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Member Since 19 Jun 2004
Offline Last Active May 26 2016 04:15 PM

#5578033 What happened to these forums?

Posted by Toad on 22 October 2015 - 11:22 PM

I think Reddit is more accessible as some have said.


Sadly as new players come to RuneScape they'll use Reddit or RSW as wikipedia and reddit are two universal sites that everybody generally uses.

Just as people would rather tweet about an update than discuss it on a forum at times, social media has changed completely.

It's sad but it's just how it is.

#5577923 Post all RS Screenshots, Videos, and Sounds here!

Posted by Toad on 21 October 2015 - 03:00 PM


Fear my Chaotic symmetry!?







I had too much fun with this

It's good but it's not quite Mr Toad



#5577097 5th October 2015 - Virtual Levelling | Ninja Update

Posted by Toad on 10 October 2015 - 04:35 PM


TBH I simply dont get the respect part of the whole argument. Just because at some point people were measuring e-peens by having a hard to get 99 doesn't mean the game should be locked with hours of grinding to get the best out of a skill ...


Runescape is just moving towards the rest of the MMOs where the game actually starts after you max out (well at least in some skills).


I never really bought in to the whole 'respect' for high stats thing.


It's the nature of pretty much any game that the end game is what its all about and that as a game matures ways of reaching the end-game for each individual facet gets easier because otherwise the game would just get longer and longer in terms of reaching the end game and you'd lose all interest for new players who can never hope to get there.


I mean jeeze could you imagine how butt-hurt I'd be if I cared about the respect when I did cooking before cook-x and before skillcapes? I went from having an epically rare stat that barely anyone trained very high to something everyone and their mum gets cause its super easy to buy and get a cape for.



I had 99 cook pre cook-x too, and it wasn't hard back then either, the reality was back before cook-x people just fished the food a large number of people "traded raw for cooked" because they didn't want to burn sharks or didn't want to waste time cooking as they wanted to go and pvm or pk, cooking was never a rare skill because even by 2004 standards it was 200k xp per hour.


Or you know, you could play the game because you enjoy it?


Agree on that point, but my advice to anybody with RuneScape is if you want to max and you don't enjoy skilling, quit for 5 years and then come back, it's 10 times easier the methods available now are just so easy RuneSpan for instance, Slayer now under EoC is ridiculous, all the Prifdinnas content, I'm sure Invention this year will boost it further.



However, the duration of staying in that older content is much smaller nowadays. One can get in a couple of months to near maxed, as opposed to back in day where it took years.

Which is sort of the point. I wouldn't expect new players to know about the metagame, and the game honestly doesn't have much going for it outside of the accomplishment hunt... Anyone who joins the community is going to end up reading about how nothing they do will matter until the 120-200m range, so there's basically no sense of accomplishment until VERY far in your playing career. And even those will get less noteworthy as time goes on, kind of how maxing is less an achievement and more an obligation.

I mean, that kind of thing is fine, I just wish we'd stop pretending the race has appeal for anyone that's not already deep into the game. Like, they hyped the hell out of the 99/120/200m race when Divination came out, but the skill itself is not particularly engaging or rewarding even by Runescape's standards.



Agreed, but the Metagame you learn from other players as you do any other game. I agree in some regards with Maxing but there's no real perk of having maxed, besides a completionists cape for PvM.

There's no gear that requires 99 attack and 99 cooking is there? so maxing combat is necessary but are the other skils? not really, most skills once you max you don't go back to them, and a lot of content in rs is pointless, let's be honest they produce content to "fill-gaps", but is the content relevant to the game? not really.


Tell me what use are Chompy Birds if it wasn't for trimmed comp cape? that content was long dead, same with challenge scrolls, even PvM in rs everyone does the same because it's most efficient.

Tell me this if it wasn't for a list saying "the cape requires this" would you do it, the answer is an empathic no.

I feel like Jagex missed "individualism" when it comes to PvM look at other MMOs they have "Builds" where you go down a build route and you suddenly focus on one area to be good at, RS it's ok put this in your action bar smash 1-9 keys on your keyboard rinse and repeat.


Wouldn't it have been lovely to build yourself to absorb damage for a team and help others, or to go raw DPS and you could change those builds if you desired, but actually be an individual and a core component in your team instead of "man you need to put this in your bar and use exactly as I have", everybody is the same, everybody does the same content, everybody cuts the same logs... see my point? nobody is an individual in rs.

