Trade Records (version alpha) - better market project

[third6day2]

Background

 

 

 

Many ppl like me would wonder how the price of market changes. This topic tries to present some ideas that let you know more about the price.

 

 

 

Currently there are some ways to check price:

 

1. Scan the price list in Marketplace.

 

2. Search the name of items in official forum.

 

3. Ask friends who are good at merchant.

 

4. Log into the game, take a close look at the market.

 

 

 

However, all these methods have drawbacks:

 

1. Price list only give the range of price, and the range is usually large.

 

2. The posts in offcial forum do not equal to deal, therefore buy price may be too low while sell price may be too high.

 

3&4. Cost too much time, you probably would not know the price at last.

 

 

 

The idea of "Trade Records" is designed to solve these problems. Instead of post to sell or buy items, we record deal that actually exists. In the alpha phase, I would like to invite all players to join in this project. It is not going to succeed without your helps!

 

 

 

 

 

How It Works?

 

 

 

Once you have finished trade with other players, post the information in this topic with the following format:

 

 

 

[Date] [items (Amount)] = [Total Price]

 

 

 

Examples:

 

15/5/2007 Coal (600) = 108k

 

15/5/2007 Raw Lobster (1k) = 220k

 

15/5/2007 Yew (50k) = 15M

 

 

 

 

 

What kind of trade should I post

 

 

 

For sake of convenience, please notice the following rules.

 

 

 

1. Post trades that deal with cash only

 

2. Post trades that worth at least 100k

 

3. Post trades that only have one kind of items (eg. if one trade contain coal and iron, then it should not be posted)

 

4. Trades that match item list are preferred.

 

 

 

Item List (Alpha)

 

Log (Normal, Oak, Willow, Maple, Yew)

 

Ore (Iron, Coal, Mithril, Adamantite, Silver, Gold)

 

Bar (Iron, Steel, Mithril, Adamantite, Silver, Gold)

 

Food (Trout, Salmon, Lobster)

 

Others (Rune Essence)

 

 

 

 

 

Declaration and Future development

 

I have not found any similar posts in Forum.Tip.It or other websites. If you know any similar posts that already exist, please let me know. Since this project is in the alpha phase, it cannot be perfect. Comments and suggestions are welcomed.

 

 

 

There are some things I planned to add or wish to happen :)

 

1. I wish everyone would generously show your support.

 

2. I wish this project would be one of the useful price references.

 

3. I wish this idea could be used by Tip.It and add in the marketplace.

 

4. I wish/plan to gather a group of trusty players who will provide information constantly.

 

5. I plan to update the price of popular items periodically. (post3)

 

 

 

Finally, I wish this project would be successful.

[FooK-A-Ji]

I can't see how this post will halp anyones play-time become easier.

[third6day2]

Item List (Alpha)

 

 

 

Log (Normal, Oak, Willow, Yew)

 

Ore (Iron, Coal, Mithril, Adamantite, Silver, Gold)

 

Bar (Iron, Steel, Mithril, Adamantite, Silver, Gold)

 

Food (Trout, Salmon, Tuna, Lobster, Swordfish)

 

 

 

Others:

 

Rune Essence

 

Big Bone

 

 

 

-----END of Item List-----

[FooK-A-Ji]

Item List (Alpha)

 

 

 

I'm still in the dark \

[third6day2]

Lastest Records of Popular Items:

 

 

 

-----To be added once there are enough posts-----

[Sy_Accursed]

This has one HUGE flaw:

 

 

 

The market is not concrete

 

 

 

It is why not such list exsists

 

 

 

Prices change dya in dya out, maybe not majorly.

 

 

 

But over a course a time even average all the deals in this list would give an skewed price.

 

 

 

eg coal price crashes, lsit already has say 100+ coal deals on it.

 

 

 

It'd take weeks/months for the average of thoose deal prices to reflect the true value.

[third6day2]

Here's a little explanation about the project. The "trade records" means record actual deals that happened between players, therefore it gives another reference of current price. Since It's just started, the impacts are not easy to see now. I think it will be more useful once more ppl are joining into this project.

 

 

 

Let me post first:

 

 

 

14/5/2007 Rune Axe (10) = 130k

[Sy_Accursed]

I don't think its of use.

 

 

 

It'd be useful for back referenced research into market history.

