DragonSam

Thanks again.

I seem to have already answered that question... Thanks Durant; your reply helped but green9090's was so clearly expressed it wrapped things up well. So, ordinary bonus multipliers are thrown out and replaced by the bonus weekend multiplier. That explains me getting less than usual. Why Jagex thinks this is a good idea on a bonus exp weekend I can't imagine. I agree with those who think it sucks, and senselessly so. So presumably if you use the Ectofuntus you'd go through all that rigmarole for only double experience (or whatever your bonus weekend multiplier is), not the four times you usually get. That's even more stupid than me. What about lamps and tomes? Overriding POH altars or Ectofuntus still leaves a base bone-burying rate, but overriding tomes or lamps leaves zilch. Do you end up with nothing for a genie lamp or tome of experience? Or the usual rate without any multiplier? Or umm what?

I posted yesterday that I didn't understand what was happening with prayer experience for the altar in my POH. Fair enough, I apparently hadn't understood the Jagex page on the bonus weekend and admittedly I hadn't read the entire 125 page thread on their site and was duly slapped about the head as punishment. Unfortunately, the topic was locked before I got an answer to the problem I was asking about. Presumably I didn't make things very clear. Are you supposed to get *less* than usual? The Jagex site has 'What activities will NOT earn me bonus XP?' and includes in its answer: "Items/locations that already give bonus XP (e.g. ancient effigies, strange rocks, genie lamps, tomes of experience, goldsmithing gloves, Ectofuntus, POH altars, etc". I interpreted this to mean that those things just give you whatever they usually give, but the bonus weekend multiplier doesn't apply. So you get your usual bonus from the Ectofuntus or a genie lamp, but not that amount x2.2 or x1.9 or whatever your multiplier is at. That would make sense to me. But it isn't what I got from the POH altar. I got significantly less than the usual experience bonus. Usual for sacrificing a dragon bone would be 216; I got 158. What I got turned out to be the prayer bonus for ordinary burying multiplied by the bonus weekend multiplier. But one of the generous geniuses who told me I'm stupid reckons it's clearly stated that only burying bones will give experience, and another says the dev blog indicates altars won't work at all, and either would mean everyone should be getting zero experience from sacrificing bones at the POH altar. But another said his POH altar is working fine. Others said the bonus weekend multiplier doesn't apply to altars, which makes sense to me as above, and is how the development blog reads to me, but doesn't explain how I'm getting 158 instead of 216. So all agreed that I'm stupid, but there were at least four different descriptions of how prayer is actually working, and none accounted for what I was asking about. So, rather than jump up and down screeching "You're a dummy!!!" can someone explain to me in simple terms why I'm getting 158 exp for sacrificing dragon bones rather than 216? And why, on what is supposedly a 'bonus experience weekend' you get less experience than usual for an activity? And if the Ectofuntus is still giving its usual bonus (but not the weekend multiplier) and genie lamps are still giving their usual bonus (but not the weekend multiplier) perhaps someone can explain what reasoning explains the differences.

Yayyy!! It'sa bonus experience weekend!!! Or not. It worked for me to get levels in Farming, Magic and Fletching within an hour or so. Great. So next I thought I'd get a Prayer level. I have a marble altar with two incense burners in my Player Owned House. I'm used to this giving me 300% (ie 3 times) the base exp rate for whatever I sacrifice there. So dragon bones, for instance, which have a base rate of 72 points, give me 216 points when I sacrifice them at the altar in my POH when I have the burners going. So I thought, "Wow, if I can usually get 216 for dragon bones, then I should get over 450 when the bonus multiplier works!". My bonus multiplier is at 2.2 right now. So I troop off with my dragon bones, two marrentil and a tinderbox, go to my chapel, light two burners, start sacrificing bones, and get ... 158 xp for each one. That's right, I got the weekend bonus multiplier times the base rate, with no bonus for using the POH altar. So I got less than I'd get normally. I tried it with infernal ashes too; same result. Less than I'd get normally, no apparent effect from the POH altar. So, unless someone can tell me something I'm doing wrong, the moral of the story is: don't waste bones or ashes at your POH altar at the moment.

I don't believe that.

I noticed this today as well. I had a black dragons task and people were leaving their skins, plus on my way past blues to get to blacks I saw people leaving theirs too. I've seen it occasionally before, but I needed to world-hop to find blacks without three or four people already there, and this was consistently the case.

