Veritas94

It does need to be changed. Magic and ranged both suffer penalties to their ATTACK BONUS by wearing plate but melee does not suffer penalties to its ATTACK BONUS by putting on dragonhide. This needs to be changed. Magic does not have a practical finishing move. It has something which doesn't even begin to compare to the specials ranged and melee dish out (The delay effect is what you're referring to, which I'm aware of through the use of mage only arena staking, which I used to do long ago). Read Compfreak's post. It IS practical, and with a little practice, not difficult to do. Not only does it hit high, but it has special effects which I'm sure you know by now. I apologize for having to BACK UP when I'm trying to do it, and I apologize for being pjed in the middle of my attempts. I also apologize for the fact that mine don't seem to do all that much damage in comparison to the 48-48 potential of dbow and the 80+ of melee. So silly of me.

Melee is only weapon based? Is this a serious conclusion you're making? Then why do dozens of types of armor sets exist for melee? Can you explain your statements further? P.S. Look at how many sets of armor melee has for every 10 levels. Now that I think about it, I REALLY don't understand what you're saying.

It does need to be changed. Magic and ranged both suffer penalties to their ATTACK BONUS by wearing plate but melee does not suffer penalties to its ATTACK BONUS by putting on dragonhide. This needs to be changed. Magic does not have a practical finishing move. It has something which doesn't even begin to compare to the specials ranged and melee dish out (The delay effect is what you're referring to, which I'm aware of through the use of mage only arena staking, which I used to do long ago). Compfreak himself made a thread about the overpoweredness of dragon claws. I can direct you to it, if you'd like.

By the way, this letter from the new Jagex CEO gives me hope:

You're still dodging the fact that there are inconsistencies with in-game armor mechanics. Also, a ranger or meleer will do perfectly well with K0ing hybrid opponents because meleers and rangers hit very hard, fast and have specials designed to act as finishers. Magic cannot stand alone, I repeat.

By switching to a whip, you're going to use it and magic in order to get the desired effect. Melee does not need to switch the way it attacks because it hit very hard and fast, and has bunch of ridiculous specials. The same goes for ranged, but apparently not for magic. If this is going to be your definition of hybrid, then why doesn't melee suffer penalties from putting dragonhide armor on when magic & ranged both suffer penalties from putting on plate armor? You shouldn't be the one to tell me how to hybrid. If I want to hybrid, I should be able to put on plate armor just like any other meleer, or meleers shouldn't be allowed to put on dragonhide without penalties. Please, tell me what's unfair about this.

You're confirming what I'm said earlier. You said mages now use a weapon and unleash a few melee hits to get them to switch armors/prayers and expose their weak spots in doing so. Great strat, I admit. But why does a meleer not have to do this? He can just keep right on using melee no matter what the situation is. [*:237hc1gn]A meleer does not necessarily need to hybrid to succeed. [*:237hc1gn]A ranger does not necessarily need to hybrid to succeed. [*:237hc1gn]A mager will need to hybrid to succeed because his attacks are inadequate. Although I still don't agree with the concept of a hybriding mage because the thing that's hybriding is not a mage, but a meleer/ranger hybriding by using magic every once in a while. Also, the staff of Zuriel is discounted from the scenario because it's expensive, rare, and impractical. Dragonhide armor is very practical. THE "TOO LONG, DIDN'T READ" VERSION: Dragonhide armor needs to subtract from melee attack bonuses. This would be consistent, and it would also be fair.

I'm not a true mage player? I have had YEARS of experience playing mages not only in this game, but in various other games as well, and I know exactly what kind of faults they experience when melee can get in close to them. How dare you? Secondly, I AM trying to fix what IS broken. I've explained why several times, and if you want to sit there parroting why I'm wrong without substantiating your claims, then I have nothing to say to you. Yes, I would adapt while being a mage, but apparently I can't wear the only armor good against melee (Plate armor) without suffering penalties to my magic bonuses, and meleers don't have to suffer penalties to their melee attack bonuses while wearing dragonhide. No, this isn't right and I'm advocating for it to be fixed. I'm trying to help balance a clearly imbalanced triangle. P.S. I'm not an advocate of the Zuriel spells slowing ranged attacks. I don't want to make magic overpowered against ranged, just against melee.

