Derckert82

1. Banning bots is inefficient. Even if they paid people to ban them, it wouldn't make much of a dent, and it's not cost effective. 2. Comparing excel macro's to the bots of today is like comparing a hatchet to a chainsaw. These bots interface directly with the client. 3. Programmers are not sought after for their "hacker-like" abilities, but rather their ability to...program. I was hired as software/hardware engineer because A) I received good grades in college from a prestigious university with a bachelors in computer engineering...B) I am a hard worker, I show up to work on time, and I get shit done in a pretty efficient/timely manner...C) See other skills that land you a job (organizational skills, communication skills, ability to work on a team...etc.) Jagex's bot nuke was fixed by Jacmob within a month, and I have heard that another botting site has recently fixed it and is up and running. I'm sure "optimus" is real and will once again break the bots for who knows how long, but the fact is, the only way(that has been effective so far) to break the bots is to make creative changes to the client that require a complete overhaul of the bot interfaces. The bigger fact of the matter is that runescape is a game...a game aimed at 13-20 year olds...and in that genre, you will have people finding ways to cheat. I'm not saying that Jagex should lie down and take it, but if you have a strong hatred for bots, the sooner you understand that their existence is inevitable, the better off you'll be. 1. I said as much. I said that Jagex has probably put some effort into determining whether or not it's worth it and that it probably wasn't. 2. I kinda said that too. I said my skills were ancient. My first programming language was FORTRAN 4. Ever hear of keypunch cards? 3. I know for a fact that there are organizations (especially the government) that look for hackers and pay them extra to work for them instead of against them. You are correct that programmers are not sought for their hacker abilities. I didn't say that. I said that people with hacker-like abilities are sought after. I don't know any hackers, but I can't imagine a hacker not knowing how programming works before becoming one. I have a lot of respect for programmers. I studied several FORTRAN languages, Pascal, Cobalt, Basic, gobasic, basic-basic, C, and machine language. Programming languages were changing and evolving so fast that I couldn't keep up and just dropped it because C+ and C++ came out. I didn't see an end to the revolving door in programming. I decided to stay in electronics. At any rate, I find the bots a nuisance and an annoyance more than anything. It becomes difficult to train and to have fun sometimes because of them. I am not running around my living room pulling my hair out like a teen who just had two too many energy drinks. I'm a father with six kids who's been around long enough to just sigh and roll my eyes at the inconvenience they provide me (bots, that is, lol). The kids are a different story, especially now with some in college, *sigh*. Like I said, in the end, Jagex is at least making an attempt at trying to control the insanity even if it is just a little bit. Anything is better than nothing.

Bots are definitely a real pain in the...well, you know. At any rate, There are many tedious jobs in the world. Many of which are deal with tasks such as asssembly line manufacturing and the like. I'm sure that "bot-hunting" would not be too overly difficult to deal with since there are so many different types. Having several people assigned to identify the bot programs and then a few others that use that information to find the bots in the different worlds would still keep things interesting. Especially if they rotate who do the reserch and who does the thumping. I'm no expect on macros by any means. My programming skills are ancient (over 20 years ago *cough*). Never really did anything with macros outside of an excel spreadsheet. That being said, I'm sure that there must be ways to change things in the programming of Runescape that can be done behind the scenes to aid in isolating bots. I have confidence in Jagex's ability to eliminate bots. I have less confidence in their desire to actually do it. I go to what many others have said..."MONEY". It's all about the cost. The cost for operations is high. Especially on the technical side. Programmers and the such are a high demand career field. Even more so if you have hacker-like abilities. It's not publicized that way, but the best people to hire to do battle with hackers and program manipulators are the very people who do it. Sounds ironic, but it's the truth. Then there is the consideration of additional costs to either hire additional personnel or reduced effectiveness of personnel in other areas who would have to take a percentage of their time to dedicate to the area of bot control. I'm sure Jagex has done several cost analysis studies to determine whether any of these options or others are worth the effort. They may be better off doing what they did not that long ago and collect known data that is provided by the public and then make a mass sweep of bots. It would last for a short time while new bot programs are designed and implemented, but at least it would show a symbolic gesture to the users of the game that Jagex is at least watching with some limited interest what is happening with the game.

Thanks for accepting our offer to war RT. We have had difficulty for the past two months getting anyone to war us. We started posting here but were getting turned down so we started trying to arrange them ahead of time but still had trouble. Of course, we are realizing that we should still be declaring here regardless according to Dbzruler72 so that it shows our efforts. Maybe we will be able to arrange a matched opts war when more of our people will be able to attend (like me who <3 wars! :thumbsup: ) I give my clan mates great credit for stepping up against the odds to do battle. =D> We don't like backing down when there is still breathe in us to fight. We live and die for our clan. 8-)

