ISREAL63
-
Posts
210 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Gallery
Events
Blogs
Posts posted by ISREAL63
-
-
I'm quite certain not all Palestinians are terrorists...
I never said there were
Don't open that can of worms in this here. Make a new thread to pour all your hate of each other into.
I am not try to start anything i just posted what happen today for me as this topic is about what happen to you today
-
Today is Memorial Day for the Soldiers Who Fell in Israel's Wars and the Victims of Terror Attacks
Seems like I'll have to lit a candle for the Palestinians, then.
For who? To the terrorist that blew themselves up in name of Hamas or the PLO 2 Terrorist organization created with one goal to destroy Israel? To the solders of the Arab armies that marched to Israel trying to destroy it but died trying to kills innocent people?
-
-
Would you begrudge people celebrating Hitler's death too?
You mean suicide
-
-
I tried printing a paper like fifteen times, then I notice the printer was off. I turn it on and get my paper, fifteen times....
I have done this many times :oops:
-
Ok, I've tried to see where you're going with this, but stating that "there was no Humanitarian Aid" aboard the Mavi Marmar is completely ridiculous.
There was no humanitarian aid on the Mavi Marmara it was a passenger ship not a freighter ship there were 7 ship ships in the flotilla only 3 were freighter ships
please read link because i don't think you believe me http://www.israelpolitik.org/2010/06/10/no-aid-found-on-turkish-vessel-mavi-marmara/
There's absolutely zero evidence to indicate that the "plan" was to "attack" Israeli soldiers. If that had been the plan, you'd think they would have at least thought to bring weapons to accomplish it properly.There is loads of evidence showing it was preplanned violence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I6XL2pzguE&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkXDev2wXVA&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlSSaPT_OU&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS9PXZ3RWM&feature=related
It seems to me that they objected to Israel searching their ship (which Israel had every right to do, albeit not in international waters) they tried (stupidly) to prevent them from boarding, and paid the price.At least we can agree on something which means we can make progress
-
And given the context that I brutally ripped that quote from there weren't many other interpretations for it.
I like how you are playing with my words what i said is if you support it and they call themselves a humanitarian flotilla that means you agree that they are a humanitarian flotilla even if their plan (a least the people aboard the Mavi Marmara) was to attack IDF soilders not to bring Humanitarian Aid there was no Humanitarian Aid aboard the Mavi Marmara where the IDF solders were attacked and killed 9 of the attackers
-
It makes sense in that it could be understood, but it just isn't logical to claim that not supporting Israel's policies means supporting Israel's enemies.
I could probably have explained that far better than I did.
When did i say if you don't support Israel's policies then you support Israel's enemies? i never said that or anything like that
-
Did you understand that?
You're kidding... right? :lol:
No. he misunderstood my first post, so i wanted to make sure he understood my clarification post :) It wasn't directed at everyone
I think i understood what you are saying but i don't understand how what i said doesn't make sense
-
You support it and they call themselves a humanitarian flotilla meaning you agree with them if you support them
There's a fallacy in there somewhere. Not sure which one though, I don't keep a list, but if any of the more knowledgeable posters do, please say it... :lol:
It's interesting that you post this after mentioning how blinded the anti-Israel side is, though.
IT is a red herring, specifically an "irrelevant conclusion" fallacy.
a) You support it
b ) they call themselves a humanitarian flotilla
conclusion: you support it therefore [fallacy] you also call it a humanitarian flotilla.
My point exactly, if someone calls themselves something and then you support them you agree with what they are calling themselves
Thank you tortilliachp for your support :thumbsup:
-
You obviously do not read what other people say as I said the reality of this video is comparable to that of the audio tape IDF released. And on that note I will leave this thread as it shows Israeli supporters like you blindly support Israel and do not even read what they reject.
I do read what other people say. Israeli supporters don't blindly follow and support Israel you and the anti Israel propaganda are blinded
I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who is incapable of even writing a coherent sentence -- and forum rules prohibit me from pointing out the obvious -- so let me keep this simple:
Don't misrepresent what I write. I never called the Turkish ships a "humanitarian flotilla".
You support it and they call themselves a humanitarian flotilla meaning you agree with them if you support them
-
Matok, thanks for your post.
I understand where you are coming from. And I feel for you in terms of having to put up with the sorts of Israelis on display in this thread. But then, we have the same problem in the US with slavish adherence to the military and thoughtless support of "defence" and "security". I only hope it eventually passes and you get some sane leadership before it's too late.
Embarrassing.
What is embarrassing is you call it a humanitarian flotilla
-
This is a good comparison to the reality of the audio tape IDF released and the kind of "peace" Israel advocates; one that is fabricated from lies and mocks the weak. And just a personal peeve, I rather dislike how some speakers of Hebrew can't say Hamas. It's Hamas, not Khamas.
