Orwellian novel - Ideas welcome!

[MC_Kejml]

Hello there!

 

 

 

I made this topic before, but it strangely got published in its half so I deleted it. Also I wasnt sure about copycats, but I believe nobody would try to pull this trick off since of the obvious reasons.

 

 

 

So basically, this book I've been thinking about is of Orwellian nature, talking about future evolution of young people. It's solely from my head so far, so I wanted to ask you whether you could reply with ideas or thoughts about it, what could I include, improve, keep focus on and so, please.

 

All opinions are very welcome! Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

SYNOPSIS The Simpleton

 

 

 

Citation: The weak and ill-constituted shall perish: first principle of our philanthropy. And one shall help them to do so. ( Nietzsche )

 

 

 

Or

 

 

 

 

 

If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.

 

 

 

or

 

 

 

 

 

" "Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain."

 

 

 

-George Orwell

 

 

 

or

 

 

 

What can be described better?With schools turning out more runners, jumpers, racers, tinkerers, grabbers, snatchers, fliers, and swimmers instead of examiners, critics, knowers, and imaginative creators, the word 'intellectual,' of course, became the swear word it deserved to be.

 

 

 

-Ray Bradbury

 

Prologue

 

(2008)

 

- A great entry of a group of computer players clan on a gaming convention in China, 2008, called WORLD CYBER GAMES. The entry is similar to the one in Rocky 4 Apollo Creed used, with music, lights, and all that. It serves as a metaphor for the good times dying and also as the last optimistic written entry in the book.

 

-

 

Beginning

 

(2012)

 

 

 

- It begins with a traditional, routine day in high school, showing all the negative circumstances and psychology of the main hero and his world, such as inescapable news, living alone with no real care from the parents, political and personal harassment, etc.

 

-

 

- Then, when he visits the school toilet, he sees one of his longtime friends shooting several bullies from his class with a gun. He shot many people from his class except for several whom he believed to be friendly. They, however, betray him, and call the police. The main hero chats with his insane friend for a bit, then the friend is shot by the intolerant police.

 

- The shocked main hero resorts to some kind of a hobby, seeing that this event was too much and he escapes from reality he finds out this small community of historical swordsmen. They are on the same vibe as him. protoe toto byl vrchol. The battles held there ventilate his anger, making him a better person.

 

 

 

- Then, the group of swordsmen (including the main hero), goes on a weekend trip on a castle.

 

 

 

The middle

 

 

 

- For the first time, thoughts about an ideal life for the swordsmen resurface. They say that the ideal life is possible only in their own communities, close-knit and farfetched to the outside viewer. Then, we discover the past romantic stories of the main hero ( and he thinks whether they were the key to a ideal life for him ). They all failed.

 

-

 

- He asks his smoking friend (nicknamed BeDman) why does he smoke and he reveals to him a bit about Survival of the Fittest. The main hero doesnt understand and the group goes back home. Before parting ways, a girl name, familiar to the main hero, is mentioned by BeDman(Main hero and the girl are neighbors, that paradoxically havent seen each other for 9 years). The main hero forgets soon after.

 

 

 

- Another typical schoolday comes. As bad as the day before, the main hero again resorts to the swordsmen. He finds out that the girl mentioned before really also participates in the historical battles as some kind of a priestess. They get together and spend some great times, but the hero is later backstabbed by her by sms or on a social network.

 

 

 

- The desperate hero turns to his friend BeDman, which now redirects him to a certain book, placed on some kind of a last torrent, whose only seeder is BeDman. BeDman explains to him what happened and what is his position in the hieararchy, mentioned in the book.

 

 

 

Hierarchy of teens, mentioned in the book.

 

 

 

MEL The Melancholical, nearly extinct kind. Extremely kind and nice, they dont stand the outer world well and often resort to depressions, madness, or even suicide. No chance of survival.

 

MEL-EM The Melancholical, which have through self-help and enduring tried to reach the intellectual and physical potential of The Empty. However, they retained their benevolence, depressions and habits to give up.

 

The Empty You remember your rich and balanced classmate from a rich family, do you? Those that have the highest potential to survive. They get over depressions fairly quickly and they dont have the need to talk about them such as MELs, they have a healthy amount of confidence, feel safe and sound at home, they have a certain background to rely on and their future is ultimately decided that adjusts their tone in life and that is the reason why can they

 

survive.

