Jump to content

Stewie_Griffen

Members
  • Content Count

    329
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

0 Neutral

About Stewie_Griffen

  • Rank
    Bear Fur
  1. Oh for sure. I won't deny that for some groups of the RWT populace that it would make a dent in their profit. Although, somewhere in the supply line, there's a primary supplier (or suppliers) that grind for the gold and sell to others. Being P2P alleviates that grind because of the larger money making opportunities. Then the flippers come in :P Though, the guys that have large amounts of real cash can afford to lose a few dollars on membership while still profiting considerably (depending how their business is structured. They might sell from solely a main account, or a main and several mules, who they buy from, and so forth). That's who I was talking about when I argued my point, but I see the counter has some validity. But for the trade limit's role as a deterrent, that's easily bypassed depending on how you market the gold and what skills you have. Some people flip gold with no loss, others flip at a small loss. If you have enough skill to generate substantial amounts of cash on your own though, well, that's pure profit. In fact, I argued the reasons for incompetence in light of the fact they wished to avoid negatively affecting players using evidence. The fact that they wanted to achieve a particular effect, and failed as a result of appealing to the immediate needs of the player base is shown through the fact that they left gift-giving untouched. Gift-giving = anyone can use this as a ruse to real world trade. Not hard to see, right? Can you see why they're incompetent? They wanted to curb RWT, and this major source of RWT still remains. They failed in this respect, no matter how successful their other efforts in the same instance were. I'll concede to you, thanks to Bruno, that some RWTers are actually affected to some degree by this update. But the effects are not as far reaching as some would like to hope, for a large portion of RWT remains, no? Further, any effects this has on gold-flippers can be lessened, if not completely bypassed, provided they're willing to take a little risk by buying a membership. It was never my position that Jagex had malicious ulterior motives to justify the way you're mocking the portrayal of Jagex by some members here. The ulterior motives can be neutral, or they can even be beneficial, although that's unlikely. Perhaps I came off as demonizing them because of the context surrounding the world "ulterior". If so, I apologize for not clarifying. I never stated it was imperative for Jagex to stall RWT efforts no matter the cost. In truth, I wouldn't care very much what the effects their actions had on the populace or the game itself. I've long since lost interest in this game. What I was critical of, and the reason why I posted here, was to show that the implementation of this isn't as well-thought out as some people think it to be. I'm aware that you have to pay membership to remove the restrictions. My entire premise was that this has no effect despite the fact you pay membership. The point is that this doesn't curb the profits of the sellers by any significant amount. If you have 5 mules and you pay $8 to remove the restrictions on each of them, that's a $40 expense you'll pay in exchange for a large profit selling the gold housed on those accounts. This is common sense through simple observation. Yes, it'll have an effect, no doubt, this requirement. But how large is the effect that it can be considered a deterrent? I argued that it isn't really a deterrent because players will buy members either way for a larger profit margin. Hence, it's closer to a tax, not a barrier to entry. My position does not require further research. The fact that Jagex gets money for what's essentially allowing RWT to continue is what confounds me, hence why I called this plan not a barrier to entry, but closer to a tax on cheating. Jagex is taxing cheaters to play the game when, in my opinion, they should focus on devising methods they know cheaters can't rebuff against. All this is doing, is in my opinion, very slowly bleeding the RWTers dry. To at least make this plan effective, why not mass ban accounts more frequently? Then these people will be forced to buy membership more frequently and hence it'll more deeply cut into their profits, no? :P You're correct, fewer remaining gold-traders means others will be forced to create new accounts (and pay membership) to continue the practice. But some traders have so much capital that I think this dilutes the effect it could have. I think it's an inefficient solution, in my opinion, because I think Jagex is trying to bleed RWTers slowly rather than swiftly deal with the main source of the problem. I've heard (from some black market forum, one player's personal experience, and corroborations from other members) that Jagex wiped a few major gold-sellers in the middle of highly-unbalanced trades. I applaud them for that! But is this tactic we're talking about the best they can do? I think they can do better. At the very least, provide incentives for gold-sellers to buy membership more frequently. Preferably at a pace where their expenses are higher compared to their income. But is that possible without negatively affecting legitimate players? Where do we find a comfortable balance where we can effectively deal with cheaters while keeping the population happy? I think Jagex tried to do this, but fumbled on some points. Like I said, my positions here aren't meant to be based on much research. If I were making a greater claim, I research it, I assure you.This isn't to say I'm purposely making unfounded claims. Rather, I assume my assertions are valid to some degree because the premises that construct my argument are empirically verifiable. In other words, I base my assertions on what I assume to be common sense. I understand how it could be taken the other way though. I apologize if it seemed I was pulling facts out of my ass. :P I'm not suggesting that they remove their free-to-play effectiveness, no. I agree with what you say here. I don't deny that free-to-play macros are useful to RWT companies in generating a healthy gold supply. The reason I focused more on P2P gold-farming is because I assume most would agree (for what I think are evident reasons) that P2P gold-farming is more profitable than F2P gold-farming due to greater access to resources, and generally higher prices on members-only resources there (sharks, monkfish, rocktail, and so forth). As these companies are businesses, after all, profit is the bottom line for them. What ensures the most profit? P2P. This is how I reached my conclusion. Again, I think this conclusion can be reached by simple observations and thus carries some validity. I apologize if it seems I'm pulling facts out of nowhere. :P That's true about resources. On top of that, transactions to P2P customers can occur on F2P worlds. I'll give you that. Perhaps I was wrong to assume P2P was more efficient due to more expensive resources :mellow: I mean, maybe I shouldn't have assumed so readily. But the gold-farmers in Taverly Dungeon, the wilderness and elsewhere do generate hefty amounts of profit, no? I think the more expensive P2P resources gathered offset the quantity of the lower-level resources gathered in F2P. True. I think I interpreted 'efficiency' too narrowly in this context then. I concede that my conclusion may likely be wrong. I still think, though, that their budgets can absorb the membership costs, provided accounts aren't banned quickly enough. If you're right, however, I'd like to think Jagex is slowly bleeding out the RWT companies this way via what I term a "tax". Well, if we're talking about increasing costs, perhaps not directly. Firstly, there's no immediate cost to the user of the credit card. Secondly, If I remember, Jagex had to pay charge-back fees on behalf of the users who had their credit