Slick_cat

http://support.worldpay.com/products_se ... guarantee/ have you actually read this? do you understand enough bureaucratese and legalese to know what it means? didn't think so here's the skinny: Jagex would have to pay extra cut above and beyond what they would already pay to WorldPay for creditcard transactions assuming that they were eligible to get it in the first place so even if they could get it, it might not make financial sense for them to do so even with the bots - why? because they'd have to pay 1-2% extra on all transactions, even honest ones - this would nickel and dime them to death basically this service is a nice looking extra one that isn't that useful to Jagex If you've ever heard of 'balance protection insurance' for your credit card, this is comparable - its a service that sounds good but only really benefits the issuer of the BPI rather than the customer (you) or the merchant (Jagex) you wouldn't know it but there are conditions for how fraud transactions are treated Jagex's monthly subscription is small enough that it would usually get written off and swallowed by the credit card processor - except where incidences of fraud are high - RS being a case, the cost still gets passed on to Jagex, and in all likeliehood this is still cheaper (but not optimal) than this 'Guarantee' WoW's monthly subscription gets is large enough, particularly when batched into 3 and 6 month periods that the financial institutions really will hunt down the perpetrators for the money and possibly involve law enforcement agencies. Good try, I commend you on your google-fu, but the point still stands.

Have you worked for a financial institution that issues and deals with credit cards? I have and based upon that 6 years worth of experience I will say that your comment is meritless.

Awesome social experiment!

Excellent post Schmoozle, by the by, what WoW world are you on?

Comparing Autoer rants to Update Rants is a bad analogy as for the subscriber count, last I heard its actually up by 2000. Plus since the people that are leaving (PKers, Stakers and Merchants) are undesireables because their behaviour and subculture encourages -exploit use -scamming -cheating -illicit transfers of materials between mains and pures -buying gold to train pures -buying gold to get skill capes on their mains -the bots in particular cost Jagex a lot of time because most are paid with stolen credit card info you can bet that Jagex and the rest of us is not at all sad to see them gone. Less bots, cheaters and scummy idiots to deal with means that Jagex will have more resources to produce interesting stuff for us.

Arathi Basin was the other one I prefer AV to AB to WSG

even if it did work: Jagex can automatically flag such suspicious transactions for investigation and subsequent ban

Goodbye then :P WarSong Gulch is okay, Alterac and the snow one are much much better.

(response to Truthscape convo about proposed changes to Trading Imbalance Cap - ppl suggested that 100k is enough to have persistent cheaters try it) *brainstorms* Level based caps won't work tho - I've seen bots/sweatshoppers with CBs of 126. Bots with 99 fishing or 99 woodcutting, 92 RC, 95 mining, 95 crafting (that was from spinning bowstrings non stop) Quests on the other hand have to be done by humans, so maybe a QP based allowance in trade discrepancy? Say at 100 QPS, each QP adds 1k to the discrepancy of trading for that 15 minute period. Trade 'volume' would go by the lower QP total A player 1 0 QPs player 2 247 QPs usual 3k limit B player 1 247 QPs player 2 0 QPs usual 3k limit C player 1 0 QPs player 2 0 QPs usual 3k limit D player 1 247 QPs player 2 247 QPs 150k limit E player 1 101 QPs player 2 247 QPs 4k limit

But wouldn't the person need rune bars to be able to "receive" the gift? nope, they'd need runite ore and coal and smelt the bars thru him neither of which are that hard to get

Um dude... you DO realize that you can 'gift' ppl full rune armour through the assist system?

