gompo Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 this is a discussion already in progress. i felt it was too much off topic where it was but i wanted to continue the discussion. so if you are confused, dont be, just jump right in and let gompo have it. :thumbsup: oh my, productivity to improve society in their way??? :wall: what is your determination as to what is "productive"? improvement of mankind? improvement of the world? whos society and just who decides what is "productive" for it??? i tend to think playing RS is productive and improves society,..... at least for me it does. :P I hope you are making a joke here... Or otherwise I hope you're still a child and need to grow up a little bit. The argument you fired at me here is a non argument, it is like those republicans who refuse to believe there is increased global warming because it doesn't fit their agenda.. And then say "but we aren't completely certain". - You can never be, and just like that you can never describe "society" or "improvement" everyone knows what it is. But really if you ultimate goal is to play runescape, and you believe you help others with that. Be my guest. I just hope you are trolling me and will know what is important once you have to make a decision. i responded to this post...... @pulli23And the society pays for the lack of activity & productivity. Really, I hate this argument, as it is complete vain. Anybody should aim for the heighest productivity and try to improve society in their way. Having "fun" is only as a distraction and should be done by people to relax to get energy to be active the next day again................. society is made of individuals. what active and productive may be for the person doing it, may not do a single thing for someone else. we are not insects, we have "free will" as humans, for good or ill, we will use that free will for what we believe will help us to survive and improve our position in society. who decides what is active and productive? humans are nothing but animals at our core. the will to survive by any means necessary will always overcome society and its supposed Utopian outlook. there will always be someone who slacks, who will abuse power (such as determining just what is active and productive) there will be sheep, rebellion, a hand out, or a feeling of being better than another a multitude of other thoughts as to what iis best for the individual. who makes the rules? who enforces them and how do they enforce them? the old story of the fox and the scorpion comes to mind... a scorpion goes up to a fox and asks the fox to swim it across the river, the fox says "but you will sting me and i will die" the scorpion says "i promise, i will not" so the fox agrees and the scorpion crawls on the back of the fox and the fox starts swimming across the river. about half way across the scorpion stings the fox. as the fox is drowning he says "why did you sting me? now we both will drown!" the scorpion replies "it is in my nature" humans are animals. they will always be ready to do what they feel is in their nature, the consequences be dammed. another old saying is, if you are young and not a democrat you have no heart, if you are old and not a republican you have no brains. is there a middle ground? it is good you trust others to do what is right and good for socitiy, hence you have a heart, but if you trust people to always to do the right thing, you have no brains. i play RS for myself, i do not now nor will i ever believe it helps anyone else but me. but in the long run, in my life, i am the only one that does matter. as far as growing up, i am full grown. i have been lucky enough to have had a very rich full life. been places, done things, seen things that will always be with me. maybe my long life has turned me cynical, after all i have seen the great things man can do as well as the horrible things they can do. in my experience, the people who are the most likely to succeed are the ones who will take every advantage they can to win and when we allow anyone to set the rules, they just add more and more until we are just slaves and do just work for the ones in charge at our highest productivity... otherwise we are useless and disposed of. :shame: now for some hypocrisy. :oops: ------------------ @Ts_Stormrage: first, you are correct, i stated some things incorrectly. the sound barrier, for example, was known about and that it could be broken. what i meant to say is, many people were not quite sure what breaking the sound barrier would do to man and machine. while i do not recall (and to lazy to check) saying that light was not faster than sound, if i did, i can see why you would believe i am narrow minded, and for my stupid mistake in how i may have worded it, i am sorry. you are also correct about the earth being round, about DaVinci's drawings, about Pluto, and some of your other statements, but.... what was thought about Aristotle, DaVinci, and Pluto at some point in our past? did everyone suddenly decide Aristotle was absolutely correct? did people believe that DaVinci was a scientist more than an artist were his doodles considerd nothing more than doodles? was Pluto a planet till we learned otherwise? we are on the cusp of becoming gawds ourselves. we are almost creating life ourselves. getting ready to explore worlds in our solar system. designing artificial intelligence thet will be able to learn and adapt to its environment. testing the boundaries of the light barrier. delving into quantum mechanics and ToE. experimenting with conscientious thought and power of probability. we are turning into gawds. be it in the cyber world, the real world or with the unknown world. should we stop? will we allow these experiments go unfettered? will we allow robots with IE to do whatever they will? or will our tests have limits placed upon them and have harsh demands.... just like a god. just when is witchcraft, science and science, witchcraft? in the past 2 centuries, man has advanced more than the sum total of all its previous achievements form the years (however many years will make you happy) humans have been around. what will we be like in 100 years more? 1000 years more? will we be able to create our own universes? will we be stardust? will we be in heaven? (tho, like you, i to find it hard to believe hell, rather a lack of being would be punishment enough) as for being religious, i might be. as long as i do not stop trying to understand our past i will not stop looking for the future. i have studied religions, heck, i was married by a wiccan priestess. does that make me stuck with some arcane belief of deity(s)? maybe, but just how does it harm you? is my ability to "hedge my bets" keep anyone from staying stuck in current facts, as you stated "We have yet to determine what accounts for 85% of the gravity of the universe we measured, and 94% of all energy". maybe if those stats were reversed, there might not be god(s). until we know all and everything is ours to create and do, will the old gods be replaced with the new gawds who will use the laws of nature to either create our own universes or blow ourselves into stardust and allow some other grand experiment to take our place. science is a religion and it has followers that will persecute and demean others who do not believe as they do, all the while saying their science is the only way. they will say that the universe was "matter and energy are different states of the same thing, matter IS energy... All this matter existed in the very tiniest fraction of a infinitessimal small point at the very beginning of time... A spot where all the matter (and energy) of the universe was condensed into a single point... The first few thousands of years the universe was far too hot for the energy to condense into the particles that make up the protons and electrons..." well, excuse me. isnt the "The 1st Law of Thermodynamics states that matter can be neither created nor destroyed"? i also say, prove it. oh, wait, it is just a theory!! we will never be able to prove it... at least until we can do it ourselves. scientists stating theory is no more or less wrong than a preacher saying 94% of the energy in the universe is deity. (sure i know, "natural law, mathematics, all that other stuff say there aint a god, but if not god, what is it?) the story about the elephant.... it is a story about a group of blind men taken to separate parts of an elephant and describe what it is. each thought their description of the elephant was correct when in fact it was only based on their own POV. read "blind men and an elephant" on wikipedia. (ya, i know, wikipedia, but in the very first statement about the parable is what i have been trying to say to you) to @pulli23 & @Ts_Stormrage: while i do not trust human nature to do the right thing, i do trust it to always look for ways to do what cant be done. one day, i hope, we all will be equal, but until we control our own nature, environment and destination, we will never stop trying, unless it destroys us all first. No matter where you go, there you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obfuscator Posted October 2, 2011 Share Posted October 2, 2011 Please use this topic to continue the discussion: http://forum.tip.it/topic/302452-beliefs-religion-and-faith/ Locked. "It's not a rest for me, it's a rest for the weights." - Dom Mazzetti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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