warri0r45

I remember hearing them on the radio. Sounded killer. Ima' checkemout. Anyway: 1) Meshuggah 2) Opeth 3) Ion Dissonance 4) A Life Once Lost 5) An Aussie band called Mary Jane Kelly. For one song. Lol (it's a good song).

Yep. I argue it has it's upsides as well as it's downsides. It injects huge money into the companies intesests, which is usually better products to outcompete the others. This is getting deep into the corporate side of things though. Many scientific research institutes set thier own agenda of research and are given funding by governments. Example. Anyway this is deviating significantly from what we were originally chatting about, that being whether the state of the world is getting better or worse. The thing about science, technology and medicine is you can't unlearn what you've learnt nor can you always expect to have golden eras unless you have massive paradigm shifts, therefore scientific advancement or lack thereof is not the best basis to go by how much the world is going down the john unless it's a significant difference. The thing is science is still booming. Research is huge, scientific journals for every field and subfield you could imagine are many, publications weekly and monetary investments huge. Overall I think it's safe to say we're not going backwards yet (in terms of science and some of the things I listed at least). I'll give you the morality point. On the face of it we are getting more selfish. On a side note, I found an interesting article relating to some of these issues: http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/pinker07/pinker07_index.html

I'm not going to disagree with any of that except for that last point. It's true that many companies will fund research which is relevant to them, but as a scientist (student) I'd much rather discover something useful for mankind in general. I'd say this attitude is shared by many, many scientists. For the vast majority, it's a thankless job just like any other, really.

Ok, I can concede that. Too much selfishness in people these days. As for todays scientific, technological and medicinal advances, they are hardly useless. Relative to the times you describe, perhaps, I don't know, but you'd be amazed at how much we've discovered in modern times. Arguably, technology and medicine are chugging along just fine these days and producing decent results. Science is too. I can tell you of late we are discovering new organic compounds, for example, at a rate of 10,000 per week. Mapping the genome, space travel, discovering the intricacies of the cell cycle allowing us to understand and better treat cancer, genetically manipulated crops to prevent disease and increase yeilds, the discovery of carbon nanotubes, nuclear power, solar, wind and geothermal power, the discovery of the DNA double helix by Watson and Crick, the discovery of hundreds of thousands of new species, understanding the fundamentals of matter through atom smashers, among countless other things. Perhaps a better way of putting your point was that scientific revolutions in earlier times gave us the basic way of correctly looking at things to bring results and results thereafter flourished. This dosen't make the modern discoveries useless.

If needless animal cruelty can be avoided, great. If all animals could live a decent life and have a quick death so we can eat them, great. If not, tis sad but I'm not going to stop eating meat because of it. Would a lion give you a quick merciful blow to the head to kill you humanely or would eat eat your legs first making you scream in agony and terror? It's nature. It's supposed to be brutal. Having said that, we're the higher species. We have a consciousness, morals and altruism that extends beyond our species, hence why animal rights activists exist. As I said, if animal cruelty can at all be avoided, great, just don't expect me to join the cause when animals of our own species still go without medicine, food and water only to slowly succumb to disease and malnutrition to die. As for testing medicine on animals and those of you who may be against it, would you rather your brother, sister, mother, or father die because of an experimental drug or would you rather an animal take thier place? The choice there is simple for me. Animal testing is a necessary evil.

(3) Those are all good morals, and they've been around for thousands of years. However, none of them really hold true when it comes down to it. The latter three I believe just about everyone is guilty of on some level. The first not so much, but it still happens with alarming frequency. (1) Sounds good. (2) Ok, some reduced, some unchanged (and we still have our probems, of course). You can see why I would argue it's not as if the world has gone to hell yet nor is it particularly headed in that direction. (3) So the latter 3 rarely hold true. Have they ever held true moreso than they do today? If so, then the case that morality is going down hill has some credit to it. If not, then it dosen't. Aside from all that, it's not to say we can't all do better in terms of being better to our fellow man. There's always room for improvement in a world like this.