+cross-posted from my LJ comm about RS to TruthsScape, TipIt, Zybez, HeartUnit & Official forums+ Current Jagex Model initial price set by Jagex's 'research' range +/-5% 1 click is +/- 5% in one direction that's it that's all recalculation daily Qeltar's Detailed Criticisms with what's wrong with it http://www.truthscape.com/html/ts_TheTruth...toSavethePa.htm My Initial Suggestion initial price set by Jagex's GE pricing mechanism range +/-7.5% 1 click is +/- 2.5% in one direction you can set it to automatically float with the market rate; don't have to cancel offer (losing place in line) to reprice recalculation daily loot-share has option to tele directly to GE, non-cancelleable sale, funds split equally by everyone that was eligible for the shared drop, item liquidated for cash if not sold in 7 days & everyone gets their share at that point Bell-Curvish Suggestion initial price set by Jagex's GE pricing mechanism range +/-7.5% 1 click is +/- 2.5% in one direction you can set it to automatically float with the market rate; don't have to cancel offer (losing place in line) to reprice loot-share has option to tele directly to GE, non-cancelleable sale, funds split equally by everyone that was eligible for the shared drop, item liquidated for cash if not sold in 7 days & everyone gets their share at that point you can leave the price to 'stick' where it is as well sales at any price in that range have weighting of 1 per titem offers are any offer that stays up for 7 days or more offers outside the price range but within +/- 10 % have a weighting of 0.5 per item offers outside the previous range but within +/- 15% have a weighting of 0.25 per item offers outside the previous range but withing +/-25% have a weighting of 0.1 item offers outside the previous range but withing +/-100% have a weighting of 0.01 item Pure Essence Example 88 coins 83-93 range (data pulled from GE 2:45 am Dec 12 2007) Percentage - Figure - Number Range - Range Weighting per item 7.5% 6.6 81.4-94.6 1.0 10.0% 8.8 79.2-96.8 0.5 15.0% 13.2 74.8-101.2 0.25 25.0% 22.0 66.0-110.0 0.10 100.0% 88.0 0.0-176.0 0.01 under bids 100k p ess @ 1.0 @ 0.01 = 1000 100k p ess @ 50 @ 0.01 = 50000 10k p ess @ 66 @ 0.10 = 66000 10k p ess @ 70 @ 0.10 = 70000 8k p ess @ 75 @ 0.25 = 150000 7.5k p ess @ 78 @ 0.25 = 146250 6k p ess @ 80 @ 0.5 = 240000 under bid votes 723250 sales 10k p ess @ 81 @ 1.0 = 810000 5k p ess @ 82 @ 1.0 = 410000 4k p ess @ 88 @ 1.0 = 352000 5k p ess @ 93 @ 1.0 = 465000 sales (status quo) votes = 2037000 over bids 8k p ess @ 95 @ 0.5 = 380000 10k p ess @ 100 @ 0.25 = 250000 20k p ess @ 110 @ 0.10 = 222000 100k p ess @ 176 @ 0.01 = 176000 over bid votes = 1028000 total votes = 3788250 under bid share = 0.1909 sale share = 0.5377 over bid share = 0.2713 ==================================== total = 0.9999 Basically what Jagex's NEW GE number crunching algorithms would do is it would count the votes and see which way the trend was going. Note that I purposefully didn't have many actual sales and also had large racketeer offers at either end trying to budge the prices. Common items like p ess, runes and ores should also have a 30 day historical as part of the voting. So each new day counts the votes from past 29 days as well - this would help stabilize price trends. Luxury items like barrows, whips and godswords should have a 60 day historical as part of the voting. So each new day counts votes from past 59 days as well. Rare items like party hats, santas and halloween masks should have a 120 historical as part of the voting. So each new day counts votes from past 119 days. New items Jagex plugs in a ball park figure and 'copies' it backwards into the algorithm for 29, 59 or 119 days depending on its class. As time goes by, actual market behaviour (ie voting from sales and offers) replaces the data, day by day

Regardless of the item's value? Either way, i liked this idea. =D> Though,for the record, as some1 who dont pk, this part of the update didn't realy ruin my day :wink: Sure, why not - if you're going to take a party hat into the wilderness, I'm sure that Jagex wouldn't mind you risking it disappearing completely from the game. Then again they might secretly set the 'die rolls' such that you can take rares into the wildy but dying with them always removes the item from the game.