Because of the flawed combat mechanics in RS nobody team pvms anymore, you can afk at godwars all day, its actually quite sad to see that, you don't require a team, cooperating anymore and if you could have some kind of diverse system where you compliment each other it would be great. But this is the design of the game now and they've missed the boat so to speak, I used to love team bosses and there's none of that now, nobody tanking a boss or nobody focusing on one style instead everybody does the same so, we don't need a team essentially.


The social aspect is gone in that regard, which used to be a huge perk of PvM.


I agree with your point here ALG:



I mean, that kind of thing is fine, I just wish we'd stop pretending the race has appeal for anyone that's not already deep into the game. Like, they hyped the hell out of the 99/120/200m race when Divination came out, but the skill itself is not particularly engaging or rewarding even by Runescape's standards.


This is the issue with me for RuneScape content, other games traditionally have a 3 month release window or so, where all content adds something to the game that's relevant.

With RuneScape you get content that adds nothing, a minigame that's going to be dead in 2 weeks. Look at Trouble Brewing (I forget the name it's been years) what does Trouble brewing do to RuneScape that's relevant? it's pointless, people go there to unlock a song nothing more.


You have minigames that give nothing to the game, skilling content that they add such as useless potions with no use and nobody ever makes, fish that nobody will ever use, the list is endless.


Divination like you said, to me that's RuneSpan with different animations, I'm 1 Divination and haven't played in 4 years now because I just look at it and I think what is it adding to the game? the answer is nothing.


They produce a skill with no relevance to the game, Invention sounds ok, but I fear it'll really hit the economy hard with some of their proposals. the 50/50 item duper, the breaking things down at alch value, it's seriously going to cause problems.


The issue for me with RuneScape now is Progression, when I played the xp was slower tedious, so you'd get to 40 attack in 2001 and you'd think "Great I can use Rune now" or you'd go in 2004 tiers of "Green d'hide body, blue, red, yes 70 range, I can use black now" and youd' see people back then with 70 range and it'd be somewhat of a milestone.


The best ranging armour, highly relevant within the game, only the best crafters then (even at 70) were hard to find, even making a glory amulet out of a dragonstone you would have to hunt for.


XP measures everything within RuneScape, but wouldn't it be fun to have content where it was skill based?


It was fueled by player made items, now it's monster dropped items, the player no longer matters. In 2015 players are nothing more than XP grinding machines and Monster farmers. everything else is irrelevant.

Do people mine ore to smith for themselves anymore? or do they just go out and mine for xp and dump the ore on the floor, or bank it then sell it at whatever price they can get? the whole culture of the game has shifted and that's sadly the way it has gone. I think the whole ethos of the game has changed where gratification comes from a cape now, and it's 120 not 99 anymore, but those little milestones along the way that used to be a pretty big deal are gone, these little cookie crumbs that used to reward and mean something don't get people excited.


I think skilling should be as important as PVM personally, I think people with 120 smithing, the rebalance next year should be relevant which is a good sign if they execute it right, even if like Artisans Smithing you have to hit the swords in the right area to make the perfect one, and if not you 10M GP materials are gone basically rewards skilled players, and also takes GP out of the game if you screw it up (where you have 5 seconds to make the right choice or its gone), it should reward skilled players and people that bother to learn to be a good blacksmith.


Have the furnace at the right temperature, cool it in the right time, hit the piece of weapon in the right area, the same goes for high level potions, mixing at the right times and so on.

Reward good players within a skill for doing something rather than just promoting AFK culture.


XP measures everything within RuneScape, but wouldn't it be fun to have content where it was skill based? finding the right route to Fish the perfect Fish, instead of the spot is always here, we're just reaching a point in the game where players don't care about what they fish, players don't care what they mine as long as the XP is the best and they have to catch it correctly or it breaks the line and it's actually will heal a ridiculous amount of health.


But then look at the community and the economy what is this actually doing for the game when people just mine so much gold ore that it imbalances the economy, or fishes so much whatever you fish at Prifdinnas that is untradeable?

That's my two cents with RuneScape anyway, I wish the game would reward players for little milestones and be more than an XP grind and a PVM farm because the little steps along the way used to mean so much more.

