Tyggna

I want to talk about the difference between science and experience for a bit, and how it applies to something like Runescape. Experience is universally applied--no matter what situation you're in. Experience comes simply from doing something. For example, I am experienced with using a computer in a variety of different ways. Consequently, I tend to navigate through file systems and the web much faster than people who aren't as comfortable with it. Experience is easy to get--at stays with you through you lifetime. Science isn't the same thing--but the two are related. Science is factual. The main difference between science and experience is that science is transferable. Science is communal in nature. Science has a few different stages to it: Hypothesis, Experiment, Data, and Theory. Theory is the best way to communicate, because it is easy to remember and yields a lot of information. When you can put it into an equation format, and your equation yields results effectively identical to what is observed, the theory is sound and can be used. In "doing" science, you gain experience, and experience improves the quality of the science. In Runescape, there is a lot of experience. You're even given a score for it (XP). The problem with experience is that it is non-transferable, and anything you gained with it will stay with your character, and will be lost when you stop playing. Consequently, there is almost no complete science in Runescape. Tip.it has some of it in their beastary. Beastary is a gem of knowledge in Runescape--and really only lacks estimates for drop probabilities (which would require an immense amount of science and investment). Players with experience can make better hypothesis than those without--and usually can provide invaluable input into experimental design. What we lack in Runescape is experiment, data and theory. No body seems interested in simply writing down how much they hit for, on average--or how much they gain per hour. This is strange to me, since every other MMO I've played has not been lacking in experiment, data, or theory. Every other MMO has begun providing a Damage-per-second statistic in your character sheet--something that evolved entirely out of game theory. Anyone who plays knows that there are many more important things involved in combat than Damage Per Second--but it's become the holy grail of combat metrics and capability because it is useful. Nobody could tell me what the average DPS of a combat level 100 with an abyssal whip is, because no one has bothered to record their data. What we lose in not doing science on an MMO is a clear path for improvement. Experience knows only what is, but usually has very little insight into what could be. Data and theory can give us some hint of that. Knowing that the highest DPS available in Runescape is 15 damage per second would give us a clear understanding what going from 8.3 DPS to 8.7 DPS means. This would make our knowledge of the game transferable, and would make Runescape more fun to play for everyone. Lastly, it'd give the developers a good idea of what values could be tweaked to make the game more exciting. If we knew what effects disease had on our DPS, or the average difference between earth and fire spells when fighting metal dragons, then we could give a clear indicator for an "upgraded" form of a monster for Jagex to develop. Making our observations known would enable Jagex to clearly know what kinds of spells we want, and what kinds of enemies and items would make the game more interesting. So, like I said, Science is communal, and everyone benefits from it.

May sound corny--but I just want to help. I enjoy playing video games, but some MMOs are frustrating when you first start because everyone else is so far ahead of you, and so few people are willing to help. It's hard to really feel like you "fit in" when you first start and MMO, and I'd like that not to be a problem with Runescape.

Swamped So, being a father, a college student, and full-time employee leaves a person with surprisingly little time for games. The nature of my job leaves me enough downtime to sneak in Runescape here and there, but recently that just hasn't been an option. I want to do so much more with Dragon Share, but I just don't have the time to do it. If only I were 15 again, and my homework only took me about 10 minutes every night. <sigh> Well, also, I started playing Runescape a bit differently than I ever have before. Normaly, I mine and smith as a way of winding-down from the work day. Recently, I've been doing nothing but quests. I only did quests, in the past, when I was going stir-crazy in the mines or at the blast-furnace. I think it's time to go back to that. I'm still only level 81 in smithing, and I have 840k left until 85. That's not a small chunk of time. I really think I'm gonna go back to that. Skilling has always been, and very likely will always be my favorite part of Runescape.