cards stolen. I agree that legal action is possible. The question is, what sort of legal action will be taken? Jagex has taken action against RWT companies before -- but not in the way you think. They got to change their domain name. This temporarily stalled their operations, but they quickly resumed after. My argument was not to prove that Jagex hasn't taken action against these people. My argument was to prove that this particular action isn't as effective as some think it to be. I could be wrong though, I admit. I agree that expecting Jagex to deal with the problem in a swift manner is unrealistic, considering the legal fees, which are certainly beyond even Jagex's income to pursue the several cases they have, and the law surrounding real-world trading is actually complex. I wouldn't say it's exactly illegal. It's against Jagex rules, but there's facets of it that have to be considered. Breaches of copyright, intellectual property, legal protection of the prosecuting party, and so forth. I really don't know much about the issue beyond that. I recommend you look here though. Links to places in that thread, as well as discussion of the legal aspects to get the juices flowing. Again, I didn't mean to give off the impression I was making unfounded claims. I thought they were valid to some degree, otherwise I would've clarified how uncertain I was. I apologize for this. I'm not advocating that extreme measures be taken, no. Certainly they could've implemented the trade limit better, in my opinion. For example. What's the need to bleed RWTers dry? Why not stop incoming transactions to begin with? That way, customers can no longer buy gold. RWT is fueled by demand (the customers). With no way for the customers to collect their ill-gotten gold, demand from them effectively falls, no? Yes, gift-giving may be affected, but this can be patched. Remember the former friends trade limit? You could give several tens of thousands to your friends provided they'd been on your friend list for at least one month, and depending on your quest points. At the very least, the implementation of a system similar to this would impede customer demand for gold a bit, I think. Plus, once the would-be buyers finally collect their gold, the system picks up the unbalanced trade and punishes the suspected gold buyer. It would need a way to differentiate between RWT and gift-giving though. I have no proposal for this, unfortunately. I don't object too much to Jagex making money off their current tactic. It's actually clever that some RWTers are buying into it. Also, pardon me for coming off as arrogant to you. I don't want this debate to be antagonistic towards anyone. I just strongly felt what I said at that moment. The annoyance wasn't directed at you rather than Jagex. I certainty didn't mean to paint them as evil, either. I think that's a silly idea. :P This has been a long reply for me. It's been fun to debate with you, Stewie. I'll check your reply sometime later. Take care :P Thanks for clarifying some of what you said. I'm sorry if I came across as annoyed, it's just that some of what you said came across as passive aggressive at the time and it bothered me. Nothing against you, there's just a tendency for people to work around anti-flaming rules by being very passive aggressive. It's been fun discussing this with you too. One of the more attractive things about this game for me when I joined was the sense of community, and a big part of that was gift giving. The new update is fine for me in that regard because the gifts I got as a new players were small, such as a set of full mith that I got around Christmas as a stranger. For higher level players though, the gifts would be bigger. I remember giving a friend a Dragon Medium Helm and they thought I was a cheapskate (I was. :P). It would be a balancing act to try and disentangle RWT and legitimate gift giving. The return of free trade shows that Jagex, to some extent, values that part of the game over stopping RWT and the wide support for its return shows that the player base supports it as well. It's easier to make tough decisions as an individual, but as a company they have to moderate their goal of stopping RWT with the interests of their customers. Push too hard, and they lose more revenue than they would ever have lost from credit card fees. It's not so much incompetence as caution. Jagex has shown before that they're willing to make an effort to destroy or complicate RWT efforts, but people got upset. In one of your other posts you described this recent approach as somewhat hamfisted but I think that more accurately describes their previous approaches. Jagex should pick up the pace of bans to encourage RWTers to resubscribe, I agree with you on that. It is more of a tax than a surefire deterrant but I think that was what they were aiming for. From a business perspective, if they can get money from RWTers that match the charge-back fees on stolen credit cards, then their measure has worked. Jagex doesn't make that kind of data publically available but personally I don't think they've reached that point yet. Knowing Jagex they're rolling this out in phases. The bot nuke was the single biggest anti-rulebreaker deterrant that came out all at once. Even the free trade removal was phased. I don't think this is the endgame. I played around on the Grand Exchange site and looked up some prices of items I figured would be attractive for RWTers to gather en masse. The most attractive P2P item would probably be pure essence. It's quick to mine, decently priced, and only needs 30 mining to gather. Yew logs, on the other hand, are almost four times more expensive. They're slower no doubt, but they're free. This next point is a very small factor, but there's a planned update that involves essenceless Runecrafting experience. When that comes out, essence will probably drop massively in price since alter training is painful. I can't think of an update that would eliminate the usefulness of Yew Logs as a firemaking and fletching tool though. Especially now that bots are gone, I don't see the price of Yew Logs going down soon. However, all of this only matters if the company uses a quantity over quality approach. A smaller company made up of independent players will slay bosses because with or without RWT they would do it. I remember Cursed You got banned for RWT, and if I remember right he was a staker. He sold some of his winnings for thousands. It would be very difficult to eliminate individuals RWTing. They're probably paying for membership legitimately and because they have no use for a wide system of mules they won't be affected by this update. If they were banned, it would be far more devastating to them and they'd probably be more likely to call it a day instead of train up to maxed stats again. This is an area where stepping up bans would help, but that runs the risk of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. If someone has millions and millions of gold being traded, they're probably involved in the greater RS community. If Jagex bans a guy who got a multimillion dollar gift from a friend who quit, then the community will remember that one mistaken ban over however many RWTers were banned. It's a balancing act. Truthfully I think that the game won't be killed by RWT. Bots were a leading candidate to do so but the recent nuke only uncovered the greater issue. To me, the free trade removal was the first nail in the coffin. Even now that free trade has returned, those players that left have left. I don't think Runescape's population ever returned to the levels before that update. The parts of the community that remained clammored for high level updates, and they had every reason to. This was a time where the most difficult quest was RFD. So Jagex decided to give high level updates: the Living Rock Caverns, Nex, Overloads, and all sorts of other goodies. They fell into a "give a mouse a cookie dilemma: though. The high level community had the patience to