No_M0re
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Posts posted by No_M0re
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I seriously think Jagex should address why people bot, therefore making the game more intersting, instead of losing loads of revenues due to trying to come up with a way to stop them and then actually losing al the revenue from the botters.
More things a bit like dungeoneering pleeeease
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Don't bother wasting energy Jaffy. Bottom line is: they're not willing to pay for music if they can get away with not paying for it. This has nothing to do with morals, or whether something is technically theft or not. If these usually self-described "music lovers" want to drown in their own hypocrisy by stealing money that rightfully belongs to the bands who make the music, and the record companies who invest in those bands, then let them.
They probably won't change their ways until a stick comes along to threaten them, no matter how much you tear their arguments apart, but the unpoliced nature of the Internet makes this somewhat difficult.
You're right, but that's okay. ;)
It's giving me some amusement while I work on my thesis, and I don't mind playing with trolls at times. Must say I appreciate your wording though. :D
At above post.
Tl;dr version:
Proof pl0x?
Only saying "I am right" proves you're not, and if you need to know why it is theft, please refer to this post.
"They suck" is not an argument. --> if it were: "You suck, therefore I am right. End of discussion" ? ;)
Yes, taking something without paying for it is stealing. That so hard to comprehend? xD
Whatever man I could forever.
It's not stealing in any way shape or form.
Just because certain laws made up by random people say so doesn't make it so.
Tell me this, did they lsoe any money because of it? did they lose anything becasue of it?
Intelectual property means nothing to me and most people, it's too abstract. If you look at in in real terms I have never stolen from an artist, because they lost nothing because of it.
Oops, sorry for double post :ohnoes:
Don't worry about TL;Dr. I'll read everything you say :thumbup:
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Don't bother wasting energy Jaffy. Bottom line is: they're not willing to pay for music if they can get away with not paying for it. This has nothing to do with morals, or whether something is technically theft or not. If these usually self-described "music lovers" want to drown in their own hypocrisy by stealing money that rightfully belongs to the bands who make the music, and the record companies who invest in those bands, then let them.
They probably won't change their ways until a stick comes along to threaten them, no matter how much you tear their arguments apart, but the unpoliced nature of the Internet makes this somewhat difficult.
The difference between plagiarism and music piracy is simple: Plagiarism gets you kicked out of uni with no chance of earning a degree thereafter. Music piracy might get you a slap on the wrist from your ISP.
No no no.
Like I said my mate actually works in the music industry and another in a band. They don't care. I don't care. I still give around 600-800pounds to bands by going to gigs/festivals. As well as the dumb ammount of moeny I spend seeing DJs.
You might want to believe whatever you want, end of the day I've never owned more than 30 albums. That's THREE HUNDRED pounds. WTF?? For 30 albums. No. I simply can't afford that, I listen to at least 20 - 30 albums a lot in one month. That means if I buy it I can;t eat. As it is the music industry is outdated. They need to change and the sooner they realise the better.
Also yeah I couldn't give a crap if crappy singers that can't give a good live performance and lose millions on this. They suck, they throw out the same junk all the time.
Don't call me a "music lover" like that. Without knowing you I'm still fairly sure in saying I probably love it more than you. I literally listen to music or paly it all the time, every fri and sat I go clubbing. Everytime any decent DJ/Bands on somewhere near I'll go in the week.
Bottom line is, I wouldn't have listened to half the bands I do, therefore nor would my friends, therefore we'd have less reason to go to a festival if they were playing, therefoooore they lose money. Simples.
I give more to artists by pirating than I would if I didn't.
Oh and once again, I've actually chatted to fairly famous bands/ my friend produces them and kows about the "buissness" side and my friends in a soon to probably succesful band. They don't care.
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Piracy rules :thumbup:
Quite a lot of people actually like piracy - south park for example love it!
Doesn't make it right.
Also it's not theft, it might be in some copyright laws but its not.
Yes it is theft. I don't understand what you're trying to say with that second bit. Copyright laws aren't laws?
Why isn't it theft?
If I hadn't pirated the music I own I wouldn't have bought it either because I don't have the money and would never be willing to spend more than 10£ a month on music. Therefore I didn't even theoretcally steal anything or such because I wouldn't have bought it if I hadn't.
