Jonanananas
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Posts posted by Jonanananas
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People read the Times articles for an author's perspective and interpretation of a topic and they can come to the forums to read the community's general perspective. I don't think it's the writers' responsibility to formulate and articulate what the community collectively believes. Articles are supposed to be opinionated (to an extent) and they are supposed to dredge discussion, not recapitulate what has already been said for the past week in General Discussion
I couldn't agree more with this. An Times article is as already said, the author's view on something. The whole meaning with publishing an article is to share your own view with the community. Not to just say something that the community have just discussed. And according to me, this is at least one of the biggest reason to what makes the Tip.It Times what it is today; Awesome.
Nothing against that, really not. But when an author presents his opinion in an editorial, its aim normally is to influence the opinion of the reader into a certain direction. If it doesn't do that convincingly, it's generally not a good one. If there are obvious counterarguments left out, it doesn't help the goal of the article. If Racheya wanted to bring the point across that livid farm is not as bad as people make it out to be, then she should have adressed e.g the usefulness of the spells in some way.
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First article was ok, didn't mention a few things I would've liked to hear though(as in I don't agree with the opinion of the article as most of the spells are useless and I don't particularly care about getting farm xp so I wouldn't put up with the grind it seems to be)
Second article: I guess it could have been good...The problem is that I personally, and I suspect a few others here as well have never been involved with Runescape businesses...which makes your article seem like a lot of brambling. You should have put more notion on who your audience is and shape that article a bit so they can get something out of it too.
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Tbh Runescape is grinding enough already - raising skills up to 120 is useless if you don't even have the content to 99 yet. Currently it will just encourage mind-numbing training of skills which is, for the majority of people, the wrong way to go. Those who really care about their achievements and are willing to grind for hours straight can already do that with Xp or highscore goals. No need to add new levels just for that. I think the whole focus should shift, away from the shiny 99 capes who may be fun to get, but don't really offer anything worthwhile.
Tbh, a lot of that attitude kinda sickens me. Take the livid farm update. When it was released, players complained that if they already had 99, they still had to play the minigame to unlock the rewards. Like they were FORCING them to train a skill after 99! OMG! That is totally wrong, isn't it? /sarcasm off.
Of course runescape has always included grinding, and unless you completely rewrap the game (which wouldn't be a smart move considering that millions have come to like it as it is) you cannot scrap it completely. I'd just wish they could provide alternative skilling options, which don't need to be the new fastest method ever, but simply an alternative way with similar xp rates. Is that too much for ask for.
And of course, a lot of skills are still missing a point. Let's see
Combat skills obviously provide an advantage and have a point
herblore as well.
slayer, dungeoneering: check
agility: kinda
but then come the older skills...
Firemaking:useless. Smtihing:useless. Mining:useless. Thieving: useless. Farming: Useless. Woodcutting: Useless. Fishing: Useless....I could go on. Most of these were needed in Runescape, and obviously they are still kind of needed today. But not by an individual person. All these skills are merely for producing a few nice things(or they don't do anything worthwhile at all) and you're better off if you just make some money and buy it all. Most skills have lost their usefulness for single players, and I think that needs to change. It's a long way to go of course, but honestly I can't see Jagex even starting with it....just look at the supposed smithing "revamp"....
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What I've personally always wondered is:
You say bot programmers can get every information out of the RS client. If that's the case, why continue to supply it? I definitely don't want to piss off people who use it, but is it really necessary? What's the big deal about playing in a normal browser?
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I have to agree with the first article. Things have gotten a little less risky but I just move on up to things that are more challenging.
As for the second article there's another possible reason for the trend. Over the last few years Jagex had rolled out a lot of new content quickly. Often it seemed half developed & had plenty of glitches. The players had also become far less social. Maybe, just maybe Jagex actually noticed & decided to actually try to correct that trend. By introducing more community events they were able to take the focus away from the updates giving them more time to get them properly developed & into play. :thumbsup: I know that's wishful thinking but lets hope that's what they had in mind.
If it is, they still haven't understood how it works. If you want players to socialize, you give them the possibility and the incentive to do so (clan chats etc., incentive to form clans) community events don't really change anything about that.
Oh and the content is still just as half developed. Row glitch, dozens of duel arena glitches and similar.
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I love how the first article goes to great pains to point out, hey, at one point we only had 3 minutes to get our staff back! Amg!
Um, when in the hell was this ever true?
You had about 1-2 (maybe 3) minutes before your items appeared on the floor to everyone. That was PRE-gravestone.