 

 

 

but unless by chance a trade on say mith has been added to lsit on day ur buying mith its useless.

 

 

 

Plus it totally ignore factors of overpaying due to gr8 need or under paying due to friendhsips

[third6day2]

I don't think its of use.

 

 

 

It'd be useful for back referenced research into market history.

 

 

 

but unless by chance a trade on say mith has been added to lsit on day ur buying mith its useless.

 

 

 

Plus it totally ignore factors of overpaying due to gr8 need or under paying due to friendhsips

 

 

 

I am sorry I dont understant what do you mean:

but unless by chance a trade on say mith has been added to lsit on day ur buying mith its useless.

 

 

 

 

Market means the majority's willings of buy or sell. It doesnt matter if needs are great or trades are between friends. The idea is to provide another view point of price, the choices are still yours.

 

 

 

Currently, no matter on forum or in game, sell price is too high, buy price is too low, obviously. But trades still exists, so what is the price then? In this topic, price is not sell or buy price, its actual trade price.

 

 

 

Plus, how do you know what price should be? This topic may give you the answer (at least reference). I need your support. Give me some times, then lets see if it works or not.

[Duke_Freedom]

I don't see how this is going to give you any more accurate or faster price checks then quick-checking the official forums.

 

 

 

Doing a search on the official forums works the fastest anyway and is accurate enough. Just round down what people are selling for and round up what people are buying for and average that to decide your own buying / selling price. If you want to do more elaborate price research, open up a few threads and check what people actually bid for the item in threads.

[third6day2]

I don't see how this is going to give you any more accurate or faster price checks then quick-checking the official forums.

 

 

 

Doing a search on the official forums works the fastest anyway and is accurate enough. Just round down what people are selling for and round up what people are buying for and average that to decide your own buying / selling price. If you want to do more elaborate price research, open up a few threads and check what people actually bid for the item in threads.

 

 

 

Actually I see this is going to give you more accurate price checks, once more ppl are joining in this project.

 

 

 

Search official forums gives sell or buy price, sometimes it works, but sometimes it doesnt, the gap could be so large that you will think trade is impossible. Therefore by introducing actual trade pirce, you will know what price are ppl selling and buying, and that actually happened.

 

 

 

Since this project is just started, records are not enough to show its impact. In the later stage, I imagine a group of traders will provide trade records constantly, giving one of the reliable price checks, also albe to support and update price list.

 

 

 

It may not work at last, but at least we should give it a try. If it failed, we dont lose anything, if it works, we will have more information of market. It really need support now. Give it some time, then lets see if it works or not.

[Sy_Accursed]

This 'Trade' price you speak of is largely useless.

 

 

 

The sell price and buy price forums give are.

 

 

 

Sell prices - What the mass sellers are selling for and therefore how much u need to save to buy tht item

 

 

 

Buy Price - the price thoose desperately seeking an item will pay for it. Therefore how much u can make off ur item if ur smart

 

 

 

Ur 'trade list' - a back dated lsit of prices people used days weeks or months ago which is useless as prices fluctuate depending on forums or world ur in. ur in-game location. current updates. and generally day by day.

 

 

 

Ie rune essence wills ell for more in edge where rcers need it, than right next to the ess mines

[third6day2]

This 'Trade' price you speak of is largely useless.

 

 

 

The sell price and buy price forums give are.

 

 

 

Sell prices - What the mass sellers are selling for and therefore how much u need to save to buy tht item

 

 

 

Buy Price - the price thoose desperately seeking an item will pay for it. Therefore how much u can make off ur item if ur smart

 

 

 

Ur 'trade list' - a back dated lsit of prices people used days weeks or months ago which is useless as prices fluctuate depending on forums or world ur in. ur in-game location. current updates. and generally day by day.

 

 

 

Ie rune essence wills ell for more in edge where rcers need it, than right next to the ess mines

 

 

 

I am sorry I have to disagree with your opinions.

 

 

 

You ignored one fact that there is gap between sell price and buy price, no matter in forum or game. Not all of the sellers or buyers finally got a deal. Even someone said a price, it could be changed when actual trade. Therefore, trade price is more accurate than just sell or buy price. You will see what price is actually trading between players which is the stronger support.

 

 

 

Indeed, price fluctuates day by day. Then what is the price then? This system could give at least references to offer your price. Since all records have date, amount and price.

