Redorok

That was an unbelievably fast response time! Thank you both, it's performing exactly as desired. =]

First of all, thank you Stev and the Tip.it crew for making and hosting the Dungeonsweeper; it is fantastic and I can't thank you enough. I was wondering if you could add an option in the right-click tray icon menu to fix the GUI in place, so it can't be dragged until the option is turned off again. I keep clicking next to my timer button and accidentally dragging the GUI across my screen at the start of the floor. :cry: Other ways of doing this: Adding a button much like the key and gatestone buttons on the bottom-left of the GUI with a padlock icon on it, which you can click to fix the GUI in place and free by clicking it again. Adding a similar button with a draggy mouse icon like this → on it to the bottom-left of the GUI, which you can click-and-hold to move the GUI around(much like you can move a window around in Windows by clicking and holding the title bar). The reason I'd go for the right-click tray icon menu option is that a button on the GUI could also be missclicked, much like one can missclick the current drag boxes. After all, the drag boxes are essentially buttons. Also, I really liked the varying degrees of map opalescence on the old GUI, but you already seem to be working on bringing that back(or rather allowing access to :wink: ) that feature. Thank you in advance!

And another one in the Chaos Tunnels: It's in the small Fire Giant room(number 11 on the map I linked to in the previous post), 7 steps east of the western portal in that room; a picture can be found here.

A scan coordinate is missing from the Chaos Tunnels list. It is in the Ice Troll room in the south-west of the Chaos Tunnels, room 48 on this map. A picture of the location may be found here. The coordinate is one square south and three squares east of the blue burner/scrying pool.

It's his Effigy exp from the end of the day yesterday till today. Runetracker works with a sliding window. The Slayer exp of yesterday fell off, but the Effigy Slayer exp is still on there. He started Slaying today and got 68k def exp, so it means he got 10 Effigies yesterday and slayed about 40k exp at the start of today, then logged, and someone(or himself) updated the tracker. And about Dapledo: He seems to do a little bit of WC and RC every day while doing his buyables/fast skills. If you look at the way his exp goes up, it's been that way for weeks. Seeing as he has a few buyables/fast ones left to get to 100M, I think he will just continue doing this and eventually he'll end up with all skills at 100M while getting no big RC/WC gains in the process.

I think it's just because he uses his effigies at the end of the day. If the "new day point" comes right before he used his effigies, it looks like the only experience he got that day was from effigies. So he sort of starts the Runetrack day by spending the effigies he got during his "day", which apparently ended at 8 AM in that instance.

Has anyone else noticed that Duke Marko is powerslaying? He did some pretty hardcore RCing a few months ago as well. Would be nice if he came back.

Drumgun is going to have to pull something extra special out of the hat if he still wants to be first page in all combat skills now that so many people are maxing Prayer.

It's funny how Dapledo would be ranked as number two on this list if he did a hard week of Dungeoneering. Not to mention he has many of the hard/slow skills at 100M+ or on the way there.

I think it is nice to see that even though you are so involved in getting experience, you are still noticing that Jagex is getting less and less emotionally attached to the game. Most of the time when people spend a lot of time on something, they only set their sights on the goal and forget about what is going on around them. So it is good to see that you are still being critical about what Jagex is doing to this game for the sake of engorging the figure on their bank accounts. And you're right about the Katana. I think it's pretty lame how Jagex gives benefits to some players. When the member's loyalty system update was announced in the BTS this month, I asked why they were being hypocrites to their own values on the forums(beacuse before they have said "real life wealth should in no way influence the gaming experience of our players permanently and they should never be forced into buying membership at a set point in time in order to get an advantage over their fellow player", which is also why the Katana is a sad thing). I think I asked three times, but I never got an answer, even though the Jmod(Mod Nexus) was answering questions other people had asked at the same time I asked my questions. Also, the fact that the Gowers and Constant Tedder(the CEO during the "good times of Jagex") stepped off the board and were replaced by "a bunch of bankers" in December is a sad thing. Obviously, when the investors make the decisions in the Jagex company, every decision will have "make more money" as the target, instead of "make a good game that we feel proud of". If you look at the time that Jagex started going downhill with RuneScape, you can see that it is about half a year before Mr. Tedder quit as the CEO, so I think he had a lot to do with the quality at Jagex. It's even possible that he wanted to leave because he no longer felt any pride for the direction in which the Gowers wanted to take RuneScape, and that may be why he didn't want to be involved with it anymore. I personally find it very striking that at the point Mr. Tedder must have decided that he wanted to leave, the number of good updates dropped like a brick, and the number of unnecessary/unwanted updates rose to an all-time high. I hope you and others will get the chance to "complete" the game and get your 5B exp. But in reality, I doubt that there will be enough time. At the moment, they are fishing every last fish out of the sea, until the sea is nothing more than a chaotic wasteland where no-one can find anything that is useful to them. Good luck with the race against Jagex; not to mention the race against your fellow players.

