Jump to content

Welcome to Rune Tips, the first ever RuneScape help site. We aim to offer skill guides, quest guides, maps, calculators, informative databases, tips, and much more to help you get the most from the Massive Online Adventure Game, RuneScape, by Jagex Ltd © 2009.

Report Ad

Welcome to Forum.Tip.It
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

GrimHams

GrimHams

Member Since 12 May 2005
Offline Last Active Feb 19 2018 07:50 PM

In Topic: Holocaust Denial, the BNP and freedom of speech

29 November 2007 - 10:28 AM

I wonder what the BNP's view on the right to free speech of say an Islamic fundamentalist would be? I'll let you answer that one




I don't agree with them, and they actually do incite racial hatred, the BNP doesn't. The BNP doesn't go to muslims countries and try to change their society in a negative way so i don't think they should do the same to us.



'm sorry, that's a pretty staunch belief to suddenly change from (and I quote)



"I have reached the conclusion that the 'extermination' tale is a mixture of Allied wartime propaganda, extremely profitable lie, and latter witch-hysteria"



to, "oh sorry, I was wrong, oops!". I want a bit more proof then that before I believe this particularly shady leopard has changed his spots.




I'm sure you're intelligent enough to realise that peoples opinions change, there is no genuine point to bring up the Holocaust as part of a modern political party, it has no basis on the BNP and as i have said should be left to historians. Don't bring up an old quotation where Nick said on Monday that the BNP does think the Holocaust happened. Also Nick said in the past that he believes there isn't concrete enough proof that the Holocaust happened in the severity thats publisised, not that he denies that the Nazi's killed some jews. I think the Holocaust happened and the current stance by Nick and the BNP is that they don't refute it.



Finally, I'd like to show you exactly where, legally the right to freedom of speech comes from - the ECHR - Article 10 if you want the exact reference. Now, guess what else we have in that document, I'll tell you - Article 14 - Prohibition of Discrimination. Now you can waffle for as long as you like about how the BNP isn't racist because is doesn't "hate" it just "recognises differences" - well I've got news, discrimination doesn't mean hate - it means to believe in fundamental differences in people because of their origin/religion/gender/orientation - a clear breach no?




Nick was trialed for the "incitement of racial hatred", a law that doesn't apply to the modern BNP's beliefs, and came off innocent in 2006 . . http://news.bbc.co.u...ord/6135060.stm And i can assure you that if there was even a hint that he was infact inciting racial hatred he would have gone down for it. Take Nick to court if you really think hes inciting racial hatred, because it would be profitable for the BNP's cause to prove wrong again.



The BNP crying about unqualified free speech when their main policies go against the same document that it stems from is obvious hypocrisy. I don't think I need to say anymore.




Why don't people like you, instead of trying to take away legitimate political parties like the BNP's speech challenge them and win if you're in the right. The BNP are crying about this? nah, its those who throw their toys out of the pram when people like Nick don't see things in the brainwashed PC way, that the mass media inprint on peoples minds.



P.S. before you accuse me of being liberal, left wing, PC or otherwise then let me assure you there are plenty of people on this board that will testify otherwise (especially GingerWarrior - the number of socialist/non socialist arguments woo :lol: ). Let it be known that it is not only the political left that disagree.




I don't believe for a second that only the left are against the BNP.



If the BNP stayed in the racist past i wouldn't have joined, nor would i support their right to promote racism, but they are no longer racist and it seems the likes of the protestors are angry because Nick's views will make sense to a growing amount of people.

In Topic: Holocaust Denial, the BNP and freedom of speech

28 November 2007 - 10:09 PM

It shows how scared some fascists are if they want to stop Nick talking because they're so scared his views are going to make sense to people, i think monday was a victory for the BNP and a victory for free speech. People say wherever the BNP goes violence goes? Indeed, by the far left causing problems.


Really?



Because, from what I heard, there was only one person that got into trouble with the police that night, and I seem to recall it was a member of the BNP trying to provoke trouble from those "anti fascists" on the way to the pub after the debate.