37.75% means that the PKer has a 37.75% chance of seeing each item that is dropped upon death of the Victim. Good point I forgot to add that in in the TipIt version of this thread, ty

Flush is the right word alright! the 1337 chaos runes icons is neat

I'm CB 118 7 revenant imp 22 revenant goblin 105 revenant ork nothing nothing 200ish coins 600 coins 126 revenant knight wearing neitznot, black dragonhide, dds + antidragon fire shield half super set (still had about half effect left when he showed up), half prayer, full hp and 10 sharks - he owned me Notes their TB can be cancelled by logging out http://community.livejournal.com/runesca_diction/19237.html

Wow... snotty kids these days... you've obviously never had to balance budget, much less run a successful, legitimate business. With intelligence like that, its a wonder that you manage to tie your shoelaces in the morning. Erm... you do wear shoes with laces, right? as opposed to those velcro straps? :P

Who do you think BUYS most of that gold - the gold farmers wouldn't be here if scummy players weren't so busy buying gold to get gear and train their bloody pures, or too lazy to skill, buying resources en masse to get shiney skill capes for their mains. Never mind that you blokes created an atmosphere of dishonesty to begin with by shuffling resources and loot back and forth between mains and pure accounts. Never mind that PKing as it was on members (I've heard claims that f2p was different) was purely about getting the jump on someone. Skilling (and Questing) creates/collects/transforms resources and thus money into the game. Staking and PKing merely takes it away from someone else, or imports it from gold farmers. Staking - in particular was gambling for kids, perhaps you might not know this but there is a correlation with gambling, obsession, addiction, bad decisions and organized crime (RWT IS organized crime, read up on articles about 'gold farmers', most of the members bots were paid for with stolen credit card numbers - and they end up costing Jagex a lot of money). PKing was a lesser form of gambling. Honestly, I'm surprised that Jagex didn't get taken to task by any of the governments where its servers and or clients reside for allowing gambling in the covert forms of staking and PKing to exist. 0.) Merchants, PKers and Stakers create a climate of rulebreaking by constant covert transfers between Main and Pure accounts (this is something that most of them don't have the balls to admit they are pissed off about because the trading restrictions rightfully shut it off) 1.) Merchants provide cover for bot-pimps and their mules (ie your lvl 3 middlemen) to sell their wares 2.) Lazy kids training pures provide the need for gold to train and outfit those pures 3.) Lazy kids (PKers and Stakers) wanting the glory of a skill cape buy gold to quickly get those resources - THIS drives up the prices 4.) Hello hordes of bots, complete with sweatshoppers to do quests for those bots 5.) most important resources are on members, so bot-pimps use stolen credit card info to pay for them 6.) Jagex loses out big time financially PKers and Stakers might think that they are the centre of the RS universe, but guess what? the game will go on with you. Collectively, your greed and cupidity almost ruined the game permanently. The rest of us aren't that sad to see you go.

poon - is slang for female genitalia, if you're dumb enough to use an offensive username, you should be grateful that they're allowing you a partial do-over

+1 I heartily congratulate you on being a voice of reason amongst a sea of panic and whining.

Jagex needs to add a rune essence mine to Kingdoms of Miscellania, Etcetria and Underfood - Quest Lock it to a quest behind Royal Trouble. Until then, do what I do: 1.) hoard it 2.) buy whenever you see someone selling 3.) befriend new members and get them to mine 1k p ess for you for a fair price (if you give them a good price, they're more likely to keep mining for you)

8.) Mentionned by many people: LootShare option immediately upon getting a rare drop from a Boss Monster: the person that gets it Teles it directly to GE, everyone that had access to that drop gets equal share, can't be cancelled once on GE, after 7 days if not bought by a player it gets 'cashed out' - item disappears and everyone gets their cash