So if I steal some nice expensive clothes from a store and decide they are comfy and I like the brand, then buy some clothes of the same brand in the same store, I didn't "theoretically" steal? =D>
It's actually made me find out about more bands and exposed a lot of more alternative groups to a broader audience. After more people hearing about them, mainly from pirating, they get gigs at festivals etc which is good money and eventually can gig for themselves.You don't need to pirate music to become aware of what's out there. Before piracy bands got gigs just fine, and to claim they are in any way dependant on them is just rediculous.
So basically after all that, I'd say if you do it right it costs £5k to write a song, including writing it.I would asume you don't mean solely writing it, but also getting it out there? In that case, proof?
If it really was so cheap, including advertising and the publishing of CD's, why do so many bands lack the money and ability to do so without a label?
Because they suck? And corporations run the whole thing. You should be able to send a tape to the raaadio and get it played if they like it. But it's really not like that :(
No about the clothes man that's some really weird thing to compare it to. The artists lose nothing by my pirating except arguably the chance of me buying it. Since I would never have bought more than 1 album a month (in face before I knew about piracy I copied off mates, averaged 1 album a year bought), I'm taking no profits away from them. Please tell me how that's wrong, I would like to hear. But I'm almost 100% that I'm right.
Yeah before piracy some bands got on all right, but there's so many out there. There still not doing amazingly, but should they need to? They chose the lifestyle, they might have been wrong about what it was but hey.
I don;t mean getting it out ther, good music gets itself out there aswell. For example ..
That was put on youtube like 1 week ago. I'm pretty into UK hip hop and I've never heard of him.
In this day and age decent music goes viral via youtube, pirating, myspace wahtever.
You don't need advertising money.
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America isn't greedy. Our gov't just does what any wise gov't would do. Sometimes we have to set aside our values for our best interests.
Hmm... NO.
If everyone thought like that then there'd probably be world war?
Our world should be striving towards keeping those values.
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Piracy rules :thumbup:
Quite a lot of people actually like piracy - south park for example love it!
Also it's not theft, it might be in some copyright laws but its not. If I hadn't pirated the music I own I wouldn't have bought it either because I don't have the money and would never be willing to spend more than 10£ a month on music. Therefore I didn't even theoretcally steal anything or such because I wouldn't have bought it if I hadn't. It's actually made me find out about more bands and exposed a lot of more alternative groups to a broader audience. After more people hearing about them, mainly from pirating, they get gigs at festivals etc which is good money and eventually can gig for themselves.
The 'costs' in creating music are pretty damn slim fi you make good music as well. Sure studio time is fairly expensive, but we're not talking hundreds of thousands, we're talking a hundred pounds maybe an hour. My mates a studio engineer (gunna namedrop, he assis engineered the cure last week), he works for hardly any money but does it because he loves it. You could make a highly feasible album for easily under 10grand. The people that can't are bands that don't write their own songs, use a lot of expensive technology to improve the singing/ other stoof. BAsically completely manufactured bands. Decent producers can easilly produce (I mean create, like dubstep producers) a decent song with sweet mastering in under 2 days.
So basically after all that, I'd say if you do it right it costs £5k to write a song, including writing it. Oh wait that means you'd need to sell 100k to break even.. Well I dunno, I'd be willing to be that most people who listen to music on youtube would hapilly pay 5p for a song and a lot of underground stuff still has easily over 100k views.
Long and short their not gunna be rockstars, but people shouldn't be making music for that.
And screw music companies and advertising, they can crash and burn.
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The Chinese have a 20times better work ethic than any western country.
That's why they do manual labor for us.
They also have a lot more people, a lot more money.
Totally false, US has a higher GDP.
Soon they'll get freedom of speech (although from what I can tell most Chinese arn't fazed by it) and then yeah, they'll be the new superpower :thumbup:
Having freedom of speech makes you a superpower?
Today it was in the news that China is the 4th biggest publisher of scientific research. Trust me, they're hoarding money and soon.. muhaha.
US was probably #1
Haha Americans =D> . I can't find data for recent publications, in the last 10 years america is faarr aahead. But here..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12885271
China has so much money it's silly, the US has a massive defecit, so does the UK. China has hoards of foreign currency. Why can't you accept it mate.
Stop being so patriotic perhaps?
Right now they do labour, soon they will do all the jobs that we do well, but for longer and better.
Having freedom of speech and movement begins to enable to inevitable.
I don't get how you can possibly not think this is happening, I swear at school like 6 years ago they were telling us China will probably be the new superpower soon.
Oh well I like seeing Americans post about their country. It's funny. Us Europeans seem a lot more willing to accept it's going down the pan. <3:
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Ha!
When will the industry realise they need to change media, people don't want to apy 10£ for 10 tracks.