I am sure the dirt farmers in Africa go to sleep soundly knowing that you are "trying." And my nitpicking is a direct result of Warri0r's nitpicking in the first place. Poverty, famine, pestilence, rape, war...it all continues regardless of how many people it claims in comparison to the past. Consider Slobodan Milosovich's crusade against the Serbs in Yugoslavia. He killed hundreds of thousands. Saddam killed over a hundred thousand Kurds. Millions of babies are killed at birth in China. This year alone, more than 80,000 people have died from Islamic jihads. Last night alone in America (assuming an 8 hour period), 2000 women were raped, 1000 people were shot or stabbed, 200 people died from starvation, more than 10,000 continue to feed drug addictions that make them virtual slaves to the people who give them the drugs... The world is just as evil as it was 500 years ago. We may find cures for diseases and solve problems, but the human cruelty just creates more ills for society. If you want to call me pessimistic, call me a realist instead. Not thinking about the problem does not make the problem go away. Without results, the dirt farmer is still starving while your relief efforts buy bullets used to kill the dirt farmer. And to Bluetear: The majority of the population boom is occuring in developed nations. There are many many areas of the world with negative population increase, and no emigration. And please keep this civil, there's no need for profanity. EDIT: It's worth noting I have a degree in History. And what do historians do? We analyze the past and compare it to the present in order to address the future. EDIT2: I figure a source is going to be desired, so try the 2007 World Almanac, which features crime reports from a great number of nations. The other numbers are gotten from a friend in the D.O.D. I could put some research together for an argument but you likely know what you're talking about so I'll take it above my opinion. Again, I never said all of the things I listed in my first post were all non existant today, I just speculated they were worse in the past and never claimed the world today to be perfect. I realise that much at least. How was I being nitpicky by the way? Edit: Perhaps I can get your educated views on the matter (if you'd like to give it a go). The question is, based on historical evidence, do you think the world has gotten worse is terms of 1) living conditions and 2) general morality? Edit 2: I realise asking about whether morality has gotten better is prone to bias so let me pose some general morals which I think most can agree on: killing is bad, altruism is good, the golden rule is good and a sense of fairness is good. There we go.

I'm not alone!! :P

To elaborate on your last sentence, what if we could do something about the ills of the world, but we charge money for it? Yes, technology and knowlege have helped over the last 1000 years. But the human element is what corrupts both. You know what, you're absolutely right. The human element of corruption, greed, etc has always been, just like many of the worlds problems have always been. Like BlueTear said, that's far from being able to say it's getting worse, which I argue even morality towards our fellow man is not. Consider world wars, crusades and the medieval dark ages where everyone was divided into thier camps of us vs. them. Now consider today with an organisation such as the UN, wide scale trade and diplomacy (yet still with probems such as the middle east and various dictatorships dotted here and there) and a huge input of aid to the poor both from the countries of the world and the people from those countries via charity.

lol Yes, my cousin's cousin's cousin's cousin's cousin's cousin is the state champ in S.A. HA! S.A are ametuers compared to us Queenslanders at hedge trimming. :P Got that right! :P

Frankly I'm somewhat insulted that you would tarnish the good name of hedge trimming to make your trivial 'point'. It's very popular in Australia, you know. Some would argue it's even bigger than cricket.

Perhaps god has a sense of humour?

You think thats bad? We have people here laughing at a man who died from a headbut. Although it seems unlikely someone would die and especially from a armless man, the fact that they find it funny is insanity. I remember when I was at my school... and the twin towers fell.. the black people in their laughed hard as the white people ran for their lives. People can tell me all they want that this world is getting better.. but I say their just blind and always will be. You're right, it was much better when those black people were our slaves and we were laughing at them. So you'd rather world wars, disease pandemics, slavery, widescale ignorance, widescale discrimination, the heightened threat of nuclear armageddon, lower life expectancy, witch trials, crusades, rape and pillage tactics, arms races, eugenics and human experiments? Now is your turn. Show me the light and lead my from my blindness. You can never make a blind man see the light.. and I am to tired to debate right now.. but here is why you are blind, since you counted yourself as a blind man. 1. Rape: Amazing you put this one on this list. Okay everyone, unlock your windows, open your doors, men do not rape women anymore, the world is a better place. 2. Disease pandemics: Thank God we have a cure for aids.. 3. Slavery: Are you joking? Not in America, but definatly around the world.. 4 the heightened threat of nuclear armageddon: Yeah, we don't have that nowdays.. I will let North Korea know. 5. widescale ignorance, widescale discrimination: I shall let the Muslim world know they are no longer a threat. 6.lower life expectancy: Obesity in America, last I checked, is at 66% and increasing. The world is getting filled up with more man made chemicals than ever. We have strong mediciene, but it is shown that youths are getting sicker at younger ages. 7. crusades: I guess terrorists wasn't on a crusade when they kill our troops and bomb our towers. They did it for their religion, it is a Crusade to kill all Americans and Jews. I could say more, but you would probably on attempt to refute it with more ignorance words with mixed in insults. So I really don't bother with you much Warrior. Enjoy your blindness of this great world that is existing.. wow a world with no rape.. has the world really been this de-sensitized. (1) Of course, it still happens. These days it's not only actually against the law and heavily punished, it's frequency is down. 1 (2) Yes defender, it was much better back when we had the plague and hundreds of millions died from smallpox, a disease now eradicated. (3) Actually, I'll give you this one. 2 (4) Obviously you're not up to date with the latest news on NK, they are disarming for aid. That's besides the point considering it was 1953 where the doomsday clock was 2 minutes to midnight. As far as I'm aware it's 11:55 now. (5) We are a more enlightened race on the whole. Take science for instance. Of course, ignorance still exists. (6) And is life expectancy greater now than, say, 100 years ago? You have a point with the peripheral issues but that was beside the point I was making. (7) Yes, we still have terrorists, a prolem that's hardly a modern phenomenon mind you. Casualties for the crusades roughly 1.5 million compared to the few thousand from muslim extremists in modern times. 3 It looks like I didn't add that little footnote. Of course, many of these things still happen. The point was many of these things have gotten better, or, at least, you could hardly say they've gotten worse. Feel free to PM me with exactly why it is you think earth is going to hell in a handbasket, defender. I think you know what I mean.

