Systemless

This could be solved easily. Just add more items to the shop the cost more. Add crowns or hats of others styles with prices up to 2bil and a feature to upgrade items (like in the magic training arena shop). This should be enough expensive for some time to satisfy even the richest. About the "value loss discussion". Maybe the problem lies within the definition of "value". For me a value in the end is something someone would work for, so the value with respect to work. And the value is not lost if it changse just its owner. First about the bank notes. Yes many currencies are no longer backed up by gold. But there are other guaranties to back them up. And just imagine what would happen if we destroy all banknotes of a currency. What value is destroyed (beside the paper that would need to be reprinted)? All goods, gold, machines, art everything valuable in a country would still exist. So where is the value missing the has been taken out of the system? Ok there would be some chaos without the currency, but that's something different. And that there is no value bound to the existance of a banknote can be seen as well, when countries started to print more and more banknotes. By doing this there hasn't been any value added to the system, it was just redistributed. If the stock markets crash 20% then this is due to the fact that people believe that they overestimated the value in the past. It's difficult to say wether a value is lost in this situation, depends again on the definition wheter the "someone" is a real person or an abstract objectiv person. There can be many reasons for economic times of recession or depression. You don't need to destroy a value (simple case: burn down some factories) to enter some recession or depression. So, sorry but I would still say that it is ruther those 2bil or less that get removed instead of the 100bil. But maybe we have just too different views of what a "value" is. And I couldn't find any generaly valid and usefull definition for "value" atm. I ment to say that intially they are likely to crash as investors get their money out of the rares (as rares won't go up anymore). After that, the market prices will eventually stabalize slightly below the shop selling price. All that will probably take a while before the first rare is actually bought from the shop. After that people will slowly continue to buy rares from the shop at a speed that is needed to keep the market price slightly below the shop's selling price. The initial crash can be avoided by setting the shop prices high enough. If we add a shop today selling a blue phat at 400m I am pretty sure nothing would happen. The price would continue to rise for a few weeks or month and the settle around 380-390m or something. I am sorry if I repeat myself. Most of it is due to different people throing in the same arguments that have been discussed already. Give me convincing arguments and it won't go on ear in and out the other. It is difficult to keep the difficulty the same over time. And yes Jagex hasn't been always doing very well with it. But that does not mean it is not possible to do. I can imagine a game where the skills and ways to train them are very limited in the begining. Later on more ways to train are added, more places are added. But as long as the best xp per hour remains the same even with new ways of training added, the difficulty remains about the same as well. The problem with Runescape is, that it has originally never been designed to go this far and long. There are many flaws in the original design. Some have been fixed. The fixings have introduced some unfairness. Yes you are right here, for these there has been hardly any way to fix them without beeing unfair. But there are other unfair things, that can be made fair. What I said: "It is possible to make it at least as close to "the same" as possible." You can't say no here. It is always possible to do something as good as possible. It may be far from fair, but still why not going into the direction of making it fairer? Sorry that I need to say it again: I did NOT suggest to delete all rares from the game. And even if we would, I am pretty sure that the raw materials would not skyrocket (just rise a bit maybe). What you get back from the alching of items remains the same. It would not completely unbalance the game, since this is not possible due to open system with fixed shop prices. But to be honest, I don't want to speculate about what would happen in this case. It may or may not, I don't care. It's a completely different scenario. I personally doubt that they would fall. Again think about the effect of adding a shop selling blue phats 400m each today. Would prices really stop at the current level and start falling. Or would the go up till they are near 400m and the start falling. And if 400m is too low, what would happen in the case of a price of 1bil? But to avoid them falling an option for the shop to buy them back could be added. That way not only the top, but also the bottom value would be caped. Rares "suck" as armour and some of them are not very desireable aesthetically as well. So I would say that they can be compared. But anyway, I don't know which part about the dragon chain argument you would call absurd. I know that there are other big problems in Runescape. But to me the rares problem, does not look neglectable. And it is one of those problems that still could be fixed, where Slayer and the KQ can't. I didn't say its the biggest problem atm. But it is one, not neglectable and it could be fixed. I have seen it happen, but many moths ago. One reason may be there price, the other that I get rarely to f2p these days. @WrathMonkey: Simply by adding a rares shop as described in this thread. You can moderate prices by setting up shops. Sorry that it got this long again. I hope I didn't repeat myself too much, and thx for your patience while reading and for your responces. .: Systemless :.