Yes, 90% of them used magic as a support skill in order to help their main melee/ranged based attacks (I.e. To hold their opponents in place). I don't see magic as a support skill, but one that is just as powerful when it stands alone. Yes, thank you for pointing that out. Let's not even get into the margins of how much cheaper it is. My suggestion is to implement game mechanics which make magic cheaper. If you're interested to know them, I can tell you. It's also less powerful, further decreasing its appeal. I'm an idiot? I beg to differ. A max mage bonus (140) WILL splash quite often against an opponents who also have 99 def & magic, is magic praying, wearing d'hide, freezing you with some zamorak godsword which can hit absurdly hard and quickly, etc.

Precisely. If everyone here doesn't believe a word of what I say about the troubles mages have in PvP, then at least to a look in a PvP world and tell me how many mages/rangers/and meleers there are. It's evident: If magic was more powerful AND more practical, more people would be using it. At the moment, it's lacking in both power and practicality, and the numbers you see reflected in PvP worlds speak for themselves. Look, rangers suffer a penalty to their ranged attack bonus by wearing plate armor. Mages suffer a penalty by wearing either dragonhide or plate armor. Melee doesn't suffer from wearing dragonhide armor. This is a simple inconsistency that needs to be righted.

The solution is the have ranged armor subtract attack bonuses from melee. Another solution is to give mages armor that is stronger against melee. Kk, g'night.

I'll quote an earlier post of mine to explain why (By the way, I really gotta go to sleep now): I'll be back at this as soon as possible, but the sleep calls. Thought you might appreciate this image, "Morningrise."

Now we're getting somewhere. The mage is NOT using melee equipment. The reason he isn't is because (1) Melee armor subtracts from magic attack bonuses (2) Wearing melee weapons means that the mage isn't actually a mage, but is a meleer. The warrior IS using ranged armor, because for some absurd reason Jagex decided it likes melee better and that ranged armor wouldn't subtract from melee attack bonuses, after all. A sad attempt at balance, on Jagex's part.

You don't get it, do you? The mage will also have trained attack, strength, and defense. In the real runescape, you train everything, and there is an infinite number of possibilities and level combinations of levels you can face at lowers levels. A mage at level 126 vs. a meleer at 126 illustrates end game stats and the fact that at higher and higher levels, magic grows more and more obsolete. What we want to actually do is evaluate magic, melee, and ranged in their raw form without looking at level differences, and the only way to do this compare foes with perfect stats, which eliminates the need for for guesswork. Indeed, the only difference between the meleer and mage in my scenario does not exist in their stats, but in the way they're attacking each other (One is choosing to use mage, and the other is choosing to use melee).

I was talking about both of them having 99 in everything, you twit. Having both the meleer and mage at level 126 provides us with a comparison of class balance rather than levels. God, how thick are you?

Of course it works. It's not my fault that Jagex chose to make require more training from Meleers. If you're saying that because melee has train more, they should be more powerful, then I would say to you, "Let mages train the equivalent of 99 attack and strength in order to become just as powerful." This would be fair, after all, wouldn't it? I require sleep to further fuel my rant. I'll be back tomorrow.

A warrior who straps on ranged armor is a warrior. The type of damage he is dealing is melee damage. A mage using a warrior weapon is not hybriding. He's switching the type of damage he's doing, so he's actually a warrior wearing mage armor. The thing that separates the three classes is the unique way each of them assaults their enemies. Their armor is there simply to aid them in some way. By switching to melee, magic once again becomes the very thing it shouldn't become - a support skill. Magic users should be viable against melee users either by: having meleers' melee stats be impeded by the use of dragonhide or magic users should have defenses/armor that can withstand melee attacks appropriately and not subtract from their magic attack bonus (No, I don't consider Ahrims adequate defense). I know, this doesn't simply involve allowing mages to wear rune, because then rangers would have a hard time with mages; if a comprehensive rework of the types of damage done by each class is required, then so be it.