But apparently you have. As far as I can tell your comment makes no sense. That I trust the OP's report of his experience and can extrapolate that to deduce I would experience similar at smaller scale if I tried in no way indicates I have done so. If you choose to interpret my trusting the OP's report of something as 'noticing' it then you are using that word very differently to me; I 'notice' things through personal observation, not second hand report. Your entire argument against him was that you have not personally noticed these things, which is fair enough. It seems strange then to flip and say that even though all your observational evidence stacks up against what the OP originally was saying, nevertheless you now "understand" albeit theoretically that what he is saying is true - that the nature of trading has altered somewhat. You agree in theory but not in practice. Your position makes no sense. You certainly haven't demonstrated to any extent that I 'apparently ... have' noticed 'a difference in the way money is exchanged or viewed'. You have misunderstood my posts, whether due to poor signal or poor reception I can't tell. I didn't argue against the OP. I didn't argue that he was wrong in his conclusions. I pointed out that most players, myself included, aren't in a position to agree with him based on our own observations - at least, not on the large scale at which he originally presented his conclusions. That doesn't mean his conclusions can't be accurate, and in fact I might agree they likely are based on his being intellectually competent and apparently honest. Maybe his conclusions are only accurate for large scale trading and staking, but maybe not. Either way, I can see that if he is right then I conceivably would be able to make money just as he has, but proportionate to my starting cash pile rather than his. I can also see that if I was more practised in the game perhaps I could observe smaller scale changes which would lead me to the same conclusions as the OP - I'm not sure, but I can admit it's possible. None of this negates my statement that I haven't noticed the pertinent changes myself so far. Every day people come to these forums and ask questions. Every day they go away with answers they haven't yet tried out, but which they accept are probably accurate simply because most people who post here are sincere. There's a fair bit of trust that people will be right and we accept that's theoretically likely before we have, or even pursue, practical proof. This is no different - I didn't question the OP's sincerity or honesty, or argue against his conclusions. I thought he was a bit tactless and obtuse in not realising how his statements might come across, but that isn't an argument that they're incorrect.

I've never done much trading. Umm, like literally three or four times I've wondered if I'd enjoy it, bought five or six of an item when the official GE chart suggested they were low, and sold them at some later point when I could make a profit. Sometimes I needed to wait a while :) My personal preference turns out to be for making money through things that require a bit of running around and raising experience levels at the same time. (I know, I could alch or fletch while waiting at the GE, but I haven't much enjoyed them and I like to get out more.) Given that limited experience, of course I'm not seeing what Rocked mentioned, at any scale. I'm doing my usual rate of transactions of fairly ordinary stuff - cashing in MTK, for instance, so selling a bunch of herbs - but if there's a lot of cash going through at that scale the difference is not obvious to me in that style of transaction. If it can be read through price signals, well ... I simply don't pay attention to whether something costs 182gp or 192gp from day to day, but I'd notice a change from 18.2 mill to 19.2 mill from one day to the next, but I'm not chasing any items at those prices so I don't look up their prices. So, at the moment the only thing I've noticed about the recent GE is that I have more trouble selling quite a few things than I expect. I just got the omnitalisman, so i sold my talismans and tiaras, which I'd collected kinda for the 'whole set' fun. Half of them just haven't sold until I went down to less than a quarter of the starting price, and some still haven't sold even at 50gp. Once I had the whole set I used to think of a talisman as a reasonable drop, some would be worth a few thousand, some over 10,000. Over the last week I think only the death sold for more than a thousand, and I'm pretty sure I've still got a Nature on offer for 50. This is the sort of shake-up I expected with freeing the market, the price Jagex had on these was way over what people sincerely thought they were worth. If Rocked's point was about overall volume of cash movement, fair enough - I'm not in much position to judge but I assume he's right just because this is what I assume will happen when you free up a market, plus I have no reason to disbelieve his observation.

But apparently you have. As far as I can tell your comment makes no sense. That I trust the OP's report of his experience and can extrapolate that to deduce I would experience similar at smaller scale if I tried in no way indicates I have done so. If you choose to interpret my trusting the OP's report of something as 'noticing' it then you are using that word very differently to me; I 'notice' things through personal observation, not second hand report.