Maybe I wasn't precise enough. What I wanted to point at is that fact that most great goals are achieved already. All those goals about beeing the first to achieve a level, xp amount, balancement of levels, hiscores. Most that can be imagined is done already. For most you won't get any reward (full smith, slayer soon as well, ...) anymore, and for most you won't get any respect either. You can do it for your own personal goal. But it is a mmo game, not single player. Then there are other goals like getting a huge pile of gp. You don't even need to get the largest gp pile in runescape. Maybe you just want to come into the same region as your friend that started playing earlier. But you don't have a chance, or you need to work 7 times more then he did for the same. Another goal could be getting a rare. One that your friend got some time ago. Again, you won't make it most probaly. Now there could be other goals, but most of the goals that are linked with having a lot of cash (either direct or indirect) are out of reach for newcomers, even when they pot a lot more effort into it then anyone else. Maybe this is a peronal thing. But to me it is not very motivating - still I play already for some time. Perhaps for some players its even worse (Sorry this is a bit offtopic :?). About the "beeing bound to one world" concept. Yes it has many drawbacks as well. The number of players in your virtual world is smaller (maybe an advantage as well, when it comes to communitys, avoiding beeing annonymous and scaminng ...). Old worlds tend to get old and empty. Who would want to start playing on these - and with time players leave. I am not sure wether I really would want that in Runescape. There could be other ways to achieve the same effects (but again another topic :lol:). I read it, more than once. Very nice article and very nice graphs. :D I think you got me wrong there. What I wanted to say is: Deleting the rare items from the runescape database will destroy only a material value of about 20k items * 2 gp each = 40k gp. Ok maybe poeple would have bought them from shops even for 10k each because they look pretty good (useability value). That would make 200m, still nothing. Only for the rarity or the collectable value alone people would hardly pay the current prices. If Jagex would announce that the rares would be untradeable tomorrow, the price would crash completely, lets say to 100k each average. That makes a value of 2bil for all rare items. This is still nothing, compared to a total value (or deposit) of maybe ~500bil gp as you estimated. Now we can discuss wheter to take the material price or the material + useability + rarity value. But most of what people pay for rares, is what they expect to get back once they sell it. So it is more like a banknote in real life. By destroing all bank notes of a real currency (at least one that is backed up with gold), no value is destroyed (beside the paper value). It's just the distribution of the wealth amoung people that would get messed up, but no value destroyed. And this is the same with rares. Hardly any gp would be lost. You could still buy nearly the same amounts of runes with all ingame value (gp and items after alching), or the same amount of dragon longs, after deleting the rare items. I hope you see what I mean now (I have a bit a tough time with the English language at times, so sorry for writing it that complicated). Yes the gp that palyers payed to others for a rare (hoping they could get them back one day) would just remain with the current owner, without beeing reclaimed. And that would be pretty ... well can't write the word anymore. :P But what could the market do if there is a shop selling them at 130% of the current price. React with falling prices while only plain stupid people would buy from the shop. Without people buying from the shop the amount of rares remains the same, so why should then prices drop? I guess people would still like them as a way of "wearing all your bank" in terms of worth. Maybe the shop could have an option to buy them back at 80% of the current prices as well. This would be a dedication 100% towards the open economy system. Caould cause additional gps ingame, but if the open system works and has no loopholes (rares) then, it should be no problem. About dragon chains: Chains enter the game randomly. But controlable, and at user defined rates. If prices rise, more people will visit the kq, increasing the input of new chains. And the supply from the rares shop is not "that" limitless. You still need to make 100m gp before you can go there and buy a rare. The only difference to the chain is, that at the rares shop you got no random factor (which evens out with a big number of players anyway). We could as well make the shop with a random factor. Pay 100k for a chance 1:1000 to get a party hat. Then we have the same situation as with the d chains. You need to do some work to make the 100k or kill the kq and you get a small chance to get the valuable item. .: Systemless :.