I decided to use the actual blog feature. Blogs are a great alternative to keeping a journal. I want to have this journal so I can one day look back and point out what I did right and what I did wrong and learn from that. As this is a Runescape oriented blog, I want this to specifically keep and account of how I made a successful clan. I want to share what knowledge and principals I have on this matter of in-game social dynamics. The first observation was that online groups follow a similar social dynamic as that of street gangs. What draws someone to a gang--presuming that not all gangs are harmful entities? My experience with teenagers and youth have led me to believe one important factor in that is a lack of family influence. Many gang members get involved in such because one of Maslow's basic needs are not met within a family unit. This leads them to search elsewhere for their need, and if a gang happens to be the most readily available source for filling that need, then it becomes the primary method of doing so. So, what does everyone need? Why do people seek out online communities? Well, if they are using a computer, it is usually safe to assume that they are not chronically suffering from hunger or thirst. Safety is a possibility though. Maybe playing a game while hiding from some perceived danger in their life is a coping mechanism. The people who come into a guild or clan for safety reasons may not find a lasting source of filling that need at all. The best that I believe I can do in those cases is to show them that I trust them, and to give them a position of trust. Doing so helps them gain confidence, and might lead them to searching for better sources of security than gaming. The next need in that pyramid is a social need, or a need to feel loved. I don't feel like the pyramid imagery is appropriate with this need--as it is something we, as humans, will always seek more of--where as there is a limited measure of physical fulfillment that we can reach. People will always want to feel a greater sense of belonging, and a greater love. Whatever form that love takes, we'll want more of it. Filling this need for gamers is very easy--give to them. Giving of yourself shows charity--which is a high form of love. Give time to help them, give in game items to help them. Give, give, give, and only give because you want to. Doing that will help gamers feel like they belong, like they are loved in a way that is appropriate for an online gaming community. Admittedly one of the reasons why I am working so hard to establish this clan, is the self-esteem needs, which are next on the pyramid. These involve recognition and prestige. Every body likes to finish a job when it was done well, and we are all more interested in being compensated for it. To fit this one into the clan social dynamic, rankings were added. Many rankings are easier to get than others--which helps players gain that recognition. Studies have proven that games with a few easy-to-get achievements sell better than those of similar quality that lack such points of recognition. Self Actualization is another way of saying enlightenment. That's the real goal of this clan--to help fill the needs of others, and teach those whom you help to do the same. In doing this, they realize that filling the needs of another helps them fill their own. People who you have helped are more likely to help you when the need arises. People who you've shown concern for, will be more likely to return the favor. Some people would like to intellectually interject at this point that not all people will respond in a positive way. I'm inclined to believe that is wrong--or rather not complete. I believe that people will respond in a way that is more positive than their usual inclination. Some people have the habit of being mean and taking advantage of others. If you offer up something to them, without any strings attached, they will be inclined to take less advantage of you. If you continue doing so in the right way--such that it fills their needs--then their responses will grow increasingly positive. So, that is what I'm hoping for with this Dragon Share clan--being a positive influence on all.

If you give a mouse a cookie. . . 99 feels so far away still. I have 10m xp left to gain on mining, and 11m left for smithing. I was skilling, quite contently, until I got involved with setting up a clan. Let me tell you, do to it right, it is no small feat! Maybe I'm just being too picky--but I know what I want in a clan/group, and I know what it takes. The first requirement: a calendar for posting clan events. Nothing like this exists in Runescape--so what's the solution? Well, if you're a programmer (like me) with experience in web-apps (like me) then you register a domain, and either write or install an existing open-source calender app. Well, if you're making it a website, then it has to look good, so you come up with artwork that fits your name, and a style fitting the game you play. If it already has artwork, it might as well have some interactivity on the page, right? So, you add in drop-down AJAX style menus for ease of navigation. Once that's done, you realize that you wanted your clan to be more than just your, "hey, lets do stuff together!" clan, so you figure out that you're gonna need some pages that really highlight your ideals. Well, while we're highlighting our ideals, lets just make a formal clan-charter with an outline of how you want the clan to be run after your character is dead and buried (when Runescape 3 comes out?). If we have a formal charter, then we're gonna need a forum where we can offer advice and constructive criticism within our own clan, so you go out and find a forum application. Well, if we have a forum, we obviously care about communication right? Well, forums are great, if you want responses within a day or so--but what about when actually are just "doing stuff together?" Sharing personal info, like email addresses and IM names is out of the question since it's against the rules. So if you're like me and spent more than a year in system administration, you setup a voice-chat server for your clan to use. So, now that my project at work is nearing completion, and the official Dragon-Share.com is almost up, I'm finding that I have done more work than my current membership would need. Oh well, I'd rather overkill in apps and be prepared for massive growth than underkill and be struggling to keep up with the growing need. So, Dragon Share will have a lot of perks to it. I think the ventrilo server will work well for the time being, as no master has more than 8 apprentices right now. Just had to post that to get all that off my chest. I've been working on this clan site and the other clan benefits until about 1:00 AM each night :)