We're not talking about switching attack styles or using staff of Zuriel, and I already mentioned why in my gigantic post on this page. When you switch the types of attacks your using, you're not a mage anymore. You're becoming a meleer wearing ahrims, which isn't what we're discussing. The majority of the places where mages get kills are places far away from the banks, but it's Jagex's responsibility to implement mechanics which fix this. They shouldn't be forced away from the PJers and be limited in the locations they can farcast. Also, we're not discussing very few or very little rangers, but we're discussing the situation where a ranger in good gear beats a mage in good gear. I originally placed this scenario in my giant post on this page because I wanted to compare it to the really close fight between a meleer and a mage, and to further prove my point that fights that happen between magers and rangers as well as fights that happen between magers and meleers are both very uphill battles for the mage. Also, a ranger's long range mode can be accompanied by first hitting the mage with a seercull to lower their magic level (Seercull costs what, 75k?)l, or using onyx bolts which heal the ranger per every hit. Rangers are capable of hitting 50+ per hit with a variety of bolts, and this includes long range mode, so I wouldn't say that the slowing down of their attack speed is a valid argument. Rangers beat magers badly. This is the way it's meant to be. But meleers can also give mages a very hard time if they take a few simple measures. The mage should be able to consistently and confidently face meleers and take them down, and I hope I've made it clear that this isn't the case.

But the scenario I mentioned does not include 35% reduced attack speeds, and for valid reasons (Read what I wrote in my gigantic post on this page). By death fights I meant 1v1 to the death, not fights where people are killed. Plenty of people are killed near banks because rangers and meleers have sufficient Koing power. A mage should not have to be restricted to pvping away from the scary pjers, and it's Jagex's responsibility to implement mechanics which fix this. If the mage had a good chance to finish the meleer with a special attack, he wouldn't need to be burdened go to remote locations that are away from bank just to pvp. I also don't understand what you don't understand about not being able to farcast rangers. Rangers have a "long ranged" mode on their weapons, don't they. Could they not use this mode to avoid being farcasted, and don't they have bolts they can use to heal themselves on impact? Can't they also use a seercull to lower magic levels (I've seen it hit 12s, hehe)? And in my scenario, the mager is fighting a ranger who is in full ranged gear, not just a dragonhide top. Where did I say he was wearing anything other than dragonhide? Also, meleers can apply poison to their weapons to poison their enemies, too. It still seems certain that the mages have significant disadvantages which can be fixed by simple changes in game mechanics.