next time, drop one mystic top, switch protect item on, say thx to a scammer and die away. but sorry for you loss. .: Systemless :.

After the first weeks of playing I would have liked to change it. But now its kind of part of my char, I want to keep it. I like Systemless very much now. If I could choose again, maybe I would make a name without a meaning. .: Systemless :.

No, not because they can not be obtained anymore. Because they are valued as a lot of cash. How does it come otherwise that a dragon chain is a status symbol as well, without beeing discontinued. It is because d chains are still very valueable. Ok they are not that big of a status symbol since they are "only" 22m, which is nothing to current rares, but they still are and have been for a long time a status symbol. And since the suggested shop would not devalue the rares, they could still be a status symbol. If they played the same amount of time (in hours) they should have about the same rewards (of course only if they have the same intelligency and all). The one that started earlier would still have the advantage that it is a lot easier to play more over a longer time span. First: Real world is unfair in many ways, no need to make the game unfair as well. Second: Stock markets are different in many aspects. The main difference is that the increase in value is "financed" with an increased productivity obtained from the investment. Runescape increase of value is financed by the inflation versus fixed shop prices mechanism. Third: The risks you take in real world stocks are a lot higher if you want the same "profit" as in runescape. It is possible to make it at least as close to "the same" as possible. Yes with some bugs that have been added to the game - I still don't have a clue how Jagex could miss the charging thing for years - this can't be undone. There can be some changes while preserving more or less the difficulty of the game. That is what Jagex tries usually. Sometimes they are not that sucessfull. At times they need to nerf some xp when they calculated it wrong in the first place. Why not try to make it the same with the rares? .: Systemless :.

Well they tried, but they made a few severe mistakes in the first releases. There is hardly any conservation law in Runescape, except for the Rares. The number of rares are maybe the only thing that actually is more or less constant (slightly less with time I know). The rest of Runescape is designed as *open* system. Gps and items flow in and out of Runescape as poeple force them to. Now a world without conservation laws is not impossible to imagine. But it can be difficult to balance. If we would just delete all rares today (note: this is NOT what I suggest), nothing valueable would be lost. The "value" in gp taken out of Runescape by deleting the rare items would hardly be a few mils. But the distribution of the gp (or the right to get them) would be massivly redistributed among players, which is a very bad thing. And that is why I would NOT suggest to delete all rares. With a shop (selling them at prices of 100m each and up) this would still remain the same. I do NOT plan do remove or decrease the value of rare items. All I suggest is to stop them from further raising. Nothing more, nothing less. .: Systemless :.