The IDF didn't release this video. How is this fabricated from lies? That hamas givens children guns or that they receive billions in aid or the hamas is a terrorist organization
They were pronouncing hamas in Hebrew
http://www.pmw.org.il/tv%20part3.HTML
-
-
The mere fact that they intercepted a ship in international waters shows that the soldiers attacked first. Second, there's evidence (video evidence) of the IDF launching tear gas before boarding, and I've seen other reports of them firing on the ship before boarding as well.
You have the IDF's claims, known for their lies the world over; I have logic, reason, and amateur videos that are slowly leaking out despite Israel shutting out journalists and taking all cameras from the civilians:
Israel intercepted the flotilla in international waters right outside of Naval blockade so they wouldn't have a chance at running the blockade. The IDF board the ship and the activist attacked them first Where is the evidence of the IDF launching tear gas before boarding? and don't tell me in the video i watch it twice because i thought i might have missed it.
Video: First of all 3 IDF soldiers were kidnapped and later they released them after they realized they lost control of the ship. I like how they say "They were briefly detained" And when she talks about here being detained she claims "she was kidnapped" not detained very interesting how we "kidnapped her" and our soldiers were "briefly detained". The rest of video wow you a video of injured people after they fought the IDF.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo
http://www.virtualjerusalem.com/news.php?Itemid=2981
No, I showed that nationalistic instincts prevent people from assessing their own country's atrocities.You have proven other countries not Israel
Ok, then what prevents them from acknowledging them, then? They have done everything they could to smear the Goldstone Report..We didn't smear the Goldstone Report it did it its self by not stating why operation cast lead started- After 8 years of launching more than 10,000 rockets and mortars at Israeli cities.It also failed to say Hamas is a terrorist group sworn to the destruction of Israel or any of the terrorist attacks against Israel. It also failed to state that the terrorist hid behind civilians and and in schools and hospitals.
http://www.thegoldstonereport.com/
http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/g_report_e1.pdf
I'm pretty sure that this was a war crime if the Israeli commandos are not handed over to Turkey:Why is that because acted in self defense and killed people trying to kill them first the Israeli commandos are hero not terrorist unlike 50 men aboard the Mavi Marmara who attacked the IDF
There are therefore two clear legal possibilities.Possibility one is that the Israeli commandos were acting on behalf of the government of Israel in killing the activists on the ships. In that case Israel is in a position of war with Turkey, and the act falls under international jurisdiction as a war crime.
Possibility two is that, if the killings were not authorised Israeli military action, they were acts of murder under Turkish jurisdiction. If Israel does not consider itself in a position of war with Turkey, then it must hand over the commandos involved for trial in Turkey under Turkish law.
In brief, if Israel and Turkey are not at war, then it is Turkish law which is applicable to what happened on the ship. It is for Turkey, not Israel, to carry out any inquiry or investigation into events and to initiate any prosecutions. Israel is obliged to hand over indicted personnel for prosecution.
The Soldiers didn't murder they acted in self defense
So considering I don't believe a word that the IDF says, nor any official government military for that matter, that leaves your sources falling far short. So yes, Matok, the lesson of the debacle is that nothing the IDF says can be trusted by anyone. Not ever. (Of course, that should apply to any nations military, and not just the most moral army in the world). For example, we just killed al Qaeda's number three. Hmm, I think I've heard that before. Oh, right, we killed the number three guy several times before, and then later the reports were retracted. Usually the number three guy dies whenever our drone strikes come under fire for killing masses of civilians. Maybe it really was number three this time, but I have many doubts about the claim.wow from the start you didn't believe a word out of the IDF so stop look for ways around the truth because there are none the truth will be heard if you like it or not
-
I wasn't aware that you were Jewish, qeltar. It's a popular term used, though. Matthew Yglesias, Max Blumenthal, Glenn Greenwald, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, and really any liberal Jew is called "self-hating" or a terrorist sympathizer. Hell, I've even seen Rahm Emanuel called a self-hating Jew because he's serving the President and trying to get a peace deal.