You're comparing P2P magic armor with F2P melee armor. That doesn't hold any merit, and also makes no sense in the context of this situation. The meleer won't be using full rune. Also, I doubt you hit rangers more often than they hit you. This has definitely not been my experience. What spell effects were you referring to, when you mentioned the mage fighting the meleer? Also, the majority of death fights occur away from the banks, but the majority of fights occur near the banks. We're not talking about death fights, but rather fights which take place near banks, in which case PJ-ing makes life extremely difficult for mages. Also, d-claw pjing occurs in very populated worlds, too. I know this from painful experience. How will the mage finish the meleer if the mage is hitting so slowly? What will stop the meleer from teleporting away, considering the mage doesn't have a special to kill him in time? Rangers can also use long ranged attacks if you try any farcasting shananigans. And it's not even practical to farcast rangers - look at what they're wearing. I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Use d'hide, get good defense, train magic for that lovely extra magic resistance, and use protect prayers. Alright, I said I wouldn't respond to your posts, but here it is. A gift from me to you, since I'm bored and have nothing to do. I'm not pretending to have responded. Dragonhide, prayer, and good defenses cause splashes (Freezing = mages' only defense), do they not? Let's assume both players are maxed out in everything: The Meleer is protect magic praying, wearing black dragonhide armor, and has tons of extra magic resistance from his 99 magic. The Mage is protect melee praying, wearing the only flimsy mage armor he can, and does not have tons of "slash/stab/chop/hack" resistance from training HIS strength & attack. I say that the mage will be in a VERY tough spot and be VERY hard pressed to defeat such a meleer, especially since the mager's freezes are hardly landing. Yes, from my extensive experience, a meleer will reach a mage (or ambush one with d-claws that can rip through magic defenses so easily) for a substantial enough time to get the K-O. Even if he doesn't, it's not like the mage has the actual power to prevent the meleer from running to the nearest bank (There's a delay after freezes). In most 1v1 situations, not only are you both near a bank, but you're also surrounded by tons of people who can PJ you. Why is this significant for mages? I'll tell you: Because while the mage is trying to farcast the meleer, the mage is exposing himself completely to others. It's happened to me countless times, and it makes farcasting extremely difficult! Do you have any idea how much people disdain farcasting? I love it, but people will go specifically out of their way to attack you and call you a "farcasting noob," which only adds to the mounting difficulty of playing a mage. Let's examine the second case, maxed everything Mage vs. Ranger: Ranger is protect mage praying, wearing full black dragonhide/karils, has tons of extra magic resistance from his 99 magic. Magers is protect ranged praying, wearing flimsy magic armor, and may or may not have extra resistance to ranged attacks based on the fact that he too is 99 ranged (Do you gain ranged resistance from training ranged?) The Mager in this case might as well go AFK because he stands no chance. Why am I comparing these two scenarios? Because in one scenario, you have the Mage & Meleer and the meleer has a slight advantage, but for this purpose let's let it be an "equal" fight. In the second scenario, the mage gets totally wrecked by the ranger. So, why do the two fights the mage has to go through be both so uphill? Shouldn't the mage completely wreck the warrior no matter what the warrior is wearing? Or shouldn't the mage be able to adapt and bend to the triangle by wearing plate armor himself? Shouldn't the mage gain resistance to slash/stab/(insert random melee attack style) attacks by training attack and strength? Shouldn't the mage get a special attack to finish the meleer? Shouldn't the mage be allowed to attack faster so the meleer can't out-eat the slowly dished out magic damage so easily? Shouldn't the mage beat meleer just as bad as the ranger beats the mager? Shouldn't Jagex make magic more powerful and appealing so there isn't a disproportionate amount of meleers and rangers? My scenarios don't include the Staff of Zuriel, which you desperately cling to. That's because it's rare and expensive, and that the majority of mages don't have it. A majority of meleers, though, will have d'hide, a decent weapon, some magic levels, defense levels, and prayer. I don't know what compels me to keep arguing with you. Perhaps it's the hope that someday, someone from Jagex will stumble upon this post, since they do like to know what goes on in their fansites (Example: Keylogger outbreak on another fansite was posted on runescape.com to warn players) and say, "Hey, maybe this Elusefelier guy is right, and we should help mages out a bit." Although unlikely, this is my hope. I don't want you to think that I'm a powerhungry maniac or anything like that. I'm doing this because the people I know laugh at Magic combat, and they don't find it practical or fun. I want to work toward changing this. I'm sorry if you feel you don't agree with me, but this is the view I will hold.

Just to clear up something. You seem to think that I want to continue debating with you. This isn't the case. Thanks, E.

I haven't been spamming. I've already said I've addressed those same points in the past, and you keep re-posting them as if they're something new. Don't falsely accuse me, please. Congratulating yourselves on your post count in the rants forum isn't spam, right? You're making huge fools of yourselves.

Nowhere to be found. I disagree with what you say, but you have every right to say it. This thread has now reached 200 posts. Obviously I'm doing something right, or at least provoking some thought on this most magical of subjects. Logic and superior knowledge, eh?

Link: http://listverse.com/bizarre/top-10-bizarre-traditions/ I don't like tradition.