I will continue to pirate everything until I can buy a song for 5p a pop in a format higher than 320.
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The Chinese have a 20times better work ethic than any western country.
They also have a lot more people, a lot more money.
Soon they'll get freedom of speech (although from what I can tell most Chinese arn't fazed by it) and then yeah, they'll be the new superpower :thumbup:
Same with India, I like Chinese culture though so I dunt care.
Today it was in the news that China is the 4th biggest publisher of scientific research. Trust me, they're hoarding money and soon.. muhaha.
Also when they finally yet the RMB(quai :)) be controlled by the world market things will change drastically.
Sichen (I dont no how to spell chinese :()
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I'm pretty sure it was the part where you said you would bot to get 99s, which is AGAINST tif and jagex rules...
lame, i would tho. not gunna, im not gonna pay money irl to get a 99 in a game..
Well there goes membership
Okie thats fine, ima go back to forums were people arn't such [kitties] about botting and are actually allowed to talk about what they think :shades:
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I'm pretty sure it was the part where you said you would bot to get 99s, which is AGAINST tif and jagex rules...
lame, i would tho. not gunna, im not gonna pay money irl to get a 99 in a game..
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Where di my post go?? :unsure:
Jus cos i said its not laziness to bot. You make botters sound realy evil people, there just standard teens who like partsof runescape but ahte the grind.
Can't understand that??
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Well hold on now guys, this could be a viable thread. Ignore the fact that he simply made the thread as a rant for what he wanted to say. Instead what is the one thing that you hate more than anything in this game? See it is a discussion thread now. Personally I dislike the fact that all of my skilling is pointless now that the game has shifted into a combat based MMORPG where all skills are better trained after maxing combats. Very frustrating to be honest.
As soon as d meds were added skilling was less profitable than combat. And it's always been easier to train most skills at max combat.
Hell just had a little flashback, it's always been better training at higher combat. Remember in RSC you had to fight people when you fail pickpocketed (i think?), it was a lot easier if you had higher stats.
I don't know much about skilling now but what's that much easier to train at max combat, other than the fact money is easier. Which has always been the way :mrgreen:
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Even back then it was possibile, DIY playing for one and few massive sellers on your friends list.
Im sure Zezima and other famous top players didnt have dozens of sellers on their lists, Im sure they had 1 or 2 who sold them massive amounts of everything imaginable and they probably paid them a bit more then market value for the service. While those guys may have been constantly buying 100k's of pure ess, logs, etc to resell for a higher price the elite players themselves didnt really need to go through the rat race.
Difference now is no one NEEDS to do that, although the forums and W2 are still alive for those that choose to. Still few people chose to play solo for the same reason few do now, its boring. People actively look for community, whether its clans, friends, etc. So you saying that there isnt a massive trade community is a moot point to the fact that theres massive clan communities now.
+1
Also trading was kinda cool.,,. but it was kind of a massive pain in the ass. It was more severe for autotypers back then and I'd type legit. Man W2 for an hour was killer.
Also there might well have been more lures back then, before the wilderness ditch there were plenty of glitches people were messing with.
And community?? Theres shed loads of it, your just not looking for it. You can not talk, but if I start chatting while Im alching or herbloring at least 1 non botll chat back. BXP weekends there were some great convos going on. :lol:
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No more than it is now!!!
Peopled pay 120$ a year to play RS with no bots?!?
Cor blimey :twss:
EDIT: 240$ also?!?!?!
:boohoo:
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Okay well I see we have alot of people defending the botters (how surprising) okay well I just thought they could add something to there TOS that says if you are caught macroing/rwting you could be charged on how much damage you caused to the game. Then both Jagex and real players are happy while the cheating scum finally get what they deserve.
L0l!
it's a game. You can't charge young teens real life money for getting a computer to play a game for them.
Also bots do bring something to the game, you must not realise the scale of botting. How much do you think sharks would be if they wern't botted? Or herbs? Or infinity robes?
Those things take hours in game but cost relatively little because thousands of people bot them.
Jagex realises that there needs to be bots, that's probably why they reduced their punishments.
But then you get the skillers saying, "It's losing me moneys because I fish, woodcut, etc!"
...When really, there's nothing stopping them from coming to Nex, Bandos, or staking like the rest of us.
Or the price of raw materials could skyrocket and skilling could actually make money like it was designed to? And 99's would retain some value?
RuneScape is combat based. It always has been. Those that refuse to accept that and [bleep] about not having as much money deserve it.
