Veritas94

I remember when this guide used to contain spell stacking information. Too bad Jagex eliminated double casting, hugely decreasing the KOing power (what little it had) of the mage. Hopefully, the arcane stream necklace will help. However, I shouldn't have to have 70 dungeoneering to be able to use magic effectively. For hybriding, magic is indeed useful. Alone, it can't KO like the other two points in the CB triangle. Hopefully they fix this issue some day.

The player I debated was here on the TIF. And yes, his name was Compfreak. By the way, player jumping has been effectively eliminated by Jagex's updates. When casting or attacking someone in a single combat area, you cannot be attacked by another player. I just thought I'd mention this if you wanted to tweak that part of your thread. Anyway, good luck :).

Man, I haven't visited this thread in ages. What happened to your thread on the Runescape forums? My thread (F2P Magic: Obvious Imbalance) is still up, but no changes have been made. Sad, eh? I'm glad this is still up! Good job man :). A long time ago I had a vicious debate with some guy, Deviledegg, about the viability of P2P magic. I remember that thread didn't go anywhere, lol. Maybe I should create another thread like that :D Anyway, all the best! Elus Efelier, Magi of the High Circle of Fire

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Compfreak is certain that Jagex is a company hellbent on making profits and only profits. Profits are only part of the entire story. Profits may be a motivating factor in updating F2P (In order to draw in more members), but that's not the only reason they update it. Another reason they would update F2P, aside from profits, is simply because they see that F2P has many things wrong with it (I.e. broken mechanics) and that they need to fix them because they like to see people who play their game have fun. Fun is a foreign concept to Compfreak, I guess. God forbid Jagex actually does things they like without a motivation for profit. You'll see. Magic will be updated, I'm sure of it. And I will smile with triumph when it is. Compfreak will say that this is Jagex's way of drawing in members. I will laugh and say it's because Jagex actually cares for the F2P part of their community. And he still doesn't see how the above statement is complete nonsense. Oh well, you win some you lose some. Can't debate a parrot like Compfreak. I won't intrude in this thread any longer. I've said what I've had to say, and seeing as how none of what I've said has been successfully shot down, I take my leave. I do hope I've pissed Compfreak off a bit, though. If not, I'll try harder next time. :)

The comment you made about the mithril scimitar makes no sense at all. I've tried and failed time and again to use logic to show you that high level magic combat is broken. I think it's time to break out the "L0ls, ur wrong 1m r1ght, h4h4h4h4hh4!" How can you possibly think that mages, with their god awful binds and low damage will stay out of reach of a meleer who can hit absurd damage. You continue saying nonsensical things like "Oh you cant compare 99 magic with a maxed meleer b/c the two would never meet." That's not true. They can and do meet because everyone makes choices about what type of combat style they use, regardless of their levels. Two maxed players are direct proof that a 99 mager can meet a maxed meleer because the mager could have trained melee, as well, but he chooses to use his magic skill. It blows my mind that you cannot understand that this could happen. I can't believe after all this discussion you still don't see that updates to F2P generates money for them. [b]Again, it comes down to you not believing what they said in their letter on the front page.[/b] According to them, F2P updates will provide them with more P2P clients. This I will not debate further since your great mistrust of business blinds you to the fact that Jagex may actually be honest and open about how they do business. They may be telling the truth in that letter of theirs, but you choose not to believe it. I can't MAKE you believe they are honest. That is your personal belief based on experience, something I can't change by saying anything. It makes no sense for me to try to argue this further with you. That they've done quite a bit is debatable. Very debatable. Considering they've barely touched the actual free-game like they said they would, I'd say that they will continue updating F2P. If F2P does get updated more, then I will be a jerk and laugh in your face. That's just me though, and I will be laughing only because it seems so plain and obvious at this point. Let's let time decide this question for us, eh? You really love to lump Runescape players into the "they're all idiots who can't play RS well" category. An experienced pker won't make such an elementary prayer mistake, especially when wearing items of value.

There is not a complete lack of evidence. Why would they have the F2P game there in the first place? I guess Jagex will one day say, "Hey guys, we're complete idiots. Let's scrap F2P altogether and make Runescape only P2P based." I'm sure that will make them a bunch of profit. Jagex took the time to make F2P Runescape for a reason. From a business perspective, it's to provide a glimpse at game and entice the players to play P2P. It may seem like I'm repeating myself, but look: You have no idea how much it would cost Jagex to give F2P the snare spell, let's say. I'm certain you don't know because the cost of each update is #1. Probably not accounted for in the company (Maybe it is, who knows?) #2. Not released to the public. I think it is YOU making blanket statements about the monumental wealth Jagex would lose if they give F2P a few simple updates. Puh-lease. If a letter from the Jagex CEO which explains in logical terms why F2P should be updated is not sufficient proof for the company's intentions, then I don't know what is. I guess they were simply putting that letter up to appease the little whiners of F2P; No one will notice after 1 year that F2P has not received any changes and everyone will remain as calm and complacent as a lamb, right Compfreak? They'll just sit there, I assume. But really, why would Jagex intentionally put up a letter about making changes to the F2P game and then go back on their word, DO NOTHING, and then have a huge number of disappointed F2Pers on their hands who call them liars and quit the game. Dies to the mage? Hahaha, that's very funny. A tear rolled down my cheek. :D And lol at mages draining prayer. It's not like the meleer can wait until the last minute to turn on his prayer if some superbadass mage with mystical powers unknown to F2P comes and fights him. A meleer with 85 strength and attack and 99 magic will prefer to use the melee because the magic is so weak at higher levels, which this is all about. At lower levels magic may be powerful, and it should be toned down at those lower levels, but at higher levels it needs some major changes.

