Hagge

No offence, but this J-Mod in question happens to be the CEO of the company. If he don't consider it a Demo, I reckon we can assume that is the policy of the company aswell. And if anything, P2P would be considered an expansion pack considering the history of the game. I was hoping for something more constructive and less stereotypical to be posted...

A few months back I made a suggestions on the RSOF to have the KBD, KQ and Giant Mole made F2P along with the Dragon Armour pieces dropped by these monsters. Admittedly, with the main thought on the KBD and the Dragon Med Helm. This topic can be found here. The discussion I wish to raise is how and why you think this would affect the game, the content involved, and the community. Now, for those who don't wish to read through my entire post on the RSOF a short recap of the suggestions would probably be useful, so to sum most of it up; Alot of players have been asking for F2P boss monsters over the past year, partly to legitimize having lootshare available on F2P worlds. That being said, and me being the practical person I am, I though: "Hey, why waste valuable content development time on making a brand new boss for F2P?" So I put two and two together and made four, or in other words, I realised how purposeless many of our older boss monsters are now. Low value drops, and new powerful armours and weapons turn these once mighty giants into something most of us would choose to do for our slayer task, because they give more xp. And the Dragon Med which once was the best helmet ingame, with a street value of 5m+ (Back in the days when 5m was ALOT, yes I'm talking about classic) has been reduced to an item you buy at minimum in the GE to high alch for a few gp profit. My solution to the problem was that these monsters, with a slight adjustment to the drop tables such as dropping big bones instead of dragon bones in F2P, and not dropping herbs or dragonhides, would be made available to F2P players. This would increase the size of the market and thus the demand, whilst keeping the supply more or less the same, as without antipoision and antifire potions it would require large teams in F2P to kill them, making P2P still the main supply for these items. Giving the item some value and use again, as the best F2P helmet. Yet it would hardly affect the combat triangle in F2P, as the added defence bonus is only +4. (Correct me on this if I'm wrong) And it would thus make the monsters worthwhile going to again both on F2P and P2P, it would give the items back their use, it would make most F2P players happy for another half year or so. That would probably explain most of the initial idea, however, not surprisingly I recieved alot of criticism for suggesting this with posts such as: On the other hand I also recieved alot of support as time went on, even grabbed the attention of a J-Mod. But with time the topic has dwindled down, and I've been working too much to keep it up. Now here comes the point, I'm thinking of re-vamping it by making a more structured and researched presentation of the idea, but to do that I need some help. In form of a constructive discussion of the subject, thus why I created this topic. I hope to see people lay out their pro's and con's of the issue, and will be doing my best to answer and further discuss the subject. Facts: F2P is intended as a game, not as a demo. (Stated by Mod MMG) Creating BRAND NEW content requires ALOT of development time The Dragon Med Helm Alch Price is 60k The Dragon Med Helm GE selling price has been laying steadily around 59k-70k for the past two years The KBD was the first boss monster introduced to the game in classic (Not counting Elvarg) There are currently more then 1.8 million players with 60+ Defence if you include F2P

That for real?? Using a method to get around the game's natural log out function you'd think would still be against the rules :( Anyhow me appologies for takin stupid take on name wrong, like someone saying Xout Inc or something lol just a joke eh? GJ on win BK, look forward to future rematch to hear about 8) Well, if X'ing out was agains't the J-rules, then you'd get banned for having connection lost ;) They can't ban people for having bad computers :P And they can't see any difference between that and X'ing unless they hack peoples computers, so it's impossible for them to keep a rule like that, therefor it doesn't "X-ist" :P

Stickman, read my post please? The reason we gained so many members before the delaration was that people were war hungy, and everyone expected a war agains't SOMEONE, it didn't have anything to do with a GLADZ war... So in that case, we should have just the same opportunity as you to recruit people after declaration, shouldn't we? I mean, just because f. ex. Exer gains 100 new members in a month, as that month there are most people around their requirements, who know people in that clan that are looking for a clan, then a few days after that month has gone, Exer declares on Corr, should Corr then be able to demand that they can have open requirements 2 weeks more then Exer can? Just because Exer have more members? That wouldn't really show which clan was the best of them would it? Because an important thing for a clan is actually it's ability to recruit people too, or to attract people... In that case, maybe you should declare on DI and demand that they ain't allowed to train for another month because their members have such high lvls... Or that their lower lvl members have trained alot lately and therefor gained an "unusual" amount of xp? Wouldn't that be unfair guys? Yeah, I say it would be communistic, so what do you say? Lets make Jagex take everybody in RS xp, and then share evenly on all the characters in the game huh? THAT would be one hell of an idea wouldn't it? Completely in the short guys name... (Joseph Stalin) For them with a defect in their humoristic sense, incase any of them read this topic, the above was sarcasm...

Apostle, I'm BK dude, read what I'm saying, I'm saying that rumors change the real stories to complete crap, and that's why the Gladz intelligence got the facts wrong...