As far as I know, price manipulation is only against the forum rules. To be precise only against the discontinued market forum specific rules. Any manipulation actually done inside the game or organized on external communities are legal (I am not saying that they are welcomed). It's a question of the point of view here. I say that two players (one playing 500 hours over 3 years, the other within half a year) should have the same chances. Atm, they do not have the same chance, and the rares advantage is actually (almost) closed for the second player. The question is wether we want to classify those two ways of playing the game as the same (beeing both play 500 hours) or as different since they play over different time spans. Yes but still a factor of 2 is not a minor neglectable factor. And this factor is with all that is to level out already, so its a different factor than what the number 5 has been calculated for. The risk on rares is within it and the faster making cash is already within it. And the number is pretty conservative as well. For f2pers it is a lot worse. You are right, the real question is not about the rares an the numbers. The real question is wheter we want a fair game or a virtual world. And how we want to define it as fair (see above). I personally see a problem with Runescape, that it becomes less and less attractive for newcomers to start playing. Ok, many newcomers will not notice this in the beginning. But later on they realize that there is no way to achieve some goals any more (rares). That there is no way to compete with older players, even if they play the game more time overall. There are some concepts in other games to take care of this problem (poeple are bound to the world they started playing in, allowing a fresh restart of the game for groups of new players, ...). There could be some solutions as well within Runescape. But still if we can't achieve a perfectly balanced game, should we not struggle into that direction? If we can't get the perfect solution, we still like to prefer a good over a bad don't we? They still have some use even if they are not discontinued. People use them as status symbol, as a way to actually "wear" there pile of cash. And it does not allow "anyone" to buy a rare more than "anyone" can buy one right now. I simplyfied that formulation (not without fearing coments like this one). Of course your intelligence and luck should determine how well you play as well. But one of the basic proportionalities in Runescape is, that reward is linked with the time played. You play two times as long (as a stupid player) you get two times the reward (long term). You play two times as long (as an intelligent player) you get two times the reward. The absolut reward is of course different for the two players. Maybe you should leave others their way of playing, and first think more about your posts yourself. .: Systemless :.

Thx for you answer, I appreciate it. Yes you are right the factor of 10 is a bit off. The top profit you can make with wise longtime investment is around the factor 10 (as a maximum). But the average which you would make by simple longtime investment is less, around 6 or lets say 5. I put this number 10 for simplicity here. But it's my bad it more like 5 then 10 for the discussed setting. I don't see a problem with the first point. Atm I think poeple are too focused on getting and sparing gp. And bascially there is no reason why there should be a reward for sparing gps in runescape. Without the gp-inflation and fixed shop prices setting there would be no reward for it. There could be a reward if you actually could increase your productivity by investing tons of cash. But there is no feature in runescape. About the second point. There are other items to merchant like chains or barrows. But yes, there are none that valueable. And those you need actually to "merchant" and not to "invest" to make cash. About the third point. It's maybe an overused word but still: "price manipulation". In real world stocks business (which is not 100% compareable to rares, but still) all going along the line of "insider business" and "price fixing" is highly illegal. Beside this real world markets are rather transparent for a reason (fake trades). In runescape this is legal and has been used too often. It may be an intresting thing to watch. But it has been used too often to the advantage of a few. Yes I know there are some weak parts. But not the fact that there are other highly unfair features like the first skill toping. Giving the monopol over important items or features into the hand of few is plain stupid. I don't know how this could happen with slayer. Or if it was intended this way. But other unfair features do not make the rares problem fair. Nor do they make it neglectable. The only real weak point I see atm with the "unfair rares argument" is the question: "Should the reward a player gets be based on the online time he plays the game, or as well on the years he played it and the overall time frame he played it". I would say that a fair game should aim to reward *only* the online time of a player. That means the reward *has* to be independent of the actual year and month you play it as well as the overall time-frame you play it. Now this is my point of view. And I am not 100% sure that this is the only reasonable. Now if you say that this is not required for a game to be fair, then you can drop all the rest of the "unfair game argument". That's wrong. That's again (almost) like saying, if you don't plan to interact with the macroing scene, then it has no influence on you. If some gain an advantage which is not open to others it is unfair, and it does influence them. Beside this, the fact that some people got rich with rares has an impact back onto market prices of other items. On the speed some poeple train skills *looks at construction skill*. It does influence me even if I ignore the rares market. If they invested their cash made back then, there work they did back than is valued (3 years = 5 * % * 5 = 125) as 12.5m / hour. Now comparing this to the 400k / hour one can make today I see a large gap. That's the gap where my motivation falls into. .: Systemless :. Edit: Oops within the last 3 years there has been the item dupe. That reduces the factore 125 to about 30 if one was "offline" while the dupe. But it is still 3m / hour versus 400k / hour.