Dragon Share I am starting a new guild. It is a unique style guild from any other clan/group I've ever encountered, and I doubt anyone has ever made one quite like this before. Specifically, I want a clan that is designed to help new players. I have a framework established for this clan. It'll be an apprentice-master setup, where the more senior members take on new members and help them out by giving them specific forms of help, and helping them set realistic goals. Of course, there will be conventional clan dynamics--such as clan raids and other group-friendly activities in RS. Also, because we all play RS a little differently, it'll have a route for advancement for combat, skill, and socially focused players. The most recent draft of different clan ranks, their requirements, benefits, and obligations are posted here. I'm taking on apprentices now (yes, that means I give you free stuff), to help me refine this sheet with the intention of offering greater help to new players. When I have it well established, then I want to create a second tier clan meant for more advanced members. The unique part of this guild is that, by entering, you implicitly agree to give to other players. As I am fairly wealthy in RS, I have every intention of giving freely of my wealth until other players can see the virtue in doing so. I remember how hard it was for me (years ago) to get a full adamant set. Now, it's trivial--it takes 10 minutes tops. What is 10 minutes to me, represents 2-3 hours for a new player. My experience with the master-apprentice setup has shown me that the trade limit isn't a problem. You're on each other's friends lists, and you train/quest together naturally. The master gives information while the apprentice trains--and you just happen to be killing the same monsters on the same world. The master is entitled to some benefits from the apprentice (like free rune-running, and other similar tasks), and the apprentice receives gear that is easily obtainable for someone of their master's level. Beyond that, it's a way to develop lasting friendships inside of Runescape. Starting a new game is frustrating, and nobody likes to be called a noob. This is a solution to that problem. A few hours of patience on the part of a master can mean a life of enjoyment for a new player, and a life-long friend. Try it--find a new player and give them the best armor they can wear that is easily obtainable by you. I can almost promise that you'll have a new friend who will want to play with you within an hour or two. That is Dragon Share, and that is the guild. The cc for it is either Tyggna, dgn s, or DragonShare1 if you want to join. I'm also working on a website for it, and have registered both dragon-share.com and dragon-share.info (so it can be shared in runescape chat without filters). For now, I want RS players who want to use RS to make friends, and don't mind spending time doing so. PM me, message me in RS, or reply on this blog if you're interested in getting this started--or if you have ideas that could make this better.

Back to Smithing So, mining runite turned out to be more or less a bust. I can make just as much mining runite per hour as I can smithing addy bars--and the exp is better too. There is one last thing I want to try before giving up on it--but in the mean time, I needed a break from mining. Mining gold for a whole week really did drive me mad. So, I went questing again. I'm almost done with recipe for disaster, I just need to kill a level 223 black dragon, and I did legend's quest, along with the quest lines involving evil Dave (who is probably designed in honor of the average level 136 player :). Those rs developers make me laugh every time I do a quest. So, with my gumption back, I'm armed and ready to smith/craft/alch all that gold I got. When I'm done, I'll be about 1m richer, and have around level 77 magic and level 68 crafting. 10k gold ore left!

I know it seems like I'm not adding many entries--but there is a good reason for that. Remember how I said I didn't like the tip.it forums layout controls for tables and wanted to use html <table> tags? Well, I'm taking it one step further and setting up a mysql database. The reason for this is that the price of items you are making changes every day, thus changing the gp/hour stat. Half the entries in that regard are already invalid. So, I've been programming a GE download script and it's almost done--it gets the data just fine, all it needs is the mysql table to put it in. So, this way, the guide will be accurate with the most recent GE prices. After that's done, I'll come up with a convenient input system so it'll just be really easy to put all this in. I'll place the link for it at the top of this thread when I've got it all working.