I don't agree with your first point because it doesn't work that way in the practical and long-term world. Furthermore, there has never been any proof that doing only the first waves is better, only people claiming things without any evidence whatsoever. From personal experience I found doing full waves(perhaps without the queen) is the fastest way. But I shall shut up now because this is going nowhere. :-P

This is Jebrim's point, everyone. Of course it is technically possible. I have done 91-'99' Agility with the horn as well, managing exp rates of over 100k. After doing that, however, I feel that if you did this for dozens of millions of experience, it would get extremely annoying. You people are underestimating the human factor; you have to deal with other people to get your team together. What if someone lags out in the middle? Who are you going to get to come to wave 7? You'll have to restart and find another teammate. This happens all the time! Go try it for 20M exp and then come back with a 95k+/hr rate. It's not the case of technical possibility, but of combining the needs of five people. Go try it for extended periods of training, and you will see that it isn't as easy as it looks on paper. The same element comes up in Dung, but because it's a "skill"(it being comparable to a mini-game like BA in many ways proves again that it's a mini-game and not a skill), many people are available. Even though the same 90% of the Dung players may be idiots just as well as 90% of the BA players are idiots, there is a far greater number of able players left than at BA. That's all I have to say. Go try it.

Fill horn in 3 hours? With an average of 11 rounds per horn, that would be 16.36 minutes per round. The RECORD is just under 17 minutes for a round, and that has only been done ONCE, so this is not a realistic time. Four hours or four hours and twenty minutes is far more realistic and could be managed, making the horn reallistically useful. However... I do agree with Jebrim. I have used the horn for a few millions of Agility exp, and I used to play BA long before the horn ever came out, I played it all day long for over a year, right from the release date, without any rewards of note. At that time, there were a lot of people who were pretty active BA players, but we all got a bit less active and couldn't manage 10+ rounds every day anymore. New players may be more active at first, but those few new excited players will not give you the sheer amount of players to pick from that you would need to get 200M Agility with the horn in an efficient way. What I'm saying is: Try to get 20M straight Agility exp with the horn and take note of your mental state and the possible amount of time that your horn runs dry. You will either be going back and forth between BA and the Barbarian course and PMing while you're doing Agility, or your horn will run dry very often. I strongly doubt that it would be possible to find a team of active BA players that is large enough for you to be playing BA in such a way that your horn stays sufficiently full all the time. Sometimes there won't be 4 other players(remember, you might have 3 good players, but that's not enough; you always need at least 4), sometimes there will be enough for one round but then they have to go and you're going back and forth between BA and Agility 20 times a day; what does that do to your training morale? Even though it's theoretically possible, the realistic approach to the logistics and the mental toughness required to do this is one that I am not able to find. And let me point out: Most people who have played BA ever since the release only use the horn to get 99s. Either they quit or they just don't care for exp. Loving BA and loving Agility enough to get vast amounts of experience is not a combo that I have found in anyone.

[rage name=Redorok]Well, at least they do have a sense of humour, albeit a cruel one. I think I could make a list of time-waster updates at least 2000 updates and patches long, concerning the past 4 years. Don't think there will be 200 good updates and patches that I could list of that period. Just to name a few examples: -Changing the way the website looks a hundred times a year -Removing Low Detail graphics as such, and I think we did pay for the development of that, didn't we? -Holiday Events -Facebook login -Splitting the forum communities up, changing the lay-out of the forums and adding/removing boards a hundred times a year -Wasting time on social networking sites -Constantly talking about "the community" and organising events for "the community" while actually the valuable and inspirational members of "the community" are all getting fed up and quitting -Designing ways to force free players to get membership -Desgining ways to make loyal players feel appreciated without actually giving them any content updates And of course, everyone's favourite: -MechScape(at least they kept the concept art!!!) And this is not even mentioning the lack of attention they pay to things that do actually need to be patched or changed. I wonder, for example, why Tears of Guthix and the Skeletal Horror still can't reset together with the penguins, even though I had a 600+ supporter thread running for over 2 years concerning this matter. The least they could have done is drop a line saying "It isn't possible, because..." or "We're looking into it and have taken notice of the amount of work you have put into keeping this thread alive for two years...". But they obviously can't do that because they only have time for important things, as can be seen above. Long story short: They'll just do whatever they want and you can't count on exp rates in relation to effort or exp rates in relation to time spent staying equal for any given period of time.[/rage]