You responded with an argument for overall play time differences in F2P & P2P. If if I were to question your source about that, what does it matter? If player "x" plays more than player "y," it won't matter, because they can both acknowledge that they've played the game and they can provide their thoughts about it. That's even more of a reason to make F2P better. Jagex needs to make an impression on F2Pers in a shorter about of time, and having broken game mechanics is not the way to make that first positive impression. You still haven't responded to the fact that both are valid advertisements for the game. There are no biased arguments here. You and Jagex differ fundamentally about F2P updates. They think it's a worthy cause and you do not. Technically, I shouldn't even have to prove anything to you. They have set a precedent for F2P updates and they WILL WILL update F2P again. Mod Mark said that himself. I don't want to argue this point further. If you want, you can debate it with Jagex on the RS forums. If you do, could you give me the QFC code so I can see the chaos that ensues? Thanks :). Corrupt lends enormous PKing power to melee because of their ability to deliver a disproportionate amount of damage usually not seen in F2P. Try pking in F2P some time and look at the expressions on people's faces when a player KO's them with corrupt gear. It's rather funny and sad at the same time. Lol, you continue with this. How about a ninja with laser beams shooting out of his eyes? But really, any combination of levels can meet on the battlefield. Imagine if two players were maxed out, 99 Str/att/def/Hp/Rng/Mge and one of them used magic and the other used Melee. I think we'd know how a high level fight like that would turn out. Their stats don't need to be perfect like that either. High level players will train ranged to a high level, magic to a high level, and melee to a high level, but will generally opt to use Melee and ranged because they are far superior. See what I'm saying?

"120m accounts registered to date, including 8.5m active accounts/month (5m every fortnight) and around 1m premium subscriptions (paying roughly £3.20/$5 a month) " This is what you're source says so let's go with that for the sake of argument. 7.5 Million F2pers vs. 1 Million P2Pers. And so what if PTP players play more on average than F2PErs. Both own ACTIVE accounts. F2P players are both a great advertisement for Runescape and an enormous source of potential revenue. F2P deserves tweaks in the fundamental mechanics of combat(Namely magic), so all of those active F2P players can enjoy the game more. I don't see where you're taking this, Compfreak. It's clearly evident, whatever your philosophy about F2P updates is, that Jagex values F2P as a source of revenue and they do things CONTRARY to what you predict they should. After all, they implemented corrupt items into F2P just recently to give players a taste of membership. Yes, Compfreak, you just implied that Jagex does not have a sound sense of finance by claiming that any F2P updates are nonsense, and that's a hilarious thing to say. When you look at how successful Jagex has become, it's fairly clear that they know what the hell they're doing in terms of profits. I'm sure glad you're not at Jagex to give them advice. Runescape might have died a while ago if that happened :(. Man, I'm really enjoying this conversation. P.S. "And at a cost of only several million GP per hour. Very practical, I'm sure PKers make a fortune." There is nothing more satisfying than using your own argument against you from our previous lovely thread. Remember what you talked about with not needing the staff of Zuriel for every moment of the fight, and how you could preserve it for weeks on end? Yeah, that argument. The very same applies to Corrupt scims. You only need to take them out when the opponent is low on health. I have many Pker friends who have attested to how long the scims last when used properly. Also, you can protect the corrupt scimitar via prayer, if you were going to use that argument. Corrupt is very powerful in F2P, and magic and ranged were left out, as usual. P.S. And by the way, that 70 strength argument you keep making is really invalid. We both know that Runescape players don't train only melee or only magic or only ranged. You could have 2 players with identical combat stats using different types of combat. If one were using magic, he'd be at a disadvantage. Then the essence of the argument does not merely come to levels.

Given that he's much better and more accurately then the meleer's inaccurate 20s without special effects, it's quite similar to PTP combat where magic overpowers all. I'd say the idea is not "questionable at best" at all. There are over 135 Million runescape account, and 15 million active accounts. 1-2 million of those are members and the rest are F2P. 14 Million F2Pers is NOT a questionable advertisement. P.S. The meleer can hit 27s, not "inaccurate 20s." P.P.S. Lolcorruptdragonscimitar. I don't even know what that can hit.

