I'd disagree with the animal part. There never has, nor will there ever be, any moral implication in killing an animal. Don't you think murdering a human is a completly different matter to killing an unmindful animal? Of course, unnecessary cruelty to animals is wrong, but there's nothing bad about being a carnavore :mrgreen: . No moral implication for killing an animal? Hell no, I hope you dont have a pet you barbarian. Nothing bad abou being a carnivore if you dont kill the animal yourself, or if it was breeded to be killed. But you cant kill an animal in cold blood, an animal that has a life to lead. Those damn vegitarians are all murders. When a cow or chicken is killed for eating it is at the prime of its life, its all gonna go downhill from there, with the aging and the rotting from inside out and the whatnot. When a soya field is harvested, rabbits, voles, mice and all sorts who live in the field and brutally murdered in combine harvesters. I think a quick shot to the head beats hearing your bones get all tangled and ripped apart. I think your right, Not even giving the animal a chance is immoral. Thats why its illegal to bait animals while huntin because its not giving the animals a fair chance.