 

TH-EM The Thunderous, which have been broken from their behaviours and try to fix themselves. Their tone in life frees them from procrastioation and giving up, but they still lack the psychical potential of The Empty.

 

TH The Thunderous. Basically stupid, cruel, and spoilt people. They are either from rich families ( thus spoilt ), or from the middle-class ( they have background and they dont worry about taking anything from life, even from the lives of others). They have confidence and perseverance, but they lack the psychical and feeling potential to survive. These also abuse their peers who arent ready to have relationships into them through Peer Pressure. They of course fail, and that is the way of Thunderouss world purifying by Survival of the Fittest.

 

 

 

There, the main hero founds out about everything. About smoking, BeDmans nickname, the hierarchy, Survival of the Fittest, books like for example PUA artists make(Artificial selection instead of Natural selection) and so on. He finds a phrase that only The Empty can survive, but not him, who is The Melancholical at the moment. The book also writes about social groups, like chavs, goths, and such.

 

 

 

Ends ( three )

 

 

 

The Melancholic : Shocked by the discovery grabs his fathers gun and does the same thing as his clan friend. He is also shot.

 

 

 

The Melancholical - Empty: He invests into self help and education and tries to become one of The Empty (only hopeful ending not sure if Ill make him fail, too)

 

 

 

The Thunderous: Hero begins to behave agressively, drowning his feelings and doubts in alcohol and drugs. He becames one of The Thunderous. He slowly degenerates by cancer and global body rot and is later killed in a brawl against other Thunderous.

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I think you would be much better off writing a non-orwellian novel and instead focus on the physcological aspects of teenage depression.

 

 

 

Simply because you have not described an Orwellian style system, but a more fair version of our current system-in our current system those who are spoilt have the greatest chance of survival because no matter what happens they will make it to the end of the race.

 

 

 

Your story is reminicant of Columbine, only you describe a time where that is more commonplace...

 

 

 

I think major problem with your premise is that the MELs seem to go and kill people before they die themselves....hence Natural and Artifical selection fails because the selection of who dies is ultimately random.

 

The only possible Orwellian overtone is the idea that the children of parents who don't really spend any time with them(and hence don't form lasting relationships) have a better chance of surviving the world than the ones where their parents do love them(and therefore have a good outlook on life).

 

Hence your system tends towards becoming more degenerate with each passing generation, but such a theory misses the general three stroke rule:

 

If a parent mistreats their child then that child will look for strong relationships outside of their family.

 

If they find that relationship they will have a strong connection and thus love their children excessively.

 

This leads to children who are not so neccessarily inclined to strong relationships.

 

Leading to poor emotional relations and mistreated children...

 

Hence the three stroke system. While it is largely incorrect(most families follow a much longer set of strokes before repeating itself) it does counter the general Orwellian logic that life only gets worse...

[MC_Kejml]

Thank you for your interesting reply! If you are open for some discussion that in the end improves the book, I'll divide what you said in pieces and we'll try to talk about every topic described.

 

 

 

Simply because you have not described an Orwellian style system, but a more fair version of our current system-in our current system those who are spoilt have the greatest chance of survival because no matter what happens they will make it to the end of the race.

 

This is true, however we must bear in mind that those who are spoilt in the book could simply be so spoilt that they can't do anything on their own. They believe money, looks, or whatever we can say they are "spoilt" with are the thing with which they can achieve anything, that might not be true. They, for example, may never get the feeling of need of education to achieve major goals - and even survive.

 

Those would be The Thunderous, right? You probably see the difference between The Thunderous and The Empty.

 

Also bear in mind that those are all extremes of some current character traits. On the other hand, it's not that I haven't seen some of pure THs, MELs, or The Empty in our time.

 

A good example of a TH is that Guido guy, a good MEL could be - well - I can't think of anyone, because with their profiles they haven't gone far. A decent MEL-EM, nearly reaching The Empty, could be Dale Carnegie or Bob Proctor. We might even say Abraham Lincoln. A good TH-EMs were Kurt Cobain or Jim Morrisson.