Just because you're updating F2P doesn't mean more players will want to remain F2P. There will always continue to be worlds of advantages P2P will have that F2P will never have. Besides, it's not black and white. Some players might decided not to play Runescape at all because they don't like certain elements of the game. Think about the following: If a player was playing Runescape and Jagex knew FOR CERTAIN he would never be P2P, would they want to kick him because he was taking up space on their servers? No, of course not. Why? Because a player playing Runescape, either F2P OR P2P will be a walking advertisement for the game. They will talk about Runescape with their friends, and their friends in turn might want to play. P.S. There is nothing unbalanced about the Mage in my sig. :)

Your post didn't make much sense to me. Is the P2P in that sentence supposed to be F2P?

And an update to magic in F2P will better the F2P experience for everyone, thus drawing in more customers to P2P. Thanks for agreeing with me, Compfreak. P.S. I hope you like my sig, Compfreak.

Logical fallacy: "In short, the more updates F2P gets, the less likely F2Pers will go P2P, proving your argument, wrong." The reason F2P goes to P2P is because of a variety of factors, not just continuous updates focused only on P2P. P2P has many facets which attract F2P players (Quest, added trainable skills, armor, training methods, money making methods, monsters, huge map, extensions of F2P skills, minigames, etc.) In millions of businesses around the world, free samples are offered to consumers to entice them to buy the final product. If the free sample leaves a bitter aftertaste in the consumer's mouth, then it is reasonable to assume that the consumer will not buy the final product. F2P has been successful to an extent in getting players to switch over to P2P, but by improving the F2P game, Jagex has to pay a set amount of money ONCE in order to fix the issues and draw in even more customers than before. Ultimately, to say that spending money on F2P will yield less revenue for Jagex in the long run is complete nonsense.

At higher levels melee can hit 27s with a scimitar while mages run around trying to hit 16s at half the speed melee is delivering 27s. =D>

Thanks for your responses :-)! I think debase should have the cooldown removed, though. It wouldn't affect ranged, but would give magers a greater advantage over melee.

Only the future can answer our questions with certainty :D . For me, that future does not look so bad - Indeed, higher level spells would be nice.

I wouldn't put words in Jagex's mouth if I were you, Compfreak. EDIT: Also, realize that by magic, he could mean F2P magic, which may be in need of more attention than P2P magic.

"We recognize that mage may be underpowered and there are people with rather large cerebellums on the problem." - Mod MMG Runescape forums, quick find code: 13-14-613-58401007 HELL YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sees, how come your never respond to my posts in your thread :( :x :cry:

lol def nub...

Come to think of it, I don't think that push spells are a good idea. They are difficult to program from a java standpoint and they cannot be effective in a closed area. Imagine how difficult it would be to create a pushback spell which somehow avoids all the obstacles of the Runescape world. There are simply too many variables to account for. Instead, I would recommend replacing your push spells with ones that force your opponent to walk even more slowly than they usually do. Another practical approach would be to simply have the spells drain massive amounts of your opponent's run energy with each hit, thereby making it nearly impossible for the meleer to successfully catch up with the mage. Your push spells are impractical, in my opinion. You have my support for most other parts of your spellbook, though.

In light of the fact that you're proposing so many new spells, it would be better to also propose a system of organizing the spells in a menu that you can rearrange. For instance, you can click and drag a spell icon and position it anywhere in the spell book you please. Thus, spells will be easily accessible to you during combat.

Regarding inventory space: In F2P magic, I often find myself at a disadvantage because my runes take up so many spaces that I can't utilize for food storage. This means that in a 1v1 situation, the odds are against me to come out on top because I have less food than my opponent does. Regarding debuffs: Also, a revision to the debuff spells is a good thing. 5%-10% decreases in my opponent's attack, strength, or defense do not give me, the magi, a substantial edge over my opponent. Additionally, in order to utilize those debuff spells, I need to bring mind runes (F2P) or soul runes (P2P), which also take up an extra space. The time it takes to cast all 3 debuff spells (Confuse, Weaken, & Curse) is far too long. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to create 1 spell which lowers attack, strength, and defense in one cast, instead of having to cast 3 spells for 3 separate effects? This would be far more practical from a PvP perspective. Also, let's not forget that we don't want these spells helping out meleers & rangers. For instance, we don't want a ranger casting debuffs & simply continuing to use ranged; from what I gather, these spells are intended to benefit magic combat, not melee or ranged combat. Regarding cost: Part of what makes melee combat so appealing is the low cost. You buy armor & weapons and that's it, you're set for melee combat for the rest of eternity. Additionally, you can sell your armor and weapons back for just the same amount of money you bought them for! This is not so for a magi like myself. I have to continuously pay money for every spell I cast. Believe me when I say that I would have a lot more fun being a magi if I knew that my spells cost very little to cast, and I wouldn't have to spend "x" amount of hours merching/skilling to get back the money I lost from casting expensive spells. What can we do about high magic costs? Give mages a chance to get multiple casts out of 1 rune. Yes, this may seem quite radical at first, but rangers get a similar game mechanism with their arrows. Why shouldn't we? My 2 cents.