We also had pending applications from the Anarchy war that ended up going through. I am for certain we had 15-20 people who applied during the Anarchy war but could not join until after the war which was when BK declared on us. Here's the rundown of what I noticed before war was ever declared or talked about between Gladz and BK. As some of you know, I'm the War General of The Gladiatorz. With that title comes a lot of responsibility(I'm sure any War General can vouch for that) and one of those is scouting out clans to war or miniwar and keeping track of the competition such as member counts and HP averages. Right before Anarchy declared on us me and WAP18 had a short conversation about Gladz and BK on MSN. We discussed making Gladz and BK relations better amongst other things. It was a nice conversation to say the least. In that conversation I asked WAP18, who is BKs War General and is very close to Phunk, if there would ever be a chance of our two clans colliding in the near future. His answer was no much to my suprise with all of the flaming some BK members and Phunk had been doing on tipit and RSC. Nonetheless, I still kept an eye on their members list because they were in equal power to us and rumors were also floating around that they were getting 60-80 people showing up to PK trips. At the time BK had fewer members than Gladz did which was around 220 and Gladz had just hit 240 with an active 217 members, respectively. Around the time you guys declared on us you had 260 members in BK, which Phunk can verify for you in a conversation that I had with him and WAP18 a couple nights ago. I don't believe that you guys mass recruited for this war, but my gut instinct tells me that you knew it was coming and were preparing to war us before war was ever declared. You gained 40 members in a matter of 3 weeks and another 60-80 members in 2 weeks. After you cleaned your list you had 320 members in BK right before the war happened, yesterday. However, there are no rules about this for any clan and so I am just rambling about nothing I suppose. Just a point that I thought should have been made. I don't doubt that BK will be around for a long time, but be weary of the hunger to be the best. Growing rapidly is good in the short run, but in the long run it poses many problems. Goodluck. I see your point, and I understand it due to the information, however your speculations are just partly right, and I guess I can clear up a little which might have caused some trouble here... You say that BK got alot of members in a short amount of time, even before war was declared, that's correct, but we didn't know about the war yet, nothing had been decided... What happened, was that alot of new people was in BK, like me, I've only been BK since june, so yeah, I'm pretty new, and among us "newcomers" to BK, there were plenty of war-hunger... Remember, we had just defeated Anarchy and TRWF in Mini-wars, people felt ready to take up one of the clans high up, so we knew that SOME war would come, and people took initiative to be more active recruiters themselves at that time... But at this point, it was not yet decided who we would war, so it had nothing to do with the Gladz war, it simply was because of a general "war-hunger" that was in BK at that time... I hope this cleared up one or two things for you, and helps you to prevent further flaming between the clans, as I suppose that's something we both wish to prevent... Reputation of flaming wouldn't be good for any of the clans...

In fact, I can remember one beeing a little close to it, but not really pushing... It was Phunk posting, telling all BK's to, if they had any friends looking for clans, to give them a little push in the right direction... However, that's far from pushing the members to recruit all their friends, but you know how stories can get twisted with time... Some Gladz spy, probably told it further a little different to the wrong person, who then twisted it even more, and down through the link it finally got to something like BK hacking people's accounts, lending to IRL friend to get more people on, aswell as threatening people to join, and stuff like that I suppose... In other words, rumors may give rocks life and teach them to fly...

Bern, Squire, may I please ask you to take the arguement somewhere else? Both Gladz AND BK leaders have posted, asking for you not to flame, so please don't come with anything, anything at all unless you can prove it on here... Take it to PM's, then nobody cares how much crap you talk to eachother, but leave this topic clean!!!

I totally agree :) As close as it could get, I honestly thought we were losing a little while too (mostly because I hung out on the wrong side of the ruins, where all the gladz members gathered for their piling waves :P) Great tactical skills shown by both clans, aswell as great fighting skills :D And for what ThirdDegree said, I would like to use the exact same words about BK, I think both clans have a great gain on this war, because it's shown them who's the loyal members, who's the ones who'll stick around in a fight, till the last end, and who'll leave the rest to die... For the runners on both side, I have nothing else to say then that I blame none of the clans, these people were a disgrace to their clans, but at the same time, it made the clans even better, as it showed that even though members betray the rest of the clan, and leave them to meet death, the clans still manage to fight on, they survive through betrayal by some of their own members, and for BK's part they even won, for Gladz part, they managed to still put up a great fight, damaging BK severly, and actually beeing close to winning... So I does not only wish to congratulate my fellow BK's, I would also like to congratulate all the Gladz members who stood, and fought till the end, dieing with their honour in possession, in such a matter, the rune you lose, the loss you suffer, doesn't matter at all, what matters is the honour you gain! BK and Gladz both probably put up one of the greatest war trainings before the war, then any other clan could have done... Not even DI (Mostly because of their average lvls are too high :P) *Does a virtual hand-shake with all gladz members that didn't run or return, and all the BK members that didn't run or return...* When I look at a clan like BK and gladz, I don't decide their reputation by individuals doing bad things, I count the honour of each member, and get the average honour per member, then an individuals faults doesn't matter, as long as we have people who rescue the clan-reputation by showing their nobility, and showing off their honourability...

Tooooo many smileys! Good war Gladz... - Pranky, shexy name caller ;-) What can I say? I like smiling :P

Thanks for the congratulations, and grats to Gladz for putting up such a good fight ;) Alot of times I barely survived by doing the GD ruin run :P And after beeing flamed ingame, I'm glad to see here that not all Gladz members are like that :D I hope you guys didn't get it too bad from the BK's flaming either, as I know there was plenty of them too, just as with gladz :P And again, great fight to both BK and Gladz ;) Today it's been written RS2 history, I don't believe any such great war has been seen since the Europe vs America wars in RSC :D Not alot of clans that would be able to put up the teams Gladz and BK put up today ;)

I'll make you one, using selftaken photos is ok with you right? I'll use some photos I have of the outer norwegian nature, sunset by the sea, to make you a beautiful sig ;)

I'll join in here, I onyl want to know what requirements are for size and such? And do you have to do all from scratch or can you use downloaded bg, because any1 can make a good sig with a downloaded bg... Is this one ok?