Flipping is basically buying and selling immediately with the intent to profit (in the most basic sense of the word) It used to mean buying the GE limit and reselling the same quantity for a set higher price, though the new GE merchanics have changed that With any amount of cash (and your ~40m wealth from the stated items puts you in a decent starting spot), you could have made the same percentage over your pre-free trade wealth as the OP did, which would seem like Private Server Syndrome to you. Don't let the units used to display the percentage of your wealth gained bother you. Someone farther along in the game will always be able to take advantage of updates than someone with less to use/invest. If you're complaining about the luck of turning < 100m into billions, well, there's not much I can say. Luck is luck. Thanks for explaining flipping. Yes, I understand that if I wanted to sell up and thereby raise cash, then trade to make money, I'd probably be able to do so in similar percentages to those starting with far more gp. And I haven't complained at all, let alone about the luck of turning <100m into billions. But even if I sold up all my better value gear the biggest single investment I could make would still only be 50m, so I still wouldn't see how people are treating 500m exchanges of money. Since I've never even played with sums at that scale before I couldn't comment on change at that scale, and obviously not at higher scales. I still wouldn't be able to agree with the OP's observation because that observation was about a league of play far beyond mine. It seems odd to me that the OP doesn't seem to get that. My point is well summarised in your sentence 'Someone farther along in the game will always be (better) able to take advantage of updates than someone with less to use/invest'. I think you typoed the word 'better', and hope I haven't misrepresented by adding it. I'm not complaining about that fact, any more than I'd whine that someone with higher Str can hit harder than me; it's a fact of life. As above, it seems odd to me that someone farther along in the game doesn't get that they're better placed.

The 'greedy' stuff is related to the answer to your question. I have noticed absolutely no difference in the way money is exchanged or viewed. People who have 10m gp or fewer, don't do the stuff where you stake and win or lose and don't do 'flipping' mostly haven't noticed the difference you're talking about, if the posts in this thread are any guide. What is flipping, btw? It obviously has something to do with trading, apparently in fairly large amounts, but can someone explain it? I think what you're missing is that the group who don't do these things is gigantic, and that the people who see the difference you see are those with unusually large amounts of money to play with, and who have been doing that playing. On the high score list I rank about 135,000th. That means there are easily a million regular players below me. I have some good equipment - claws, godsword, some Barrows - but less than 10 mill in the bank. I don't see the change you see because I'm not rich enough. Most of the players ranked lower than me - the vast majority of players in RS - have less than 10 mill gp to play with. If there was a change in the real economy which meant that people of Donald Trump's wealth suddenly started playing with their money without their usual care, and Trump went into a bar in Brooklyn and said "Hey fellas! Any of you finding that these days it's real easy to make $10 mill, and that people are throwing away hundreds of millions on casual bets? That's how it seems to me all the time!" how do you think the residents of the bar would react? It's not so much that you're greedy, it's that you display ignorance of the context; in RS terms you are immensely wealthy but don't seem to realise it, or realise that it's annoying to lots of people that you don't realise it. Being unaware that you are immensely wealthy suggests greed to some. But more accurately it's like walking into a cancer ward and complaining about how very energetic you feel.

That's fine, but determining loss based on opportunity cost always depends on the 'could'. In your example the person knows they could do either job. Obviously then the cost of doing the less well paid job is the diff between that and the better paid job. No problems there. But what if we say the opportunity cost is the difference between Job A, at 60k a year, and suddenly being discovered as a movie star while buying groceries, and being offered 12mill for one film? That opportunity cost is far far higher. Or what if we say the opportunity cost is that you could have been hit by a truck and killed, thus reducing your earning capacity to zero? Saying you've lost 300k because you sold something for 1 bill which was later sold for 1.3 bill is fanciful nonsense. Do we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the same item was not also sold for 900k at some point after the first sale? if it's sold tomorrow for 500k has the original seller now made an economic profit of 500k as well as an economic loss of 300k? Is their economic profit in permanent limbo, unresolved until the end of time just in case someone else somewhere eventually sells the same item again at a different price? It isn't a loss, it's just a possibility that didn't eventuate. If you call every positive possibility that didn't come to pass a loss, then everyone on earth has lost billions daily, and conversely made billions daily for every negative possibility that didn't come to pass. This is economic gobblede[grime].

Thank you.

How do you get a small ninja monkey greegree? That is, which monkey do you need to kill to get the bones to make the small monkey ninja greegree?

Dragon boots and dragon defender are worth it. The armour looks good IMO but Barrows is significantly better as long as you don't mind it degrading and then having to repair it.