Paperbag, humans can only live in the present and the future(until we invent time-machines, of course). Therefore, try to find things that you can enjoy in the present and the future and change in the present. Remember; life is in the future, not the past. The past can teach us things which can make it easier for us to shape our future, but we cannot change it, nor should we wish to. If something has hurt you in the past, you should try to learn from it instead of trying to change it. Trying to change things in the past only means that there are still lessons to learn from that past, lessons which *will* help you in the future, and in the future which you *can* influence. Living in the past only means that we don't want to face our mistakes, yet facing mistakes is one of the most important things to do to develop as a person and become happier than we ever were. Humans are made to move, not to stand still. Even the tastiest food becomes dull if you eat it too much. My advice to you is: You are in this position right now, but you will not be in this position forever. Learn what you can, and then move on to your next project in life. Live in the present, long for the future, appreciate the past. The best of luck to you. @Kingduffy: I've always been quite partial to your style of play, so kudos on that. I have been wondering if you would go for the trimmed completionist cape. It seems to me that you want to play the entire game and get the most out of it. Do you think the trimmed completionist cape offers that? Or do you think some elements of it are actually stopping players from experiencing the whole game because they focus too much on one thing(e.g. Castle Wars)? Curious to find out what you think, thank you for posting. :-) Always nice to hear.

Congratulations to S U O M I on reaching the first page of the Slayer hiscores in what has to be described as an insanely short amount of time! This makes me wonder if there is perhaps even a permanent top 5 Slayer ranking coming for him. Meanwhile, Nintendo Swe is about to reach the "halfway" mark with only around 340k experience left. @Tripsis: Love the picture in your signature.

You're just jealous. You can't get a tick to go faster, and you can't make any uninterrupted sequence of events go faster in RuneScape, because everything happens in 0.6 second units of time. How I love being a nerd. *aaah* Stop trying to make people fit into your world. Apparently you don't find society that great if you say "everyone has to do stupid things they don't enjoy". So why are you doing them? Why do you want other people to do them? You just said they were negative things, and still you are recommending them. Do you like making yourself feel bad? You can't, because that is a paradox. You can't like not liking something because then you are liking it and thus not not liking it. Either you enjoy society a lot more than you are willing to admit, or you do hate doing those things "everyone has to do in life" but you're just angry at other people because they made it better for themselves where you failed to do that. It seems to me that the better option would be to stop listening to the people who want you to do things you don't enjoy, and stop making people who don't listen to the people who tell them to do things they don't enjoy, feel bad. If you say you don't enjoy those things, then you would be a hypocrite to tell other people they should do them, unless you do enjoy them, in which case you're just lying to yourself. Can we please get mutes or something for anyone who starts a no-life conversation and all those who reply to it from now on?

I heard someone [i believe it was Marco] say that the record was around 14 minutes. I play loads of ba games with ba addicts and love to do races with them, constant <18mins rounds. @ normal games <20mins is very common even if you have to take a noob w6'er. the 14mins record however isn't a record since it involved bugabusing where you were able to fire omega eggs as soon as queen spawns (or any other kind of egg for that matter, you just had to put 1 egg in and you could fire any other kind simply by clicking it and then clicking continue at the warning message saying: there are no egg of that kind in the cannon) this bug has been fixed. But now you can spamm eggs and eaisly 1 egg queen or spamm red eggs on runners/healers. ps: funny thing, i am Marco ... irl ;) (which he prolly is too, god i envy his displayname, once saw him ingame also) Yes, when racing you can do under 20 pretty consistently, but it will be hard to always find teams which can do proper <22 minute rounds if you're going for 200m agility. In this situation it is consistency which is important, not getting a good time one or two times and then standing around talking. But let's get back on topic; this thread isn't about BA and I feel all things relevant to playing BA in this context have been discussed. @xpx Thank you for the information. =] I guess it's better to just c2 fish then and skip the trees, doing pines instead.

