Slick_cat
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Posts posted by Slick_cat
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Slick_cat, you (and the poster you "quoted" on the other site) are forgetting that Jagex can simply actually make the payment process take longer/use more checks to verify CC info, thus taking out both these stolen CC issues and the members bots that go with them.
Instead, they choose to pwn their own game and use this as one reason why members should put up with Jagex's garbage.
Have you worked for a financial institution that issues and deals with credit cards?
I have and based upon that 6 years worth of experience I will say that your comment is meritless.
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Awesome social experiment!
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Excellent post Schmoozle, by the by, what WoW world are you on?
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First, count the number of autoer rants before the update.
Then, count the number of rants about the update.
Yep, Jagex went too far. Fortunately, they'll more than likely take a few steps backward (still keeping ahead of the RWT line) once their subscriber count dips below 1,000,000.
Comparing Autoer rants to Update Rants is a bad analogy
as for the subscriber count, last I heard its actually up by 2000.
Plus since the people that are leaving (PKers, Stakers and Merchants) are undesireables because their behaviour and subculture encourages
-exploit use
-scamming
-cheating
-illicit transfers of materials between mains and pures
-buying gold to train pures
-buying gold to get skill capes on their mains
-the bots in particular cost Jagex a lot of time because most are paid with stolen credit card info
you can bet that Jagex and the rest of us is not at all sad to see them gone.
Less bots, cheaters and scummy idiots to deal with means that Jagex will have more resources to produce interesting stuff for us.
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Alterac is the snow one :P and naw, those are honor grinds.
WSG I play out of a genuine desire to win. ;)
But that's offtopic...
>_>
Arathi Basin was the other one
I prefer AV to AB to WSG
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even if it did work:
Jagex can automatically flag such suspicious transactions for investigation and subsequent ban
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No thanks, I think i'll go play Warsong Gulch...
Goodbye then :P
WarSong Gulch is okay, Alterac and the snow one are much much better.
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(response to Truthscape convo about proposed changes to Trading Imbalance Cap - ppl suggested that 100k is enough to have persistent cheaters try it)
*brainstorms*
Level based caps won't work tho - I've seen bots/sweatshoppers with CBs of 126.
Bots with 99 fishing or 99 woodcutting, 92 RC, 95 mining, 95 crafting (that was from spinning bowstrings non stop)
Quests on the other hand have to be done by humans, so maybe a QP based allowance in trade discrepancy?
Say at 100 QPS, each QP adds 1k to the discrepancy of trading for that 15 minute period.
Trade 'volume' would go by the lower QP total
A
player 1 0 QPs
player 2 247 QPs
usual 3k limit
B
player 1 247 QPs
player 2 0 QPs
usual 3k limit
C
player 1 0 QPs
player 2 0 QPs
usual 3k limit
D
player 1 247 QPs
player 2 247 QPs
150k limit
E
player 1 101 QPs
player 2 247 QPs
4k limit
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Um dude...
you DO realize that you can 'gift' ppl full rune armour through the assist system?
But wouldn't the person need rune bars to be able to "receive" the gift?
nope, they'd need runite ore and coal and smelt the bars thru him
neither of which are that hard to get
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We get it. Bots are gone. We already knew that. The question is whether it was worth it.
My one goal in this game was to become a runite miner and smith so that I could give the good-hearted players in this game free armor with which to defend themselves from those in this game who do their best to damage or destroy their experience. My goal of being a rune smith shall shortly be meaningless; it becomes a quest after a pointless 99, which serves only as a testament to the time I wasted in this game instead of something with which I could show people generosity and goodwill that countless others in this game have not shown me. That option is gone, and so is my primary reason for playing any part of the grinding aspect of this game.
Um dude...
you DO realize that you can 'gift' ppl full rune armour through the assist system?
