upside was just a bit better. (Like pack mule familiars with a bit more space at lower levels than what they are right now or maybe having the combat level of the critters +5 or +10 above where they are now.) King Fooo

Least Cost Analysis ($55,056,030.00 / 141409 Charms) Start Start End End Charm Level Exp Level Exp Creature Shards Exp Type Pouches Extra Cost Charms --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4 276 10 1154 Dreadfowl 8 9.3 Gold 95 10 $ 19,950.00 95 Gold 10 1154 16 2746 Spirit Spider 8 12.6 Gold 127 50 $ 31,750.00 127 Gold 16 2746 23 6291 Granite Crab 7 21.6 Gold 165 85 $ 42,900.00 165 Gold 23 6291 36 24815 Albino Rat 75 202.4 Blue 92 10 $ 173,420.00 92 Blue 36 24815 46 67983 Bronze Minotaur 102 316.8 Blue 137 200 $ 376,750.00 137 Blue 46 67983 52 67983 Iron Minotaur 125 404.8 Blue 1 215 $ 3,340.00 1 Blue 52 67983 71 496254 Spirit Terrorbird 12 68.4 Gold 6262 10 $ 1,941,220.00 6262 Gold 71 496254 99 13034431 Arctic Bear 14 93.2 Gold 134530 40 $ 52,466,700.00 134530 Gold --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shard Cost: 25 COST: $55,056,030.00 CHARMS: 141179 Gold 0 Green 0 Crimson 230 Blue -------------------- 141409 TOTAL Least Charms Analysis (18719 Charms / $194,899,760.00) Start Start End End Charm Level Exp Level Exp Creature Shards Exp Type Pouches Extra Cost Charms -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4 276 10 1154 Dreadfowl 8 9.3 Gold 95 10 $ 19,950.00 95 Gold 10 1154 16 2746 Spirit Spider 8 12.6 Gold 127 50 $ 31,750.00 127 Gold 16 2746 18 3523 Granite Crab 7 21.6 Gold 36 85 $ 9,360.00 36 Gold 18 3523 19 3973 Desert Wyrm 45 31.2 Green 15 150 $ 19,125.00 15 Green 19 3973 23 6291 Spirit Scorpion 57 83.2 Crimson 28 75 $ 42,000.00 28 Crimson 23 6291 25 7842 Albino Rat 75 202.4 Blue 8 10 $ 15,080.00 8 Blue 25 7842 36 24815 Spirit Kalaphite 51 220.0 Blue 78 1100 $ 185,250.00 78 Blue 36 24815 46 67983 Bronze Minotaur 102 316.8 Blue 137 200 $ 376,750.00 137 Blue 46 67983 55 166636 Iron Minotaur 125 404.8 Blue 244 215 $ 814,960.00 244 Blue 55 166636 56 184040 Spirit Jelly 151 484.0 Blue 36 10 $ 136,260.00 36 Blue 56 184040 58 224466 Steel Minotaur 141 492.8 Blue 83 540 $ 337,395.00 83 Blue 58 224466 66 496254 Karamthulhu 144 510.4 Blue 533 10 $ 1,924,130.00 533 Blue 66 496254 76 1336443 Mithril Minotaur 152 580.8 Blue 1447 1100 $ 7,090,300.00 1447 Blue 76 1336443 86 3597792 Adamant Minotaur 144 668.8 Blue 3382 2750 $ 21,475,700.00 3382 Blue 86 3597792 99 13034431 Rune Minotaur 1 756.8 Blue 12470 13000 $ 162,421,750.00 12470 Blue -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Shard Cost: 25 COST: $194,899,760.00 CHARMS: 258 Gold 15 Green 28 Crimson 18418 Blue ----------------- 18719 TOTAL All I can say is Yousa. That's alot of clams/charms. With the abilities of the current critters, I do not see how this can pay for itself. However, maybe the 2nd batch of familliars will make things a little bit better or cost effective.