copied from within the jumble of conversation at Zybez From here so that it doesn't get lost. Actually, their real priority is staying in business, which they can't if RWT continues. They've said that they've found that most bots on members* are paid with stolen credit card numbers. What this means and I am speaking as someone who has worked for the credit card division of a major North American financial institution is this: Note that Jagex gets very little advertising revenue from members Jagex gets 'paid' $7.30 CDN by a fraudster for 1 months' worth of members Jagex thinks it has the money and allocates it accordingly Actual owner of the credit card notices the problem OR their credit card company does Credit card company chargesback the $7.30 CDN to Jagex by credit card regulations, Jagex ends up having to file paperwork to process the charge back on their end (and Jagex has to pay billing employees to get this done) - lets be generous and call it $0.10 certain credit card companies might slap a fine upon Jagex for allowing the fraudulent charge to go through also - it costs money to be able to process credit card transactions in the first place - usually the card issuer takes a 2-3% cut, so call it $0.146 Pssst - remember that money that Jagex allocated when they thought that they had it? Turns out its not there anymore - lets say that this puts them into overdraft or they're forced to borrow thru a similar financial vehicle - let's assume that the interest rate is 5% per year (x 1.05). 7.30 x 1.05 = 7.665 (non compound interest) = $0.365 cents of interest for 365 days or 12 months divide by 12 = $0.03 of interest So Instead of earning $7.30 CDN they lost the earnings $7.30 CDN chargebacked $0.10 CDN wasted on paperwork $0.146 CDN paid to credit card handling company/bank (which doesn't get refunded) $0.03 CDN potential interest from lack of funds from loss of revenue. call it $0.28 CDN per fraud acct per month ------ From Jagex's frontpage "There are currently 137581 people playing!" at this moment Jagex says that 1/6 are members so divide by 6 = 22930 are probably members of those lets be generous and assume that only 25% are bots* so call it 5732 bots that will cost Jagex $1605.11 CDN ------ The actual member base is 6 million of which 1 million is members (also quoting Jagex, and 25% bots is my estimate). call it 250k bots x 0.28 = $70K CDN lost instead of $1.825M canadian earned, this appears in their books as "-$1.895M CDN" and it really hurts their bottom line Perhaps now those of you that have a modicum of intelligence can see why this can't go on. Note that this doesn't factor in how much they have to pay their anti-RWT people. ------ Hey kids! Remember the USA's war on terror? Gosh, who doesn't. Want a hint as to what it means for the banking industry? (and by extension the credit card industry and from there Jagex?) Yup, tighter money controls - especially against money-laundering operations. Gee, you kids want to guess what RWT trading qualifies as? Bingo! there's a reason why the Communist People's Republic of China is cracking down on gold-farming. Have a cookie! Want to guess who gets crap from US + UK + other governments for 'allowing' money to flow to illicit operations? Bingo! Jagex... ------ Those of you that are still with me and that managed to put 2 + 2 together and came out with 4, congratulations, now you know why RWT has to go. Those of you still whining and unable to rub two neurons together should possibly flush your heads down a toilet. Those of you that were/are actually part of the problem (buying gold for realworld cash from bot-pimps or buying items in-game from bot-pimp/merchants**) - tell your parents to put a bit of chlorine in your gene pool. ======================== *On members, I've seen bots/sweatshoppers at: nature altar, chaos altar, law altar, cosmic altar, mining ess via Varrock, converting planks at lumbermill, collecting snape grass on waterbirth, EVERY location of green dragons, ranging blue dragons at Taverly and Ogre Enclave, woodcutting in varrock, rimmington, draynor, gnome stronghold, seers, catherby, picking flax, mining everything up to and including runite, killing flesh crawlers at stronghold of security, fishing at draynor, karamja, catherby and fishing guild - if I've missed any, let me know - bottom line there are far more bots on members than most people realize ================== *There's at least 1 bot per 2 players on members, if it isn't 1:1, f2p is 6 bots per 4 kids.

Currently arguing about this with numerous whiney ppl over at Zybez's Clan Discussion Area :) http://www.zybez.net/community/index.ph ... try8560849

Members that don't do quests = less chance of getting loot, more chance of getting looted (which is as it should be) Free-to-Play: not likely to get loot, not likely to protect loot = incentive to upgrade to Members (whish is something that Jagex would prefer)