There was confusion at the start of the war. GODZ pulled 23 to our 20 initially but we had a few members log in just as we were getting ready to accept challenge and the warlord didn't see them and they arrived a little late to start. However, one of their people DC'd as well as one of our leaders who was ranging and we agreed to restart since we both appeared to have 23 people. Then when we reentered, the roles were reversed. There was a DC on GODZ part as Vindication was getting down to 20. Then we had to drop one more. So we were 19v19 in the end afterall. It was an epic battle between our two clans as have been all our fun battles in the past couple of years. Vindication got a quick KO and managed to stay 1-2 people up on GODZ until we lost Gamma173 (combat 123 and a ranger) and Y2J273 (combat 123 and warlord) and they lost a member to DC as well. The number of people had become even but a few of the Vindication members that were left were ones who were being attacked while the two who DC'd were still pretty full on food. The war raged on and it was 5v5 then I was killed when their member jesus noticed that I wasn't healing and had only 6hp left. He and red_wizzzared both attacked me. Then it was 5v4 in GODZ favor. After a while longer, they got another kill and it was 5v3. Then it was 4v3 and then it dragged out for a bit before GODZ finally was able to claim victory with 4 people remaining. It was a great battle and people were very honorable on both sides. As a clan member and staff representative of Vindication for the past two years, this goes down as one of our best overall challenges from start to finish. Hopefully, the next time we do battle it will be a more clean battle without the confusion in the beginning and the loss of members during the war. Our two clans have pretty evenly split our wars for well over a year now and are evenly matched which is why they are a great adversary for Vindication. Great Job GODZ! =D> You guys pulled it off but we will get you next time. :thumbsup:

Swearing is seen as one of the ways to define who you are as a person. Not only that, but in a clan chat channel, it always gives a representation of how people perceive your clan. If people are dropping f-bombs everywhere in a conversation and various other curse words, then people are likely to think your clan may be to immature or out of control and even lacks respect whether it is true or not. :-# We had issues with a couple people who were dropping F-bombs every other word along with other words in a heated argument around the time a few people came in during a recruiting campaign and they left shortly after and vowed to tell others that our clan was out of control because of the conduct demostrated by the people on our channel. The difficult part to overcome was that the two people who were swearing weren't even in the clan at the time of the offense. #-o This changed our philsophy about language on our channel. We permanently banned the F-bomb and discourage other swearing though it still happens. We have IRC conduct rules that we try to adhere to with some leniency. We do tell people, both members of clan and non, that so long as they are on our channel they will hold themselves to the ideals our clan holds. For our chat channel, that is mainly respect for others and their feelings and beliefs. No flaming is permitted, but swearing is allowed so long as it does not get out of control. If it seems like it is, you get a warning to calm down, then kicked if you fail to comply. :shame:

Whether you join runescape to skill or to war and pk, most of you joined to have fun. Part of this fun for many was to work hard, raise levels, earn money, and spread your wealth. I have met so many people in runescape who were selfless and would donate items and gold to friends who needed that little extra help with a skill or quest or who had been hacked or died. Sometimes you find yourself standing in Lumbridge offering ÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¢â¬Åstart-upÃÆââââ¬Å¡Ã¬ÃâÃ

I am a clan leader and the recent updates for the wilderness are just mind-boggling! Jagex just killed clans!! I've had to cancel our wars against other clans, practice wars to prepare, and PK trips. We had fun events like snowball fights, range free-for-alls, and binding races. Those are all gone as well! There is no more PKing as a clan or having awesome big wars like the massive multi-clan war we just did with tip.it. Not to mention, no drop parties for friends or giving things to friends when they have been hacked or killed. For one, I give my kids stuff whenever their character dies or gets scammed. Sometimes I lend stuff to a friend and then get my payback later on. Or how about if you want to help someone out with a skill. One of my friends who had 99 fletching and wanted 99 magic gave me 20K yew longs to fletch for him and then he hialched them. I got the excellent fletching experience, he saved time and got his magic experience and money for is investment. All of the comradery stuff is mostly gone with this update. It is almost an individual game now. BTW, who ever donates or gives stuff under 3K???? The LEAST Jagex could have done was make the value more reasonable! 3K is ridiculous unless you are a new player and it seems like a million in your eyes. The bounty hunter and clan wars would have been GREAT mini-games! I've already done them and they are cool for that. But to REPLACE the wilderness with them is CRAP!! Half of my clan is thinking of quitting because everything they ever strived for is being taken away. So from a clan of nearly 100 members, I am going to be left with about 40 or less unless things change which I don't see happening. The conspiracy theory for all of this is that Jagex is setting everyone up to quit RS and join their new games they are coming out with next year. The problem with that is that people are going to be so pissed off with Jagex, they won't even bother! Why offer yourself up to be messed with twice? The Grand Exchange is mediocre because of the small spread on items that limit what you can sell them for. So what if someone wants to try and sell a whip for 3 million or a magic log for 50K. It's not like someone is likely to buy it. Costs of items in real worlds and pixel worlds alike ahve always been determined by supply and demand. Why put these kinds of restrictions on the GE? No clan wars and losing or gaining rune sets No PKing and getting good loot No helping others in need No friendly drop parties No control over your own wealth No fun For me, I will wait and hope for changes. But only time will determine the fate of Runescape for the masses of clans and wilderness lovers.