that's the problem with the attitude , most of them bot , before bot nuke day 50%+ botted stats , wc , str , mage , and so much more. on forums of final ownage elite and mayhem makers you could see it easy , they post 99 str or a 99 stat and the all say , nice botted. they give pures a bad reputation. still there are pures that do it all without botting and just train everything on 1 defence.