Why anything doesn't go

[taleswapper]

I read the article on tip.it times and although I do agree with some of the article I also think there is a valid reason that honour codes have come about. I've written a fair bit and I hope it's not too obnoxious of me to post this as a seperate topic as opposed to posting on the discussion topic.

 

 

 

Also note this was written in bits and peices while I was at work so it may be a little "non-linear" :)

 

 

 

To me the motivation for PK'ing honour systems comes through a desire to increase the fun of PK'ing. Some of the things that make PK'ing fun are:

 

 

 

- The risk

 

- The chance of reward

 

- The challenge

 

 

 

The problem with RS comabt mechanics...

 

Unfortunately the game mechanics mean, particualrly at high levels, that the risk and corresponding chance for reward can easily be reduced. Here are some case studies:

 

 

 

In f2p it is extremely hard to kill a high level in rune if they are praying. Recently I was PK'ing f2p at the rune rocks and was attacked by around 6 other players they were a little lower level than me, but being thus outnumbered I decided to run. Despite the fact that I was bound, twice in multi, I managed to run/walk all the way from rune rocks to level 5 wildy where the highest of the group ceased being able to attack me (I was down to a single swordies). If I had of had teleports it would have been even easier.

 

 

 

In p2p you can PK reasonably effectively by 1-iteming, that is to say you use one expensive item (a ddp++ for example) and have nothing else of worth on you (say prayer robes a str ammy and an addy large, prayer book). Even if die you use the protect item spell to save this one (slighlty) valuable object. You can now even extend this with al almost full kit of items which you wont lose on death (as they are non tradable and you can pick them up before they dissappear after being killed). This kind of PK'ing has little risk, and reduces the challenge and reward for opponents.

 

 

 

In p2p if you are below level 30 you can teleport to saftey (glory/ring). Even above level 30 you can use various portals and levers. This basically renders more than 50% of the wilderness useless unless you teleblock. Requring teleblock means that pure range or melee is effectively useless for much of the wildy. It also means you can't use ancient magiks, by far the most powerful spells for PK'ing mages. On top of this even if you do have teleblock you need that teleblock to succeed before your opponent teleports, if they are praying mage protect and wearing a little d hide this can be quite difficult. Furthermore if your teleblock does succeed your opponent may immediately start running, the slight delay caused by the teleblock spell can quite possible be enough to let your opponent get so far ahead of you that your entangles don't work!

 

 

 

1v1 battles are effectively pointless if pray is involved, even with switching of attacks as a hybrid. If you want to ensure your opponent cant tele you are also ensuring your on weakenss (3 spots for TB runes, mystic/ahrims to allow your TB to be successful, inability to use powerful ancient spells, another 3 runes to tangle, another 3 runes if you want to do god spells, effectively half the food of your opponent).

 

 

 

The only consistent way for high level players to kill people is to PK as large teams. This means the challenge is reduced, the risk is reduced, and the reward is reduced (need to spread loot). Even if you run into other teams in mutlizones you still don't have much chance if they decide to run (sure you might kill a few of them, but once you spread that reward between your team it spretty low).

 

 

 

The honour system as a means to enhance the PK experience

 

 

 

The honour system was at least partly developed to redress these issues. Simple rules like:

 

 

 

Don't bring teleport runes, dont run from a clan/team battle, don't use protect pray 1v1;

 

 

 

in my opinion certainly have a positive impact on PK'ing. They increase the risk, they increase the reward and they increase the challenge. Thus they increase the fun.

 

 

 

Exactly where to draw these lines I'm not sure. Personally I have no problems with "safing", but be aware the less you safe the more likely you are to KO. I remember recently reading an achivement post by libum1 where he discusses his PK'ing, losing and winning many barrows sets. Certainly the impression I got from him was that by not safing he wins more sets.

 

 

 

As I mentioned this was pretty non-linear or should I say it's quite rambling, but I think I have made a vague point in there.

 

 

 

Self-enforcing honour

 

I would also like to add that I don't support the people who actually abuse others for breaking these rules. In my opinion they are self enforcing to a degree and it would be much more pleasant if they stayed (or went back to) that way. That is to say if you want to get in to (and stay in) the top high level clans then you will need to obey their rules. If you pray at the start of a fight expect your opponent to pray at the start of the fight and most of your battles to end with no result. If you carry teleports don't get frustrated when your opponents tele, etc.

 

 

 

Well that's enough rambling for me, have fun crushing my puny arguments ... if only they had a protect pray and teleports :o

[Michael]

Wilderness is a free for all, no sense of so called "honour" is there for the majority.

[deathhead154]

My stuff, my rules.

 

 

 

Usually, I'm in the wild skilling (rune mining etc.). If I do pk, it'll be in wizard robes. No def. My rules.

[p0nd3r4]

The problem with your supposed honour system, is that you can't try and force everyone to disadvantage themselves like you want them to.

 

 

 

I.E. your prayer 1v1 rule - why the [bleep] is prayer allowed in the wild if you're not meant to use it? If I've spent time getting 53 prayer, I'm going to use it because it increases my chances of pwning you. Don't like it? Use prayer too. Can't? Then you lose, and it's your own fault for not burying as many bones as I have.

[aoe325]

The problem with your supposed honour system, is that you can't try and force everyone to disadvantage themselves like you want them to.

 

 

 

I.E. your prayer 1v1 rule - why the [bleep] is prayer allowed in the wild if you're not meant to use it? If I've spent time getting 53 prayer, I'm going to use it because it increases my chances of pwning you. Don't like it? Use prayer too. Can't? Then you lose, and it's your own fault for not burying as many bones as I have.