Yes you can buy it. But buying it today and selling it tomorrow doesn't make any difference. That's what anyone can do. But buying today and selling after one year, or buying one year ago and selling now: This can do only very few. You don't need to play more than anyone else and still you got a huge advantage. An advantage that isn't available to all, making it an unfair advantage. No it is not. Stock market is based on the fact that with investing cash "now" you can increase your productivity. That means you can pay back the person that borrowed you the cash part of what you produce additionaly. Rares are more like collectables in the real world. With the difference that there is an almost unlimited amount of different types of discontinued items in real world, and that the collectables play only a minor role within the real world market. And I would not be that unhappy with the rares situation if the raising would be a factor 1.5 per year. But its more like a factor 10 per year. A thing ruther "rare" in real world stock markets. .: Systemless :.

If Jagex rewards the loyal players that is ok. But I think here the reward is going a bit too far. The reward is usually bigger than anything that can be achieved by "hand work" by a new player. Other problem is that Jagex does not really reward the 100% loyal players. Those that have been really loyal and droped or given away the rares as Jagex asked poeple to do, those are now without reward. It's a very strange thing with the rares. On the one side Jagex always claims that it is all player made. That they have nothing to do with the rares market. That they never intended the rares to become what they are. But on the other side: Who is protecting the rares market? Who has a "rares" section in their marketplace forums? Don't tell me that Jagex couldn't change it if they wanted. They protect it but don't want to be responsible for it :lol:. @Made0f12une: Yes very good point. The overly crowded training spots in todays f2p worlds are a problem. It doesn't help if you had theoretically faster xp today compared with rsc, but all the areas are crowded. And a more general thing. It's not that much about me beeing jealous about having or not having gotten any rares. I bought a few some time ago and I am pretty happy with what I have. The problem is more that my motivation to work for cash is lost due to the rares situation. Why should I work today 10 times as much for the same as one year ago? .: Systemless :.

You should not neglect the amount of cash that has been concentraded in the hands of the "high level" players due to rares. The cash redistributed in Runescape due to the presence of rares is NOT neglectable, which is a lot different to real world collectables. In the real world the percentual amount of cash redistribued due to collectables can be neglected. And this cash in the hands of the "high level" players have an impact back onto the raw materials market. So the role of rares in the runescape economy is not too small (in percent of cash volume transfered). I agree with you, that the views of the Runescape economy beeing "based on" or stabilized by rares and all that is nonsense. .: Systemless :.

Yes I agree that it was a lot harder to train back in rsc. The only thing slightly (only slightly) relativating this was, that firstly players in runescape now remember the rsc days as their low level days usually. I started in rs2 and still I remeber everything beeing super slow at the begining, but still it has been almost the same as now. My second note was that a player starting new with runescape will mess around as everyone did in the begining. It will take some (longer) time till he finds out about natures and all (and many including me played 0.75 years f2p at the beginning). So his first 1k will still be hard, even though they wouldn't need to be. Back at your time I am sure there would have been the one or other better "job" to do as well. But still your point is valid. I would say that your disadvantages in the past are more then compensated for by today. The big step in difficulty has been rsc to rs2. That is in the past, can't be really changed and has been compensated for (more or less). But for the future we could just stop the rares prices from further rising. Nothing more. .: Systemless :.

About the first poeple to get up in a skill to get a good reward while the late comers won't get anything at all usually: This is the second big problem I see. Very true. My view on that problem is that the reward should be more on non-tradeble features. It is a problem and it should be fixed as well (but it's too long to discuss here). Which would be the the positive sides of rares that would be destroyed by a rares shop? I see only two things changed. You can no longer make a profit from investing on them long term (ok those profiting from this will of course disagree with all). You can still make some "profit" by using your cash wisely and not wasting it all for useless things (educational aspect partly still kept). And there is no longer an "always moving upward" goal to achieve. But those are usually the players that reached it already that are happy with this one. To the shop one could add "new" more expensive "rares" for those that have beaten all (would be even better than the current situation). So the only thing really lost would be a few items less to merchant with, or have I missed something? .: Systemless :.