The game used to have so much more than just "XP rates" and now its Max or nothing, when I was last playing in 2012 and I saw "This player have just reached 99 in all skills" I thought "great another one" they are like london buses now, there's nothing desireable anymore.

Even if it was cosmetic, I proposed on the HLF a few years ago getting a certain milestone should unlock a haircut or some appearences, but for skillers these days its all about a 120 cape at the end, and I personally think its sad to see.

You can see just how the game is about being an XP-Slave now and PVM farming all day for gp by 2016 BTS, its all about boss hunting.

Long post but I just think the game should be more about XP, it's annoyed me that this is where the game is, people need xp points for gratification now and virtual rankings, the game used to be about so much more. Now Jagex can just add a new resource spot with 40k xp faster an hour faster and people are happy, but it adds NOTHING TO THE GAME.

  • Alg likes this

#5577029 9/16/15 - DarkScape

Posted by Toad on 09 October 2015 - 09:22 AM

shame, if something like this had been released 2 years ago it might have kept me around as it was sort of the type of open world pvp I was dreaming of.


Too long gone to care now 


Yes it's the same for me generally, too far gone to care about the game.



Void not really free given the time investment required to get full sets, if you didn't have it already. You might be better off just buying other gear and getting started right away, unless you'd be doing TDs for long enough that the time spent getting Void would be beneficial. But if all you wanted was to gather up enough gold to get gear for Araxxor, I doubt the time saved killing TDs faster would make up for the time spent getting the set.

If you already had it prior to deciding you'd start doing TDs, then yeah, could probably be considered free for all intent and purposes since it was already there.

Also GWD armor prices are low enough that it can be sold back at minimal loss afterwards if you don't need it anymore. But you might want to keep it anyway since it's really useful everywhere else. :P

Then again, correct me if I'm grossly overestimating the amount of time required to get void :P


Other gear is substantially inferior to Void at Tormented Demons. Void is also pretty much the best gear at DPS positions at the top bosses. Therefore, even considering the time investment getting Void and making money at Tormented Demons as a intermediate step towards end-game PvM, it's the wisest route.


It would take no more than 25 hours to get Superior elite void (assuming starting from scratch; if you have Elite void, which a returning PvMer would very likely have, it would take no more than 12 hours) with all three helmets.


GWD armor is useless at Tormented Demons, considering you must use at least two combat styles. The only "viable" alternative for a returning player using Tormented Demons as a stepping stone is Dragon rider, and that's only useful if you don't have a Demon horn necklace and attuned ectoplasmator (and don't feel like bringing a Yak with some prayer potions).



I TD'ed in 2007 when it was released, I  got claws on release but my friend had coinshare on and I think the split was about 20k each.






Yeah Veiva I tried to get Toad back but when I told him that top-end Araxxor gear cost over 200M he decided against it lol

That's like 25 hours at Tormented Demons...


8M/hr at TDS with say GWD armor and a limited familiarity with EoC?


You use void at Tormented Demons (free). I'm sure Toad has overloads and access to Soul Split and the Turmoil clones. Upwards of 140 KPH is easily attainable with Virtus wand + book and an equivalent tier 80 range weapon; this equates to about 7.7m gp/hr gross considering current prices. The brunt of efficient TD killing requires minimal knowledge of EoC (well, if you don't plan on looking for efficient rotations yourself).


It's actually excruciatingly easy to remember the rotations. For dual wield range, it's simply Needle Strike and then one of Shadow Tendrils / Snap Shot / Bombardment (in that order of priority; whichever better one is off cool down, use it). If you use two-handed range, simply replace Needle Strike with Dazing Shot. For dual wield magic, it's slightly more complex: prioritize Concentrated Blast and Wild Magic over Asphyxiate and Wrack. In either case, you wait for the first hit to land (Concentrated Blast or Asphyxiate) and then use the second ability noted. Two-hand magic is worthless because of some bizarre delay with Wild Magic; don't use it.


After each rotation, switch ability bars, change prayers, and equip your new weapon(s) and helm. You shouldn't wait to even see if you actually dealt enough damage; maybe twice an hour you'll have so switch back, so it's a case of wasting ~10 seconds an hour or ~3 seconds every switch. That's it. The majority of it simply takes training your muscle memory, not caring so much about mechanics.