Didn't know about the queen update, didn't play for over a year as I said. Ty for the information. =] About filling up the horn; I find it hard to believe that a wave gives a set amount of potential. I started from wave 1, filling up my horn several times. One time it would come up at 10.5 rounds, then at 11.5, then at 11 etc. If it were the case a wave gave set potential, this would not be erratic. Then again, I "passionately agree" with robertr1... Jagex have a habit of not telling us things or being vague when there is no reason not to tell us more precisely. I guess we will never know, seeing as you would have to have thousands of reliable samples of people keeping points and emptying the horn several times over. At the moment, I find it most likely that points do affect filling the horn, especially because the queen doesn't seem to give much potential, even though it is the highest wave, which would make sense pointswise. @Torstol: Round record was not 19 minutes before that update. It has been under 17 minutes for months, if not over a year. I'd have to check for the exact time and the people who set it, but I'm sure it was well under 19 minutes a long time ago. ^ Shows how hard it would be to fill the horn in four hours consistently. =]

Yeah imo you have to enjoy the minigame without the rewards if you want to do it for a longggggggg time. That doesn't only go for BA. If you don't plan to play with any enjoyment out of the game itself, it's hard to be good at. You have to want to be the best, and then you are automatically most efficient. And Blake, I've never heard that. Then again, I haven't played in a year.

And Firemaking gives more experience per hour than Mining or Agility. Doing straight Firemaking would get you more experience than filling up the horn and using it. Firemaking at peak efficiency is over 450k per hour, so it would only take about 8.5 hours to get the experience from a full horn, doing straight Firemaking. It takes around 4.5 hours to fill the horn and another 4.25 to empty it, at a total of 8.75 hours, and that is being generous to the horn(I cut the Fm experience rate a bit). So as you can see, no-one was unknowing of what they were talking about. That it gives more exp doesn't mean it's worth it, seeing as the experience rates for Fm are far higher than that of Agility. You can basically get exp with straight Fm faster than you can get enough horn potential+Fm it up to get the same exp, as you can see from above calculation.

@Try: Hmmm I don't know how I got it in my head that it would take only 15 hours to get 1.4M straight Agility exp, it's obviously 20 hours... I guess it is always worth it then. :-o Would take about 20 hours without horn and around 15 with it, indeed. And that's counting 5 hours for filling the horn, which is pretty realistic to use as a constant figure. 26 minute rounds are very possible with a good team. Thank you for the correction, I didn't realise I was assuming the wrong starting figures for straight agility; they were way off, too! @Thai: Not a problem, and thank you for the rates. I guess it is best to just do straight C2 Fishing then, and just do pines for Woodcutting and not bother with it inside Daemonheim. It would be logical if at level 99, a full horn gave a neat 1.4M exp. It seems to save you around 25% of the time spent when using the realistic 5 hours to fill the horn(4 hours is way too fast, it is almost impossible to do that for 11 rounds+ straight, time and time again, especially without the best teams). From this I would conclude that 95k an hour is a bit more realistic than 101k, but 101k is certainly possible; even a bit more. Also, there have been some experiments with using lower waves to fill up the horn, but nothing really conclusive ever came out of that. A lot of people said things, but I have never heard any figures about this from someone I know is telling the truth. Someone once told me to do waves 1-6, but after three tries that was 15-20% slower than full rounds. Mind you, this was quite some time ago. Jagex tweaks little invisible things every now and then without telling us. I know for sure that they have made some little changes to BA a few months ago(the runners started reacting differently to the same strategies), so the way of filling the horn(which is practically invisible) might be one of them. Hope that helps. :-) @Mihaly: I'm glad you seem to understand the predicaments of getting a team together. I totally agree that it would be far better to be quick to get to the agility course when you can't get someone, and then just continue playing when you get a team together, instead of just standing around getting a team together to fill the horn completely in one go. I think it would be very easily possible to fill the horn in four and a half hours consistently with a good team, the five hours are just a very wide estimate because not all people will be able to get a pro team. I also think you are right in the waves 1-10(or rather 1-9, seeing as queen doesn't give as many points for the time spent) to be the fastest way to get the horn full. Many people have said things about other strategies, but they had no proof. Your option, in my experience, is the most efficient one. I should point out, though, that I only filled the horn three times for Agility, and then once more just to get it topped up if I ever needed it in the future. The average of filling it up came in at 258 minutes, which is just within the aforementioned four and a half hours. This is a very very very small experiment though(only three samples), and this was with a team that didn't quit before our horns were full, nor did we stand around even one second. It is also very strange that one time I am able to fill it in under four hours, and other times it would take over four and a half. I don't have the log of the round times anymore, but they were about the same if I recall correctly. Of course, if filling the horn is pointbased(thank you for being vague, Jagex), then this could be due to the healers or collectors doing a better job at raking those few extra points in. This would seem logical seeing as it sometimes takes 10 rounds and a bit, but mostly 11 and a half rounds to 12 rounds to fill the horn. Marco is actually a very good friend of mine, by the way. ;-) He was once a captain under me in our BA clan!