I personally fear that the effect of construction is not big enough. But I still hope that there will be some balance. The problem is that if I start playing now, I won't be able to start investing a few years back. That's where I see the unfair point. I am very aware of that (from my own bad experience). But in the long run, assuming there won't be another dupe, it is quite safe. True point. The not so good educational point is, that it learns as well, that making cash with your own hands (coal mining) does not pay off. Investing and watching it grow is the way to go. I am not so happy about this point. Interesting addition yes, but due to the lack to go back in time, the ways the rares market can be accessed are very different (unfairly). You can't compare using the game mechanics with breaking the rules. The rule is there to avoid the unfair advantage. All I wanted to point out is that having unfair advantages in the game is not the way to go. That's why this rule is there, it's illegal for a reason. And if rares are really an unfair advantage then they would have to be taken care of as well. I don't compare on the level of legality at the current situation. That on is clear. Macroing is no legal, rares are legal. No in my logic it is no unfair advantage either. If both invest the same amount of total playing time they get to the same point (more or less). Btw. thx for replying, I appreciate it very much. I am basically very open to any arguments. For me this is personally something I am very upset with and that needs to be cleared up. If it turns out not to be unfair I am happy as well. I just have a problem with my motivation to play on with my current view of the things. .: Systemless :.

And with disadvantage to get gp come all the disadvantages on those skills where cash helps a lot for training. I would say that's wrong. Two years agon it was easily possible to make 100k per hour (even with nooby skills). Two years now since, it is not at all possible to make 100k * 100 = 10m per hour. Not by far. And even if the factor 10 is too extrem. 2.5m per hour is still no way. It was worth more back than (which I admited in the first post already). But still compared to the increase rate of 10x per year it can be neglected. Because it may be a factor of about 1.5x per year. I never played rs1. I believe you that xp was hard to get back then. But never the less, don't forget that most of the old rsc players have been at a far lower level. And not every xp became faster. And those that became faster xp: Yes that's a point I am very unhappy with as well. It can't really. There are many old players that missed the rares advantage. And on the other hand there are quite a few that took the rares advantage without training for a long time on rsc. Quests are neglectable. Too easy to short. Very big problem, you are very right at that point. Thats a super unfair advantage there as well (but with solutions for the furture as well). With rares I talk about the furture only. The past is the past. But there is no need to keep going with the same mistakes. Beeing a level 3 is not easy. And for those starting now at level 3 making the first 1k still takes time. There are more than this rares aspect. But I still have the opinion that one needs to remove one unfairness after the other instead of keeping it known unfair and hoping it levels out somehow. .: Systemless :.

Done, I read most of it (the posts with thought). And yes its about rares as well. But the arguments and proposals are different. .: Systemless :.

As I outlined it does introduce an unfair advantage. And that's something that needs fixing. Ok, so you agree that I get out my little macroing codes to train without beeing at the computer? Its just a little unfair advantage, but why level it out? An advantage alone is no problem. But the advantage that players have that played this game now towards those that will start in two years (and play the same total amount of time) can not be accessed by those starting in two years. So its unfair. I have my own. And this is not the topic. Yes, getting the cash and buying a dragon items stands open to all players. It is an advantage open to all, making it fair. Real life is not a game. And yes real life is unfair. But why do we need to make this game unfair as well? And above all punish players for some unfair advantages while we tolarate others? .: Systemless :.

You can see this as whatever you like. But this is not hijacking. Whatever you mean with "hijacking on that other thread" in this seperate thread. It's about rares as well yes, that's all. I did talk about there presence of rares in Runescape giving an unfair advantage to players that play the game over a longer time period compared to players that play the same amount of time, but within a shorter period. Why it is jealousy? I have given clear arguments why it is unfair. You need to remove those arguments first. You do not need to play the game more to get the advantage. You need just to have played it over a longer period of time, to get the advantage. Those new have to work by FAR more than anyone else has for them in the past. I would call this unfair. No it doesn't. How should I motivate me to work 100 hours in two years when I know that I could have achieved the same with 1 hour today? .: Systemless :.