 

 

 

Please, correct me if I am wrong. I do not want to outrage anybody, moreso the hierarchy talks about young people mostly ( and they can retain their traits till adulthood. )

 

 

 

Your story is reminicant of Columbine, only you describe a time where that is more commonplace...

 

Never read that, however, thanks for mentioning!

 

 

 

... Just googled it. Ah crap.

 

 

 

I think major problem with your premise is that the MELs seem to go and kill people before they die themselves....hence Natural and Artifical selection fails because the selection of who dies is ultimately random.

 

 

 

Well, some of MELs can go crazy and go on a killing spree, but most of them just keep it to themselves and it literally rots them from within. Also, those sprees can only hardly affect natural selection, since there are just several of them. It's not an annual shootout, but it just randomly goes out. (sorry for my english :/ )

 

 

 

The only possible Orwellian overtone is the idea that the children of parents who don't really spend any time with them(and hence don't form lasting relationships) have a better chance of surviving the world than the ones where their parents do love them(and therefore have a good outlook on life).

 

 

 

Very interesing, thanks for mentioning. The Empty are children whom parents care about, though. I believe it's all about the raising and the background for them.

 

It could happen that MEL-EMs, TH-EMs, or even MELs or THs could survive, but it's highly improbable.

 

 

 

Hence your system tends towards becoming more degenerate with each passing generation, but such a theory misses the general three stroke rule:

 

If a parent mistreats their child then that child will look for strong relationships outside of their family.

 

In my work, a good MEL, the main hero, found such "salvation" in the swordsmen. An TH could find some "hope" on the street, or in bullying, by cooperating with other THs.

 

 

 

If they find that relationship they will have a strong connection and thus love their children excessively. This leads to children who are not so neccessarily inclined to strong relationships.

 

Leading to poor emotional relations and mistreated children...

 

Yes, and that is the reason why might it fail for THs or MELs. In the MELs case, the love is, as you truely mentioned, excessive and self-sacrificing ( you know the movie quote "I want to give him all I never had...".) HOWEVER, an Empty one could rise from such relationships.

 

THs could produce either a MEL ( unhappy that his parents don't care for them ) or a TH ( Stifler from American Pie. )

 

On the other hand, we just tackled the subject of occassional THs or MELs surviving. I'm thinking about some genetic hereditial traits, but I'm not sure. Help, please?

 

 

 

 

 

Hence the three stroke system. While it is largely incorrect(most families follow a much longer set of strokes before repeating itself) it does counter the general Orwellian logic that life only gets worse...

 

I am not sure, but that might not happen in the future which I am talking about. Maybe 2012 is really and odd date, I mean, 3 years, but I mainly chose it for its' cryptic meaning.

[archimage_a]

Wow another author willing to discuss, its a miracle! :

 

 

 

 

 

They, for example, may never get the feeling of need of education to achieve major goals - and even survive.

 

 

 

The thing about spoilt people is that they tend to have a demanding attitute, as such they are given things by the MELs and Empties...Since they are so self centered they feed off of any form of compassion, which the Empties will have because they are willing to give anything a go. Added to that spoilt people come from never needing anything else, so the chances of them actually needing anything in later life is remote.

 

 

 

On the other hand, it's not that I haven't seen some of pure THs, MELs, or The Empty in our time.

 

 

 

I don't know, I am pretty much a MEL, everything for other people.

 

I have a friend/ex-friend who could be described as a pure empty.

 

And I would have said I didn't know any thunderous, but then I had a dream last night which reminded me of someone who fits the mold perfectly...So I would say that your world already exists, only in different proportions.

 

 

 

Well, some of MELs can go crazy and go on a killing spree, but most of them just keep it to themselves and it literally rots them from within. Also, those sprees can only hardly affect natural selection, since there are just several of them. It's not an annual shootout, but it just randomly goes out. (sorry for my english :/ )

 

 

 

Well, it it starts out from someone going on a killing spree and ends with someone going on a killing spree...

 

It would appear to be more common that it is.

 

 

 

It could happen that MEL-EMs, TH-EMs, or even MELs or THs could survive, but it's highly improbable.

 

 

 

It seems more likely that the TH would survive...In anarchy might is right...Otherwise it is always the most trustable, which would be the MELs...