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Oh, so because you have a low total/high combat it automatically has always been based on combat? Only the last couple years it's been leaning towards a combat game because skillings profits have all been dying because of the bots (I remember when I use to make 1.2m an hr rcing in 2008 now it's 550k an hr max). RuneScape is a sandbox game you have the freedom to do whatever you want and that's why I love it. I personally favor non combat skills to combat ones but I still train slayer every now and then.
No, it's because there is literally nothing whatsoever to skills. Most people don't play a game to click for hours to aquire logs. Or skill levels. Most people who play a lot of MMOs choose RS for its PVP and free economy. Not to chop trees for hundreds of hours to make money to click for hundreds of more hours for a skill level. If you enjoy that then thats fine, but people don't PK to make money, they PK for fun.
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I can see 2 actions that would significantly reduce botting activity and still give Jagex a nice cashflow from cheaters:
- Once a player has been detected as a bot, he can only train on a bot dedicated world (2000 population maximum, only one world available) for a month for first offence, 3 months second offence, 12 months third offence and lifetime at the 4rth offence.
- This player is erased from the highscore even though he keeps all skills and items in-game
Those punishment would make it so legit players get to keep their achievement valued at their real legit value. This would make a lot of cheaters think twice before botting and would make those who cheat in order to reach skills and items for the gameplay they want to play (pkers, MHers...etc...) still bot without highscore recognition (something I've been told by bot-apologists that botters don't care about...which I doubt).
These actions would be in-line with Jagex policy of milking cash from cheaters but not in-line with their policy of helping legit players, this is why I don't think this will be implemented.
Trust me almost noone that bots cares about highscores. Who does except the people who are on the front page, which is pretty much impossible for most people now.
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You emphasize banning the account as though there is some other option. In the majority of cases, IP bans only work so long as you're willing to ban not just a single user, but a decently large geographical area. When you're dealing with i.e. a forum that has a few hundred, or a few thousand users globally, that will probably work ok without collateral damage. However, in a game as large as Runescape, IP bans really aren't an option.
I do agree, however, that it seems Jagex has gotten far too lenient regarding botting. I'm not sure I can support instant perma-bans simply due to false reports, system errors, and various other factors, but there's also going too far the other way....
I don't know much about computers :oops:
Perhaps they should make their stance known though, at the moment most people don't report them because they see no point.
Although I still think that RS would be weird without bots now.
Also I swear they could just assign one bloke to finding bots ingame and on forums. I swear it's easy, I went on a botting forum and found out the name of serious weirdo individual gold farmers easy as pie. (they were lame, spent their whole month programming and botting to make ~1500$ :S )
But yeah one guy would cost them, what.. I'm assuming they don't really have to be that skilled so like 24k£ a year?? They could give him the power to clone whatever it is bots use to find their item and ban people quick. Would have thought in an 8 hour day you could at least ban 200 odd if you want to sorc garden or chins.
But yeah I think they get a hell of a lot of moeny from them so they probably won't change what they're doing now.
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These two. Especially bring back the bans, preferably permanent. Making botting impossible isn't obviously going to work (for now) so atleast have some actual punishments. :-sstep 1: raise membership to $10 monthly
step 2: hire some GMs to break the environments of suspected bots, whereby the GM could determine if they were bots.
step 3: the bots would then be banned.
Yeah Fhagex must love bots because at the moment the punishments are jokes!
Do you know how it goes for 24/7 botters?
Temp ban ~ 14-21 days. After another temp ban for the same time and a rollback. After another rollback and temp ban and THEN after the fourth time they catch you botting they perm ban the account. Thats no insentive not to bot, you don't lose anything really. Im pretty sure you keep money and items when they rollback aswell, hasn'tr happened to me though so I dont know.
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Seriously, unless you make it a pain the ass for every player then bots will always exist. Unless you make skills that reuire a human mind, possibly like dungeoneering but that gets botted aswell.. r0fl.
I'm suprised so many people care.
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Okay well I see we have alot of people defending the botters (how surprising) okay well I just thought they could add something to there TOS that says if you are caught macroing/rwting you could be charged on how much damage you caused to the game. Then both Jagex and real players are happy while the cheating scum finally get what they deserve.
L0l!
it's a game. You can't charge young teens real life money for getting a computer to play a game for them.
Also bots do bring something to the game, you must not realise the scale of botting. How much do you think sharks would be if they wern't botted? Or herbs? Or infinity robes?