If you are trying to get us to go to your level of name calling nice try :shame: :thumbdown:
It's just like when so called "moderates" attempt to marginalize "extremists" without actually looking at what they believe. Or like in this recent example, saying that Israel was acting out of self-defense against "terrorists." Somehow it's been accepted in American discourse that Israel was the victim here, and that the activists were the aggressor; even though 9-19 people have been killed by the supposed victim. It's just the same old tribal instincts, and another problem with nationalism.Israel was the victim here it is the truth. If you are blinded by the anti Israel propaganda that the is your problem but don't try blinding others. I given you many links showing you they started the fighting not the IDF, if you don't believe the facts that is your problem
The nationalism in Sri Lanka prevents it from investigating war crimes against the Tamils, the nationalism in Sudan prevents a real inquiry into Darfur (although China has a lot to do with that, also), the nationalism in Pakistan prevents a real inquiry into the 1971 genocide of 3 million Bengalis and the violence against Kashmiri Hindus, the nationalism in Turkey prevents acknowledging the Armenian Genocide, the nationalism in America prevents condemnation of civilian killings in Iraq and Afghanistan and propping up dictators throughout the world, the nationalism in Japan prevents acknowledging the hideous crimes committed against the Chinese before and during WWII (14 million civilian deaths), the nationalism in the UK and France and Spain prevents it from fully acknowledging the evils of imperialism, the fanaticism of fundamentalist Christians prevents them from acknowledging the cultural genocide Christianity has wrought on many parts of the world, the nationalism in Australia prevents a proper policy and acknowledgment of crimes against Aboriginals, the nationalism by the Chinese prevents an acknowledgement of oppression against the Tibetans, etc. I could go on for days, but I think I've made my point.Wow you showed that many government are afraid of its people
Nationalism in a lot of places prevents the proper acknowledgement of wrongdoing, oppression, and genocide. God, I hate nationalism, and that is the reason I am against Zionism.Nationalism in Israel doesn't prevent the acknowledgment of war crimes. There were no war crimes done against the flotilla after me giving you so many different source i don't understand how you are so blinded
-
Lol. Do tell, sir or madam, what looks fake about it? Are you so blinded that you can't accept the video proof right in front of your eyes? I don't know who died in this video, but the one thing that is absolutely undeniable is the fact that the IDF soldier is armed with a rifle (@0:16s), not a paint gun nor a 9mm pistol, as the IDF has repeatedly claimed. Frikkin' liars.
I am not blinded you are as i said i rifle/ 9mm pistol would have had a flash meaning that the is a paintball gun not a gun.
This is a rather childish comment. Everyone "blames other people" when they feel they have done something wrong. You certainly do.
Yes who is he blaming?
It's entirely relevant. Because Israel's continued existence depends on financial support, and that in turn depends on Israel behaving in a moral and responsible manner.
When they commit immoral, irresponsible acts, they make people less likely to support them.
I also offer it up to show that I am not an Israel-hater -- far from it.
Israel doesn't need the money. What immoral, irresponsible acts did Israel do stop a flotilla from entering a navel blockade set up to stop hamas of acquiring weapons to kill Israelis
I'm referring to Netanyahu, who is basically the George W. Bush of Israel in his attitude and behavior.
Netanyahu is not like bush he has done nothing wrong he is defending Israel from terrorist threats
I've explained it numerous times. Re-read the thread if your memory fails you.The flotilla? It is something Turkey should be embarrassed from not Israel
How can I "take your opinion"? I don't have to respect it, however, when it is based on false claims and blind loyalty.
Our claims our not false i have shown you proof in almost all my post.
Your posts mean little to me because they are high on emotion and low on facts and logical reasoning. For example, trying to downplay the importance of American financial support -- it's laughably silly and shows just how little you really understand about the complexities of this issue.I give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming that your poorly considered posts are because of your age, so there is time for you to educate yourself. There are many adults who fall into the same category, and that's a lot worse.
his post are high on emotion and high on facts.
What do you define as "support"? Undying love for Israel that means they can do w/e the [bleep] they want?
Unfortunately, that is *exactly* what they mean and *exactly* what they want: unflinching, unswerving obedience from the American government and American Jewry.
Hell, I'm surprised I'm not already being called a "self-hating Jew" for the posts I've made in this thread. It's a standard tactic.
That is not at all what we want.
-
Just like with everything else Israel related, you're alone in the world with that belief.
He is not alone he has the truth on his side (and me and the rest of Israel and the Jewish nation)
Oh, and just like I suspected, the IDF killed people execution style, not out of "self-defense." Iunno who provided the video, I don't know who it is that they're killing, but now we have some proof of my suspicions. The video claims it is the Turkish national and American citizen Furkan Dogan, but I'm not going to stand by that assertion because I can't see who it is:I am sorry but this video looks like a fake, second that is a paintball gun being fired not a gun, at night you would see a flash from the gun.
-
Now that we're 24 pages into this discussion and it is winding down a bit, I'll tell you a bit about myself.
I'm Jewish. I was raised quite observantly. I went to a Jewish day school. I've been a very strong supporter of Israel for many years.
Just last month I donated $100 to the UJA, a charity that raises money for Israeli causes. I spent $5,000 last year sending my oldest son on a month-long trip across the country. I still have Israeli savings bonds that I decided not to cash in to allow Israel to keep using the money effectively interest-free.
And what I've seen over the last couple of weeks has utterly embarrassed me. The behavior of the Israelis, and mindless sycophants like on this thread, has been simply shameful.
I am now strongly reconsidering sending any more money to Israel or supporting the country in any way until it cleans up its act.