 

 

 

In my work, a good MEL, the main hero, found such "salvation" in the swordsmen. An TH could find some "hope" on the street, or in bullying, by cooperating with other THs.

 

 

 

I am not sure about the swords men...they would appear to be outside of the rules of convention...AKA they don't fit into the system. So either they are delusional, which makes everything in his mind, or they mess the system up....

 

 

 

 

 

I'm thinking about some genetic hereditial traits, but I'm not sure. Help, please?

 

 

 

In a sense you are trying to prove Eugenics would work, and while it is a plausible theory, it runs into numerous problems. Not least of which is what behavouir is often based on experiance not genetics. We have developed a lot from the days that we could be put into specific boxes, we have diversified beyond that point, and while your catagories still remain they are deminishing not increasing...however in that increased state there are less good people and less bad people, meaning that good and bad have narrower and narrower confinements, so much so that no one can be wholy good, and as such there is no way to be good and so it is much easier to be bad...

 

 

 

I am not sure, but that might not happen in the future which I am talking about. Maybe 2012 is really and odd date, I mean, 3 years, but I mainly chose it for its' cryptic meaning.

 

 

 

A later date would be better.

[MC_Kejml]

Wow another author willing to discuss, its a miracle! :

 

 

 

For one, I wouldn't want to publish some half-baked crap that grew in my mind, so I'm pretty happy when I can discuss it with others. The plausibility is important, too. Thanks again!

 

 

 

 

 

The thing about spoilt people is that they tend to have a demanding attitute, as such they are given things by the MELs and Empties...Since they are so self centered they feed off of any form of compassion, which the Empties will have because they are willing to give anything a go. Added to that spoilt people come from never needing anything else, so the chances of them actually needing anything in later life is remote.

 

 

 

It seems more likely that the TH would survive...In anarchy might is right...Otherwise it is always the most trustable, which would be the MELs...

 

 

 

By reading that i started to think whether it shouldn't be rebuilt that the THs survive (as the baddies of the story) and some hope would lie in Empties (as the good guys). It would make the story less dark, too. Remember Orwell's "the hope lies within the proles".

 

 

 

I don't know, I am pretty much a MEL, everything for other people.

 

I have a friend/ex-friend who could be described as a pure empty.

 

And I would have said I didn't know any thunderous, but then I had a dream last night which reminded me of someone who fits the mold perfectly...So I would say that your world already exists, only in different proportions.

 

 

 

There you have it. I seriously fear how much I am right in this.

 

 

 

Well, it it starts out from someone going on a killing spree and ends with someone going on a killing spree...

 

It would appear to be more common that it is.

 

 

 

More common than now probably yes. I'll think more about it, but my case rests: Natural selection can't be abridged with this too much.

 

 

 

I am not sure about the swords men...they would appear to be outside of the rules of convention...AKA they don't fit into the system. So either they are delusional, which makes everything in his mind, or they mess the system up....

 

 

 

The swordsmen are on a similar vibe as the main hero. Say MELs or MEL-EMs. Maybe even some TH-EMs. However there is a nice idea with the illusion.

 

 

 

In a sense you are trying to prove Eugenics would work, and while it is a plausible theory, it runs into numerous problems. Not least of which is what behavouir is often based on experiance not genetics. We have developed a lot from the days that we could be put into specific boxes, we have diversified beyond that point, and while your catagories still remain they are deminishing not increasing...however in that increased state there are less good people and less bad people, meaning that good and bad have narrower and narrower confinements, so much so that no one can be wholy good, and as such there is no way to be good and so it is much easier to be bad...

 

 

 

Ah crap, I don't get it. Is it that what shapes a human is mainly experience, not hereditary genes?

 

 

 

A later date would be better.

 

 

 

Let's say 2030?

 

 

 

Or I can pull off a 1984 and set it in the present.

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The book was supposed to be called 1948(two years after publishing)

 

 

 

Remember Orwell's "the hope lies within the proles".

 

 

 

What Smith meant was that they make up the majority of the community and they are largely undecided... So, if you applied it to this story, hope lies with the Thunderous...As they are the group which don't subscribe to the airheaded view, they have the most capacity to restore a fair and equal world...and when you are relying on the spoilt brats of the world to be fair there is a problem #-o

 

 

 

Natural selection can't be abridged with this too much.