You know what's another beauty of democracy? Everyone is equal. Yes, that includes ethnic minorities and migrant workers. Maybe you should have a look at your own party's stance towards equality before lecturing us on democracy, m'kay?




Chortle, i'm not sure where you get the idea that the poor left were being pushed about by the big evil BNP. What i find even more hilarious is that this debate had nothing to do with the BNP's policies, but was made that way by the media and far left idiocy. The antics of the protestors were incredibly "i'm throwing the toys out of my pram because i don't agree with Nick Griffin", and i think a lot of people saw it that way.



The thing you are misinterpreting is that the BNP doesn't blame all the immigrants, its the government allowing so many into Britain. If people agree that mass immigration threatens Britain in different ways then the BNP has a stand to make, if other parties refuse to have a proper stand on immigration that will protect me then i see the BNP as an alternative. Protecting indigenous British people is a legitimate policy and its something i'm sure someone who promotes mass immigration and the PC propaganda against white British people will hate. I'm sure they'll sleep soundly at night knowing that they've stood up for the poor immigrants who love Britain and its values so much.



Heres a little taster off the Timesonline site in response to this article http://www.timesonli... ... 951490.ece



how typical of the political left who supposedly stand for democracy and free speech and as they would like to put it 'i might not like what you say but i will defend your right to say it.' what we saw last night from the militant left is typical of thier behaviour. violence, lack of respect, total disorder. so who is the real problem here. a perfectly LEGAL political party or a bunch of protesters who whilst in uni see it as a social event rather than a demo of any real meaning to them. good luck and prosperity to the bnp in the coming years.


In Topic: Holocaust Denial, the BNP and freedom of speech

28 November 2007 - 09:53 PM

Yes, Nick Griffin was invited to talk about free speech, and the irony is that the apparant "anti fascists" protesting were trying to stop Nick's free speech. I think the BNP came off very well from this with the idiocy of the far left (+ Oxford toffs) making a mockery of themselves. I haven't heard the debate (i believe its on youtube or i could get it somewhere) but i expect many thought Nick would be destroyed in the debate and the evil BNP shown to be what the mass media have decided they are. Unfortunately for them i hear Nick came across very well and put his legitimate views across. (clapping at the end i hear?).



Free speech should be allowed to anyone, thats a beauty of democracy and if Nick and the BNP weren't allowed to speak it would cause utter outrage, you may not agree with people but the way to win is to discuss with them their views, unfortunately for the "anti fascists" Nick's views are perfectly reasonable from an increasing amount of British peoples view. I don't believe what those protestors do, that unless you have PC views you're evil and wrong, i'd happily let the far left talk because free speech is what this country needs to gain alternative views in politics etc.



I'd also like to make the distinction between the BNP and holocaust deniers, the BNP does not deny the holocaust, Nick used to in a sense but as people progress they change their beliefs. Irving, contrary to popular belief does not deny the holocaust happened, he says that there isn't solid proof that it happened in the severity (6 million dead) as is publicised. I don't agree with Irving and believe that the numbers are irrelivant, wanting genocide against the jews was utterly despicable and the Nazi's should be shown as they were.



It shows how scared some fascists are if they want to stop Nick talking because they're so scared his views are going to make sense to people, i think monday was a victory for the BNP and a victory for free speech. People say wherever the BNP goes violence goes? Indeed, by the far left causing problems.

In Topic: UK population could soar to 90m

26 November 2007 - 01:07 PM

Like most right wing BNP supporters you cannot distinguish between economic immigrants, asylum seekers and illegal immigrants. Hence I cannot even be bothered arguing with you.




Asylum seekers have no business being in Britain, there are plenty of perfectly good countries for them to go to in order to get away from a violent and oppressive native country. Why should Britain be the first stop for them? Other countries aren't, its because Britain is a soft touch. Funnily enough i was just listening to Nick Griffin's side of this debate on youtube and someone posted this: Keith Vaz claimed we have "the toughest immigration policy that (he) has ever seen."



Doubtful. Is he not aware of Australia, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, New Zealand, Sweden and Canada? All of those countries feature an immigration policy that requires all people seeking asylum to possess a skill that would benefit them. A manual or professional skill. That's a system the UK ought to adopt.