 

 

 

And if more ppl are joining in this project, records will be enough to show price movements. We are not talking about data weeks ago or months ago.

 

 

 

Finally, you are right about the impact of forum, world and location. But you overestimate the impact. The ranges usually are small. If ranges are large, ppl will move to that forum, world or location, eliminate the difference at last. And my experience supports that fact.

 

 

 

Conclusion:

 

1. This system doesnt aim to give exact price

 

2. This system doesnt conflict with other exsiting methods, but will give its support

 

3. This system is useful to help you offer your price

[Dark_Lord552]

5-15-07 Maples(25k) 1.65 mill

[Sy_Accursed]

I still see major flaws with this based on my years of gameplay.

 

 

 

1) What trades ACTUALLY happen have huge value difference dependant on buyer and seller. Hence why there is a buy price and a sell price.

 

 

 

I mean when buying guthan's spear I was desperate for it and paid 6.5mil (nb barrows were more expensive at this time) where as upon selling one to make some money i sold it at around 5.5mil.

 

 

 

All items have these 2 values dependant on thier buying/selling purpose. If they all had 1 trade value merchanting would not exsist

 

 

 

2)The forum, world, location thing does make a huge impact and not everybody moves around to buy/sell items. From world and location hopping in my time buying maples I had prices ranging from 20gp ea in a busy world at seers next to maples, 40gp ea off the forum and 60gp ea in a quiet world at varrock.

 

 

 

Also all rare items are notable more expensive when bought outside world 2 or the forums.

 

 

 

3) The time flaw of this lsit is already evident, the one entry you had early on is alreayd out-dated in the market price system. Its a known fatc a compiled lsit of prices does not work for rs as the prices change too much. Usiubng the forums does work as that is basically a list that updates minute upon minute with the new traders posting up their deals.

 

 

 

I mean since the mass bot banning happening shark prices are rising very quickly back from 500ea towards the original 1k ea

[third6day2]

I still see major flaws with this based on my years of gameplay.

 

 

 

1) What trades ACTUALLY happen have huge value difference dependant on buyer and seller. Hence why there is a buy price and a sell price.

 

 

 

I mean when buying guthan's spear I was desperate for it and paid 6.5mil (nb barrows were more expensive at this time) where as upon selling one to make some money i sold it at around 5.5mil.

 

 

 

All items have these 2 values dependant on thier buying/selling purpose. If they all had 1 trade value merchanting would not exsist

 

 

 

2)The forum, world, location thing does make a huge impact and not everybody moves around to buy/sell items. From world and location hopping in my time buying maples I had prices ranging from 20gp ea in a busy world at seers next to maples, 40gp ea off the forum and 60gp ea in a quiet world at varrock.

 

 

 

Also all rare items are notable more expensive when bought outside world 2 or the forums.

 

 

 

3) The time flaw of this lsit is already evident, the one entry you had early on is alreayd out-dated in the market price system. Its a known fatc a compiled lsit of prices does not work for rs as the prices change too much. Usiubng the forums does work as that is basically a list that updates minute upon minute with the new traders posting up their deals.

 

 

 

I mean since the mass bot banning happening shark prices are rising very quickly back from 500ea towards the original 1k ea

 

 

 

I am glad to see your rational debate. But I want to make sure you understand the purpose of this project.

 

 

 

 

 

1. As you have mentioned, prices are difficult to estimate. This problem not only exists in this project, but also all other methods. This project doesnt aim to provide exact price (I think I said it many times), but to give another view point. Look, if we see "price" in different ways, should not we know it better?

 

 

 

 

 

2. You think

What trades ACTUALLY happen have huge value difference dependant on buyer and seller.

It was wrong because all trades contain two parties, buyer and seller, together but not separate. There are difference between buy price, sell price and trade price:

 

 

 

buy price = the price buyer is willing to buy

 

sell price = the price seller is willing to sell

 

trade price = the price the trade is worth

 

 

 

Notice buy/sell price is only a "willing", while trade price "actually" happens, it's a fact. Which one do you think is more reliable, willing or fact?

 

 

 

 

 

3. If you still doubt about this project, just see it as normal price check method as other exsiting ones. (Although I believe it is better) Think about the current price list, how do you know what price should be? Is it based on your trade experiences? Maybe experiences of a group ppl. It's similar with this project, gathering ppl's experiences to produce another price list. But this project tries to gather even more ppl, by introducing standard formats. I dont see any problems but one.(comparing to other methods).