Those things take hours in game but cost relatively little because thousands of people bot them.
Jagex realises that there needs to be bots, that's probably why they reduced their punishments.
But then you get the skillers saying, "It's losing me moneys because I fish, woodcut, etc!"
...When really, there's nothing stopping them from coming to Nex, Bandos, or staking like the rest of us.
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Or the price of raw materials could skyrocket and skilling could actually make money like it was designed to? And 99's would retain some value?
Face it skillings dumb and boring, if you really have fun because you feel a sense of accomplishment then it shouldn't matter whether you make money or not.
Skilling might make money but like I said what about the majority of players who hate skilling and only combat? Sharks could well be like 4k each, the price of GP would be down because noone bots yews and they lose their alch value. Noone bots anything so everything is really expensive. Probably the majority of what you buy is botted.
This shouldn't be a game revolving around clicking/putting in loads of time, the edge it has on other MMOs is the PVP and market.
Merchanting is still a way better way of making money than botting. And more interesting, do that if you want money.
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Okay well I see we have alot of people defending the botters (how surprising) okay well I just thought they could add something to there TOS that says if you are caught macroing/rwting you could be charged on how much damage you caused to the game. Then both Jagex and real players are happy while the cheating scum finally get what they deserve.
L0l!
it's a game. You can't charge young teens real life money for getting a computer to play a game for them.
Also bots do bring something to the game, you must not realise the scale of botting. How much do you think sharks would be if they wern't botted? Or herbs? Or infinity robes?
Those things take hours in game but cost relatively little because thousands of people bot them.
Jagex realises that there needs to be bots, that's probably why they reduced their punishments.
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They are people.Those big sweat shops of bums over seas
So? :rolleyes: Not like they're contributing their lives to society. Why the [bleep] should we care?
Considering they've been reduced to working in a sweatshop, they're probably just trying to stay alive. I don't see how you can refuse to acknowledge them as people just because of that.
Reduced is the problem. Going to school, getting decent grades, listening to parents, helping others,
volunteering to work part time or any of that would of at least put that person in a better position than
working at a lousy sweatshop. I wouldn't acknowledge them as the same as the people who is working hard
and making good money because that wouldn't be fair. I find that any people, who gives in a little effort
can succeed and ATLEAST make a decent living.
While we're there, we could stop famine and poverty in Africa once and for all.
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I thought we were discussing about China? What happened? :blink:
Bro you know in china you have to pay to go to school right?
You know that not everyone in the world has money?
What you said about people that worked in sweatshops was disgusting.
On topic:
They definately should not start sueing, most people who hack/phish/bot arn't very old, that's just harsh.
Does everyone forget that this is a game? You can't make a 17 yr old who plays a game get into serious trouble in real life because he stole pixels!
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Do any of you realize how many people are botting? If Jagex fixed botting by keeping the current gameplay and catching/banning all bots RS would be completely ruined.
How much do you think herbs would be?
How many people would even play?
So many pures are botted, when free trade was still banned pretty much any pure made after end of free trade was botted. But then they were buying the equipment that pures need and that RS needs to keep the economy ticking over.
Only solutions I see is to make alternative training methods that offer more exp/ learn to live with it or allow it.
The majority of RS now bots, apparently at least 25% of players have botted or bot (no proof whatsoever). Theres also a poll on RSC with 50% having botted. Honestly this is one of the first forums I've seen where people don't seem to understand why people bot.
It's cos most people play RS for fun and most people don't get fun out of grinding. But PVP is almost entirely why people choose RS over any other game, and to have a good PKer requires a lot of boring grinding.
Limewire sued for $75 Trillion
in Off-Topic
Posted
TL;DR :P
Nah jokes, I call everyone man. You've never had someone say that to you before? That's like when the police tell you off for saying mate, 'im not your mate'. IT's just a way people talk it's not the actual original meaning of the word.. whatever man ;)
Nah but come on, seriously I don't know how to find proof?
I know it's going in circles but seriously point out the flaw.
Before I pirated I bought 1 album, if that, a year. I also didn't go to many festivals becasue I din't know many artists.
Now I download something that previously I would not have thought of buying.
Therefore if I hadn't downloaded they still wouldn't have made money from me.
But I go to festivals to see the bands I like.
So surely they lose nothing.
Some even gain.
Tell me what part of that's wrong
And yeah some people would have, because of priacy, paid less to the music industry. But remember a lot of people listen to music purely on youtube or spotify now aswell.
And it's a sign that the media is once again out dated.