Israel has no idea how big of a hole it is digging for itself thanks to the "Israeli George W. Bush" and the people who support him. He is leading you down the road to ruin just as surely as the real Bush did us.
The difference is that we have the resources to recover from those failed policies, and you do not.
There's nothing to be proud of here, except to those too ignorant or stupid to understand the big picture.
What you have seen over the last couple of weeks that embarrassed you? What in the last couple of changed you mind the flotilla staged by the Turkish government, to make Israel look bad to the world by defending itself. Once you hear the facts and don't ignore you should understand the real picture and understand that Israel was right
I don't have pride in my country. Nationalism can go [bleep] itself. It is one of the key forces in tribalism, which is why we have wars. The only time I will support nationalism is when a people use it to overthrow a dictator. The Green Revolution in Iran, for instance, using nationalistic pride would have been acceptable in that instance as a binding force for the Iranian people to get rid of their horrid theocracy.
Just because you don't have pride in your country doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't have pride in their own country.
What do you define as "support"? Undying love for Israel that means they can do w/e the [bleep] they want? If you mean Jews, most Jews vote Democratic. The only Jewish Republican representative left in Congress is Eric Cantor, an insufferable douche bag who also happens to be my representative. Ineffective? Man are you a partisan hack. He just got the UN to approve of sanctions. CHINA. He got CHINA to approve of sanctions on Iran. I don't approve of sanctions. Just like the blockade, they're both ineffective and only hurt the poor and middle classes of the respective nations. However, China more than any other nation never approves of "meddling" because that would mean they'd have to deal with the giant red marker on their own soil: Tibet. He got China to approve of sanctions...and you're calling him ineffective. I don't know what world you live in, mate, but I want some of that weed you're smoking.Last, Israel cannot "stand on its own two feet." If the US dropped Israel's aid, they would be at that negotiating table faster than you can count to three.
First of all Israel doesn't do what ever it wants. Second What does Eric Cantor have to do with this?
Israel CAN stand on its own two feet without the USA and the USA needs Israel just as much then Israel needs it
-
Objectivity, analysis and reasoning require intelligence.
Reflexive, unflinching, unconditional pride in one's country does not.
everyone has pride in their country especially Israelis have so much to be proud of.
Thank you for proving my point so succinctly.
please tell me How did i proved your point?
-
Objectivity, analysis and reasoning require intelligence.
Reflexive, unflinching, unconditional pride in one's country does not.
everyone has pride in their country especially Israelis who have so much to be proud of.
-
You and two other Israelis seem to be the only ones here who think anything about this event should lead to feelings of "pride".
That should tell you something (though it probably won't).
What? what are you trying to say.
-
You don't have to understand their mind, its common sense! If someone is an extremeist and is willing to die for their cause, they'll do it for free. If someone is a and makes their money this way then there's no way in hell he's gonna risk his pay check..
They were mercenary extremest hired to fight the IDF when it boarded the ship as i previously stated there is no way for me to understand a terrorist mind
When do newspapers give away there sources?.When one wishes to be believed.
Nobody looks for the source of a newspaper article and newspapers don't give away their sources
Which in no way explains why the whole, unedited videos have not been released to the public.The IDF doesn't need to release anything next time don't try running a naval blockaded or you will suffer the consequences
That means that they could have done a hit and run.Or they were running below decks when their prayers were interupted by the fighting.
Their prayer were not interrupted by fighting because they started it please go by the facts and don't try to lie here is some evidence for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYjkLUcbJWo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU12KW-XyZE
4 fits best. The leaders of this event wanted to show israel stopping an aid convoy of peaceful protestors to draw attention to gaza. Everyone on board was told that if they were boarded to make a human ring around the bridge so that israel would have to physically move unarmed, peaceful protestors out of their way. If not gaza would still get the much needed suplies.Somewhere along the line something provoked the violence.
The video above proves they provoked the violence not the IDF. They were certainly not unarmed, and peaceful protesters as a said the video proves it
they would give up their sources if they wanted the rest of the world to verify if it was actually true or not.The IDF has a reason for not giving a source for all you know someone collaborated with Israel giving them the information
Israel vs Palestine
in Off-Topic
Posted
Israel won't give up any land and no return of refugees
The land was conquered after 12 Arab armies surrounded its borders with the saying "we will drive them into the sea" then Egypt started the war by closing the Straits of Tiran which under international law is a act if war in return Israel fought back and liberated Gaza, The West Bank and the Golan heights it later returned the Sinai Peninsula but it has no reason to go back to the 1967 borders it was won under international law
In 1947 1,002,270 Jew were expelled from their homes in the Arab countries and from the Palestinian Mandate 826,000 fled their homes with encouragement from their leaders that they would return as conquers and liberators Israel accepted the Jewish refuges why should the Arabs do the same?