Alright, this one is a big moment--so it deserves a narrative. The dwarfs have always been accommodating. I like them--they sold me my first rune pickaxe many years ago. I've ventured through many of their mine shafts, and helped them dig holes in even the darkest mountains. I went back to white wolf mountain to find out whether the coal veins had dried. A new chasm had opened up, and a rope lead down into a deep and dark abyss. I knew the perils down there, but armed with my pick, dragon armor, and the platebody given to me by the Varrock Librarian, I ventured forth. Driven by greed, I struck down the living rock to extract its wealth. When my lust for money subsided, I found joy in swinging my pick. I slept near the ropes, but never for very long--the rock kept calling to me. Farli, the dwarf, had worked a supply chain up so I could put my new found wealth straight in my bank. Clearly, he wasn't all there--something in the rocks had driven him mad long ago. He was never violent, but never really aware of what was happening around him. The rocks rose up and tried to keep me from extracting gold from their veins, but I struck them down. With each foe I defeated, the Living Rock Caverns grew darker. Day seemed to mesh straight into night, and time had little meaning. Some say you can go mad down there. You get to the point where you forget about everything in your life except mining. All that matters is getting the gold. I don't know how long I was down there, days, hours, months, it all seemed like the same thing. Perhaps I lost my mind, I really don't know. It wasn't until I discovered another dwarven tunnel to explore that I found my way out of it. In this tunnel I found the fabled Runite glowing in the walls. I spent many arduous hours, but to my surprise, my time facing the living rock had given me new insight into the techniques of mining. I was able to break the ore free from the rock! I searched out other veins, and after a while, I had all the runite I could carry. That's right, I hit 85 mining today ^.^. I made about 1m mining runite, but world-hopping is so incredibally boring. Turns out it's not much better for making money than smithing Addy bars. So, I'm gonna use the 12k gold I got from leveling for so long, and get my mining up to level 83. From there, addy bolts until I can smith runite bars. Smithing is a great skill :).

Back to the salt mines: My entire runescape life comes back to mining. I took a break from smithing and mining to quest for a bit. I am proud to report that I finally finished Monkey Madness. I started that quest about three years ago. When I died at the demon, I lost a lot. It was a pretty big blow financially, considering that my highest skill at the time was level 71 mining. I couldn't make money very quickly at all. It took me about a week of rather low-hearted playing to earn back what I lost. By the time I did, I decided to take a break from Runescape. That break lasted about two and a half years. I started this blog shortly after picking Runescape up again. Needless to say, I was content to do nothing but work on skills for quite a while. When I got sick of it, I decided to give it another go--this time with my abyssal whip in hand. Well, I did more damage than all the gnomes combined, and ate about half an inventory of Lobster to beat him. Fortunately, I didn't need any prayer potions--the battle was over pretty quickly. I've never felt so happy to get a "quest complete" dialogue box on Runescape. With this latest run of Quests, I got up to 166 quest points--now more than half way done. There are still a number of quests left--but I have a new goal, one that wasn't directly related to mining at first: I want a Saradomin Godsword. It's the cream of the crop for weapons, and (I've been told) that unlike the Abyssal whip and Guthan spear, it will allow you to train just strength and hp. I almost have a high enough level to wield it, and I have the smithing experience to make them. Godwars dungeon is, I'd wager, too far out of my league as a level 90, so I intend to just fork up the 74m for a hilt. The trick to this all is level 85 mining, a goal that I'm not terribly far from. Runite ore sells for 17k at the moment, and I estimate about 20min per inventory for it. That translates to about 1.2m/hour--which is more than double my best money-making activity. If I get to level 85 smithing as well, and sell Runite bars, then I can up that to about 1.7m/hour. 99 is a big goal, and it'll probably take me a long time to get my mining and smithing up to that--but getting to 85 is a good waypoint. Experience-wise, it is about 1/5th the way to level 99, but money making wise, it opens up a lot of possibilities in Runescape. So, I'll take a break when I hit 85 mining and get a dpick to smith up to 85. When I hit that, I'll just make runite bars for some time until I can buy my godsword. At that point, I just want to train my str up to 80-85 while doing slayer tasks. The Abyssal whip helped me out enormously--I can only imagine what a godsword will do.

Level 80 smithing I love how lucrative smithing is. It may be a slow skill to train, but gee it brings in the money. I have 1m worth of Addy bolts up on the GE now, and have sold about 3k addy bars. I made enough to buy an Abyssal whip before their cost shoots up further with the new Barbarian Assault stuff. So, I have some nifty new gear, and my typical 2m in the bank that I like to keep around. I'm thinking that I really should up that to 5m, but I don't know, I don't really do a lot with the money I make. Maybe I'll just crunch some numbers and get an idea of how much time/gold it'll cost to get to level 80 construction. Maybe if my house is cool enough, my wife will want to play with me--riiiight. Anyway, I reached level 80 smithing this morning. I wasn't aware that was the level required to smith godsword blades. No idea how to do that, or where I'd get one, or if it'd be profitable, but it's still a cool thing. I'm much more excited to start making Class 5 weapons and armor in stealing creation. That will be cool. In other news, I'm sorely tempted to be unfaithful to Runescape. I got a beta key for Star Trek Online, and I love every aspect of it (minus the bugs). I love the away missions, I love the space battles, the exploration, the environment. The biggest downside to it is that it's not an MMO I could play when I have nothing to do at work. The lifetime subscription is also appealing--as I am a long-term MMO player in general. The only short-term one I played was WoW because it was too addictive and was affecting my ability to be a good parent. STO I can't just walk away from though, and that'll probably be the deciding factor in whether I stay P2P in Runescape or not. At present, it's just a temptation, it probably won't happen.