No. I want him to elaborate on why he thinks those that take the view that the world is overall getting better are blind. I was suggesting why he is wrong and inviting him to elaborate on his view as I have done so at least once before in a different thread.

You're right, hand signs will mean different things depending on where you are and no one brand of people owns any hand gesture. Tell me, though, that you don't want to slap any given pop star in the face because they think doing the horns makes them cool, hard or rebellious akin to thier perception of heavy metal being these things.

Let me rephrase that you so it dosen't look like you're ignoring over half of the people who don't actually find it funny. "Shows the stupidity of some within our community when they laugh when someone dies"

You think thats bad? We have people here laughing at a man who died from a headbut. Although it seems unlikely someone would die and especially from a armless man, the fact that they find it funny is insanity. I remember when I was at my school... and the twin towers fell.. the black people in their laughed hard as the white people ran for their lives. People can tell me all they want that this world is getting better.. but I say their just blind and always will be. You're right, it was much better when those black people were our slaves and we were laughing at them. So you'd rather world wars, disease pandemics, slavery, widescale ignorance, widescale discrimination, the heightened threat of nuclear armageddon, lower life expectancy, witch trials, crusades, rape and pillage tactics, arms races, eugenics and human experiments? Now is your turn. Show me the light and lead my from my blindness.

:shock: I hope that's coke you spilt on your keyboard, Jem.

I absolutely agree with you. It's becoming too cliche for me and it's sad because it's such a classically metal symbol. Pop stars doing it make me want to vomit in thier designer jeans and punch them in the nose. I can never not think "what an absolute and utter tool, you couldn't be more of a moronic hack if you tried" whenever I see someone of no relevance to metal doing it. So yes, safe to say it's a pet hate of mine. Horns up \m/ \m/

You Shouldn't Be Alive by Ion Dissonance.

As some of the more keyed in have alluded to, it's satirical, not for real.

He resisted what? The cops grabbing him because he was asking a question? The whole argument here hinges on whether the cops were justified in grabbing him. I found it borderline wierd that he was just grabbed by the police in that instant when his mike goes off and he faces them for a brief moment. Either he said something in that moment to get them worked up or they are power hungry ego trippers.

Wrong QFT. Enlighten us, please. I Really Do hope your Joking, She was kidnapped in portugal, Errrrr People who havent heard of The McCanns (Starts to break out in a cold sweat :uhh: ) You act as if her kidnapping/dissapearance is any more meaningful than the thousands that go on around the world weekly.

I have no idea why the police grabbed him. Were they trying to escort him out? Afraid he was going to do something? Making a pre-emptive strike? I've got no idea and I don't think that was within the law. Besides that they could have been human beings and asked verbally first. Did you hear Kerry say "That's alright, let me answer his question"?

well actually i was reffering to the fact that the band name is in hebrew (language i am quite familiar with) nothing more. just saw them on youtube...what can i say...lol..too old for this never been a gr8 metal fun OnTopic PRODIGY - voodoo people Ohk cool. And yeah, they're probably a more aquired taste than most bands.