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+cross-posted from my LJ comm about RS to TruthsScape, TipIt, Zybez, HeartUnit & Official forums+
Current Jagex Model
initial price set by Jagex's 'research'
range +/-5%
1 click is +/- 5% in one direction
that's it that's all
recalculation daily
Qeltar's Detailed Criticisms with what's wrong with it
http://www.truthscape.com/html/ts_TheTruth...toSavethePa.htm
My Initial Suggestion
initial price set by Jagex's GE pricing mechanism
range +/-7.5%
1 click is +/- 2.5% in one direction
you can set it to automatically float with the market rate; don't have to cancel offer (losing place in line) to reprice
recalculation daily
loot-share has option to tele directly to GE, non-cancelleable sale, funds split equally by everyone that was eligible for the shared drop, item liquidated for cash if not sold in 7 days & everyone gets their share at that point
Bell-Curvish Suggestion
initial price set by Jagex's GE pricing mechanism
range +/-7.5%
1 click is +/- 2.5% in one direction
you can set it to automatically float with the market rate; don't have to cancel offer (losing place in line) to reprice
loot-share has option to tele directly to GE, non-cancelleable sale, funds split equally by everyone that was eligible for the shared drop, item liquidated for cash if not sold in 7 days & everyone gets their share at that point
you can leave the price to 'stick' where it is as well
sales at any price in that range have weighting of 1 per titem
offers are any offer that stays up for 7 days or more
offers outside the price range but within +/- 10 % have a weighting of 0.5 per item
offers outside the previous range but within +/- 15% have a weighting of 0.25 per item
offers outside the previous range but withing +/-25% have a weighting of 0.1 item
offers outside the previous range but withing +/-100% have a weighting of 0.01 item
Pure Essence Example
88 coins
83-93 range
(data pulled from GE 2:45 am Dec 12 2007)
Percentage - Figure - Number Range - Range Weighting per item 7.5% 6.6 81.4-94.6 1.0 10.0% 8.8 79.2-96.8 0.5 15.0% 13.2 74.8-101.2 0.25 25.0% 22.0 66.0-110.0 0.10 100.0% 88.0 0.0-176.0 0.01 under bids 100k p ess @ 1.0 @ 0.01 = 1000 100k p ess @ 50 @ 0.01 = 50000 10k p ess @ 66 @ 0.10 = 66000 10k p ess @ 70 @ 0.10 = 70000 8k p ess @ 75 @ 0.25 = 150000 7.5k p ess @ 78 @ 0.25 = 146250 6k p ess @ 80 @ 0.5 = 240000 under bid votes 723250 sales 10k p ess @ 81 @ 1.0 = 810000 5k p ess @ 82 @ 1.0 = 410000 4k p ess @ 88 @ 1.0 = 352000 5k p ess @ 93 @ 1.0 = 465000 sales (status quo) votes = 2037000 over bids 8k p ess @ 95 @ 0.5 = 380000 10k p ess @ 100 @ 0.25 = 250000 20k p ess @ 110 @ 0.10 = 222000 100k p ess @ 176 @ 0.01 = 176000 over bid votes = 1028000 total votes = 3788250 under bid share = 0.1909 sale share = 0.5377 over bid share = 0.2713 ==================================== total = 0.9999
Basically what Jagex's NEW GE number crunching algorithms would do is it would count the votes and see which way the trend was going.
Note that I purposefully didn't have many actual sales and also had large racketeer offers at either end trying to budge the prices.
Common items like p ess, runes and ores should also have a 30 day historical as part of the voting.
So each new day counts the votes from past 29 days as well - this would help stabilize price trends.
Luxury items like barrows, whips and godswords should have a 60 day historical as part of the voting.
So each new day counts votes from past 59 days as well.
Rare items like party hats, santas and halloween masks should have a 120 historical as part of the voting.
So each new day counts votes from past 119 days.
New items Jagex plugs in a ball park figure and 'copies' it backwards into the algorithm for 29, 59 or 119 days depending on its class. As time goes by, actual market behaviour (ie voting from sales and offers) replaces the data, day by day
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37.75% means that the PKer has a 37.75% chance of seeing each item that is dropped upon death of the Victim.
Regardless of the item's value? Either way, i liked this idea. =D>
Though,for the record, as some1 who dont pk, this part of the update didn't realy ruin my day :wink:
Sure, why not - if you're going to take a party hat into the wilderness, I'm sure that Jagex wouldn't mind you risking it disappearing completely from the game.
Then again they might secretly set the 'die rolls' such that you can take rares into the wildy but dying with them always removes the item from the game.
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Nice & creative ideas there especielly no .6 (QP and the pking system).
Unfortunately, it still can be abused for RWT.
Victim = seller with no QP but with
PKer = buyer with 50 QP
whats not clear is what, for example 37.75% mean.
37.75% of the number of items or 37.75% of the items value ?
In addition to your restriction (cash can't be looted) i would also add this one:
no noted items will be allowed in the wildy.
this will prevent any way to substitute cash for high-value items.
37.75% means that the PKer has a 37.75% chance of seeing each item that is dropped upon death of the Victim.
Good point I forgot to add that in in the TipIt version of this thread, ty
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I'm actually liking this update, will flush all the stupid morons out of the game, then maybe Jagex will change it back :-$
Flush is the right word alright!
the 1337 chaos runes icons is neat
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I'm CB 118
7 revenant imp
22 revenant goblin
105 revenant ork
nothing
nothing
200ish coins
600 coins
126 revenant knight
wearing neitznot, black dragonhide, dds + antidragon fire shield
half super set (still had about half effect left when he showed up), half prayer, full hp and 10 sharks - he owned me
Notes
their TB can be cancelled by logging out
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Lol you guy's crack me up,All you can do on this game now is get your account up to 99 and get your capes.