There was one minute for your stuff to recollect your stuff without it appearing to others. Another minute of it being visible for everything. That's exactly 2 minutes in total. not 3.
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Activities that are dangerous in Runescape: Pvp, Corp, GWD solo, KBD(because you have to run through the wild if you die),chaos elemental.
Apart from that, I can't think of anything. Gravestones were already a joke, and with 15 instead of 6 minutes it's just downright hilarious. There is no area except the above mentioned where you couldn't go easily within 15 mins and collect your stuff. Heck, you could go there four or five times before your timer runs out. There is simply NO danger with normal monsters under any relevant circumstances.
I think gravestones provide just the wrong kind of security. If you die at any normal slayer monster then you'd have to be pretty damn stupid or AFK. Both things that are entirely your fault and therefore should be punished by losing money.
At bosses, if you fight them seriously sometimes death simply can't be prevented. But it's these players that may get punished for dying. I don't think that's how it should be. The risk of dying at slayer monsters if FAR lower, therefore it should be punished a LOT more than dying at a boss imo.
Jagex should just have kept gravestone as they are(or even lower the times, but they probably wouldn't dare that) and code individual solutions for GWD and such.
Second article: Yes it's a trend a lot of people have noticed recently. Tbh, most of these events are a fail and only fun for a tiny minority of players. Jagex shouldn't do community events(or at least not many) and instead provide framework for community events organized by the COMMUNITY, not Jmods. Triumvirate was a nice addition like that, and the clan chat update probably will be too. The rest is mostly just a waste of time and it's sad to see Jagex going into that direction.
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What the clan article didn't mention was that Jagex is actually working on an update to the clan chats right now, which would feature a lot of interesting stuff such as clan highscores, the prevention of multi-clanning and a lot of other neat stuff. I'd wait for that before suggesting further changes - they may already be included ;)
scam article - meh. Honestly I couldn't care less if jagex prevents these scams - I don't think it hurts anyone if they fall for a scam. It's their own fault and they should learn out of it.
Unless, ofc, it's a really good lure - but I haven't seen or heard of such yet.
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Well, I have honestly no idea why Hasbro would choose Jagex, but I think they should get a chance at least. Apart from Runescape, Jagex has released only funorb yet, which practically did only really fail because they tried using subscriptions there as well. No matter how good the games are, there are tons of sites how offer small minigames, and almost none require you to pay money to enjoy them fully. The market was just overflown with free stuff already. But a lot of the funorb games are actually really decent.
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WHAT FAQ?
Oh, and I hate to do this, but I'm pretty sure the Larry/Penguin article made a mistake. Penguins speak whatever the common RS tongue is. Stll enjoyed the article overall though :D
I agree with the smithing article - it looks like a decent update and more interesting way to train smithing, although the cost is a bit steep from what I've seen. The problem is, smithing just isn't useful. As for it becoming another prayer/herblore, they could have it start at level 1 and increase with the levels. I'm certain with enough imagination you could come up with something tbh.
And yeah, I know about the gambling. Either the odds are stacked against you or they're scamming you.
The FAQ released in the recent updates forum.
On the story part...yeah you're right. I haven't even noticed that. The story works just as well without that though, so it's not a big deal.
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Ooooh, so many shiny articles! :D
So, let's do them one by one:
Smithing Revamp: I haven't personally tried it yet(and probably won't for a long time) but it seems like it offer some interesting training methods. From what I've heard, the update itself is actually decent - apart from the fact that it's in no way what was expected or needed. The FAQ looks more like an excuse tbh, but what I think I could read between the lines is that they don't want smithing to become another Prayer/Herblore. Face it, most of the suggestions included more powerful, untradeable armour and weapons. Smithing isn't quite a cheap skill(Unless you train it at the blast furnace) and obviously a real use to it would drive up prices a lot. Now, the artisans's workshop doesn't really help with that...but I think it's a try. But until smithing is actually revamped we'll have to wait quite a bit...more than a year at least.