Alright, I'm getting back to the guide I took a bit of a break for Christmas, and have got many of my levels higher. I also decided to start a blog about smithing and mining. I'm ready to get my stopwatch and calculator ready to make Runescape a better place :)

Oh, forgot I forgot to report how my slayer task went. Well, of the 49 dragons I had to kill, I believe the total cost of killing them was 470k. Fortunately for me, a Dragon plateskirt did drop towards the end of them, and that helped greatly to make up for the cost. It sold for 207k in the grand exchange. I made about 240k in dragon bones as well, so the few hours I spent there was clearly profitable. I also grossed about 80k in selling minor Rune drops. In total, I believe I grossed about 70k after all was said and done. While that isn't bad, and it is nice to do better than break even, it took me about three hours. I gained a magic level in that time (and used over 4k chaos runes to do so), and a slayer level. As it stands, that means, compared to my highest grossing task, that slayer xp was worth about .3 gold per xp, and the magic was worth 3.9 gold per xp. Hmm, well, compare that to high-alching gold bracelets and mining, that magic xp is only worth .75 gold per xp. Needless to say, I think I'm going to avoid magic-based slayer assignments in the future. Also, since I had a moment, I took the time to complete all the medium tasks for varrok. I doubt the second level armor is going to help me at all, since I smith addy all the time--but oh well, one step closer to varrok armor 3--just need a level 70 farming to get there. I'm going back to smithing--I want to reach level 80

Getting my mind back So, any one task repeated over and over can quickly suck the fun out of a game--hence my recent diversion into Slayer/combat. I've always felt a little ashamed of my combat level. I don't think I should ever feel that way, as I prefer to skill on Runescape anyway. I was level 74 for the longest time, until I decided I wanted to use some of the P2P gear out there (since, hey, I'm kinda paying for it). It didn't take long to get into the 80s, and I just reached combat level 90 today. Still, having a level 81 mining, and my highest combat stat of 73 (strength), is a little uneven. I know there are level 3s out there that put my mining level to shame, but, I still feel self-conscious running around with only a two-digit combat level. I first played Runescape shortly after it came out. For as aged of a player as I am, I'd like to boast a little higher visible level. Shame we can't all run around with our total level flashing above our heads. I don't think I'd feel so self-conscious sporting a 1450. If they did that, then I'd finally work to raise summoning and Runecrafting up another 20 levels. I guess the only real solution to my problem is to get a skill cape. No one in their right mind should call a player boasting a skill cape a noob.

Iron Dragons are a bad way to get iron Well, I did exactly as I planned. I got to level 81 mining, level 79 smithing, gained three levels of crafting, and 4 magic levels. When I did that, I went and fought Iron Dragons in Brimhaven dungeon. Armed with antifire potions and an anti fire shield it wasn't very dangerous. I killed eleven iron dragons while testing out various combinations of runes to find the most economically viable way to kill them. You get 5k per dragon base, because they always drop dragon bones. It requires (at lvl 70 magic, with a full mystic set) either 40 blood runes and 200 air runes per dragon, or 75 chaos runes and 300 fire runes to kill an iron dragon. The Chaos runes are more economically viable, as it makes the costs of killing a single dragon about 9k instead of 18k with the blood runes. For each dragon, you can pretty much count on an 7k base return per dragon from the iron bars and bones that it drops. Most people don't bother with 1.4k worth of iron bars as it takes 5 inventory spaces. If it were noted, that'd be much cooler, as you wouldn't have to empty your inventory every three kills. So, passing up the iron, you have a 5k base value per kill. Of course, doing this makes me want to watch the drops, and extract various probabilities of drops. I'd like to derive a statistically viable expected value of return on the variable aspect of dragon drops--but I would need to kill probably about 5-20k dragons to get a decent sample size, and that means I stand to lose as much as 80 million in this process. So far, I've killed 11 dragons, and have grossed 86k. It doesn't quite cover my cost for runes (I won't use blood runes any more though), antifire potions, and transit costs (875 to get into the dungeon is lame). I have, as of yet, lost about 14k on killing dragons. Still, it is fun killing dragons. I think I'm gonna start carefully recorded my drop data for iron dragons, and hope that I can get this slayer assignment again :) Also, I want to try this with the fire wave spell, level 75--but I'll need to mine up to level 84 to have enough gold to smith/craft/alch for that. I'll chip away at it, of course.