play the game to the point that they did and as a result had some really grand ideas for high level updates. They wanted more. If a lower to mid level update came out, it was dismissed as useless. This has created a massive disparity between high level and low level players. When I was a wee noob, I saw a guy in F2P smithing with a dragon medium helmet on and thought "WOW THIS GUY IS AWESOME". You see that now and until recently it was a bot. It's only natural that some things devalue over time, but things have changed drastically. If I saw a high level player in F2P now, they would probably have some sort of GWD armor and a skillcape. The definition of high level has changed. It went from "100+" to maxed. I think I'm level 116 or 117 on a P2P server, but that makes me solidly average. I didn't see a lot of low levels in P2P for the most part. Jagex's high level updates, while high in quality, created a topheavy game that will take massive updating to fix. Being a high level player now requires far more time than it did in the past, and the grinding gameplay doesn't help. This will probably upset several people on this site devoted to the metagame, but Jagex needs to bring in new players. In most other games, the max level is somewhat simple to reach or the leveling system is irrelevent to enjoying the game. Most of the fun new goodies are high level material, but you could get a Xbox 360 and play Call of Duty and get a similar level of enjoyment to someone who has been playing it for months. The old guard doesn't like this concept, and understandably so: they spent a lot of effort getting to get the skills that they did and don't want it to be devalued for the sake of noobs. Halo Reach has a leveling system that probably takes as long as a Runescape account to max out, but it doesn't affect gameplay. Whether I'm a Recruit or a Forerunner, I can still enjoy the same magnitude of face-shooting as everyone else. The high level players can grind for the armor pieces regardless. I realize that Xbox games are not the same genre as Runescape, but in today's times they are going to be an alternative to the game. The only barrier to entry is cost, which becomes cheaper as consoles get cheaper and games gradually lose value with age. The concept of working for the high level content may be of good intent, but it won't bring people to the game. Jagex, like other game companies, needs to appeal to casual players or else they'll never increase their revenues. I got started playing this game in an 8th grade computer lab, along with most other people I know that played the game. Most of them quit but I pressed on because I knew other people who played too. I remember being a broke noob who was shocked at the thought of paying 1000 coins for the Phoenix Key, wearing Proselyte armor until I could afford full rune, and jumping for joy when I sold everything I owned and went to Barrows and finally topped a million coins. The warspears I got later let me get 70+ construction and prayer, which at the time was useless but became very helpful later on. There was a progression of sorts: you stumble into money and from there you get more. The resources required now to stumble into what is defined as "money" have changed. A competitive monster hunt now needs Overload potions and high summoning levels. How do you get those levels? Money. How do you get that money? Monster hunting or Slayer. The slayer option is unattractive to new casual players though. They want to run around with Dragon Claws, not kill hundreds of monsters over and over again. This was a part of the game I enjoyed, and I know Tip.it loves it too, but creating such high barriers to entry is not attractive to new members and that's just a reality of the game. In the real world, you have to work to get the best things. You shouldn't get a diploma from MIT for free, or a Mercedes just because you're a decent person. That reasoning holds true, and I see it a lot here. The problem is that this isn't the real world, and that people don't want it to be. People play games to relax. That's why I chuckle a little when I see someone say "you should have to work for your experience!". In a practical sense, you should. From a gameplay perspective, that's a great way to turn off new players. If I would have known how topheavy Runescape would become, I probably wouldn't have played it past the 8th grade. Now it's all about damage per second and experience for hour. Dungeoneering has made this even worse. It's a dream for endgame seekers but a nightmare for regular players. I'm not trying to turn this into an "efficiency vs fun" debate, and I respect both perspectives. Everyone has their own definition of fun. It takes a great deal of effort and dedication to get this game down to a science, and I respect people for that. For a new or casual player though, it removes the fun from the game and turns it into raw math. That's part of what turned me away. I would look at one of Tip.it's calculators and see the sheer hours that I would need to put into the game in order to enjoy it, and it discouraged me. I'm sure I'll get some "you lack DISCIPLINE!" accusations for saying this, and you'd be right. In terms of how I spend my free time though, I'd like to spend it fully enjoying myself. I have real life things to do that require extensive planning, why would I want that in a game? To a high school student who has AP work due every day and is involves in all sorts of sports and extracurricular activities, how does this game provide them with more fun than Gears or GTA? To a busy college student taking 18 credit hours a semester, why would they invest more of their precious time into a game when there's so many other ways they could blow off steam? Jagex has created an effective high level content system, and there is room for more, but it has turned off casual players. Jagex got a lot of members from Miniclip, probably one of the most casual oriented sites you could possibly advertise on. They haven't gotten new members by catering to their established player base. They've simply maintained, which is not an effective long term strategy. "Screw the casuals," you might say. That's not a good approach to maintain new membership levels, but let's roll with it. There are better hardcore options than Runescape as well. Jagex went for the hardcore and didn't double down, so they could maintain their low to mid leveled players. As a result, they're attracting neither. And now I regret making this post. Looking at the massive wall of debate, it's like I'm building a castle here. I enjoy the discussion though, and I'm eager to hear what people have to say.
  2. Nope, already asked him, he said that the time is not yet ripe for a Liam Neeson-like rampage. Good news though, he did tell me that they will use the money saved from F2P hiscore removal to hire Liam Neeson himself for said rampage. :thumbsup: There is one method of eliminating RWT though, that is bound to work. We just have to wait for real world currencies to devalue enough so that RS gold is actually worth more than RW currency. This won't actually eliminate RWT, but since RS gold will be the better currency, it will be renamed VWT, virtual world trading, at which point Jagex will encourage it but the national tax services will attempt to ban it. Ha ha, no seriously though, all this RWT talk makes me think of all the dicers raging on the O-forums about dicing removal. They all said "don't even talk to me about dicing leading to RWT, Jagex could easily ban RWT's if they wanted to". I always thought in response--then why haven't you been banned yet? *rimshot* It's all jokes and laughs, but it's funny because it's mostly true. Except the Liam Neeson part, MMG would never turn down that glory. I think at a certain point Jagex weighs changes to the game against enforcing the rules. If Jagex could do a RWT nuke like they did a bot nuke, they would, but they wouldn't destroy what remains of player interaction to do so.