The house always wins: I have heard the suggestion of incorporating such games into actualy Runescape code(to prevent scamming) and I though it was an interesting idea. Of course the thrill of not knowing if the host is going to cheat you will be gone...but the flower games and such have a lot of bad reputation as being scam-games and I think it's a bit sad that something which people apparently enjoy cannot fully be used because of that. I think that'd be quite a nice addition ;)
Logdotzip: A very interesting article, you have successfully shown why you love this game. Runescape is indeed an awesome game that offers thousands of possibilites to play(I personally would probably have quitted some time ago as I don't really can get fun out of skilling or combat - if it wasn't for Team Penguin. It's something I discovered that's a lot of fun to me, the community, the aspect of helping other players and the whole game mechanics of dealing with penguins - even if that doesn't really have to do so much anymore with what anyone would consider a "standard" runescape playstyle.) Even if we may disagree with certain updates, we have come to love this game for what it is, and I think the people at Jagex are trying their best to keep that and also offer new stuff at the same time - even though they fail sometimes ;)
Larry and the penguins: PENGUINS! :D
Nah, I really liked it although it was a bit too short for my taste but it certainly got me thinking about it. Without larry, what would we have done? No chance against the penguins...and everyone thinks he's crazy. Poor larry :(
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Hmm....with the climbing boots update, there was the rumor floating around that mod mark had leaked it to his friends and they made tons of money of that. If an article with some proof that's not easily distinguishable as a fake was published, bashing mod Mark for that...I could imagine them going mad a bit ;)
but this is kinda going off-topic lol ;)
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Jagex also undoubtedly has changed. Just compare it - Back then, players were banned for having offensive names, and now not even botters are guaranteed to get a ban. Just that should show that a lot of things are different at Jagex today, and I'd say most are for the positive.
This would need to be taken to a whole other level, with more controversial information and probably also a more biased view in order for Jagex to ask for the removal of an article again.
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Well tbh...I wouldn't exactly say my article was *that* much of a kick in the hornet's nest. The only information that I didn't find publicized by Jagex in some way were there profits and employments from last year(I don't see how these would be that controversial in any way) and the fact that the gowers and constant have left the directors board...but that has been floating around the forums a bit without even a lock. So I'd say there's no risk with the article at hand ;)
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Regarding Storm's idea, because I haven't yet got to talk about that myself:
I actually think this might be a viable solution, it just depends on how much work will have to go into this.
Yes, botters want to have an advantage over other players, and the private server doesn't offer that, but think about it. We have a random player who thinks about botting. Why does he think about it? He doesn't say to himself "Hey, I want to use this illegal macro program to gain highscore ranks quicker than everyone else, I'm going to download it now and start botting so I can have an advantage over everyone"
It's probably more like "Damn, fishing is so slow...I wanna go PKing but I don't have the money for it....hmm I've heard of this bot that's supposed to be undetectable. I guess I can try it out"
Now, you have to think that Jagex will always look a lot more reliable than some dubious RWT company. Which means that, if someone has the choice between the two, chances are high that he'll choose the official way. No risk of getting banned, no risk of getting "hacked" etc. Of course private servers will soon hold no merit for most of these cheaters. But how many of them will actually go back after that?
How many will say "Oh, I realize now that I only had fun botting on the normal servers because I could gain an unfair advantage over others. I'm tired of these private server cheatings, but will go back to normal servers and bot there in order to have fun again" Imo, a pretty low number. Most will probably just quit.
But on the other hand, my mind kinda revolts against legalizing botting in any way, and tbh, I'd like a few SERIOUS attempts to stop botting before this would be implemented. What Jagex is doing atm is just a joke.
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Well, if planting marker plants would get rid of a high amount of bots, then why not plant one on every world? Ofcourse, this isn't possible solo, but it could be an effort made on every server.
I guess it has to be enough of a problem for it to be worth it though. Hmm
If it became widespread like that, they'd fix the bots to deal with plants.
There are already bots who can deal with it...and yes, if it became an official move, bots would adapt within a few weeks at most, probably only days.
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In my opinion if JaGex are truely serious about stopping the ever emmerging marco problem they need to take REAL steps against the people developing the bots.
Now im not a lawyer so i cant exactly comment of this, but if JaGex want to stop botting they need to really take steps against the developers, not the users. The only way they can really do this is through legal action. By taking out legal action against the developers it would send out the message to most other bot owners that JaGex are serious about this problem. Right now the only steps JaGex are taking against botters are in game punishments such as resetting skills (lol) and occasionally banning accounts and quite frankly its no-where near enough.
What they need to understand is that the developers are developing these bots for money, whilst the actual botters are the ones botting on the server. Banning accounts isn't going to stop the development of bots, its just going to lead to the user making a new account once his old "botting account" is banned.
For the people suggesting small trivial changes to be made daily/weekly. Although this would probably have an effect for the first week or two of this being around, after that initial period it would just become an incovienience to other players. It would be extremly easy for the developers of these scripts to just program the bot so if it see's something different that would not usually be there, to turn around walk back to the bank it came from and log out.