I see you got some very convincing arguments there. :lol: .: Systemless :.

Introduce Rares an unfair Advantage? I want to sketch a few thoughts which lead to the conlusion that rares introduce a kind of unfair advantage into the game. Now before flaming me for this unpopular conclusion, please read through all of it and give your critics about the sketched thoughts. Do not give any critics about my person or my account, they are NOT for discussion. From history we know that rare items increase by about a factor 10x in value measured in gp within one year. This increase is driven by the limited amount of rare items and the increasing amount of gp in the game. This could be called inflation on the gp as well. Looking only at the gp and the rares in game, the gp gets devalued (by a factor of 10x a year) while the rares remains the same. This is one side of the runescape market. On the other side we have the shops and the high alching. In this part of the market the value of one gp remains approximatly the same (slightly decreasing, but this can be neglected). Here we compare the gp one obtains from an hour of work or the items one can buy in shops for gps. There are still more and more gps in the market, but here a gp does NOT get devalued. The shops and the highalching charge/give about the same amount of gp since years. But the gp in both "sides" of the market are actually the same. This means we have an inflation on the gps, causing the rares prices in gp to go up, but all the npc shops do NOT increase there prices. On the one hand this fixed shop prices have the nice property that I can earn 1m from highalching today, and in two years I can still buy good items from shops for this. This would not be the case with real inflation. So far it is fair, one can invest some time and get an appropriate reward for it (now or later). But at the same time one could have bought rares for that 1m and sold it for 100m after two years. Since the shops ignore the inflation one would be able to get 100x the reward. This seems ruther unfair. Lets look at the situation after two years. One player has earned his cash one day before he is going to buy items with it, while the other player has earned it two years ago. They worked both exactly the same, but still one of the two gets 100x the reward. Two summarize, we have the following setting: A stable currency of approximatly constant amount beeing the rares. A strongly inflating currency beeing the gp. A normal market between rares and gp. A fixed price exchange between player time and gp. A fixed price exchange between reward and gp. This leads to an unfair game, where the reward you get for your work does not stay the same with time. To fix this situation we could try to remove the increase in amount gps, resulting in a constant gp to rares ratio. This is what is beeing tried atm with introducing additional cash sinks. It is very difficult system to blanance, and I doubt that it will be successfull. If successfull the inflation on the gp would be removed and we would be back to a fair game. But the game is in its very foundations desgined to have an open market. One where large amounts of gp can flow in and out. And I fear the balancing will fail. There is another solution. If the ratio between rares and gp is constant in the game (with respect to player demand) we would have again a fair game. To achieve this we need to integreat the rares into the open system concept of Runescape. Making them no longer rare but still expensive. Adding a shop selling rares a bit above the current market prices would stop the rares from further rising in price once they hit the shop price. From then on players would automatically buy new additional rares from that shop as needed to compete with the increased amount of gp in the game. Current "rares owner" would loose nothing. Almost nothing, the only thing they would loose is the unfair advantage compared to newcomers. This is only a sketch of thoughts. Do not flame me. And yes the discussion is not about me or wether I can afford rares or not (actually I can). .: Systemless :.

it's pretty fast, but I got a faster way, hehe :) Prepare: - Go f2p worlds and buy 2k oak logs (for about 50 each). - Get 25 charged glories ready Inventory: - 600k Cash (just enough ...) - 1k Law and Air Runes (just enough ...) - 1 charged glory The Runs: - Tele Edge, Get 24 Oak logs from the bank - Tele House - Give the Logs to your Servant to get them to sawmil - Tele Edge, Get 24 Oak logs from the bank. Because you leave the house the planks will return direct to your bank. - Tele House and so on. I guess you don't even need a fast Servant for this. .: Systemless :.