In honesty, people who are slow/inefficient at killing Tormented Demons and complain about gear switching are simply lazy. You just need to train your muscle memory; after that, while still not AFKable, you don't really concentrate that hard.



I don't know about the prayers since I haven't bothered to keep up with the game, Virtus wand and book nope, overloads yes I maxed in mid 2009.


The issue isn't because "I don't know how", because the RS combat system is just a copy paste job from pretty much 95% of any other MMO out there, and with RS the gear system is not diverse like many other MMOs but the main fact I have is that I don't see any content in RS that makes me want to play.


If I look at old screenshots, I miss the idea of playing, I miss the game as it was in 2001-2011, I miss some of the people but the game isn't the same anymore, it's very fragmented, the game is just too AFK in places.

Towards the end I played simply becase I had invested too much time in the game, it was a chore, I didn't need gratification from a game, but I stayed for my friends mainly, I had closure from helping some friends out before I quit though.

The large issue for me, although I think I was well respected amongst the HLF, Tip.it and my friends over a decade or so, was simply because I think the game stagnated and after Andrew sold the company I didn't like the way the game was heading, I saw Chris L left too who I think was arguably the best mod, and they killed half of the content I loved.


Dungeoneering for instance, was well balanced (I know Chris L developed that with Tricks I believe), the XP was fine, the collaberation was wonderful, to use your judgment so many mechanics came into play and it was a very sociable experience, then later (not the original dev) comes along and adds things like daily challenges, sink holes. Even worse than that, more gates, all that DG every needed was an extra bind, maybe another ammo bind, nothing more. I think Jagex "add too much" to some content killing it off when it should be down to the original devs to tweak the content.


I still pop in to the occasional RS stream, but I have no ambitions to play. I have a hundred things I want to do in real life without RS consuming my free time, I can use that time to learn a new language or further myself in my career, I think the baton is passed to the next generation of players and some of the ones that played in the days of greater demons being the strongest monster or bluerose having a monopoly of the market is dead (even before that).




Yeah Veiva I tried to get Toad back but when I told him that top-end Araxxor gear cost over 200M he decided against it lol

That's like 25 hours at Tormented Demons...


8M/hr at TDS with say GWD armor and a limited familiarity with EoC?



I don't think EoC is hard to grasp, I toyed with the idea to come back I think, but I spoke to probably 30 people about playing.


One was top 10 says no, one I think top 50 says the game is pay to win basically and those with money get where they want faster, others just say it's not the same game so don't bother, I think actually out of the 30 I asked, one said it's ok in moderation, and the people I actually keep in touch with that played the game all have lost interest apart from about 2.

I know a few that play old school though, but that doesn't interest me as I don't understand how they can make a 2007 RuneScape then add content that never existed in 2007, or 2015, it's bizarre. It's like going to the dark ages and taking planes and smartphones.

Maybe in 2020 or so there'll be something that makes the game look like worth playing, I agree some of the quests look ok in RuneScape though.

#5577028 5th October 2015 - Virtual Levelling | Ninja Update

Posted by Toad on 09 October 2015 - 08:58 AM

Slowly the game is moving towards 120 skills, like it or not.


For me it's quite a funny sight to see, 120 I don't think is hard at all looking at training methods available.

When I did Runecrafting for example it was 20-25k/h tops now what was 99 and the "respect" you got from 99 Runecrafting has been eclipsed by 120, which is it somewhere the same hours (I believe you can push around 250k xp now which shows the hours input is completely the same and perhaps easier to do so (if not lesser)) and MUCH MORE AFK.

Then again I've seen it grow from classic to this and it's a new generation of players that perhaps on the face of the plethora of tablet games they have to dumb down the game a little (from what it was).


I was watching Zezimas quitting statement years ago before he came back casually, he said he quit because "the game is becoming too easy, it's no longer a challenge", and skills are greatly valued now, 120 even 200m means nothing generally.

Virtual levels great, but the reality is when they fill gear to 99, with high level content which has been dragged out as long as the 10 year Prffdinnas window will push the skill cap to 120 and they'll then fill to 120. It's inevitable.


I have no idea how there's still joy in RS when you can just toggle on a prayer and get upwards of 600-800k in some skills, but to each their own.