 

 

 

 

 

4. The only problem is lack of records so that few ppl can imagine its impacts. But remember its stilll in alpha phase, there are only 2 records by now (thinks for the 2nd records).

 

 

 

 

 

Conclusion:

 

1. Trade price is different to buy/sell price. (this concept is the most important, since "trade price" is the core of whole project)

 

2. This project is not perfect. (which means if problems exist in other methods, do not blame on it)

 

3. Please do not judge this project based on its current form (alpha). As I said, lacking of records is the only problem. There is few things we can do but wait more ppl realize and join in this project.

 

 

 

Finally, I am glad to see your opinions, really. I will be more glad if you understand what it is, and show your support.

[third6day2]

17/5/2007 Willow Logs(110K) = 2.2M

[Sy_Accursed]

No matter how many times you say it buy and sell price exist because they happen.

 

 

 

Trade price does not.

 

 

 

Sure each trade is made up of a buyer and a seller, but the price is determined by the initiating party.

 

 

 

If the seller initiates it generally means thy want to get rid of item and get some money hence the sell price occurs.

 

 

 

If the buyer initiates it generally they want to get that item fairly quickly so the higher buy price occurs.

 

 

 

Both of which are trades that really happen and so are therefore fact.

 

 

 

The way in which merchanting often work is buying from a seller (aka cheaper). Then offering it to buyers who will pay the higher value.

 

 

 

I know for a fact using forums would be faster than this list, not to mention fact I have numerous trades in my memory that prove there is a difference between buy and sell price, whihc both actually exsist as fact.

 

 

 

Plus your lsit totally ignores the bulk factor. Items bought in bulk are generally offered at a cheaper price.

 

 

 

eg buying a law will set you back 1k normally

 

buying 10k laws will set you back around 300ea (or is it 500 these days i forget without checking?)

[third6day2]

I would like to share some of my opinions. Imagine there are some posts said:

I quote these from official forum. And I only quote those are using standard format.

Selling 35k Coal 200ea

Buying 10k Coal 100ea

Selling 1k Coal 200ea

Selling 1k Coal 190ea

Selling 7k Coal 190ea

Buying 1k Coal 180ea

Buying 10k Coal 190ea

Selling 2k Coal 180ea

So what price will you take if you are buying or selling? Obviously pirces that between 180-190 can get deals, but those selling price=200, or buying price=100 are just wasting time. I called these posts or offers as "noisy". Since they have little possibility to get deal at last. This example is quite simple, buy price and sell price are partially mixed. But not all others will do. Many ppl were shouting unreasonable prices time by time, creating large noisy. Take a look at Varrock West (world 1) or Falador East (world 2), you will know what I mean.

 

 

 

Why will you check price list or forum? Most ppl do so because they want to decide what price to sell or buy, and hope someone else will take their offer. Since "noisy" exists, the price range is not accurate. However, if take trade price (I think you already know what it is) into consideration, we will know what price are ppl actually trading. Isn't it more possible to get a deal by using "trade price"?

 

 

 

You may think about the time flaw. We can not eliminate this problem (as same as all other methods), but to minimize the effect. When more ppl are joining in this project, records can show the price movement in one week, which is enough for reference.

 

 

 

Now, time to reply your points. You said:

The way in which merchanting often work is buying from a seller (aka cheaper). Then offering it to buyers who will pay the higher value.

I know for a fact using forums would be faster than this list, not to mention fact I have numerous trades in my memory that prove there is a difference between buy and sell price, whihc both actually exsist as fact.

 

Agree. =D> When trades are finally dealed, buy/sell price equal to trade price. Trade price happened whenever trades are done, no matter which party start first. Plus we do accept price range. Say if price range (trade price) is 100-500, it means if you are smart merchant you can buy at 100 sell at 500 earn 400% profit. It is possible (if price range is true) since other ppl have already done so.

 

 

 

You also said:

 

Plus your lsit totally ignores the bulk factor. Items bought in bulk are generally offered at a cheaper price.

 

True. Remember it happens in all other methods. Do not blame this problem to it. If bulk factor creates price range, we do accept it, just like other methods.

 

 

 

The ultimate goal is to establish perfect price check system. But before that, this project is the first step. A thousand miles journey is started by taking the first step.