Afaik, they already have been taking legal action against bot developers...with few merit. I know that at least one site was closed down but immediately opened again under a slightly different name. It's not very easy to prove that bot developers actually break laws, not just game rules.
On the second part of your post...unfortunately true. Actually I have seen a few bots at Aubury's already who logged out once they got near the marker plant/cannon. And however suspicious that might be, it's not enough to prove that it's a bot, not even mentioning that you'd have to get his name first, which will be hard if he logs out.
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In regards to the first article, that sounds like a viable solution to me.. Something where people can really play whatever part of the game they want, without all the grinding and stuff they don't want from the real game. I'd definitely stick with the real game though. :thumbsup: However it sounds like a *lot* of work.. and I don't get the impression that Jagex would do something that drastic. Maybe we could entice them with the extra money they'd make from (possibly) more members signing up for the "fun" content, and the extra money from selling gold and accounts. :P Which brings me to the second article..
I had no idea that the Gower's no longer had a connection with the game.. do they have any connection's left with Jagex at all?? If they don't, why not? Have they lost the love for this great game they created in their dorm room? :( Makes me sad.. and definitely provides a reason as to why Jagex seems to be all about the money recently. I really hope the latest board of directors (or whatever you call the people who run this game) don't run this game into the ground. It's a lot of fun. :) The only good thing about RS dying would be the time I gain back. xD Don't really want it back at this point though!
EDIT: Don't know if I've ever made a post this long. :P
Yes they do still have a connection with Runescape. First of all, the gowers are still shareholders of (I believe) 52% of Jagex, also Paul is a Game Content developer for Runescape and Andrew is lead developer of Runescape, at least on paper. However, it's not quite clear (at least to me) how much exactly he is still doing, and how much of it is decided my Mod Mark, lead designer of Runescape.
Also, while the Board of directors generally has an influence and could override any decisions made, they usually worry about the business aspect of running a company and leave the game itself to the lead developer/designer. So this doesn't mean that foreign investors control everything about Runescape now...but it definitely has an influence, and probably a not too small one.
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Cool to know my article was liked :P
I'll adress a few things now.
second article- The cash could be being diverted to refilling their reserve money that was lost from mechscape. Jagex could not be lieing that it won't have an effect on rs but they just want to replensh their cash reserves incase of another emergancy. Another thing was left out was that jagex was also recently sued and they had to divert cash for that.
Quote from the article: Into the cash reserves emptied by the MechScape incident?
That covers your first part, and for the second part...I haven't read anything about that. Could you point out which lawsuit exactly you mean?
Both articles were a good read.
As for #1: The entire purpose of rwt and botting is to show off skills/items/gp. If they can't act superior to real players than they would have no reason to rwt/bot. At least thats how I view a botter's outlook towards Runescape. And that is why I can't see cheater worlds ever working.
As for #2: Of course they're about money, its just getting more apparent again. From the onset of bonus exp weekend #1 I was almost certain any following weekends would be members only as well. And they're trying their hardest to milk the "wildy's back" theme for all its worth, through items in the store and the wildywyrm "update".
What it comes down to for me right now is that Runescape is still a game I enjoy playing for what it is. Do I dislike certain aspects of it? Yes. But I can't name a single game I liked 100%. I only wish they didn't blatantly lie when they claimed they can counter bots. Its obvious they can't and I doubt they ever will be able to.
And I liked the use of references...until I saw Wiki links.
Well, first of all I only used wiki references of which I was sure they were legit because I have seen it on the original source. Unfortunately, if you check the references in the wiki article, it seems to have expired over time, keep in mind that was a few years ago. Also, I used references to state where I got my information/inspiration from, not to make it 100% failsafe. If I wanted an article good enough to be used at court I would have put way more work into that ;)
The second article I really did enjoy because it had sources (although #8 and #9 turned out to have expired RSOF links). Sources are important; we need them to prove that someone isn't just talking trash.
Now, we speak in double terms when we say that Jagex is "in it for the cash", since they are a business. The reason that we'd probably say this is that in the past, they did give out an outwardly PR image that that felt more like, "Profits be damned! We want the game to be good for our community!", but that PR message has been dampened - at least in the writer's mind - with some of the more recent happenings at Jagex, either internally with the company, with RuneScape, with FunOrb, and/or with Stellar Dawn.