After you get up to 99 what is the point of going any further,Jagex has ruined the game for the honest players because of some people that was making money on the side.
All that means is that Mr. Gower got mad because he couldn't bilk members out of another few million dollars a month.
You are talking poor Jagex losing money,give me a break.
Wow... snotty kids these days... you've obviously never had to balance budget, much less run a successful, legitimate business.
With intelligence like that, its a wonder that you manage to tie your shoelaces in the morning.
Erm... you do wear shoes with laces, right? as opposed to those velcro straps? :P
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Who do you think BUYS most of that gold - the gold farmers wouldn't be here if scummy players weren't so busy buying gold to get gear and train their bloody pures, or too lazy to skill, buying resources en masse to get shiney skill capes for their mains.
Never mind that you blokes created an atmosphere of dishonesty to begin with by shuffling resources and loot back and forth between mains and pure accounts.
Never mind that PKing as it was on members (I've heard claims that f2p was different) was purely about getting the jump on someone.
Skilling (and Questing) creates/collects/transforms resources and thus money into the game.
Staking and PKing merely takes it away from someone else, or imports it from gold farmers.
Staking - in particular was gambling for kids, perhaps you might not know this but there is a correlation with gambling, obsession, addiction, bad decisions and organized crime (RWT IS organized crime, read up on articles about 'gold farmers', most of the members bots were paid for with stolen credit card numbers - and they end up costing Jagex a lot of money).
PKing was a lesser form of gambling. Honestly, I'm surprised that Jagex didn't get taken to task by any of the governments where its servers and or clients reside for allowing gambling in the covert forms of staking and PKing to exist.
0.) Merchants, PKers and Stakers create a climate of rulebreaking by constant covert transfers between Main and Pure accounts (this is something that most of them don't have the balls to admit they are pissed off about because the trading restrictions rightfully shut it off)
1.) Merchants provide cover for bot-pimps and their mules (ie your lvl 3 middlemen) to sell their wares
2.) Lazy kids training pures provide the need for gold to train and outfit those pures
3.) Lazy kids (PKers and Stakers) wanting the glory of a skill cape buy gold to quickly get those resources - THIS drives up the prices
4.) Hello hordes of bots, complete with sweatshoppers to do quests for those bots
5.) most important resources are on members, so bot-pimps use stolen credit card info to pay for them
6.) Jagex loses out big time financially
PKers and Stakers might think that they are the centre of the RS universe, but guess what? the game will go on with you. Collectively, your greed and cupidity almost ruined the game permanently. The rest of us aren't that sad to see you go.
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poon - is slang for female genitalia, if you're dumb enough to use an offensive username, you should be grateful that they're allowing you a partial do-over
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+1
I heartily congratulate you on being a voice of reason amongst a sea of panic and whining.
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Jagex needs to add a rune essence mine to Kingdoms of Miscellania, Etcetria and Underfood - Quest Lock it to a quest behind Royal Trouble.
Until then, do what I do:
1.) hoard it
2.) buy whenever you see someone selling
3.) befriend new members and get them to mine 1k p ess for you for a fair price (if you give them a good price, they're more likely to keep mining for you)
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8.) Mentionned by many people: LootShare option immediately upon getting a rare drop from a Boss Monster: the person that gets it Teles it directly to GE, everyone that had access to that drop gets equal share, can't be cancelled once on GE, after 7 days if not bought by a player it gets 'cashed out' - item disappears and everyone gets their cash
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copied from within the jumble of conversation at Zybez
From here
so that it doesn't get lost.
Actually, their real priority is staying in business, which they can't if RWT continues.
They've said that they've found that most bots on members* are paid with stolen credit card numbers.
What this means and I am speaking as someone who has worked for the credit card division of a major North American financial institution is this:
Note that Jagex gets very little advertising revenue from members
Jagex gets 'paid' $7.30 CDN by a fraudster for 1 months' worth of members
Jagex thinks it has the money and allocates it accordingly
Actual owner of the credit card notices the problem OR their credit card company does
Credit card company chargesback the $7.30 CDN to Jagex
by credit card regulations, Jagex ends up having to file paperwork to process the charge back on their end (and Jagex has to pay billing employees to get this done) - lets be generous and call it $0.10
certain credit card companies might slap a fine upon Jagex for allowing the fraudulent charge to go through
also - it costs money to be able to process credit card transactions in the first place - usually the card issuer takes a 2-3% cut, so call it $0.146
Pssst - remember that money that Jagex allocated when they thought that they had it? Turns out its not there anymore - lets say that this puts them into overdraft or they're forced to borrow thru a similar financial vehicle - let's assume that the interest rate is 5% per year (x 1.05).