Well, I have played a hell load of BA and know a hell load of people who are very good at it. I have found it hard to fill the horn in less than four and a half hours, and almost impossible to do it consistently within four hours. You should remember that it takes a while to get a team together, and people lag out or have to leave in the middle and then you are stuck with noobs in world 6 because there are rarely ever replacements in the middle of a round. The only way to get the horn filled in under five hours(which is the point at which it would be just as efficient to do straight agility) is to play with decent teams all the time. It usually takes 11 or 12 rounds to fill it, which would come down at 26 minutes per round if you have five hours time and are dividing by 11.5 hours as an average time. Take into account that when I filled the horn in 224 minutes, we got lucky(yes that is a factor, runners and healers can run a bit) and we didn't stop for one second. This comes down to about 21 minute rounds, seeing as it was full at ten and a half rounds in. All these factors combined make the pure number-efficient side of this method highly doubtful. Theory is one thing, but practise is a whole other thing. It would be worth considering if you could do 24 minute rounds. I challenge you to play at least ten rounds in a row(and it will usually be eleven and a half) without going above that. You will see that it is almost impossible to be more efficient using the horn than when doing straight agility. That being said, you will be playing BA half the time and doing Agility half the time. Even if you were to break even at 5 hours to fill the horn, you would be less bored seeing as you are only running around the agility course half the time of what you normally would be. That was the major factor for me to use the horn; boredom. It's why using mini-games for skills is such a nice option. =]

Yes; penguins and the circus agility/magic performances are all worth doing :) (if you don't max magic entirely during other skills) And before someone mentions it. 101k agil is with ba horn based on 4 hours to fill the horn and the xp gained using the horn at 95-97 agility (because I can't find any figures on the xp it gives at higher levels) I emptied a Penance horn at 11.4M Agiility exp without interruption, and that gave me a total of 1,380,253 experience. It is possible that at level 99, it would give a total of 1.4M experience, but it is also possible that this is level independant, and thus it would give a total of 1.38M experience(the 253 experience would be the bit extra that you get from completing the course without the horning being able to provide that much experience, so it would provide part of the experience as double). It took a total of 224 minutes to fill, but that is with the best of the best on the team and no interruptions. In my years of playing BA, I have found that it is hard to play the ten to twelve rounds needed to completely fill the horn continuously. People tend to leave and come back, and it is hard to find friends who are good enough to provide this high rate if you haven't been playing for a long time and have "connections". On the other hand, the Barbarian course is right next door. So I guess you could play until someone has to leave and you can't find a replacement, then do Agility, and then go back to BA when you can assemble a decent team again. Again, you need the rare connections to play BA at an efficient rate for Agility. It is hard to find dedicated BA players if you are just getting started at playing BA, because it is a rather elitist group who don't easily accept outsiders. A long time ago(before the horn came out), it was more common to play round after round. These days people tend to play one or just a few rounds and then go do something else. I guess the best way to do it is just play BA whenever the opportunity arises to do it efficiently, seeing as it is right next to the Agility course anyway. Even if you can't use the horn all the time, it may be helpful to at least use it for part of your experience gains, seeing as it can only win time and not lose any(as long as you only do it when you have the chance to do it at maximum efficiency). So: not realistic to use the horn rate as a continuous experience rate, but it would boost your experience a bit from not using the horn at all if you did it the way I just suggested. Hope that helps. Could you perhaps answer my question of what the hourly experience rate of C2 Woodcutting is? Thank you in advance.

Would I be right to assume the experience rate of c2 fishing at around 130k/hr now? And how much is the rate for c2 woodcutting? I have been looking for figures for a while now, but can't find reliable sources.