Benthereaper

Actually they were flaming over how they were still in the finals after the fight lol

Most fights end with 50-60% of one sides people remaining, but in this case it was blatantly a lot closer because of the DCs. RK were actually ahead by 2 at the 16-14 stage and in a 20v20, that basically means victory however RK suffered a DC letting BT come back to even it out since you killed your target at the same time. So actually 8 people is very little especially from a big fight like this lol. Had BT won with maybe 25-30 remaining, I would have said the DCs would have made no difference but since you ended with only 8, they obviously did. So on from that, the DCs affected the fight by a clear mile. Considering that the rules had been agreed upon by all parties, agreeing on 81, and then BT haggled (so basically breaking being late for disqualification and not fighting in the world designated) resulted in the DCs being one of the BIG reasons RK lost, without them, I would have bet that RK would have won this. In my honest opinion, do a RM. Had W134 been originally agreed upon, then fine, gratz BT. But it wasn't, you refused to war in 81 which you agreed on in the rules (so your fault for accepting) and when you lag because your officials didn't check the world first you expect the world to revolve around you and get the world changed? Your clan broke the world rule and the lateness rule - considering yourselves lucky you weren't DQd. Ever heard of people being out of food because they've been sniped out/piled earlier in the fight? Lol. Ever heard of being on time and fighting agreed upon rules? Lol. We were on time, we even went to world 81. That world was bad so we hopped away asking for a better world. The fight didn't start on time, you hopped away therefore you delaying the start of the war and you still didn't fight on the agreed war world. I can easily construe that as them delaying the fight and not starting the fight on time because they were not willing to compromise and find a better world. For probably the 50th time on this thread, they had NO reason not to hop other than being stubborn and wanting to put us at a disadvantage. And by hopping over, you put them at a disadvantage - the DCs clearly showed that. Apart from being stubborn, by RK staying in world 81 to fight they were actually fighting by rules that were set. We didn't choose the world to hop to, we had to get an official, if they hadn't been stubborn we could have found a world that worked for both of us instead of just having one chosen for us. Their disadvantage was as much a result of their stubbornness as ours. I've already said earlier on this thread, rules are designed to enforce fairness, like laws, they should change as circumstances do, the world being terrible for one side seems like a circumstance in which a change is reasonable, particularly when the other side has no reason to oppose a change, other than stubbornness.

Most fights end with 50-60% of one sides people remaining, but in this case it was blatantly a lot closer because of the DCs. RK were actually ahead by 2 at the 16-14 stage and in a 20v20, that basically means victory however RK suffered a DC letting BT come back to even it out since you killed your target at the same time. So actually 8 people is very little especially from a big fight like this lol. Had BT won with maybe 25-30 remaining, I would have said the DCs would have made no difference but since you ended with only 8, they obviously did. So on from that, the DCs affected the fight by a clear mile. Considering that the rules had been agreed upon by all parties, agreeing on 81, and then BT haggled (so basically breaking being late for disqualification and not fighting in the world designated) resulted in the DCs being one of the BIG reasons RK lost, without them, I would have bet that RK would have won this. In my honest opinion, do a RM. Had W134 been originally agreed upon, then fine, gratz BT. But it wasn't, you refused to war in 81 which you agreed on in the rules (so your fault for accepting) and when you lag because your officials didn't check the world first you expect the world to revolve around you and get the world changed? Your clan broke the world rule and the lateness rule - considering yourselves lucky you weren't DQd. Ever heard of people being out of food because they've been sniped out/piled earlier in the fight? Lol. Ever heard of being on time and fighting agreed upon rules? Lol. We were on time, we even went to world 81. That world was bad so we hopped away asking for a better world. The fight didn't start on time, you hopped away therefore you delaying the start of the war and you still didn't fight on the agreed war world. I can easily construe that as them delaying the fight and not starting the fight on time because they were not willing to compromise and find a better world. For probably the 50th time on this thread, they had NO reason not to hop other than being stubborn and wanting to put us at a disadvantage.

Most fights end with 50-60% of one sides people remaining, but in this case it was blatantly a lot closer because of the DCs. RK were actually ahead by 2 at the 16-14 stage and in a 20v20, that basically means victory however RK suffered a DC letting BT come back to even it out since you killed your target at the same time. So actually 8 people is very little especially from a big fight like this lol. Had BT won with maybe 25-30 remaining, I would have said the DCs would have made no difference but since you ended with only 8, they obviously did. So on from that, the DCs affected the fight by a clear mile. Considering that the rules had been agreed upon by all parties, agreeing on 81, and then BT haggled (so basically breaking being late for disqualification and not fighting in the world designated) resulted in the DCs being one of the BIG reasons RK lost, without them, I would have bet that RK would have won this. In my honest opinion, do a RM. Had W134 been originally agreed upon, then fine, gratz BT. But it wasn't, you refused to war in 81 which you agreed on in the rules (so your fault for accepting) and when you lag because your officials didn't check the world first you expect the world to revolve around you and get the world changed? Your clan broke the world rule and the lateness rule - considering yourselves lucky you weren't DQd. Ever heard of people being out of food because they've been sniped out/piled earlier in the fight? Lol. Ever heard of being on time and fighting agreed upon rules? Lol. We were on time, we just didn't agree to fighting on a world that caused us to lag, seems reasonable enough to me, maybe you can come up with a reason for them being stubborn about the world since they can't. Frankly I've never even seen clans agreeing to the world days before the fight takes place lol.