yeah, it is a little faster--but p2p also has the blast furnace, which smelts whole inventories at a time. It isn't much slower, and it saves a bunch of money on nature runes.

It all comes back to mining. . . So, I decided after hitting 80 that I'd take a break from mining/smithing for a bit, and work on combat and summoning. A player with a summoning skill cape recommended that the best way to do that is to train Slayer with combat, and then use the charms from that. That's really a great idea. However, it didn't turn out so well for me. I remember that I trained range on banshees almost a year ago (when I quit playing) and wanted more of a challenge. I did the Smokin' kills quest, and got an assignment from that slayer master: 49 Iron Dragons! I've never fought a metal dragon before, and I didn't even know where to find one. So, I did some research online. After reading up a bit on the dungeon in Brimhaven, I decided I'd go in. One guide had erroneously posted that there would be plenty of places to range from down there. Wow, whoever posted that was a complete moron! There is nothing down there to protect you. I lost a good number of steel arrows my first trip down. I took an anti-fire shield, just in case--but you can't use a bow and a shield at the same time. My jaw dropped when the first hit I took was a 53! So, never again will I ever ever ever EVER refer to the runescape wiki for guidance with new monsters--I lost faith in Tip.it, and that is where I failed. My second time down only went a hair better. I took an antifire potion, but didn't get a chance to drink it in time. I lost some throwing knifes. My third time was a success! I didn't die! I took trash armor (I can smith full mithril, so I made myself a set of that), an antifire shield, air battlestaff, and some blood runes with an antifire potion. The dragons can't hurt you if you keep your distance, use magic, an anti-dragon shield, and a potion. They do no damage--and the potion lasts about 6 minutes per dose. I was very excited--except, I didn't do any damage to the dragons. One of the players down there was kind enough to tell me that only earth and fire spells would work. So, I'm still four magic levels away from Earth Wave, and the best way to train Magic is (arguably) alchemy. Well, alchemy is a great supplement to smithing, and smithing needs mining. So, I did a quick calculation, and found that I could make 250k by mining gold, crafting bracelets, and alching them. It works out that I'll have enough bracelets for alching if I mine concentrated gold up to level 81. Doing so will get me almost two levels in smithing in the end, and four levels of magic--with a bit of profit when all is said and done. So, I'm back down in living rock caverns--mining gold so I can smith, so I can alch, so I can train slayer. Funny how that works :) I know I could just use death/chaos runes instead, but death cost more than blood, and for me, it's weaker spells. Besides, my real goal is to have fun with this game. Also, compared to mining coal, gold is faster xp. It's a good way to go about things. This way, I get crafting, smithing, mining, magic, slayer, more magic, and eventually more combat xp--so I think I'll stick with this plan. It makes me wonder. . .how much gold would I have to mine to get to level 99 magic? (did the math, it turns out: 169678 gold will get me to level 99, which will gain me enough smithing xp to get to level 97, enough xp to get crafting to level 88, and enough magic to get to level 97, I would need 192284 gold bracelets to get to level 99 magic. Based on my current speeds, that is about 300 hours of mining, 300 hours of smithing, 300 hours of crafting, and about 280 hours of alching. There are about 300 hours in two weeks time, so I would need to do nothing but sleep and play runescape for about 16 weeks to get to that point--what an epic waste of time that would be)

I reached level 80! So, stealing creation I can mine c5 now, and I'm now 360k xp away from being able to smith it. This is my first skill to get over level 80. Living Rock turned out to be awesome! Unlike mining at the guild, where it needs part of your attention, LVC requires about as much attention as fishing. I have to keep my eye out for strikers and protectors, but other than that it was just very chill. I ended up watching a good deal of Stargate SG1 on hulu. I didn't start watching that series until it was already over--so I'm about half way through season 5. It's also nice that I have two computers, and three monitors between them. It makes playing Runescape pretty easy, as I can do very simple tasks even while I work (I'm a programmer, so thinking through and debugging a problem is the bulk of my day). So, now I'm onto the blast furnace. I'm so glad I can use Sacred Clay when smithing. It just isn't viable for mining--the picks wear out too soon and make it so you actually lose xp while mining with it. With smithing, it's a great boost to xp, and your hammers last more than the 20 minutes it takes to get one. So, off I go to smith.