- Even if you don't agree with me that Britain doesn't need immigrants then surely a step in the right direction is to only accept skilled workers, the BNP has stated (i might find if i have time) that they will only accept immigrants that are extremely beneficial to Britain (special cases), otherwise we can work to get our own people back to work instead of getting cheap labour from foreign immigrants. Solving work force problems by getting immigrants to do the jobs saves the big business's money, but this is not in the best interests of the British people.



And finally on illegal immigrants they should be rooted out and exported back to their native country, its not much of a debate.





Heres an extract from Mr Griffin to people i was previously talking to, its a valid point: Nick Griffin Newsnight 25/5/07 "Racism was a concept invented by Leon Trotsky, a communist mass murderer, to demonise his opponents and stop people talking about certain issues. And that's been taken on by the Labour party and by the BBC and the British people have been cowed, so they feel they can't talk about these things".

In Topic: UK population could soar to 90m

26 November 2007 - 12:46 PM

Says it all really. The definition provided by the BNP on their website isn't actually true. Nowhere in the definition of the word 'racism' is the word 'hate' mentioned. It is quite simply the discrimination between one race and another. So according to that definition, yes the BNP is a blatently racist party.



You make it sound like the indigineous population of Britain (which is strange in itself since that would actually be the Celts, not the Anglosaxons) is at threat of being wiped out. You seem to see a threat that we're going to be overrun. I'll bash out a few stats from the UK census. 85% of this country is made up of people who declare themselves "White British". The next ethnic minority are actually White Irish, at 5%. The people you're talking about (Indians, Eastern Europeans) make up <5% of the British population. 85% versus 5% is a threat of being overrun? In your own words, "god help us".



Argue over the rights and wrongs all you like select_a_use, the moment you create a clear discrimination against one race to another, you are being racist.



You're trying to use Darwinism to support your ideology. It's not hard to see therefore why people associate you with the Nazis.



In short, you don't represent the best interests of Britain at all - in reality you represent the White British race, and will never be satisfied as a party until Britain is 100% White British.




Refer to my above post to see my opinion on cultural and racial diversity, black people have a culture and a traditional way of life that is different to that of indigenous British people, pointing this out is apparantly racist..



You need to realise that the BNP is looking to the future of Britain, not the quick fix that the current government relies on to keep the British people happy. I could blurt out some BNP propaganda here but i'm not going to, mainly because you're probably some far left communist without a grasp on reality, or the future that could be reality. I can imagine this forum is packed to the rafters with the far left, who shout racist and bigot to anyone beyond the conventional PC politics.



If immigration isn't being addressed i don't trust the current government to do anything about it. The only party who would actually make a difference is the BNP, if you disagree with the politics of the BNP then thats fine, i'm not here to make you agree with me, but openly implying the BNP is racist for looking out for the indigenous people of Britain i think is wrong.



The point of this thread in the first place is that the amount of immigrants is going to rise in the next 60 or so years to the point that there will be 90 million people in Britain, much of these will be immigrants. Labour/conservative's all agree with the latest immigration debate that they realise the strain mass immigration will cause Britain, the only difference is that they think we need a large amount of immigrants and the BNP thinks we don't need them at all.



Thinking that asylum seekers are here because they have nowhere else to go is frankly naive, there are plenty of safe countries for them to go to but they come here because the current government does nothing to stop them. I believe im justified in saying that I want Britain for British people instead of Britain for any immigrant the government is too scared to show away. Statistics don't tell the story as far as saying the government is harsh on immigration because in reality it isn't.



Wanting to stop immigration is not because they're black or any other ethnic group, its about preserving British culture (which i'm forever saying but you notice about 3 words in my entire post) and the kinds of government statistics that back up the idea that mass immigration is detremental for not only Britain's transport systems etc but the cultural diversity of British people as a whole. Take a trip to a part of a city dominated by black people, then tell me that we're exactly the same. Its quite insulting to black people to imply that they are exactly the same as white people, which i'm sure they would agree.