To be or not to be!

[kam42705]

The past few weeks, JaGEx has apparently decided to keep their updates hidden (Like the update to Rule 7, or the Shadow Sword). The Rule 7 update in particular seems to have been created to "for the better of the community." But how can a hypocritical rule change that does not inform the very players that are the foundation of Runescape be seen as a furthering of the community?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In essence, JaGEx has showed us that we must read each and every rule daily, in order to make sure that we are following them, since they can change them without notifying most players. Now, the problem with this is that this is a new venue by the creators of this game-yes, one may argue that most rules are "subject to change without notice." However, how can they be hypocritical and unjust by essentially deceiving their players on the legality of certain actions. This deceivement is what JaGEx views as scamming, which is a breach of their own rules. So how do they expect the players to follow a set of rules that JaGEx continues to break, day after day?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So all I ask from you is whether or not a corporation is entitled to inform their customers on the legality of their actions, and if JaGEx ought to inform players about every tweak of their ever-changing rules.

[fly_to_fall]

Yes, they should. Not much more to say really.

 

 

 

And i doubt anyone will disagree with you, so.....

[Jake_Corsair]

Don't be too quick to think nobody will disagree.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

First, in the posts from jagex about the rule change on their forum, they said, that they didn't announce it publicly as they were contacting the creators of certain 3rd party programs (assumably the ones that actually follow the guidelines for them) so that they could get a chance to change them before everyone went crazy. unfortunately, people did see the rule change and went crazy (OMG, They changed rule 7, we'll never survive!!!!!!*). So then they had to explain to everyone what and why, before the 3rd party software people could get a chance to update.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Second, most (if not all) contracts you sign with a company (and the terms of service is a contract) usually have a clause that states basically "the company can change/revise the conditions/guidelines/etc. at any time, without prior notice". Most times this doesn't happen, as most companies will alert people to changes. But sometimes, a change may take place before hand, in order to make a transition a little smoother.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* - this is an exaggertaion of the reaction from the rule change....but not by much.

[fly_to_fall]

Jake, It seems as if you are infact, disagreeing. Do you read the runescape rules everyday? If not, you might be breaking a rule!! Better go check before you get banned!*ohmigawd* honestly though they SHOULD inform us on the front page(!!!) that they have changed a rule.

[kam42705]

Although it may seem like I'm contradicting myself, the fact that companies do reserve the right to change their rules without notice inclines me to believe that Jagex can opt to not inform players on rule changes, although morally, it is simply unjust. It's just like saying that President Bush can use and executive order to issue a command to invade North Korea, but say that he may withdraw it at any time, and after withdrawal, the actions of the soldiers are held accountable by the soldiers themselves. Now, the previous scenario didn't make sense at all, which is basically why the statement of "Subject to change without notice," is utterly and hopelessly without use, because the person with the IQ of the average Runescape player (Which, quite frankly, is below that of a snail) would not be able to comprehend it.

[Jake_Corsair]

Jake, It seems as if you are infact, disagreeing. Do you read the runescape rules everyday? If not, you might be breaking a rule!! Better go check before you get banned!*ohmigawd* honestly though they SHOULD inform us on the front page(!!!) that they have changed a rule.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And did you not notice the part about "jagex wanted to let the creators of the 3rd party software know first, before they announced it to everyone"? They said in their post that no one was in danger of being banned at that time, that they were giving the creators time to adjust their software. While the change had been made, it wasn't being enforced yet. So, in effect, it wasn't actually a change yet, and didn't NEED to be announced at the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The last time they posted on the main page about a change in the rules, everyone went ballistic. So since people couldn't act mature, they tried a different way. Maybe they would inform people more, if whining and spam weren't the result of any change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No I don't read the rules everyday, I also don't call the cable or phone company each day to see if there are any changes with the services/fees.