In my mind, saying "they're in it for the cash" is a misnomer, and mostly unfair of a for-profit, multi-million dollar online MMO. They *have* to pay for their staff and equipment in one way or another. It's probably more appropriate to say, in one's own terms, that their corporate focus - or corporate culture - has changed.
#8 was the sticky on the wildywyrms update, unfortunately it got eaten by chewy already. I should've watched out and bumped it :/
As for #9, the link isn't quite correct, replace the "a" after ...forums? with a "1", then it will take you there.
And as said....of course it's a company. They have to focus on making money or they will never succeed in the modern word of capitalism ;)
They simply shouldn't take it too far, especially when it's only about short-term profit....in the long run they will hurt themselves.
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And yes, I guess my article is indeed quite "doomsday"-like, but I had to get that off my heart ;)
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first! :D
Can't escape the present: Well, I haven't played in 2006 so I don't really can say what it's like. But I think what people think back then was so much better is not how the game in itself worked, it was more the spirit of it. Jagex was smaller at the time and at least seemingly not so money-oriented as of today. Also, I think it had more of a "cult" game status back then that comes from not having good graphics and being told of only through players themselves(kind of like minecraft today).
Today, even though I haven't played back then...Jagex seems more distant somehow.
Why the negativity: Well, have you ever though about that this are simply your feelings because you personally like pking very much? For me, and from what I've seen from some others the general feeling is that some people at Jagex don't care as much about runescape anymore and only use it as a cash cow. There are several incidents to suggest this, one of them introducing wildy/free trade with no functioning bot detection system. We *do* know now that bots are back forcefully(I don't know when you wrote this article, but honestly even before the update it wasn't hard to guess tbh - there were plenty of people predicting exactly this.)
There are some other points of your article I disagree with.
The report abuse button: Have fun wasting 2 hours of your playtime reporting 100 bots at Aubury's on *one* world. Even if you do...what use if 1.it takes months until something happens 2.for some bots, nothing happens at all 3.most will just get rolledback slightly 4.even those banned can buy their accounts back?
The community using the economy to disable bots: Dream on. Nuff said, sorry.
I will happily provide Jagex with feedback and ideas, but only when I get the impression that it is of any use. From the way they are acting at the moment, I never even slightly had the idea that this would be the case.
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Maybe I misunderstood something(I haven't tried out the urns myself - not much time to play recently), but aren't the urns basically free xp for nothing? Just like effigies were? I'm sorry, I'm definitely not one of the guys who complains every time a skill gets easier, but honestly I hate those updates which only deliver more xp and NOTHING else.
Xp as a quest reward? Great!
New elite content with higher xp rates? Super!
Some FUN new minigame/D&D who offer an alternative way of training? Awesome!
But....Free xp for the sake of it? Honestly, where's the point? How does it improve your playing? Why did anyone waste developer time with that...?
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Why should they care, they get their $
The ultimate bot horizon theory? :rolleyes:
Sorry...what exactly would that be? lol
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In regards to the first topic, I don't think we have to worry about RWTers becoming too powerful. Don't forget, that as a failsafe, Jagex could always just reinstate the trade limit. Thus making RWTer's efforts once again useless.
personally, free trade is overrated, and I think more and more people are realizing what mistake they made by voting yes on the free trade reinstatement poll. At least that is what I've seen from the RSOF.
Honestly, I don't want to see the rage when they take out free trade and wildy again...and I don't think it will happen. I honestly doubt that, no matter how bad botting or RWT is going to become, as long as they get enough money from membership revenues, they will not take it out again. Even if it should ruin the game for a large number of legit players. They only took it out last time because of credit card fraud, and it seems like they have something against that now - but not against botting and RWTing in itself. Why should they care, they get their $
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i never said it's okay. i'm sayint that's the way it is, and you have to adapt until jagex gets their [cabbage] together.
i don't get your second point.
Of course the only way to deal with it is somehow adapting if Jagex doesn't change anything...but isn't that exactly the point? That Jagex SHOULD change something? That their passiveness(sometimes more like encouraging) way is NOT right?
My second point is that, if you don't do something you would like to do in RS because of bots, then something is seriously amiss. If bots grow so bad that, let's say every yew tree(or chinchompa hunting spot or w/e) is too crowded to do the certain skill, then that means bots are forcing legit players out of their playstyle. This is, imo, in NO way acceptable and should really be fought against. True, there will always be a certain percentage of bots in rs, but as long as they don't suppress the legit players then it's not a big deal. With the current situation, bots do suppress legit players in some ways though.
Tip.It Times - 10th April 2011
in General Discussion
Posted
:thumbup: