chambochae

But if there, in all those years, no logical explonation has been found... What makes you think that there will be found one soon? Besides, as I posted on Scape, the bible is REALLY trustworth book, can't be bothered to explain why because I have to study. :P But as soon as we get the database back, I'll show you why. ;) It took me a day to write it and look that up :\ And yet, ultimately, it was written by humans claiming to have a voice in their head. Therefore, in order to call the bible trustworthy, you first need to prove God exists. Then you need to prove he's not a liar. Then you need to prove that God instructed humans to write all of the bible. I'm talking mainly about genesis here. For example, it is entirely possible that God does exist and he did instruct humans to write the bible, then one of those humans thought "hmm, this needs some kind of introduction" and proceeded to write genesis without divine instruction, making it up as he went along. Entirely possible. Meesy, in my opinion, we will never find a logical explanation as to what caused the big bang. This is because we are a part of this universe, we are inside it, we cannot see out (even if "seeing" has any meaning at all outside), we cannot go outside to have a look (a heck of a long way to travel, even if "going" has any meaning outside, and even if going outside were possible). But science is a continuous process. We are continually learning more, it doesn't all happen in a day. So who knows, maybe we will know someday.

Lol, when I press the link about how close scientists are to discovering how live started, I get a "page not found". Coincidence? Btw, roll your eyes at me, I couldn't care less. Well they are there. I just tested them. In two browsers, and refreshed. I got that page via google, it probably has a cache of it... here. And it's not a link about how scientists are close to finding how life started, it's a page about the ways in which life could actually start.

Please, refute my actual reasons, where are my objections to matter being eternal wrong? The things of this earth can break down and renew because they are given energy from different places (ie the sun). In the beginning, how can this matter get energy enough to reproduce? And how does a non-living thing reproduce? Matter is just another form of energy. Energy is never created or destroyed. Yup, E = MC^2 (Energy = Mass * Square of the Speed of Light). That formula just proves that as soon as you go with the speed of light, your mass will increase so you will go slower. Has very little to do with od or the first life on earth. And btw, scientist still have *no* idea how the first life form (bactery) came on earth, they suspect that because of high presure on a certain (unknown and no longer excisting) protein there suddenly was a bactery *POOF*! Don't you believe them? Me either. What you mean is that you have no idea how life started. I really suggest you read this page on the origins of life. It's very detailed. Also the NASA website has lots of info on how life may have started, including experiments to show it could happen. I wouldn't call that having *no* idea of how life started. so... tempted... to use... rolly eyes... must resist!

As far as I see it, the only other option is matter. Matter + A God = 2:infinity bet. It could be a giant chicken. It could be a circle with a diameter of three times it's radius. It could be absolutely, completely and utterly, anything at all. Even the things that the we are unable to even contemplate because we are a part of this universe and are subject to it's laws.

Naw. The definition of a necessary being is one that has always been, it is uncaused. A necessary being is necessary for atheists and theists alike. It's just a different being depending on what you believe. For theists, it's God. For most atheists, it would be matter. For me, it could be absolutely anything whatsoever. We have absolutely no real clue what is outside our universe, so the thing that caused our universe to exist could be... anything. If our universe was a ripple in a pond, that ripple could have been caused by a god like being deliberately making a splash, or it could have been caused by an acorn falling off a tree, or a drop of water raining from the sky. The ripple doesn't know, can't know, doesn't really need to know what created it. All it knows is to spread outwards, that's all it can do.* But if it were to speculate as to what created it, well it could be absolutely anything. I believe we are in that situation. *like the ripple only knows to spread outwards, all we know is the laws of physics in our universe. So really, in my opinion, to believe a god created the universe is like entering a bet when the odds of winning are one in infinity.

In the previous topic(s), when they began, I was a little naive. I declared myself an atheist, but what I really meant was agnostic. Prove to me a god exists and I will believe in it. In the meantime, I am leading a happy life, and follow many religious points anyway, because they are common sense. You can lead a good life without being religious. But one thing I am 100% sure of is that the Christian idea of god does not exist. If a god exists, it is not the christian idea of god, I am sure of it. But I am open minded if you can persuade me otherwise. .