Sounds like an excuse to me, you used your best team in the other semi-final judging by this picture (http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo289/MonkeyCIA/Picture218.png) and again, we ended with more against them than you did. Saying you didn't try in the semi-final round vs us now seems a little convenient seeing as it hasn't been mentioned before. The topic that teucrates mentioned isn't irrelevant, as it is an example of a clan being late (by over an hour) and tip.it allowing them to reschedule rather than Dq'ing them (for the record this is different from our case, Tr never showed up to fight us which is why it had to be rescheduled, we were present before this fight was agreed to start, we simply disagreed over the world) You can feel hard done by the world, but it was chosen by an impartial official, we are to blame for agreeing to a world before we had any oppurtunity to test it out, but as I mentioned before, you had no reason to be so inflexible. You could have entered a discussion and set up a world good for both of us (again, reiterating myself, despite the previous round, world 81 clearly wasn't good for us this time, otherwise we had no reason to request a switch), instead you decided to be stubborn (again.. the only viable reason for that would be just to spite us). Our decision not to use a laggy world and your stubbornness are the direct causes of the new world being chosen, you are as much to blame for the new world being chosen by an outsider as us and it's only through bad luck that you got the dc's rather than us. Honestly, give me a SINGLE reason not to compromise with our officials and hop other than "It was the rules", rules are to ensure fairness (they require reason, old laws are changed as situations change), it would have taken 5 minutes to find a new world that worked out for both of us (alternatively, you can come up with a reason why we would want you to hop if we weren't lagging, especially since we didn't get to choose what world we hopped to and therefore had no control over who it would be worse for). At the end of the day, you fought and lost, if you had walked away and refused the impartially chosen world maybe you could make an arguement that you had an issue with the rules being altered. Since you fought and decided to complain afterwards, it is apparent that you either want a cheap win or are bitter about the loss. As to any flaming, shrug it off, your a member of your own clan, you have the only valid opinion of it. If someone else tells me my clan sucks then I laugh at them, because at the end of the day they don't have a clue Believe it or not you are wrong, we had higher levels than that, but I'd cut some of the lower levels for the CE+SE fight and decided to let them fight since we were through to the final. Convenient like all of TT+BK lagging. OK. Ex-BK is not an impartial official. The reason for being inflexible was the rules were set, you inconvenienced us with a lie, not one of the American members was lagging on world 81. We aren't the cause of a new world being chosen as we were happy with the world that was agreed to. I would of been willing to compromise had there been reports of lagg from the American members we had, we asked in audio and cc and no-one person said they were lagging, rather than go along with your lagg story, we kept to the plan and stayed. Your motives are your motives, possibly stalling for a fall in leader. As I said I can take a loss, but the attitude of your members was one of the worst I've ever seen, no particular flame annoys me theyre just pixels on a screen, but the unprovoked attempts at it, are sour in gracious and tarnish mine and others opinions of what I thought were two respectable clans. "Good Fight" "Respect" aren't so hard to type are they? That's the picture from your ce + se fight, not the semi-final vs us, since that doesn't seem to be on any of the topics. Something is only "convenient" if it has the possibility of giving someone an advantage, us wanting a world switch due to lag gave us no advantage, the only reason you can come up with is "possibly stalling for a fall in leader" which isn't true, to quote you "believe it or not". If we were stalling we wouldn't have sought out an official to sort out the problem before you did, would we? We don't "inconvenience" people for no reason, whether your american members were lagging is irrelevant to whether ours were. You see the problem with your comments on the attitude is that members from your side came and told us how it was "3 minutes until victory", if people come and bait us about you trying to get a cheap win then you can expect some people to comment back (the situation was also exacerbated by a fight with Tr we had last week in pvp where they flamed us whilst we were significantly outnumbered then left as soon as we got up enough to match them). As for the impartiality of the official, being an ex-member means nothing, moderators are assumably chosen for being reasonable/sensible, questioning his impartiality is tantamount to questioning Tip.its choice in moderators. If you had a problem with the world chosen for us by the official or the offical themself, you should have brought it up before the fight, not afterwards. Complaining after the fact is indicative of poor sportsmanship after a loss. Still have no viable reason for why we would ask you to hop worlds if we weren't lagging or why you couldn't hop to a mutually suitable world, until you can provide that fault for the necessity of getting official adjudication is just as much yours for being stubborn and uncompromising in the face of changing circumstance. All your comments about flaming are pretty much worthless because you're right that "good fight" isn't hard to type, yet not a single Tr or Nbk member have done so on this topic, whereas the majority of TT/Bk posting have. All you've been doing is arguing over the loss and trying to question our reputation with no actual evidence other than a picture of one bk member saying "ur clan sucks". If you were really that concerned with flaming/baiting then you'd already have accepted that sometimes it happens in these situations and wouldn't be whining about it (which is a form of baiting in itself). Good fight Tr + Nbk, it was certainly a close one