[pulli23]

 

Jake, It seems as if you are infact, disagreeing. Do you read the runescape rules everyday? If not, you might be breaking a rule!! Better go check before you get banned!*ohmigawd* honestly though they SHOULD inform us on the front page(!!!) that they have changed a rule.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And did you not notice the part about "jagex wanted to let the creators of the 3rd party software know first, before they announced it to everyone"? They said in their post that no one was in danger of being banned at that time, that they were giving the creators time to adjust their software. While the change had been made, it wasn't being enforced yet. So, in effect, it wasn't actually a change yet, and didn't NEED to be announced at the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The last time they posted on the main page about a change in the rules, everyone went ballistic. So since people couldn't act mature, they tried a different way. Maybe they would inform people more, if whining and spam weren't the result of any change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No I don't read the rules everyday, I also don't call the cable or phone company each day to see if there are any changes with the services/fees.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well I agree with you about that everyone went crazy... however there are some things different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't have very much experience with rules and the law and stuff.. But as far as an EULA, if it's not entirely clear, people may interprent it to their own benefits (as long as the people do everything they can to get more information)! Also it's the task of any company to make sure everybody can know the eula.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is also why I myself can't follow rule 7, I don't know what JAGEX specifies under "third-party".. I sent them an query about it, but the only thing I get is that for queries I should get members. Now I've done everything I can, but it's still unclear for me - and I can specify myself what third-party software is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The same applies for a change in the EULA, if the change is made. JAGEX has to make sure everybody reads it! - otherwise, the old EULA still applies. (this is also the reason why you should tick always "I've read and understand the rules" box before registering somewhere)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However I think Jagex added somewhere the line that they can remove your character without any reasons....

[Jake_Corsair]

 

 

Jake, It seems as if you are infact, disagreeing. Do you read the runescape rules everyday? If not, you might be breaking a rule!! Better go check before you get banned!*ohmigawd* honestly though they SHOULD inform us on the front page(!!!) that they have changed a rule.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And did you not notice the part about "jagex wanted to let the creators of the 3rd party software know first, before they announced it to everyone"? They said in their post that no one was in danger of being banned at that time, that they were giving the creators time to adjust their software. While the change had been made, it wasn't being enforced yet. So, in effect, it wasn't actually a change yet, and didn't NEED to be announced at the time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The last time they posted on the main page about a change in the rules, everyone went ballistic. So since people couldn't act mature, they tried a different way. Maybe they would inform people more, if whining and spam weren't the result of any change.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No I don't read the rules everyday, I also don't call the cable or phone company each day to see if there are any changes with the services/fees.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

well I agree with you about that everyone went crazy... however there are some things different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't have very much experience with rules and the law and stuff.. But as far as an EULA, if it's not entirely clear, people may interprent it to their own benefits (as long as the people do everything they can to get more information)! Also it's the task of any company to make sure everybody can know the eula.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is also why I myself can't follow rule 7, I don't know what JAGEX specifies under "third-party".. I sent them an query about it, but the only thing I get is that for queries I should get members. Now I've done everything I can, but it's still unclear for me - and I can specify myself what third-party software is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The same applies for a change in the EULA, if the change is made. JAGEX has to make sure everybody reads it! - otherwise, the old EULA still applies. (this is also the reason why you should tick always "I've read and understand the rules" box before registering somewhere)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

However I think Jagex added somewhere the line that they can remove your character without any reasons....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's not interpretation, when you ticked the box, you lied. You didn't understand the "3rd party" part, but you had no problems saying you understood everything. In the terms, there is an email address specifically for questions about the terms and conditions. And even says after that not to use the site until you understand everything in full. Jagex has no obligation to make sure that you actually agree/understand to what you agreed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back on topic, they do allow people to know the EULA and the rules, they are posted (and updated) on the website. They don't change the rules and not change the rules on the website.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Again, everyone is getting overexcited because they changed the rules and hadn't announced it yet. But they weren't ready to make it a big deal. The change at the time was for the 3rd party progream creators, it had NOTHING to do with anyone else at that time. They weren't even enforcing it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because everyone jumped on the "OMG!!!!! They changed the rules!11!!!!21" bandwagon, then they didn't need to add an update. If it had gone as it sounded like they planned. 3rd party creators would have changed their programs and let everyone that was using it know to upgrade to the new version. Thus making everyone legal again BEFORE Jagex announced it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just because they didn't announce it, doesn't mean they weren't going to.