  3. I think the point is that Jagex have suggested they have got rid of gold sellers main and mule accounts, therefore they will have to start again and will be unable to farm gold with the new ones because of the restrictions, if thats the case that is a moot point. Most people have seen this as a positive update for that reason. In fact, I have doubts that Jagex wishes to achieve anything substantial from this update. I think they have ulterior motives, although I can't exactly say what those motives are. Most suspicious is that they require you to purchase membership to permanently remove the restrictions. Fair enough, except it doesn't affect the trade flow of gold at all. This update only affects outgoing transactions from new accounts. The vast majority of supply-side RWT is performed by already existing main accounts, who aren't affected by this update. New players can still happily purchase gold, and RWTers can still sell it. If this has little to no effect on the trade flow between these people, then this is just a pointless update. This brings me to my second point. The last two updates were very determined at breaking illegitimate game-play. This update looks like a ham-fisted attempt at curbing the major sources of RWT. And given the fact the last two updates were for the most part, successful in breaking illegitimate game-play, why is it that this one is such a flop? I want to draw attention to one thing: the payment required to remove restrictions. Why is payment even required? If Jagex were truly serious in their attempt, they shouldn't have allowed any exception. Also, why are the restrictions permanently removed upon payment? Why does it only affect outgoing transactions and not both, like the last trade limit? Why has Jagex returned to trade limits after admitting they don't work? What's Jagex expecting from this update? To curb future players who might sell gold? Excuse me, future players are the threat? I thought we were focused on the present! This is honestly what the update sounds like to me (even though that may not be the point). It only affects new players and outgoing transactions -- in other words, rich new players looking to sell gold, who apparently aren't rich enough to buy membership to remove the limits. You see a problem there? In my opinion, I think this only legitimizes real world trading. Jagex's giving all new players a pass once they buy membership. No trade limit in members means they're free to buy and sell gold as they like. It's not so much a barrier to entry (which they should be focusing on) for cheating as opposed to a one-time tax on cheating. If they were sincere about their intentions behind this update, it wasn't done well, in my view. Ulterior motives? They're probably corrupt NWO shills raining down death on average citizens. Occupy Jamflax! But seriously? If you see an ulterior motive to everything Jagex does, then you'll be able to rationalize it too. This is a case of your opinion providing the evidence, not the evidence shaping your opinion. If Jagex didn't allow any exception? They tried that, people quit the game. They allow transactions to go to new F2P accounts because otherwise it would be the downfall of gift giving and of course people setting up their pures. You can buy gold and get it on a new F2P account but how many people do you think will actually do that? Most of the people buying gold are probably 13 year olds leveled in the mid-70s and want to buy the super cool Barrows armor, or whatever. You think they'll start a new account, or do you think they'll say "Screw it" and go play a less inconvenient game? Yes, future players are the threat. Have you forgotten about a recent update that introduces a new theoretical system known as "banning"? It's quite an interesting dohickey, I hope that the Y2K bug doesn't wipe it out. Once the current RWTers are banned, they'll create new accounts. In go the restrictions. Again, you don't seem to be aware that Jagex bans people for RWT. They aren't "free to buy and sell gold". It's just as against the rules as it ever was. I didn't say I was absolutely sure Jagex had ulterior motives. Rather, what I meant was that the way Jagex went about tackling this problem makes it seem, to me at least, that they may have ulterior motives. Even if they did have an ulterior motive, it's not obvious. I'm not going to claim it's profit-related, if they do have one. Virtually everything they do is profit-related. So I can't speculate on that part. At the very least, it suggests Jagex is incompetent. Of all the action they decided to take, it was against new accounts who have no gold to trade, yet have trade limits imposed on them! How does that make sense? It only makes sense if you focus more on the gift-giving aspect rather than the prevention of RWT. That Jagex wished to pacify their player-base by tip-toeing around their precious feelings this way, and leave the gift-giving alone while gamely slapping the gold-seller on the wrist is pathetic. :rolleyes: This is why I said Jagex couldn't have been serious in this particular effort. It does nothing, and you should know that. It'd be more effective if they imposed these restrictions on players most likely to possess large amounts of gold -- high levels and so forth. If they wanted to stop mule accounts, simply impose restrictions on all new accounts for incoming transactions, not outgoing. If they wanted to cut into companies' profits, they could increase the price of membership substantially, and they could make it harder to generate cash in the game. This hasn't happened considering RWT is still thriving even after the bot-nuke. But why would Jagex do that, right? It cuts into their own profits -- players either start quitting more frequently, or are even more compelled to buy gold to ease the grind. And what you've seemed to have missed is that the restrictions are only there for as long as the person doesn't pay. $8.00 for permanent removal of trade limit, and a $1000 profit from selling gold is a good return on investment, no? Also, many, if not most gold-sellers, are P2P. They pay membership anyway, as it yields higher profit margins. How does this tactic cut into their profits again? :unsure: You think RWT companies don't have membership costs included in their expenditures already? Do you remember the stolen credit cards gold-farmers were using? The companies already pay for membership (however possible) so they can generate more gold to satisfy demand. It's better to be efficient and buy membership, make a few million an hour, and then sell that gold, than to remain F2P and struggle for dozens of hours trying to earn the same amount to sell, right? No, I don't think this update will cut into their profits at all. They've been doing this exact thing since inception: buying membership, farming gold, then selling for larger profit. It's how they've been so successful. Efficiency is key to success in business. P2P provides efficient ways to generate gold to sell. F2P, not so much. Again, if Jagex really wants to cut into their profits, they could try raising membership costs. But the way they implemented this tactic -- if that's their goal -- will not achieve this effect. Think about it. In 2007, gold traders got banned pretty frequently, no? Yet they were still populous in member's worlds. Banning them did not have an effect on how well they could afford membership. Keep in mind they were also using stolen credit cards. They bought membership on someone else's dime. Have they stopped doing that now? If not, how can you claim it cuts into their profits, knowing they don't lose cash from it? Bottom line, RWT companies budget for these sorts of expenses. A requirement to buy membership to bypass trade restrictions won't affect them, because paying for membership is integral to their success as a business anyway. Hence why this update is useless. The effect you stated it will have has already been diluted by this trade's very essence. In fact, it makes the business more successful! Access to P2P resources means higher profit margins for the gold-sellers. It's not a deterrent -- it's another reason to get into the business. Oh, and I'm aware that RWT is against the rules. What I meant by free is that while it may technically be against the rules, and Jagex says they're taking action against it, their actions prove the opposite -- no effective action has been taken, as my explanation has demonstrated. Further, players are free to real world trade, for we all have free will. A deterrent however, is the consequence of doing so. But then, where are the consequences? If there are no consequences, no one will feel deterred. I'll grant you that perm banning of offenders is a consequence. However, is this update yet another reason to avoid cheating? No, because no consequences come directly from it. The threat of banning is that deterrent -- not these particular trade limits. No consequences, no effectiveness, not a useful update. Case closed. Not really any evidence of ulterior motives or incompetence. I said in another thread that there's a tendency on this site to look at Jagex as some kind of Disney villain caricature and then respond to every update with that in mind. This essentially says "Jagex may have ulterior motives because they're greedy, but it won't work because they're stupid and dumb. Ha!" You're right, Jagex needs to man up and make the game unplayable to stop RWT! Then you and the 6 other people who still play can sit there and go :thumbsup: until the servers shut down. Impose these restrictions on high level players? This would be terrible for high level gameplay, but you've already stated "[bleep] the game, we have to get these RWTers no matter what!". The difference here is that Jagex wants to, you know, survive as a company so they imposed restrictions on F2P new accounts rather than on established customers. Makes no difference about incoming trade. They can put that gold on a F2P mule and never see it again until they get membership. And when they get membership, Jagex gets money. And like you said "Why would Jagex decrease their own profits?" and I assume the answer you'd like to see here is "because they're retarded, oh yeah and they're evil". Jagex isn't going to decrease their own profits, and I'm fairly sure that they put far more time, effort, and research into this decision than you did criticing it. Oh yeah, speaking of research: why do you make claims about the status of RWT without citing anything and then attempt to act condescendingly to anyone who doesn't agree with the unfounded claim you just made? Am I supposed to assume it's common knowledge? Well personally, I believe it's a widely established trend that RWT is decreasing. It's common knowledge. You didn't know that? :rolleyes: Me neither, because I'm just assuming something to support my argument. Of course they have membership costs included in their budget, but eliminating the usefulness of free accounts means that membership costs would essentially become their budget. They wouldn't be able to operate in the free game with these restrictions, so their costs go up. Do you think they have some kind of vendetta against Runescape and Jagex, or do you think they will move on to a free or more popular game where they could make more money? Jagex is trying to remove the incentives to RWT in game without giving their game a shotgun blast to the face like they did by removing free trade. I really, really tend to doubt that most RWT companies primarily utilize P2P accounts. F2P resource gathering is decent money and requires less attention and startup effort on the part of the RWTer. Get 40ish fishing, go get lobsters. 