Sounds like an excuse to me, you used your best team in the other semi-final judging by this picture (http://i384.photobucket.com/albums/oo289/MonkeyCIA/Picture218.png) and again, we ended with more against them than you did. Saying you didn't try in the semi-final round vs us now seems a little convenient seeing as it hasn't been mentioned before. The topic that teucrates mentioned isn't irrelevant, as it is an example of a clan being late (by over an hour) and tip.it allowing them to reschedule rather than Dq'ing them (for the record this is different from our case, Tr never showed up to fight us which is why it had to be rescheduled, we were present before this fight was agreed to start, we simply disagreed over the world) You can feel hard done by the world, but it was chosen by an impartial official, we are to blame for agreeing to a world before we had any oppurtunity to test it out, but as I mentioned before, you had no reason to be so inflexible. You could have entered a discussion and set up a world good for both of us (again, reiterating myself, despite the previous round, world 81 clearly wasn't good for us this time, otherwise we had no reason to request a switch), instead you decided to be stubborn (again.. the only viable reason for that would be just to spite us). Our decision not to use a laggy world and your stubbornness are the direct causes of the new world being chosen, you are as much to blame for the new world being chosen by an outsider as us and it's only through bad luck that you got the dc's rather than us. Honestly, give me a SINGLE reason not to compromise with our officials and hop other than "It was the rules", rules are to ensure fairness (they require reason, old laws are changed as situations change), it would have taken 5 minutes to find a new world that worked out for both of us (alternatively, you can come up with a reason why we would want you to hop if we weren't lagging, especially since we didn't get to choose what world we hopped to and therefore had no control over who it would be worse for). At the end of the day, you fought and lost, if you had walked away and refused the impartially chosen world maybe you could make an arguement that you had an issue with the rules being altered. Since you fought and decided to complain afterwards, it is apparent that you either want a cheap win or are bitter about the loss. As to any flaming, shrug it off, your a member of your own clan, you have the only valid opinion of it. If someone else tells me my clan sucks then I laugh at them, because at the end of the day they don't have a clue

The fuss over the worlds was made by your side, don't have a go at us because we stuck to the rules of the fight on what was a lag free world for all of us, and don't forget, it was your official who agreed upon it. You won by 9 people, and your world caused us DC's at the worst of moments. We can question your "superiority" as this was an extremely close fight where a single DC could have made the difference. And it did, the 2 we had at the end. The only real annoyance from our side is the DC's that caused our loss in such a close fight, and all the flaming that your side done both when we first logged into the world and then once the fight was over (as well as the closing staged in the jails). Please don't quote me unless you're going to come up with a worthwhile arguement, it obviously wasn't a "lag free world for all of us" since we requested a change, we had no other reason to do so (see lack of ulterior motive point from my original post). The "fuss" can't be made by just one side, your side obviously opposed a change of world for no particular reason (why would you stick to the original world if it was proving problematic for one side when you could easily have switched, unless you were trying to spite the opposition). It was extremely easy for you to be reasonable and switch worlds, but you wouldn't until we got tip.it staff involved, so please don't bring in that self-righteous arguement that we're at fault and you're blameless. Yes, we won this fight by 9 people, so it's possible we would have lost without your disconnects. Unfortunately that was not my point, we beat you already with 14 remaining in the last round and ended with more vs the other semi-finalist than you did. Now, to me, that seems like we performed better regardless of whether a lack of dcs might have led you to win this fight with a few people remaining, feel free to make a convincing arguement for why you performed better overall in the tournament (which is what i originally stated).

I can't believe there are such huge issues over the world, deciding beforehand was not intelligent as world lag varies wildly. Seems a bit unreasonable to force your opponent to stick to fighting in a laggy world, it's not like we had ulterior motives to purposefully take you to another world where you would lag out, the world wasn't chosen by us. Regardless of the world, we've won twice in a row, the first time in a world that none of you had problems with by your own admission in this topic. I don't think you can question that we had a superior performance in this tournament

What are you all basing this on? why would we reduce our own chances of winning to spite a clan we haven't had any interaction with at all in over a year. We performed poorly, it happens.