So, on the Living Rock numbers: At my level (78), it takes about 3m 30s to mine a full inventory. When you do the math, it works out to about 130k gold/hour, and about 24k xp/hour. At that rate, it'll take about 480 hours to get to level 99. Lets see, if I mine for about an hour and a half every day for a full year, then I might get close. I'm sure things will speed up when I hit level 80 and can mine gold--but that is still about 13 hours away at this rate (9 if I power mine iron). I think I'll stick with living rock though, because I can do other things while mining there (like play Wii). So, it'll be a good week or two before I update this again with my discoveries on the benefits of mining gold at living rock caverns.

Living Rock Caverns So, I went to Living Rock Caverns for the first time today. That place is amazing! I'm anxious to time how long full inventories of coal take on average, and what the pay off is from it. I mine coal in about 80% the amount of time it took in the mining guild for F2P. My current objective is to reach level 80 mining, and while in the cavern for about 20 minutes, I got 3% closer to my goal (the original goal amounted to about 370k xp). I even took out my first two living rock monsters using nothing but my bare rune-pickaxe! The first one was level 120, and I beat him without any food (not bad for a combat lvl 89). The second one, I used a protect from melee prayer on, and he was level 140. If I had an abyssal whip or something like that, I could probably get some decent xp and gold off them. They drop 1k worth of loot as a bare minimum. I read about the Living Rock Patriarch--I'd like to take on one of those sometime. I think Living rock and I are going to be good friends for a while. I still don't want to be down there alone, so I'll stick with world 84 until my combat level is higher.

I have an ambitious goal of level 99 mining and smithing. I've had my Runescape character since the beginning of 2002, and figure it's about time I bite the bullet and powerlevel like mad. Unfortunately, I work full time and am a part-time college student, and have very little time to play. I really like numbers, too. Right now, I am at 1,660,442 mining XP (so I'm about 1/7th the way to level 99), and I have 1,584,606 smithing XP. By my estimations, it will take me at least 600 hours of game play to get to level 99 mining. Smithing seems easier to me. The Sacred clay hammers last a long time, and I can always make a profit off of that skill (I can make Addy bolts ^.^). Mining, however, is much harder. I just can't decide what the right balance is. I drove myself stark-mad about three years ago leveling mining with Coal as a F2P player in the mining guild of falador. I got to about level 70 doing that. Since then, I've found more creative ways of leveling mining. I really enjoy the falling stars miniquest--as your mind needs to be lightly engaged to do it, but the XP isn't as good as power mining. I've spent about 30 hours power-mining Iron (Port Khazard and Piscatoris). Sadly, I can't give up money for XP, so I've been banking a ton too. I have 3k iron in the bank right now, and I just don't know what to do with it. I'll probably either GE it, or make it into steel platebodies and high-alch them. Any ideas?

I just got to say, this guide is going to be a TON of work--on a number of levels. Just trying to do the agility arena again by only going through the level 1 obstacles almost drove me nuts. It took me about two hours to get a sufficient number of data points--all the while laughing at myself. I have a level 51 agility, and can pass any obstacle, and rarely miss a ticket opporunity. It was so hard to only hit about one ticket every five minutes--I almost cried. The mining and smithing guides are fun for me. I've always enjoyed those--and was pleasantly surprised with the results from the Adamantite bar smithing. I've made about 2 mil since I discovered that, and will keep saving up so I can invest in equipment needed to get this data. If you want to invest any of your time or skills to this--please message me in game. I need people of all levels to get the most complete results--Level 1-99 in any skill welcome!

Oh, I hope the tip.it admins don't mind, but I also do some web-development, so I'm gonna start sticking this stuff into a MySQL database and write a querying front-end so people can search for stuff on it to. When it's done, if they want to add it, I'll be happy to give a copy of the database and the access scripts so they can put it on tip.it.

Just making sure: That's: 32.5k/hour xp at rimmington/piscatoris with 0 gold (I'm assuming you don't drop it off) using a rune pick axe? Likewise, no GP from granite mining. Was there any gold involved in woodcutting and fletching?