Ok, the prior analysis was based on the cost of shards only because I really didn't want to go through the extras and determine cost. But it makes a huge different and is really necessary to get meaningful numbers. I was pretty encouraged about the 7/3.5 mil to get to 99 figures but they turned out to be very misleading. Critter Level Shards Exp Charm Special Cost Exp/Shard $/10k XP Charms/10k XP ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Spirit Wolf 1 7 4.8 Gold Wolf Bones 100 0.69 $572,917 2083 Dreadfowl 4 8 9.3 Gold Raw Chicken 10 1.16 $225,806 1075 Spirit Spider 10 8 12.6 Gold Spider Carcass 50 1.58 $198,413 794 Thorny Snail 13 9 12.6 Gold Raw thin snail 50 1.4 $218,254 794 Granite Crab 16 7 21.6 Gold Iron Ore 85 3.09 $120,370 463 Desert Wyrm 18 45 31.2 Green Bucket of Sand 150 0.69 $408,654 321 Spirit Scorpion 19 57 83.2 Crimson Bronze Claws 75 1.46 $180,288 120 Albino Rat 23 75 202.4 Blue Raw rat meat 10 2.7 $ 93,132 49 Spirit Kalaphite 25 51 220.0 Blue Potato Cactus 1100 4.31 $107,955 45 Compost Mound 28 47 49.8 Green Compost 30 1.06 $241,968 201 Vampire Bat 31 81 136.0 Crimson Vampire Dust 500 1.68 $185,662 74 Honey Badger 32 84 140.8 Crimson Honeycomb 100 1.68 $156,250 71 Beaver 33 72 57.6 Green Willow Logs 22 0.8 $316,319 174 Bronze Minotaur 36 102 316.8 Blue Bronze Bar 200 3.11 $ 86,806 32 Bull Ant 40 11 52.8 Gold Marigolds 250 4.8 $ 99,432 189 Macaw 41 78 72.4 Green Guam 350 0.93 $317,680 138 Evil Turnip 42 104 184.8 Crimson Carved Turnip 500 1.78 $167,749 54 Spirit Cockatrice 43 88 75.2 Green Cockatrice Egg 500 0.85 $359,043 133 Iron Minotaur 46 125 404.8 Blue Iron Bar 215 3.24 $ 82,510 25 Magpie 47 88 83.2 Green Gold Ring 200 0.95 $288,462 120 Bloated Leech 49 117 215.2 Crimson Raw Beef 10 1.84 $136,385 46 Spirit Terrorbird 52 12 68.4 Gold Raw Bird Meat 10 5.7 $ 45,322 146 Abyssal Parasite 54 106 94.8 Green Abyssal Charm 1000 0.89 $385,021 105 Spirit Jelly 55 151 484.0 Blue Jug of Water 10 3.21 $ 78,202 21 Ibis 56 109 98.8 Green Harpoon 15 0.91 $277,328 101 Steel Minotaur 56 141 492.8 Blue Steel Bar 540 3.5 $ 82,488 20 Karamthulhu 58 144 510.4 Blue Empty Fishbowl 10 3.54 $ 70,729 20 Smoke Devil 61 141 268.0 Crimson Goat's Horn Dust 225 1.9 $139,925 37 Abyssal Lurker 62 119 163.2 Green Abyssal Charm 1000 1.37 $243,566 61 Spirit Cobra 63 116 276.8 Crimson Snake Hide 1000 2.39 $140,896 36 Stranger Plant 64 128 281.6 Crimson Bagged Plant 1000 2.2 $149,148 36 Barker Toad 66 10 87.0 Gold Bloated Toad 500 8.7 $ 86,207 115 Mithril Minotaur 66 152 580.8 Blue Mithril Bar 1100 3.82 $ 84,366 17 War Tortoise 67 1 58.6 Gold Tortoise Shell 500 58.6 $ 89,590 171 Bunyip 68 110 119.2 Green Raw Shark 750 1.08 $293,624 84 Fruit Bat 69 130 121.2 Green Banana 10 0.93 $268,977 83 Arctic Bear 71 14 93.2 Gold Polar Kebbit Fur 40 6.66 $ 41,845 107 Granite Lobster 74 166 325.6 Crimson Granite 50 1.96 $128,993 31 Praying Mantis 75 168 329.6 Crimson Red Flowers 1000 1.96 $157,767 30 Adamant Minotaur 76 144 668.8 Blue Adamantite Bar 2750 4.64 $ 94,946 15 Giant Ent 78 94 136.8 Green Willow Branch 2500 1.46 $354,532 73 Hydra 80 128 140.8 Green Water Orb 1000 1.1 $298,295 71 Spirit Dagannoth 82 1 364.8 Crimson Dagannoth Hide 3000 364.8 $ 82,922 27 Rune Minotaur 86 1 756.8 Blue Runite Bar 13000 756.8 $172,106 13 Unicorn Stallion 88 140 154.4 Green Unicorn Horn 1000 1.1 $291,451 65 Wolpertinger 92 203 404.8 Crimson Rabbit + Bones 125 1.99 $128,458 25 Pack Yack 96 211 422.4 Crimson Yak Hide 300 2 $131,984 24 Least Gold Least Charms --------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- Critter Level Gold/10k Exp Critter Level Charms/10k Exp Arctic Bear 71 $41,845 Rune Minotaur 86 13 Spirit Terrorbird 52 $45,322 Adamant Minotaur 76 15 Karamthulhu 58 $70,729 Mithril Minotaur 66 17 Spirit Jelly 55 $78,202 Karamthulhu 58 20 Steel Minotaur 56 $82,488 Steel Minotaur 56 20 Iron Minotaur 46 $82,510 Spirit Jelly 55 21 Spirit Dagannoth 82 $82,922 Pack Yack 96 24 Mithril Minotaur 66 $84,366 Wolpertinger 92 25 Barker Toad 66 $86,207 Iron Minotaur 46 25 Bronze Minotaur 36 $86,806 Spirit Dagannoth 82 27 War Tortoise 67 $89,590 Praying Mantis 75 30 Albino Rat 23 $93,132 Granite Lobster 74 31 Adamant Minotaur 76 $94,946 Bronze Minotaur 36 32 Bull Ant 40 $99,432 Stranger Plant 64 36 Spirit Kalaphite 25 $107,955 Spirit Cobra 63 36 Granite Crab 16 $120,370 Smoke Devil 61 37 Wolpertinger 92 $128,458 Spirit Kalaphite 25 45 Granite Lobster 74 $128,993 Bloated Leech 49 46 Pack Yack 96 $131,984 Albino Rat 23 49 Bloated Leech 49 $136,385 Evil Turnip 42 54 Smoke Devil 61 $139,925 Abyssal Lurker 62 61 Spirit Cobra 63 $140,896 Unicorn Stallion 88 65 Stranger Plant 64 $149,148 Honey Badger 32 71 Honey Badger 32 $156,250 Hydra 80 71 Praying Mantis 75 $157,767 Giant Ent 78 73 Evil Turnip 42 $167,749 Vampire Bat 31 74 Rune Minotaur 86 $172,106 Fruit Bat 69 83 Spirit Scorpion 19 $180,288 Bunyip 68 84 Vampire Bat 31 $185,662 Ibis 56 101 Spirit Spider 10 $198,413 Abyssal Parasite 54 105 Thorny Snail 13 $218,254 Arctic Bear 71 107 Dreadfowl 4 $225,806 Barker Toad 66 115 Compost Mound 28 $241,968 Spirit Scorpion 19 120 Abyssal Lurker 62 $243,566 Magpie 47 120 Fruit Bat 69 $268,977 Spirit Cockatrice 43 133 Ibis 56 $277,328 Macaw 41 138 Magpie 47 $288,462 Spirit Terrorbird 52 146 Unicorn Stallion 88 $291,451 War Tortoise 67 171 Bunyip 68 $293,624 Beaver 33 174 Hydra 80 $298,295 Bull Ant 40 189 Beaver 33 $316,319 Compost Mound 28 201 Macaw 41 $317,680 Desert Wyrm 18 321 Giant Ent 78 $354,532 Granite Crab 16 463 Spirit Cockatrice 43 $359,043 Spirit Spider 10 794 Abyssal Parasite 54 $385,021 Thorny Snail 13 794 Desert Wyrm 18 $408,654 Dreadfowl 4 1075 Spirit Wolf 1 $572,917 Spirit Wolf 1 2083 Again, I used zybez for what I could find and took wild guesses for the rest. You may not like the numbers I put for items, but the really important ones are pretty close. Least Cost/Least Charms analysis is done but I have to format it. Will post them later. King Fooo

I started out trying to incorporate the extra item costs and got bogged down in how tedious it was to place a value on really stupid items. But, I think I will go back and put in easy (and substantial) amounts and then recalc. King Fooo