7.30 x 1.05 = 7.665 (non compound interest) = $0.365 cents of interest for 365 days or 12 months
divide by 12 = $0.03 of interest
So
Instead of earning $7.30 CDN
they lost the earnings
$7.30 CDN chargebacked
$0.10 CDN wasted on paperwork
$0.146 CDN paid to credit card handling company/bank (which doesn't get refunded)
$0.03 CDN potential interest from lack of funds from loss of revenue.
call it $0.28 CDN per fraud acct per month
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From Jagex's frontpage "There are currently 137581 people playing!" at this moment
Jagex says that 1/6 are members
so divide by 6 = 22930 are probably members
of those lets be generous and assume that only 25% are bots*
so call it 5732 bots that will cost Jagex $1605.11 CDN
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The actual member base is 6 million of which 1 million is members (also quoting Jagex, and 25% bots is my estimate).
call it 250k bots x 0.28 = $70K CDN lost instead of $1.825M canadian earned, this appears in their books as "-$1.895M CDN" and it really hurts their bottom line
Perhaps now those of you that have a modicum of intelligence can see why this can't go on.
Note that this doesn't factor in how much they have to pay their anti-RWT people.
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Hey kids! Remember the USA's war on terror? Gosh, who doesn't.
Want a hint as to what it means for the banking industry? (and by extension the credit card industry and from there Jagex?)
Yup, tighter money controls - especially against money-laundering operations.
Gee, you kids want to guess what RWT trading qualifies as? Bingo! there's a reason why the Communist People's Republic of China is cracking down on gold-farming. Have a cookie!
Want to guess who gets crap from US + UK + other governments for 'allowing' money to flow to illicit operations? Bingo! Jagex...
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Those of you that are still with me and that managed to put 2 + 2 together and came out with 4, congratulations, now you know why RWT has to go.
Those of you still whining and unable to rub two neurons together should possibly flush your heads down a toilet.
Those of you that were/are actually part of the problem (buying gold for realworld cash from bot-pimps or buying items in-game from bot-pimp/merchants**) - tell your parents to put a bit of chlorine in your gene pool.
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*On members, I've seen bots/sweatshoppers at: nature altar, chaos altar, law altar, cosmic altar, mining ess via Varrock, converting planks at lumbermill, collecting snape grass on waterbirth, EVERY location of green dragons, ranging blue dragons at Taverly and Ogre Enclave, woodcutting in varrock, rimmington, draynor, gnome stronghold, seers, catherby, picking flax, mining everything up to and including runite, killing flesh crawlers at stronghold of security, fishing at draynor, karamja, catherby and fishing guild - if I've missed any, let me know - bottom line there are far more bots on members than most people realize
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*There's at least 1 bot per 2 players on members, if it isn't 1:1, f2p is 6 bots per 4 kids.
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Currently arguing about this with numerous whiney ppl over at Zybez's Clan Discussion Area :)
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Good thinking there about the QP. But many pkers dont do quests they don't need to (some need to do desert treasure for ancients and monkey madness/lost city for dragon weapons) And how about f2p? 39 QP is the max. So what would happen then :-k
Members that don't do quests = less chance of getting loot, more chance of getting looted (which is as it should be)
Free-to-Play: not likely to get loot, not likely to protect loot = incentive to upgrade to Members (whish is something that Jagex would prefer)
"Its the End of RuneScape as we know it! and I feel Fine!"
in General Discussion
Posted
http://support.worldpay.com/products_se ... guarantee/
have you actually read this?
do you understand enough bureaucratese and legalese to know what it means?
didn't think so
here's the skinny:
Jagex would have to pay extra cut above and beyond what they would already pay to WorldPay for creditcard transactions
assuming that they were eligible to get it in the first place
so even if they could get it, it might not make financial sense for them to do so even with the bots - why? because they'd have to pay 1-2% extra on all transactions, even honest ones - this would nickel and dime them to death
basically this service is a nice looking extra one that isn't that useful to Jagex
If you've ever heard of 'balance protection insurance' for your credit card, this is comparable - its a service that sounds good but only really benefits the issuer of the BPI rather than the customer (you) or the merchant (Jagex)
you wouldn't know it but there are conditions for how fraud transactions are treated
Jagex's monthly subscription is small enough that it would usually get written off and swallowed by the credit card processor - except where incidences of fraud are high - RS being a case, the cost still gets passed on to Jagex, and in all likeliehood this is still cheaper (but not optimal) than this 'Guarantee'
WoW's monthly subscription gets is large enough, particularly when batched into 3 and 6 month periods that the financial institutions really will hunt down the perpetrators for the money and possibly involve law enforcement agencies.
Good try, I commend you on your google-fu, but the point still stands.