 

Natural selection is the process of many small changes that happened over millions of years...if the end result of those millions of years is killed by something then all that work is gone.

 

If the first animal in the chain is destroyed then none of that work can take place.

 

 

 

Natural selection means survival of the fittest...so unless a bullet resistance trait crops up survivial of the fittest does not apply, therefore natual selection does not apply.

 

 

 

 

 

Ah crap, I don't get it. Is it that what shapes a human is mainly experience, not hereditary genes?

 

 

 

Basically...

 

 

 

That was quick. Ok I will go back:

 

 

 

some hope would lie in Empties

 

Unlikely. Empties are fundermentally flawed in the same way the thunderous are...They are not that bothered about the world or the people in the world. Their relationships are not solid but sudden, leading to a decay in morality, which leads to destructive behavouir:

 

 

 

Example.

 

If you start smoking when you are 13 then you are not breaking the law(As far as I know). However if you want to buy cigerettes you will be breaking the law.

 

So you have 5 years of breaking the law. Meaning the law is worthless. Meaning you can break other laws. So you do.

 

 

 

You start something which is not inherantly bad, which leads to something which is inherantly bad, which leads to destructive behavouir.

[MC_Kejml]

The book was supposed to be called 1948(two years after publishing)

 

Yep, I know. Maybe 1948 and 1984 - just flipped numbers? I meant an alternate version of our timeline, but that is probably a too crazy idea.

 

 

 

What Smith meant was that they make up the majority of the community and they are largely undecided... So, if you applied it to this story, hope lies with the Thunderous...As they are the group which don't subscribe to the airheaded view, they have the most capacity to restore a fair and equal world...and when you are relying on the spoilt brats of the world to be fair there is a problem #-o

 

 

 

Nope. I meant it on the complete opposite: The Empty are the hopes in a world to which THs are spread.

 

 

 

Natural selection is the process of many small changes that happened over millions of years...if the end result of those millions of years is killed by something then all that work is gone.

 

If the first animal in the chain is destroyed then none of that work can take place.

 

 

 

Natural selection means survival of the fittest...so unless a bullet resistance trait crops up survivial of the fittest does not apply, therefore natual selection does not apply.

 

 

 

 

That is true. I just meant that the scale is pretty big and few shootouts couldn't really be a problem - Whole world is going SotF, so, say - ten shootouts can't possibly work around much.

 

 

 

 

 

Unlikely. Empties are fundermentally flawed in the same way the thunderous are...They are not that bothered about the world or the people in the world. Their relationships are not solid but sudden, leading to a decay in morality, which leads to destructive behavouir

 

 

 

Well, relationships of Empties are solid in the book. Remember they are well raised in abundance and they don't abuse it, so they know a lot about good, solid relationships. I'd expect sudden relationships from MELs, since they are confused and unsure. Same with THs, because they aren't stable, but just "ruled".

 

 

 

Example.

 

If you start smoking when you are 13 then you are not breaking the law(As far as I know). However if you want to buy cigerettes you will be breaking the law.

 

So you have 5 years of breaking the law. Meaning the law is worthless. Meaning you can break other laws. So you do.

 

 

 

You start something which is not inherantly bad, which leads to something which is inherantly bad, which leads to destructive behavouir.

 

A good example right there, and I believe those are some of the things from which THs and other non-Empties are made. That said, I don't believe Empties are the good superheroes, but they don't exactly need or abuse the breaking of laws.

[archimage_a]

Hmmm...you almost seem to be describing a utopia, where most people are in solid relationships...a system in which there is less, not more, pain.

[MC_Kejml]

Well, you have the 5 personality types, from which two are unstable, two have very small hope to survive and one is basically predestined to survive.

 

 

 

I was deciding whether I'll make it that world will evolve into a generation of "evil" THs with some hope lying in Empties, (ignoring the previous sentence)

 

 

 

or

 

 

 

a "purging" of the world from all the MELs and THs, turning it into just an Empty society. The message here would be the rounding of personality types, resulting in only one, which possibly can't be changed a lot. And could very well be turned into a uniformed mass like in 1984, or a army of consumers.

 

 

 

I'd probably need some more advice, what do you think?