60 Woodcutting, go get Yews. The exception is probably dragon bones but the odds of being killed at Green Dragons are probably greater than dying at a fishing spot or a Yew tree. Almost every other source is packed with slayers and mid-level money makers and when every spot at in Taverly Dungeon may be occupied, you will always be able to cut down a Yew tree without considerable world hopping. F2P gold gathering is reliable and is relatively simple to set up and maintain (although more difficult with botting now gone). It's also, well, free. No company gives up free money. With bots gone, P2P tasks such as the Sq'uirk garden (probably spelled that wrong) become less attractive. Boss hunting as a method of moneymaking is too luck based and has a much steeper learning curve for a company that wants to crank out money. You can teach a guy to fish lobsters in all of 5 minutes, but boss hunting requires more equipment, more knowledge, and more experience. There will likely be early failures, and even then the millions aren't as guaranteed. Losses are possible, which are highly unlikely with F2P moneymaking. Illegally using other people's credit cards is a way that RWT companies have paid for membership in the past, but as previously mentioned this would drastically increase costs. They would have to steal more credit cards and attract more attention to themselves as a company, allowing Jagex to pursue them more effectively through legal means. The selling of in game cash probably can't be pursued but there's little doubt that credit card fraud is. Let them steal more credit cards - it'll get them more attention and bring them down faster. You don't really have any examples of the F2P-P2P makeup of RWT companies or any evidence that Jagex hasn't taken action against them beyond "I said so" and using the " :rolleyes: " emoticon because that means you're even more righter. There are still RWT companies, yes, but that's to be expected: people still want gold. There will always be RWT companies as long as people still want gold and are willing to pay the price. This update inconveniences sellers and leads to higher prices. People buying with their parent's credit cards won't care, but this will price people out of the market especially in combination with the bot nuke. Again, the "DeVry Institute of Facts Pulled Out of Asses" is not a credible backup for any argument. Expecting all RWT companies to be wiped away in a glorious Jagex firestorm is foolish, and you may as well ask Mod MMG to personally go on a Liam Neeson-style rampage and wipe out the RWT companies himself. I'd agree that this doesn't affect individual accounts, but there's no real way to do that. Catching 100% of any offender is impossible. What I see in this post is just more of the same "Damn it Jamflax why aren't you bombing the houses of everyone who breaks the rules". They can't catch people without violating internet privacy (which I doubt a games company could justify legally) so they make it more difficult for them to operate. You may not see any consequences, but you probably aren't buying or selling gold. The bot update was pretty effective and the only consequences brought on bot users were legal threats. Why is an update ineffective if it doesn't murder the offenders?
  4. Honestly I'd come back and play today if my friends did as well. As of right now though, most of them have moved on too. All of my friends have an Xbox and I have much more fun playing, say, Halo with a friend than I do playing Runescape by myself. Sure it's "massive multiplayer", but it's like you're playing with thousands of strangers. People who I met randomly would be like "friends?" when I had all of a two second conversation with them. I'd get messages later saying "halp oddment/tupaq i got scammed, gimme the loot gimme the loot". The community, for me, takes away from my enjoyment of the game. The content itself I have no issue with. I actually got a month of members a while ago to play through WGS, and another to try and make a final push to regain my old quest cape. All of those times, however, were when I was home on break and didn't have Xbox Live. If I had the choice between 3 months of Runescape and 3 months of Xbox Live, I'd be playing Gears 3 over Runescape every time because my friends would play it with me.
  5. If I remember right at RuneFest they discussed bigger changes to the interface. I guess this is just setting it up.
  6. I think the point is that Jagex have suggested they have got rid of gold sellers main and mule accounts, therefore they will have to start again and will be unable to farm gold with the new ones because of the restrictions, if thats the case that is a moot point. Most people have seen this as a positive update for that reason. In fact, I have doubts that Jagex wishes to achieve anything substantial from this update. I think they have ulterior motives, although I can't exactly say what those motives are. Most suspicious is that they require you to purchase membership to permanently remove the restrictions. Fair enough, except it doesn't affect the trade flow of gold at all. This update only affects outgoing transactions from new accounts. The vast majority of supply-side RWT is performed by already existing main accounts, who aren't affected by this update. New players can still happily purchase gold, and RWTers can still sell it. If this has little to no effect on the trade flow between these people, then this is just a pointless update. This brings me to my second point. The last two updates were very determined at breaking illegitimate game-play. This update looks like a ham-fisted attempt at curbing the major sources of RWT. And given the fact the last two updates were for the most part, successful in breaking illegitimate game-play, why is it that this one is such a flop? I want to draw attention to one thing: the payment required to remove restrictions. Why is payment even required? If Jagex were truly serious in their attempt, they shouldn't have allowed any exception. Also, why are the restrictions permanently removed upon payment? Why does it only affect outgoing transactions and not both, like the last trade limit? Why has Jagex returned to trade limits after admitting they don't work? What's Jagex expecting from this update? To curb future players who might sell gold? Excuse me, future players are the threat? I thought we were focused on the present! This is honestly what the update sounds like to me (even though that may not be the point). It only affects new players and outgoing transactions -- in other words, rich new players looking to sell gold, who apparently aren't rich enough to buy membership to remove the limits. You see a problem there? In my opinion, I think this only legitimizes real world trading. Jagex's giving all new players a pass once they buy membership. No trade limit in members means they're free to buy and sell gold as they like. It's not so much a barrier to entry (which they should be focusing on) for cheating as opposed to a one-time tax on cheating. If they were sincere about their intentions behind this update, it wasn't done well, in my view. Ulterior motives? They're probably corrupt NWO shills raining down death on average citizens. Occupy Jamflax! But seriously? If you see an ulterior motive to everything Jagex does, then you'll be able to rationalize it too. This is a case of your opinion providing the evidence, not the evidence shaping your opinion. Why don't you see that this decreases the attractiveness of Runescape as a venue for RWT? Sure you pay membership and then the restrictions are gone, but you can also pay nothing and go sell currency in another game. It comes down to a really simple business decision. If Jagex didn't allow any exception? They tried that, people quit the game. They allow transactions to go to new F2P accounts because otherwise it would be the downfall of gift giving and of course people setting up their pures. You can buy gold and get it on a new F2P account but how many people do you think will actually do that? Most of the people buying gold are probably 13 year olds leveled in the mid-70s and want to buy the super cool Barrows armor, or whatever. You think they'll start a new account, or do you think they'll say "Screw it" and go play a less inconvenient game? Yes, future players are the threat. Have you forgotten about a recent update that introduces a new theoretical system known as "banning"? It's quite an interesting dohickey, I hope that the Y2K bug doesn't wipe it out. Once the current RWTers are banned, they'll create new accounts. In go the restrictions. Again, you don't seem to be aware that Jagex bans people for RWT. They aren't "free to buy and sell gold". It's just as against the rules as it ever was.