 

 

 

A mod should copy paste that in the first post =D>

[Markup]

The problem with your supposed honour system, is that you can't try and force everyone to disadvantage themselves like you want them to.

 

 

 

I.E. your prayer 1v1 rule - why the [bleep] is prayer allowed in the wild if you're not meant to use it? If I've spent time getting 53 prayer, I'm going to use it because it increases my chances of pwning you. Don't like it? Use prayer too. Can't? Then you lose, and it's your own fault for not burying as many bones as I have.

 

 

 

Err...Signature

 

 

 

This honour system seems pretty decent, I stopped pking after I lost my whip to an ancienter and teleblocker team. But yeah it would be hard to enforce. Maybe it should be clan wars of honour in which if you didn't abide to the wars you get certain restrictions for breaking them.

 

 

 

But overall a nice idea.

 

 

 

~MAK

 

Devnull come back

[Yutahon]

I.E. your prayer 1v1 rule - why the [bleep] is prayer allowed in the wild if you're not meant to use it? If I've spent time getting 53 prayer, I'm going to use it because it increases my chances of pwning you. Don't like it? Use prayer too. Can't? Then you lose, and it's your own fault for not burying as many bones as I have.

 

 

 

Dont you see that your not increasing your chance when the other person can just use it too? It will even out and all it will do is slow down the fight and waste prayer points that could be used for 15% prayers.

[p0nd3r4]

I.E. your prayer 1v1 rule - why the [bleep] is prayer allowed in the wild if you're not meant to use it? If I've spent time getting 53 prayer, I'm going to use it because it increases my chances of pwning you. Don't like it? Use prayer too. Can't? Then you lose, and it's your own fault for not burying as many bones as I have.

 

 

 

Dont you see that your not increasing your chance when the other person can just use it too? It will even out and all it will do is slow down the fight and waste prayer points that could be used for 15% prayers.

 

 

 

Fairish point, but that's not why they call out 'noob' I'm sure. Many a time I've been PKing and called noob by paranoid idiots for using 15% prayers, even though I wasn't. Besides, nobody sticks to their own honor codes anyway. Every time I'm called a safer they have over half their health! If I don't use prayer my enemy probably is.

[taleswapper]

I.E. your prayer 1v1 rule - why the [bleep] is prayer allowed in the wild if you're not meant to use it? If I've spent time getting 53 prayer, I'm going to use it because it increases my chances of pwning you. Don't like it? Use prayer too. Can't? Then you lose, and it's your own fault for not burying as many bones as I have.

 

 

 

Dont you see that your not increasing your chance when the other person can just use it too? It will even out and all it will do is slow down the fight and waste prayer points that could be used for 15% prayers.

 

 

 

Fairish point, but that's not why they call out 'noob' I'm sure. Many a time I've been PKing and called noob by paranoid idiots for using 15% prayers, even though I wasn't. Besides, nobody sticks to their own honor codes anyway. Every time I'm called a safer they have over half their health! If I don't use prayer my enemy probably is.

 

 

 

Please at least read my post before commenting, I know it was a little bit long ;/

 

 

 

1. You ask the question: "why the [bleep] is prayer allowed in the wild if you're not meant to use it?" The several examples I list are there to suggest that the wilderness mechanics aren't so crash hot, its too easy to get away. An honour system provides an alternative to these which although it can't be strictly enforced can make PK'ing a little more exciting.

 

 

 

Yutahon was exactly right!

 

 

 

2. If you bothered to look at my stats you would see that I can use protect prayers and that in fact being a "hybrid" high melee (all melee stats well over 90) and high mage (99) that I would infact benefit by using protect prayers vs the standard melee (we both fight melee and pray melee, but i can throw in random spells for extra damage, if they switch pray my melee has more chance of hitting etc). The reality is though that in that situation unless we are in p2p high wildy (which is generally empty) my opponent can still escape because of the extra protection afforded by prayer. Sure if it was a fight to the death I would win, but no one seems to want to do that when they are clearly at a disadvantage!

 

 

 

Further to this you may have noticed that I was focusing on high level players, even at level 90+ you will find it rare that PKers wont have prayer because the 4 or so combat levels gained for getting 15% prayers is more effective per combat level gained than training more str/att. Once youy have 34 prayer it's only 1 (and a bit) combat levels to get all the protect prayers, so most will do this even if just to protect from pile jumpers. It's generally only duellers who stick at one prayer because they can explicitly turn prayer off (and maybe some f2p only pkers because they dont have pray pots) .

 

 

 

3. Regarding use of 15% prayers, I have never seen an honour code (or the rules of any PK'ing clan) suggest that these can't be used, and you may notice that I specfically listed no "protect prayers 1v1".

 

 

 

4. May I also point out that I explicitly said that I dont think abusing those who break the rules serves any purpose. But also note that you get called a noob for just about anything in RS, I was wearing addy armour (not PK'ing just wandering about) because I liked the look and was called noob many times. But I was called noob just as often for "wasting" money on 3rd age mage. I've been called noob for killing someone, for being killed, for having high levels, for having low levels, etc, etc. I'm sure many have experienced the same.

 

 

 

5. Finally note that the rules I listed werent meant to be "the" honour system. Just some examples of the rules that are most commonly chosen.

 

 

 

Sorry about delayed reply, I rarely use tip it forums and forgot to check back.

[Wachtwoord]

I totally agree with you. =D>