You aks me why I believed it was a fake when I first saw it? Here are my reasons: - Someone that wants to be fameous for alching a phat usually does not want to pay 60m for that bit of fame. Someone that quits runescape need no fame anymore, so doesn't post about it. - The phat has been alched at a very strange place. Why would someone choose this lonely place for such a big happening. - Looking closer at the GIF converted movie I saw that thing about the mouse cursor jumping exactly in the moment the thing gets alched and the screen switches. This is extremly rare to happen. It's not impossible, though its not yet a proofe for it beeing fake. But it's a lot more likely to come from faking it than actually from a real mouse. In the mean time, I got the original movie to work on my pc, and I looked at it carefully. First things I noticed: My guess that the text in the top left corner was missing in the GIF movie because it would be difficult to fake was wrong. In the original movie there is a text in the top left corner. But guess what, it is on a black background. Once more pointing very much into the direction of it beeing fake. After looking at it for some more time, I found the PROOF for it beeing FAKE: If you are just going to alch a Wizard hat, the text in the top left corner says "Cast high level alchemy on Wizard hat" Just after clicking on the item to alch the original options of the item is displayed "Wear Wizard hat / 3 more options" Now for the Blue partyhat the correct options would be: "Wear Blue partyhat / 3 more options" but look at the movie (here 2 screens): there it says: "Use Blue partyhat / 2 more options". This never happens for a real Blue partyhat. That means the alching of a Blue phat is fake. He just alched something at that place, and later edited the text in the top left corner and the inventory part of the movie to make it look like he alched a phat. As I said before, alching a phat to get some attention is quite stupid. Faking a movie about alching a phat to get some attention is even worse. Systemless PS: It would have been possible to fake it perfect at that place, but he did not do it. For me every movie is a fake that is recorded in a setting 100% perfect for editing and faking it, even if I can't find any mistakes.

To me this looks like a fake. Take a close look at the moment where he seems to start alching his phat. At the moment he would actually start achling, the mouse cursor jumps just 2 pixel. There he has cut the scene, from one with a mouse cursor pointing at the phat to one he actually alched something (else). I suppose the whole scene is recorded with alching actually something else at that place, and then later changed the inventory part of the screen to one with a mouse pointing at a phat. Why is the top left part (where it shows the name of the item) cut away? This could be faked as well, but it is much harder. Just faking the right half of the screen (wich is almost staic) is a lot easier. Alching a phat to get some attention is quite stupid (and hardly anyone that worked for the current value of a phat would do that). Faking a movie about alching a phat to get some attention is even worse.

I am usually not a big fan of abstract sigs (beeing too abstract for me), but most of yours look really nice. Especially the second one is great. Erm ... if I may ask, what kind of software did you use in the process of making your sigs (especially the second one)? Is all generated artifically, or did you use any photos?

I really like the greater demons and the sky :D. I am no specialist for pixels so I won't comment on technical things. A short list of what could be changed or I do not really like about the scene (c/c): - Moon: the craters should be more like an ellipse near to the edge of the moon - Ground: For the wildy the floor is too flat and clean in the foreground. I don't think you should add more items, just a few shades, bumps, wholes to make it look more like a natural ground. - Kite: A kite-shield is not flat, but the white bar in the middle makes it look ruther flat. - Fighter: The cape and the way he holds his shield looks like he is moving fast. Contrary to this, his eyes looka round like he is standing there, wondering about the greaters coming nearer. - Horizon: Behind the mountains the world seems to be cut off, espescially near the left border. Maybe adding a few more distant (smaller) mountains could fix this. - Ammy: The amulet is very small and makes the fighter look ruther fat. As well the head seems to be a bit small. - Wall: They look ruther like paper walls then made of stone. Make them more thick. The wall is missing a shadow (compared with the figther and the greater) All the same I like the colors and the shading as well as the idea. I give it a 8 / 10. Sys