  7. Well some people on this site are opposed to everything Jagex does, so no you're probably not the only one against it. And no, "burn in hell Jagex you greedy corporate shills" isn't "feedback". The new restrictions cut into the profit margin of RWT companies by making them buy a new membership every time they get banned. Once the old F2P RWT accounts get cleared out, the new restricted ones will be all that remains. If the RWT company doesn't stop, then they're paying for an obscene amount of memberships. Oh no! Not really sure where you're going with this. Let's say the main gold seller puts some cash on a F2P mule. Awesome. Now he wants to get the reserves back from the mule. He can't, because F2P cannot give more than 25k anymore. Then they can trade it to another F2P account which will also be unable to get rid of more than 25k at a time. Or they can buy membership, but more likely they will go find a free game with fewer barriers to RWT. It's just good business sense. Jagex is making it a hassle for RWT groups so eventually they will go mess with someone else's game. Why isn't stopping RWT on new accounts important? If an existing RWT account gets banned, they make a new one. Those new accounts will now have the trading restrictions. This cuts down on the ability of RWT companies to just come right back. Sure they can pay membership but if they're a major group they'll probably have several accounts working. I don't think Jagex would be entirely upset with several people paying $6 a month to go get banned. What's an extra $8 to someone who deals in real money? That's $8 out of their profits when there's plenty of other free games they could RWT with. If this succeeds, Jagex just knocked themselves out of the competition. If for some reason RWT companies would rather take a hit to their profits to keep dealing with Runescape, then Jagex gets money from them. The effects won't be there at first but once more RWT accounts get banned, RWTers will turn to new accounts and be unable to give the gold to the buyers without paying for a membership. Personally I don't enjoy playing Runescape anymore and it's not because of Jagex, it's because of the community. It got a major kick to the face with the introduction of the Grand Exchange and once most of my friends moved on to other games I was pretty much by myself in a game where the community alternates between 10 year old pures and 19 year old metagame devotees. If half the people I started playing this game with were still here, I would probably be there too. Others don't like to accept the reality that they've moved on from the game. I could make thread after thread complaining about the Grand Exchange but I don't. That's the state of the game. I don't like it, I take my business elsewhere. But that's an inconceivable thought to some people. They're the ones who would rather stage an Occupy McDonalds protest rather than go to Burger King. It's a simple reality that regardless of how many guides you wrote or your total level that you are one customer to Jagex; no more important to them than the level 32 who just got members so he can play Pest Control. You don't get to determine the direction of the game regardless of how important you are on a fansite. The updates you rant and rave about saying that Jagex has ruined the game because they're corrupt NWO shills? Most people won't care. An example I like to use is the free trade removal. That outraged everyone in Runescape because it decreased the quality of play across all levels and shot two of the biggest groups (PKers and merchanters) in the foot. On this site the criticism was better worded and there were even some who thought it was a good idea, but it was still there. Now let's look at other updates. The F2P hiscores removal affects a small amount of people. It will mess with the obsessive pure F2P types and the occasional PKer, but the wide majority of this game will just keep going. This new forum? I saw some guy say he was quiting over text. Most of the players probably don't even use the forums. I know I didn't once the GE came out. This is a site for some of the bigger Runescape fans and as such every update, whether it be a high level quest with a mediocre ending or another interface change, will draw huge amounts of criticism because almost everyone can access that content. A level 76 won't care about what glitch happened in Ritual of the Mahjarrat but you'll see here that it shows Jagex no longer checks the quality of their game, and also plays rugby using African orphans and kittens as the ball. Runescape is on the decline, and it's not because you don't like it anymore. What alternatives were there to Runescape back in the early 2000s? It was pretty much this, WoW, and a whole bunch of different games on a lower level. With the advent of League of Legends and other better free online games, Runescape's player base will gradually decrease. It's just not as attractive of a game as it was before.
  8. Hey look guys, the hiscores update made Jagex lose all of their fanbase. :P I like the new website and I can't see the forums yet so I'll figure out what they've done there eventually. I think this means the end of RS Wiki though. The trade update was clearly very well thought out and doesn't take anything away from existing players. Once the existing RWTers are banned, it should have more of an effect.
  9. Not really. This happens on Tip.it every time an update comes out that people dislike. 65% of its opponents say "I quit! I quit!" and the other 35% say "Wow, I'm glad I quit. Jagex sucks." (Source: DeVry Institute School of Made Up Statistics) And yet the same people come back update after update. I saw one guy in here say "I may unsubscribe for the third time". Yeah, fight the power...on second thought the power's pretty cool...no wait, I have to fight them...no wait, Dominion Tower! It's a fickle, fickle bunch of people who at the end of the day will rail on Jagex for any update they do and then log right back on, kill Nex, and hand Jagex their $6 a month. There's no trend here, just talk. Personally I disagree with the removal of F2P hiscores. Jagex doesn't really gain anything from doing it and it bothers a lot of people. However, let's face it: few if any of you will actually quit from this update. The ones who are outraged and don't quit because of it are the ones who already quit but still enjoy hanging around Runescape forums bashing Jagex. You're entitled to your opinion but it's the same stuff every single time. I'd respect the whole "vote with your dollars" concept if anyone actually did it. While you may feel clever for taking the predictably "correct" stance, if they did actually leave like honest people, there wouldn't be any game left for you to come back to, so I think tempting fate is pretty much the dumb thing to do here. You may feel clever for trying to start your post off condescendingly, but the stance against "the man" isn't always the right one and everyone who doesn't agree with you isn't a Jagex shill. If they left like honest people? The game would go on. The ego on this site is hysterical. You genuinely think that the people who rant and rave at every update are the ones who are "saving the game"? I can't think of one update that was reversed due to minority complaints on fansites. It takes major upheaval to get things done, not just anyone with acceptable grammar and maxed skills who says "Jagex is evil". Biggest update that was ever undone was the free trade/wildy removal, and that was due to widespread backlash, not the complaints on this and other sites. I'm still a little surprised at that. "IF THEY LEFT THE ENTIRE GAME WOULD END!" Come on. They pay the same amount of money as everyone else, their suggestions go (for the most part) ignored, and someone who plays off and on over any given update is not a harbinger of change. You agree with them and generally they make their points with great grammar and organization along with respect for other members. That does not make them special in Jagex's eyes. (other guy) And people who disagree with you about the hiscores in an online game make you sick? That kind of makes me sick actually. You're aware that people are entitled to their own opinions, and they may disagree with your own? It is a terrible update but why does this mean that Jagex is an evil satan creature hellbent on destroying a game that makes them millions of dollars? You all like to assume that they're evil idiots, but who's the idiot for characterizing an entire company as (essentially) an incompetent Disney villain? That can't be idiotic; it disagrees with Jagex so therefore it's a well reasoned assumption. And for the record, I haven't paid membership for several months now. Meanwhile, you're "semi-retired". Go get em, viva la semi-revolution! I'm not a Jagex loyalist, which is why I don't pay them money. I apologize if I seem a little annoyed, I'm not trying to start anything with anybody but the belief that anyone who doesn't hate the establishment is an idiot is ruining essentially every topic of debate these days.
  10. It's trivial to you, but there was some very legitimate outrage over it on this site and others. While everyone has the ability to use the hiscores, how many F2P will actually be that concerned about an update that doesn't take away in game content? I'd imagine some PKers who want to look up stats and of course the people going for 200M F2P experience. It's an impressive feat and it's a shame that it's being ruined by this update, but the majority of people won't care so why should Jagex? They get something like 98% of their revenue through subscription, and people subscribe for gameplay. Jagex keeps cranking out decent updates so people keep buying membership. People become members for quests, or for that shiny Dragon armor they saw. Or for new bosses. Hell, I became a member for a cat. I was a noob then, but I doubt anyone will become a member solely for hiscores. Again, this is really a petty thing for Jagex to do, but it won't piss off many people outside the forums. I decided the same thing. I was at that mid-high level point where I could either go for the endgame content or quit, and I chose to quit. It had nothing to do with Jagex. My friends had stopped playing long ago, the people I met in game had moved on, and continuing to play would have meant boredom or becoming incredibly good at something I had no interest in. I stopped playing. I don't play games in general as much now, but the ones I play I enjoy more than RS. That's understandable, you have an investment in the site beyond Runescape and that's worth staying for. This wiki is worrying but a wiki cannot provide quality discussion in the same way that a forum can, especially not Jagex's forums. People won't look to Tip.it for quest guides anymore, but I believe forums like these will always provide a higher quality of training advice and discussion. It's also a Monday at midday, when most of Runescape's player base in the US is in school. I'm fairly sure 26,000 people didn't quit the game because they couldn't access the hiscores anymore. I don't consider them valid. "Fix it Jamflax I lost my barrows" is never a valid argument, but it's what made up most of the Rants forum on the RSOF except for trolls and the occasional well-written post that didn't know about fansites. Jagex accepts that these people make up a lot of their game and will listen to their complaints however lame they are. Look at the death updates recently. This went in place while a well-written Archaeology thread sits ignored on this forum. Look at gravestones still being in the game. Jagex knows that the average high level player who went through the effort to make a well made suggestion will be more likely to sigh and bear it than a pissed off 13 year old who will cancel their membership and go play Xbox. If the masses don't care, then Jagex doesn't care. I also don't see how Jagex has created a demonic hell by removing the F2P hiscores and demodding two people. Demonic hell kind of suggests demons, fire, spikes, and bad things. At the very least the game would have to be unplayable, which it isn't. It is a bad update, but exaggerating its effects only hurts the valid arguments against it. Jagex could ignore the masses and listen to the well reasoned arguments and suggestions, but then the masses would leave. Jagex gets 98% of their revenue from subscriptions, they wouldn't want the masses to leave. It would be the best community of any game most likely, for the month or so that Jagex could sustain their company off of 1000 or so players. I don't think Jagex's updates affect that perception of Runescape. Maybe the style of the game has - below average graphics, boring grinding gameplay, designed for younger people - but not the updates. Jagex is responsible for that but the people who still play love them for it. The community is still the determining factor. It's funnier for an outsider to mock a 12 year old ranting at the guy who he is trying to kill in Edgeville than for them to mock Jagex removing the highscores. The Grand Exchange, for me, kind of set the stage for me to quit. I loved trading and meeting people, and now you pretty much have to join a clan or play with friends. My friends, along with most other people's friends, don't play. It was a great update, but the change in the community from then on became intolerable just as the change in the community in the Miniclip days made Runescape into a laughingstock. If there's one thing this site loves, it's Runescape's grinding gameplay. I realize I may take some flak for that by not accepting that it's fun to spend a year or two in a game getting 99 in every skill, but I stand by it. To outsiders, Runescape's boring grind is what makes it an unattractive game, especially when so many other options are available. I agree, there's plenty of games that can beat Jagex now, but not to the extent that they could draw away most of their playerbase. Some people may never change games: go to the Future Updates forum and look at all the lore obsessed people. Do you think they could move on to another game where they can't psychoanalyze Mahjarrat? Others just enjoy the feel of the game. Some people are completionists and can't bear the thought of leaving it. Plenty of games are far far better than Runescape and have been for a while, but Jagex still stands tall. There's too many different reasons people play. It's alright. You've still made pretty good points.
  11. [/hide] If there is already this much hate and disapproval on this thread I can safely say it could only be worse in other forums. I understand how every single update has everyone yelling ragequit and being glad they quit (not surprised, Jagex is a shit company anyway), but hot damn. If Jagex doesn't do anything to counter this they will lose their loyal fanbase AND their reputation. Hello? Do you want your game to die within the next year? :rolleyes: Jagex has always been stupid, but this is honestly the stupidest move ever. This is made worse with demodding people that actually speak up and having the most awful customer support in the 21st century. I wonder what Anon would do... oh wait, Jagex is soooooo out of their league for Anon to even give a damn. <_< Also mentioned a while back... That's not even the half of it. But stupid quote limit. There's hate and disapproval on every forum. If people don't care or approve, they won't go out of their way to make a statement. You don't see protests for a government doing a good job, do you? Again, Jagex has "lost their loyal fanbase AND their reputation" with about every other update since the game started. Dwarven Army Axe? There goes Jagex's reputation. Remove free trade? Jagex is now the devil. Add free trade back? Bots destroy the game, Jagex will be dead within the hour. New HP bar? Game is ruined Jagex, I quit. And every time one of these updates happens, people say the exact same things along with "it's not like the other times!". It is. Most members will find something else to be annoyed about and hand Jagex their $5. I'm glad to see that you're listed as retired, which means you have the courage to back up saying "I quit", but why still spend time on a game forum criticising the game? Most people in that position say "I love the game too much to see it get ruined and I want to see it changed for the better" but like you said "Jagex has always been stupid" and "Jagex is a shit company anyway". How did they make a game that captured so much of your time then? If they were a stupid shit company then they wouldn't be able to provide a product that people enjoy. They have poor customer support, as do most other large companies. They make decisions that not everyone likes, as do most other large companies. Is your definition of a "shit company" one that cannot flawlessly provide a perfect service, talk to you like a true friend, and make decisions that all of their thousands of subscribers agree with? I think you'll find fault with every company then. Jagex has consistently turned a profit and paid out tons of dividends. Financially, they're no slouch. But of course that's because they sold their soul for money right? Not according to the 58,000 people online right now compared to the few dozen complaining on the forums. Except perhaps with Free Trade Removal, there's never been an update that the majority of the population of the game hated. Do you know how you know? Kids. If something truly gets under the skin of the entire playerbase, raging angry 13 year olds descend upon the forum with the all caps rants that possibly originated the phrase "Jamflax". I remember that even during the worst updates, the biggest concerns on the rants forums were lagging and losing items and cannons at rock crabs stopping people from training their pures. Everything I've seen about this update is reasoned discussion over the point of removing the F2P high scores, which is also what I've seen with almost every other update. There's no massive uprising against Jagex for not letting F2P see high scores. Point to whatever poll you want saying "but 86% of people disapprove of it!", but of course they disapprove. They're in a thread about an update they dislike, aren't they? I sincerely doubt a majority of Runescape's population supports this update but I'd be willing to bet a majority doesn't know and/or doesn't care. It's a pointless, petty update with questionable reasoning. That much we agree on. But until it affects the immature majority of Runescape, Jagex will not lose a great deal of subscribers. The subscribers they do lose? They're generally the big time ones. Community icons. I saw you wrote two AoW guides on F2P skills. You're a bigger contributer to the community than your standard Xx1hitnoobsxX, and I think you're aware of that. You're a smarter than average guy about the game and assume correctly that you can speak with considerable authority about it on this site. The problem with that is that the wider community does not care. Do you think a majority of Runescape has ever been to this site for something besides a quest guide? It's a downfall of modern society that the well reasoned voices go unheard by the masses, but it's a reality. For all the logical reasons against this update, it doesn't matter to Jagex if the masses don't care. The unmoddings are a seperate topic that has a seperate thread, but seeing as how I already have a wall going here I may as well talk about it. Here again is the problem of how many people actually care. Tip.it cares, as do other big fansites and possibly some of the RSOF. Realistically? Most people never knew Jiblix or Ken. Their demodding does not affect public opinion of Jagex outside of fansites and the few on the RSOF who witnessed it. Anonymous wouldn't do anything to Jagex. They think Runescape is a joke. Leave this site and go to any non-Runescape fansite. The reaction is usually "lolrunescape". Runescape is irrelevent outside this fansite. Is it because Jamflax removed the F2P highscores and removed the wilderness and joined Moammar Gaddafi and Saddam Hussein in stepping on kittens? No, because of the community. Runescape's community attracts quite a lovely crowd. The type that watch MLG as an actual sport and worship PKers. The 13 year old kids who buy gold with their parent's credit card and yell into the mic on Xbox Live. On the other hand, there are people who take the game very seriously. To the rest of the internet, who probably moved on to different games near the start of high school, those people are just as comical in spite of their maturity. Anonymous, if it even cares about Runescape at all, probably laughs at it. Runescape will last as long as there is a steady supply of players. If the game dies, it will be from outside competition. Eventually someone will find to beat Jagex at their own game. The high level players will get bored of Runescape and go play something more challenging with more endgame content. The lower level players will find something easier. And the mid level players? They'll look at the gap between new players and veterans and quit on the spot. The wider part of the player base is unconcerned with criticisms about these updates, however well written they are.
  12. Not really. This happens on Tip.it every time an update comes out that people dislike. 65% of its opponents say "I quit! I quit!" and the other 35% say "Wow, I'm glad I quit. Jagex sucks." (Source: DeVry Institute School of Made Up Statistics) And yet the same people come back update after update. I saw one guy in here say "I may unsubscribe for the third time". Yeah, fight the power...on second thought the power's pretty cool...no wait, I have to fight them...no wait, Dominion Tower! It's a fickle, fickle bunch of people who at the end of the day will rail on Jagex for any update they do and then log right back on, kill Nex, and hand Jagex their $6 a month. There's no trend here, just talk. Personally I disagree with the removal of F2P hiscores. Jagex doesn't really gain anything from doing it and it bothers a lot of people. However, let's face it: few if any of you will actually quit from this update. The ones who are outraged and don't quit because of it are the ones who already quit but still enjoy hanging around Runescape forums bashing Jagex. You're entitled to your opinion but it's the same stuff every single time. I'd respect the whole "vote with your dollars" concept if anyone actually did it.
  13. It's alright. When you really believe in something it's hard to look at it objectively. However corny this sounds, it's better than not believing in anything. You're right, time will tell. Just by their attitudes thus far I don't think they're heading back down the path of gnomecopters, but we'll have to see.
  14. No one's forcing them to play. Chances are if people aren't committed to playing for whatever reason, there's no reason to expect those same people to keep playing, and so any glitch that incidentally clashes with the enjoyment of their game-play is irrelevant because they're not guaranteed customers and thus don't comprise the core of the player-base. You can't please everyone. That's all your statement proves. QA isn't omniscient nor omnipresent. In fact, I disagree with you that they aren't doing their job. What do you think their job is? To test something only before its release, and if it fails upon release, it's their fault? If they weren't doing their job, those patches could *never* be applied to the broken content after the fact. They are doing they're job -- they're assuring quality by maintaining it when needed in addition to checking quality is up to expectations before release. You can't expect QA to know everything wrong about an update they're testing. Any glitch that slips by them is quickly patched up. When have they failed to do this? Oh no, of course no one is forcing anyone to play, anyone who just dislikes the ways how the company is run today, or just can't play a piece of content like it is intended to work, may freely leave, jagex-fanboys and bots will take their places, no problem. Sorry, but if they don't even check if you can get chompy hats, when it is a special update to GIVE the hats, than there is clearly something wrong. I don't think that's what he meant. For every one person who quits over chompy hats or an unplayable quest, there's plenty who will happily pay for the hundreds of other pieces of content. There's others who will complain about the glitches but still pay Jagex. His first sentence really was kind of silly so I can see why you reacted as such. In regard to your previous point, don't you think that someone who plays more would be more affected by a glitch than someone who plays less? Someone who plays all the time will have higher levels and be more on top of recent updates. They'll be the ones mad at the new quest that they went to on the day of release. Someone who plays less frequently will either have something else to do with their limited playing time or they will get to the quest later in the week (at the earliest) when the bugs would have usually been fixed. The glitches usually are fixed by the time a less active player gets around to them. It would affect the more active players as opposed to the less active ones and I think that's reflected on this site. Why they take on 4 projects that will hit them in the payroll at all? I think they expected Stellar Dawn would be done by now. Didn't they say a few months ago that they had a semi-finished project and scrapped it and started over? I remember one unannounced MMO and a Transformers MMO that Hasbro wanted. Maybe Hasbro offered them a decent advance? I don't know for sure but it would make sense.
  15. Huh. I was unaware of it. How are you sure they used the no clip glitch? Wikipedia says it was patched in 08. Not the most reliable source, but it's a source. QA isn't doing their job anymore? If they weren't doing their job anymore, then the glitches would be bigger than the little ones you mentioned. That aside, there would be fewer glitches if Jagex was given more time to do an update.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.